It leaves me very much wondering, though. Was any of this stuff taken from old material, or is this all something entirely new, spun out of whole cloth, and presented for the first time ever in the FRCG?
To me, there's something mildly fascinating about having this new, weird, exotic land that nobody's ever seen before and is home to races and cultures previously alien to Toril, but now as you explore, more and more of those familiar Faerunian elements are encroaching; you got the merchants coming to open up the trade, you've got religious types both benevolent and hostile setting in to do some hardcore proselytizing--with swords, if need be. This is one particular angle with it that I thought would work well with it from the FR-veteran's perspective.
Then there's the opposite--you could have your adventure about guys from Abeir itself, coming to Faerun and being introduced to all of the elements there from a new perspective. Re-introducing the Realms, so to speak.
I dunno. What're you guys' thoughts on what to do with the place?
Productively, anyway. There's enough places elsewhere here to complain about changes or new elements, I'd rather discuss actual game uses for this place, and what sort of directions the various elements might go.
It leaves me very much wondering, though. Was any of this stuff taken from old material, or is this all something entirely new, spun out of whole cloth, and presented for the first time ever in the FRCG?
Brandy new
What're you guys' thoughts on what to do with the place?
Productively, anyway. There's enough places elsewhere here to complain about changes or new elements, I'd rather discuss actual game uses for this place, and what sort of directions the various elements might go.
I liked this part of the book myself. Its here where I am very dissapointed in the apparent decision to do no more sourcebooks because I would have loved a Returned Abeir book myself
We do know that he wrote most of the Abeir section though.
Here are some thoughts I have about Returned Abeir and how to use it:
Returned Abeir suffers in that it isn't on the main poster map. There isn’t even a note with an arrow on the left/west side of the poster map to show in what direction it is west of the Trackless Sea.
It also is a place where organized worship of deities is a new thing. Elves and Eladrin are rarities there. These aren’t exactly conducive to gaming in returned Abeir (but they can be helped).
One positive of Returned Abeir is that there is no other lore about the place. No hint of links to Faerûn or the Forgotten Realms beyond events that happened an untold number of years ago. From one point of view, it’s ‘unpolluted’ by prior setting lore. So DMs are free to have at it.
Returned Abeir lends itself well to campaigns centered around transition and the conflict such will lead to.
DMs can run campaigns that focus on fledgling (player character) priests who try to build worship and the faith of certain aligned Realms deities in the lands of Returned Abeir. This can lead to all kinds of conflict with the established power groups that are naturally wary of the influence of organized faith.
It also can work well as the means to sprinkle in new foes and plots in regular Faerûnian based campaigns.
Faerûn is filled with countless graveyards and undead. Naturally the Eminence of Araunt will find its way to the mainland. Likewise agents of the many power groups and nations of Returned Abeir will be sent forth to Faerûn proper for trade and to learn about the new lands that surround Returned Abeir. (I wouldn’t be surprised if it was sailors from Lylorn who first discovered the Faerûnian mainland.)
Certainly the same can be said for Faerûn’s denizens. DMs can set up their characters as agents from Waterdeep, Baldur’s Gate and so on and have them set sail to Returned Abeir to learn as much as they can about the place. From that point a DM can basically decide what flavor of adventures he wants to run and then pick a Returned Abeir location to suit.
So what purpose does Returned Abeir serve? I think it serves to allow DMs to start with something new in the Realms. Or they can add something new to something old and mix it up for a good FR game.
What purpose does it serve? It seems everything there is already available in other parts of the Forgotten Realms.
Returned Abeir suffers in that it isn't on the main poster map. There isn’t even a note with an arrow on the left/west side of the poster map to show in what direction it is west of the Trackless Sea.
True. However, there are old maps of Toril that show Maztica which it replaced so you can sort of figure it out
It also is a place where organized worship of deities is a new thing. Elves and Eladrin are rarities there. These aren’t exactly conducive to gaming in returned Abeir (but they can be helped).
Why? A cleric or paladin of a "new" god might make for some interesting role play, same with elves
From one point of view, it’s ‘unpolluted’ by prior setting lore. So DMs are free to have at it.
I still say it would be a great Points of Light setting so I agree. Its actually a much better POL setting than Faerun is even after the overhaul
DMs can run campaigns that focus on fledgling (player character) priests who try to build worship and the faith of certain aligned Realms deities in the lands of Returned Abeir. This can lead to all kinds of conflict with the established power groups that are naturally wary of the influence of organized faith.
Right
Certainly the same can be said for Faerûn’s denizens. DMs can set up their characters as agents from Waterdeep, Baldur’s Gate and so on and have them set sail to Returned Abeir to learn as much as they can about the place. From that point a DM can basically decide what flavor of adventures he wants to run and then pick a Returned Abeir location to suit.
This would be a cool idea for a game. Perhaps Baldurs Gate or Waterdeep hires a charismatic PC as an ambassador of sorts and the more sneaky members of the party get the lowdown from the streets. Paladins look into religions etc etc
I've got sort of a notion now where; here's Returned Abeir, a new land utterly unexplored by any from Faerun, so what does everyone do? Get out there to exploit it!
Any power group you can name--The Zhentarim, the Red Wizards, the merchant princes of Amn, Baldur's Gate, and Waterdeep, the Five Companies, every ecclesiastical group from the Church of Bane to the paladins of Elturgard to the Cult of the Dragon (oh god are they in for it here), Netheril, even Bregan d'Aerthe are now sending out expeditions to see what can be made of this place.
The PCs? They can be their own entity, or they can work for any of the above groups; whatever's roleplayable, and just go, with all of Abeir laid out before them. Meetings and conflicts with the natives, just as with their own fellow explorers, are bound to happen, and with all powers pushing at one another, with a specific idea on the DM's part of exactly how these agendas play out WITHOUT the PCs interference (and then of course dumping them square in the middle of it and watching the ensuing madness), you could probably have a campaign that practically writes itself.
'course, you could even do that on a smaller scale with the other portions of Abeir that've popped up across Faerun proper, and still have it work the same way.
Well, the dragon rulers everywhere gets tedious, the fiend stuck in the volcano is dumb, and I hate the name for obvious reasons.
* Then again, it's a new setting that I can't judge in terms of the old.
Returned Abeir feels like it has all the culture and personality that was sucked out of Faerun.
I guess that's because Ed Greenwood wrote it. I didn't even know when I was reading it, I just got the impression. Greenwoodian names, themes, NPCs, city-states and kingdoms.
I like the Dawn Titans. They remind me of Conan's Crom, a brooding giant god who sits on his mountain throne and pays little attention to worship. They just leave people to find their own way in life.
I found that I liked Returned Abeir much better than the post-Spellplague Faerun. It's just feels like a more optimistic place, less miserably Points o' Light.
I also get this impression. I don't see Faerun itself as being "darker" now, per se, but it's the same conflicts, still tearing at each other, and we all know well enough by now the extent of the place's general turmoil. Maybe it's one of those "grass is greener" things, but if we're thinking it, I can well enough see native Faerunians having similar thoughts as they drift over, only to stumble squarely into the hornet's nests that're the Dragon Emperors, the Eminence of Araunt, a few massively ornery Dawn Titans, etc. D&D ensues.
On another note, I feel like an interesting task for the DM (at least one who likes games to be roleplay-heavy) is to decide on specifics regarding the cultural nuances of the civilizations here. The artwork looks to show it as generic-European-fantasy as anywhere else, but I kind of picture here there needs to be some sorta twist that gives the impression of having share perhaps a similar "proto-culture" of Faerun, but then evolving on it's own terms, creating something that feels exotic yet all strangely familiar to a visitor.
I found that I liked Returned Abeir much better than the post-Spellplague Faerun*.
I tend to agree with you. Some of it might stem from my disgust over the 4e Faerun, but I genuinely liked some of the stuff like the Dawn Titans, the Dragon emperors, the new nations, etc etc
I'd use it either on a different world or put it in one of the "Unknown Lands". I'd definitely wouldn't call it "Returned Abeir".
Agreed, the shape of Abeir doesn't sit well with me either, it also doesn't seem to be continent sized, its more like a very large island (scale: 1mm = 60 miles), so it measures 960 miles east to west and 900 miles north to south at is furthest extents.
Greenland by example measures about 997 miles east to west and about 1640 miles north to south (using goggle earth), and Austraila measures 2318 E to W and 2210 N to S
This would be a cool idea for a game. Perhaps Baldur’s Gate or Waterdeep hires a charismatic PC as an ambassador of sorts and the more sneaky members of the party get the lowdown from the streets. Paladins look into religions etc etc
Totally.
I don't know if this sort of thing would cater to the types of players that know the Realms well or who have played it in a lot already, but I'm guessing it would.
This is one way the player characters would get to bring the Realms to Returned Abeir. DMs who have lore-smart players can jumpstart many a roleplaying moment by having an NPC as a PC, "So tell me more of this Waterdeep you come from. Is it really the true the moneyed people of that city dress in gowns made of naught but gems, and go about tossing naked gnomes into large punch bowls as a form of revelry?"
Once the wise-in-the-ways of Waterdeep player gives his or her answer, then the NPC who asked the question can tell the PC what the rich people of the NPC’s native land do that could be considered unique or interesting (which, despite what some around here would describe as a burden, is really why DMs flock to the Realms for --so they can make stuff up).
I think it would be fun for the community to fill in the details of Gontal over on the Running the Realms forum. That place got like zero attention in the Returned Abeir section. Ripe for the taking, if you ask me.
which, despite what some around here would describe as a burden, is really why DMs flock to the Realms for --so they can make stuff up).
Couldn't be said better.
Ripe for the taking, if you ask me.
It all is.
There's a certain sense of childish delight in being given a place that outright screams, "I am your sandbox." The fun comes when the ideas flow in from unexpected places--which I'd count this forum as, for sure, given the propensity here for unbridled hatred of all things new.
which I'd count this forum as, for sure, given the propensity here for unbridled hatred of all things new.
Nothing wrong with that, new doesn't always mean good.
(which, despite what some around here would describe as a burden, is really why DMs flock to the Realms for --so they can make stuff up).
I sense an edition flame war and its all his fault :D
And everyone says its the 4e bashers' who start these things
I noted something odd to me. on page 200 of the FRCG it states that the rule of dragons was relatively unchallenged until the blue breath of change stirred up small quantities of dragonbane amber. What is dragonbane amber and where is its description? Not to mention that collection of it for sale would be another good reason to bring in characters from outside.
They may have it in PG. But the text says that they used most of it up during the rebellion, so it is going to be very rare, especially since they local non-dragon and dragon rulers would be eager to get what was left. Either to fight off draconic incursions in the case of non-dragons, and to keep it from being used against them or to use against rivals by dragons. In fact that might be a good source, a dragon ruler has collected quite a bit, and offers a deal to merchants from Faerun, the merchants take it far away, and get it at a premium.
I sense an edition flame war and its all his fault :D And everyone says its the 4e bashers' who start these things
You are right. That could have potentially started something.
I apologize. :embarrass
There's a certain sense of childish delight in being given a place that outright screams, "I am your sandbox."
ZOMG totally x1000!!!
:D
Yeah, I plan on posting open-call threads on the Running the Realms Forum for lore ideas and adventure ideas in Returned Abeir.
It's just too good to pass up.
You are right. That could have potentially started something.
I apologize.
:embarrass
See, we can all get along...
Nothing wrong with that, new doesn't always mean good.
It doesn't always mean "bad", either.
I also get this impression. I don't see Faerun itself as being "darker" now, per se, but it's the same conflicts, still tearing at each other, and we all know well enough by now the extent of the place's general turmoil.
I don't own the FRCG, but I did get a chance to look through it, and I did get the impression that the designers actively tried to make the world "darker".
Agreed, the shape of Abeir doesn't sit well with me either, it also doesn't seem to be continent sized, its more like a very large island (scale: 1mm = 60 miles), so it measures 960 miles east to west and 900 miles north to south at is furthest extents.
Greenland by example measures about 997 miles east to west and about 1640 miles north to south (using goggle earth), and Austraila measures 2318 E to W and 2210 N to S
Yes, I agree, it is a very small continent. Although look at it this way--that makes it easier to squeeze in somewhere else (if that's what's desired, of course).
The fun comes when the ideas flow in from unexpected places--which I'd count this forum as, for sure, given the propensity here for unbridled hatred of all things new.
Was that really necessary?
In the modified 4E game I'm running, my first campaign will be set in RA using the general idea that others are putting forward here (and here I thought I was original!): Missionaries in Abeir. The PCs will be agents of various churches who are attempting to spread worship; there's openings for priests of evil and of good deities even to work together to bring worship to this godless land; there's the mystery of where the souls of the dead from Abeir go when they die to unravel; and since RA text mentions but does not detail the idea the extent of trade with Faerun proper, there's openings for the Zhentarim and other organizations from Faerun therein. There're slaves to free and dragons to fight, too! It lets you run an entire campaign in the world of Faerun while at the same time, if you're the sort to do so, allow you to "wait" to alter elements of 4E Realmslore until after more novels or other sources come out and you see what they do to Faerun in detail.
So, I think that's what you do with RA, and I think it's pretty neat, too.
Was that really necessary?
Hey, lighten up, lady!
Hey, lighten up, lady!
Well, I can take a joke, but it didn't seem to me like you were joking. People have made comments like yours in earnestness, even if you didn't really mean what you said.
I should point out to those discussing the concept that the 4E FRCS doesn't provide anything useful to fans of 3.5 who don't want to include the new stuff in their games that it would be dirt simple to put RA into the existing 3.5 world (as others have mentioned) simply by renaming it and sticking it on some other continent. I think others've mentioned this, but let's face it, it's new Greenwood content that doesn't conflict with anything else.
-Why this wasn't done in the first place, I don't know. I can guarantee that if all of the weird 'Abeir' stuff was changed such that anything that is now 'Abeir' was actually, say, Katashaka, or Anchorome, that half of the people who dislike it would like it. Or, at the very least, vociferously dislike it less. I know, personally speaking, I don't dislike the actual people/places of 'Abeir', but I do dislike the retconning and weird stories that were weaved in order to "make it" to begin with.
Hey, lighten up, lady!
-Hey, you watch it, there!
I don't own the FRCG, but I did get a chance to look through it, and I did get the impression that the designers actively tried to make the world "darker".
That was exactly my reaction when they released FRCS for 3e. Netheril, Red Wizard Enclaves, Shadow Magic, and Fzoul (and the church of Bane) in charge of the Zhenterim. Evil started to feel more competent in 3e than it had prior to then.
For example, look at one of the Dusk Ports outside of Tarmalune; a total anarchy held up by trade alone, yet by all accounts an extremely peaceful and pleasant place thanks to the constant vigilance of the adventurers who take it upon themselves to act as guards.
It all seems natural, actually, when you put that up against the fact that they have no gods to call upon; the only powers being the taciturn and reclusive Dawn Titans, and the dragons, which are strong but through strength, grit, and resourcefulness have largely been cast down, that's a perfect breeding ground for independent, self-reliant people.
Granted; many a frontier-nation in Faerun could be said the same of, but less so in 4e. That could be what makes Abeir suddenly seem so much more optimistic.
You are right. That could have potentially started something.
I apologize. :embarrass
No need to apologize. You know me, I enjoy a good word-brawl