What was the curse of the Drow? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

What was the curse of the Drow?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
carbon_dragon
Jul 04, 2009 20:19:11 Ok, so I know the story of the casting out to the underdark of the Drow. But what exactly was the curse? Why did they go, what was the expression of the curse. Was it physical (aversion ot light) or psychological (psychically forced to go to the underdark)? As I understand it in the Lady Penitant series, the Drow are effectly redeemed which is why they're are viable player characters and why they're showing up on the surface in significant numbers. Does that mean that it was a physical curse and that it was lifted. I didn't read the series.
#2
omniblackchaos
Jul 04, 2009 21:49:40 Ok here is my summery of the drow curse.

The dark elves under the influence of Lolth were becoming more aggressive and power hungry. Lolth set it up that they would summon her bolar (I forget his name). Some of the dark elves had their blood tainted by this bolar and along with the high magic of the other elves they got tossed to the underdark. The curse changed their skin and also gave them ties with the frezzurs (I dont know how to spell it off the top of my head). Now these frezzurs had a complusion effect on the drow to keep them in the underdark. Also it gave them their spell resistance, darkvision, and spell like abilities most likely as a side effect. Not to mention their skin color as a mark of the curse.

High magic was used to cure the none tainted drow and restore them to dark elves. When they were restored they lost their skin color, complusion, spell like abilities, darkvision, and spell resistance. The taint of that bolar was what tied them to Lolth and their evil nature along with the curse. The high magic only cured the non tainted drow. At the end of the books it also shows that all dark elves belong to The elf father so Lolth has had her greatest lost right when most all the drow gods were killed and around 50% maybe less or more of all drow were turned back to dark elves and lost to her.

If I missed anything or am wrong please feel free to correct me as I have not read the books in a while.
#3
zanan
Jul 05, 2009 4:23:38
Ok, so I know the story of the casting out to the underdark of the Drow. But what exactly was the curse? Why did they go, what was the expression of the curse. Was it physical (aversion ot light) or psychological (psychically forced to go to the underdark)? As I understand it in the Lady Penitant series, the Drow are effectly redeemed which is why they're are viable player characters and why they're showing up on the surface in significant numbers. Does that mean that it was a physical curse and that it was lifted. I didn't read the series.

This is a complex thing. Essentially, the dark elves pre-Descent were just dark skinned elves ("dusky" is the official word), as of TGHotR a branch of "green elves". They settled in Miyeritar as well as Ilythiir (and possibly some other, not that well known realms).
The sun elves of Aryvandaar (i.e. the High Forest) as well as the Ilythiiri had the same conquering outline to their politics. While the Ilythiiri were probably the more ferocious (viewing most other races as potential subordinates or slaves), the Aryvandaans were the more violent. For it was them who killed thousands of elves (et al) duing the Sundering (the event that created Evermeet) as well as spell-destroyed Miyeritar (High Moor now) when said realm did not obey to their will. As of the Lady Penitent series, Aryvandaar also brought defeat near the doorsteps of the Ilythiiri, only for them to turn to darker powers for assistance. It was then that the dark elves turned to Lolth for help, help that arrived in the form of the unique balor (sic!) Wendonai. With him, dark magic and powers were brought into the dark elven repertoire, causing the tide to turn into the dark elves' favour again. This in turn caused all those "goodly" elves (including the destroyers of Miyeritar) to turn upon the Ilythiiri and use another High Magic ritual to destroy the dark elves. Much like Evermeet and Miyeritar, it got out of hand again and all dark elves, not just the Ilythiiri were forced to leave the surface: the ritual linked them to the Underdark's radiation faerzress (sic!) which drew them underground. It also "darkened their skin" to mirror their dark souls (whether you take that on face value is up to you). Thousands of dark elves died during the first few decades below the ground and hence their hatred of all elves up to this day is very understandable. As is their clinging to Lolth & Co., as they provided where the Seldarine failed ... down there at least.
The ritual to unbound the curse - on face value again - "simply" broke the link to faerzress for some drow, i.e. those who were "not-evil (a.k.a. "tainted")", "not Ilythiiri" or "who were worshippers of Eilistraee" at the time of casting this unbinding. We will leave any discussion about "intelligent" magic aside here, of course. Nothing is said about e.g. good or neutral ex. Ilythiiri. These drow were turned into the state of the old dark elves, this time (retcon alert) into brown-skinned elves who lost all their drow abilities. Nothing has been writte nabout them in 4E sources as yet, though the novel Blackstaff tells us about the return of one pre-Descent dark elven city in the High Moor, which went into hiding on a nother plane (et al) before the Dark Disaster befell Miyeritar. It is likely that most brown (i.e. redeemed") dark elves can be found there now.
#4
carbon_dragon
Jul 05, 2009 8:43:24 Thank you both, that was very useful. Ok, so the 4e drow in Players Handbook 2. Which are those? Are they drow (a la Drizzt) or are then returned dark elves? I note that in the players handbook, there is no sensitivity to light or anything like that.

Another thing -- if only the good drow were transformed back into dark elves, and if the drow are compelled in some physical or psychic way to reside in the underdark, how are the evil drow contingent living near the Myth Drannor area or are they no longer doing that? In short what keeps an "evil" Lolth worshipping Drow from living on the surface, if anything? Is it just being attacked by other elves?

As you may know my characters are still living in the 3e timeline and I'm working on transitions to the new timeline so I need to understand the timeline of the drow because I want to use them to build an adventure around to do that transition. I already had in mind them being instrumental in saving the non evil drow but WotC beat me to it so I'd like to understand what happened so I can weave the story together.
#5
lord_karsus
Jul 05, 2009 23:47:04 -See Elves of Faerûn, in which various articles and essays pertaining to Drow, the Crown Wars, and the actual event itself discuss what "went down".
#6
zanan
Jul 06, 2009 5:31:34
Thank you both, that was very useful. Ok, so the 4e drow in Players Handbook 2. Which are those? Are they drow (a la Drizzt) or are then returned dark elves? I note that in the players handbook, there is no sensitivity to light or anything like that.

Have not seen that book, but the original drow (like those of the Monster Manual) are described as a "player race" in the Forgotten Realms' Players Guide. Obviously, a massive blunder was made here since all the goodies they get and all the descriptions they have are those of the MM version, i.e. wicked and mean creatures out to cause trouble. No word is being given how the surfacers - who hate the drow ever since they showed their dark skins up there - would react to a drow walking in an adventurer group. The gamers' "fun" rules the setting.
Anyway, as has been said, the dark elves (i.e. "redeemed drow") would be normal elves with dusky/brown skin colour. No word has been said about their abilities as yet, but I would assume that they are either wild or moon elves.

Another thing -- if only the good drow were transformed back into dark elves, and if the drow are compelled in some physical or psychic way to reside in the underdark, how are the evil drow contingent living near the Myth Drannor area or are they no longer doing that? In short what keeps an "evil" Lolth worshipping Drow from living on the surface, if anything? Is it just being attacked by other elves?

Nothing. In AD&D, they lost much of their equipment (if it was drow-made / faerzress-bathed), in 3E they suffered some minor penalties in bright (!) daylight. They could have walked the surface with no problem at all and did so. The point is that e.g. Lolth's dogma says that they first have to conquer the Underdark before turning unto the surface. And the Underdark is no place that you can easily conquer. It has been said from the earliest editions that if the drow turn away from their internal conflicts et al and unite, the surface would be in dire peril, as they command vile magic and dark powers that could cause havoc all over the world of Faerûn at once - since the church of Lolth may act upon a call from the Spider Queen at a specific time. Neat horror scenario (and I assume it will raise another "but there are umpteen archmages who would oppose that" etc. debates).
Drow can sneak up from the surface all over Faerûn for various reasons and have done so time and again during the Realms' history.

As you may know my characters are still living in the 3e timeline and I'm working on transitions to the new timeline so I need to understand the timeline of the drow because I want to use them to build an adventure around to do that transition. I already had in mind them being instrumental in saving the non evil drow but WotC beat me to it so I'd like to understand what happened so I can weave the story together.

Make sure you don't turn a drow into a dark elf and the drow player does not want that. By default, s/he'd loose nigh all drow powers and abilities, starting with simple things like darkvision. In any case, it shouldn't be that difficult if you've read Lady Penitent III.
#7
carbon_dragon
Jul 06, 2009 13:16:17 None of the players who might play this adventure are drow. I once played with a friend of mine who played a drow called Landis Bree (mage) and he had a LOT of fun with his character. I ran that group through the Temple of Elemental Evil and he would have been upset if he lost his special drow power. He even liked the role-playing aspects of being sensitive to light (dark cloaks and the mysterious like).

I would just like to find a good way of transitioning the players to the new timeline and the Drow might be a way to do that ... maybe. I'm also toying with Myth Drannor as a possible adventure hook. I'd like to have the characters do something that contributed to the advance of the 4th ed story line.
#8
omniblackchaos
Jul 06, 2009 22:46:37 About being compelled to stay in the underdark thats just what it is a compulsion. In the novels only when the negative energy matter was messing with the faerzress and making them more powerful were drow finding themselves drawn more and more to the underdark as well as having some of their magic and powers effected. The drow on the surface have learned to ignore and disregard this compulsion just like they have learned to get used to the daylight and not be blinded by it. Also it could be said that some drow have the protection of their god or magic to block out this effect.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 carbon_dragon Jul 04, 2009 20:19:11	Ok, so I know the story of the casting out to the underdark of the Drow. But what exactly was the curse? Why did they go, what was the expression of the curse. Was it physical (aversion ot light) or psychological (psychically forced to go to the underdark)? As I understand it in the Lady Penitant series, the Drow are effectly redeemed which is why they're are viable player characters and why they're showing up on the surface in significant numbers. Does that mean that it was a physical curse and that it was lifted. I didn't read the series.
#2 omniblackchaos Jul 04, 2009 21:49:40	Ok here is my summery of the drow curse. The dark elves under the influence of Lolth were becoming more aggressive and power hungry. Lolth set it up that they would summon her bolar (I forget his name). Some of the dark elves had their blood tainted by this bolar and along with the high magic of the other elves they got tossed to the underdark. The curse changed their skin and also gave them ties with the frezzurs (I dont know how to spell it off the top of my head). Now these frezzurs had a complusion effect on the drow to keep them in the underdark. Also it gave them their spell resistance, darkvision, and spell like abilities most likely as a side effect. Not to mention their skin color as a mark of the curse. High magic was used to cure the none tainted drow and restore them to dark elves. When they were restored they lost their skin color, complusion, spell like abilities, darkvision, and spell resistance. The taint of that bolar was what tied them to Lolth and their evil nature along with the curse. The high magic only cured the non tainted drow. At the end of the books it also shows that all dark elves belong to The elf father so Lolth has had her greatest lost right when most all the drow gods were killed and around 50% maybe less or more of all drow were turned back to dark elves and lost to her. If I missed anything or am wrong please feel free to correct me as I have not read the books in a while.
#3 zanan Jul 05, 2009 4:23:38	Ok, so I know the story of the casting out to the underdark of the Drow. But what exactly was the curse? Why did they go, what was the expression of the curse. Was it physical (aversion ot light) or psychological (psychically forced to go to the underdark)? As I understand it in the Lady Penitant series, the Drow are effectly redeemed which is why they're are viable player characters and why they're showing up on the surface in significant numbers. Does that mean that it was a physical curse and that it was lifted. I didn't read the series. This is a complex thing. Essentially, the dark elves pre-Descent were just dark skinned elves ("dusky" is the official word), as of TGHotR a branch of "green elves". They settled in Miyeritar as well as Ilythiir (and possibly some other, not that well known realms). The sun elves of Aryvandaar (i.e. the High Forest) as well as the Ilythiiri had the same conquering outline to their politics. While the Ilythiiri were probably the more ferocious (viewing most other races as potential subordinates or slaves), the Aryvandaans were the more violent. For it was them who killed thousands of elves (et al) duing the Sundering (the event that created Evermeet) as well as spell-destroyed Miyeritar (High Moor now) when said realm did not obey to their will. As of the Lady Penitent series, Aryvandaar also brought defeat near the doorsteps of the Ilythiiri, only for them to turn to darker powers for assistance. It was then that the dark elves turned to Lolth for help, help that arrived in the form of the unique balor (sic!) Wendonai. With him, dark magic and powers were brought into the dark elven repertoire, causing the tide to turn into the dark elves' favour again. This in turn caused all those "goodly" elves (including the destroyers of Miyeritar) to turn upon the Ilythiiri and use another High Magic ritual to destroy the dark elves. Much like Evermeet and Miyeritar, it got out of hand again and all dark elves, not just the Ilythiiri were forced to leave the surface: the ritual linked them to the Underdark's radiation faerzress (sic!) which drew them underground. It also "darkened their skin" to mirror their dark souls (whether you take that on face value is up to you). Thousands of dark elves died during the first few decades below the ground and hence their hatred of all elves up to this day is very understandable. As is their clinging to Lolth & Co., as they provided where the Seldarine failed ... down there at least. The ritual to unbound the curse - on face value again - "simply" broke the link to faerzress for some drow, i.e. those who were "not-evil (a.k.a. "tainted")", "not Ilythiiri" or "who were worshippers of Eilistraee" at the time of casting this unbinding. We will leave any discussion about "intelligent" magic aside here, of course. Nothing is said about e.g. good or neutral ex. Ilythiiri. These drow were turned into the state of the old dark elves, this time (retcon alert) into brown-skinned elves who lost all their drow abilities. Nothing has been writte nabout them in 4E sources as yet, though the novel Blackstaff tells us about the return of one pre-Descent dark elven city in the High Moor, which went into hiding on a nother plane (et al) before the Dark Disaster befell Miyeritar. It is likely that most brown (i.e. redeemed") dark elves can be found there now.
#4 carbon_dragon Jul 05, 2009 8:43:24	Thank you both, that was very useful. Ok, so the 4e drow in Players Handbook 2. Which are those? Are they drow (a la Drizzt) or are then returned dark elves? I note that in the players handbook, there is no sensitivity to light or anything like that. Another thing -- if only the good drow were transformed back into dark elves, and if the drow are compelled in some physical or psychic way to reside in the underdark, how are the evil drow contingent living near the Myth Drannor area or are they no longer doing that? In short what keeps an "evil" Lolth worshipping Drow from living on the surface, if anything? Is it just being attacked by other elves? As you may know my characters are still living in the 3e timeline and I'm working on transitions to the new timeline so I need to understand the timeline of the drow because I want to use them to build an adventure around to do that transition. I already had in mind them being instrumental in saving the non evil drow but WotC beat me to it so I'd like to understand what happened so I can weave the story together.
#5 lord_karsus Jul 05, 2009 23:47:04	-See Elves of Faerûn, in which various articles and essays pertaining to Drow, the Crown Wars, and the actual event itself discuss what "went down".
#6 zanan Jul 06, 2009 5:31:34	Thank you both, that was very useful. Ok, so the 4e drow in Players Handbook 2. Which are those? Are they drow (a la Drizzt) or are then returned dark elves? I note that in the players handbook, there is no sensitivity to light or anything like that. Have not seen that book, but the original drow (like those of the Monster Manual) are described as a "player race" in the Forgotten Realms' Players Guide. Obviously, a massive blunder was made here since all the goodies they get and all the descriptions they have are those of the MM version, i.e. wicked and mean creatures out to cause trouble. No word is being given how the surfacers - who hate the drow ever since they showed their dark skins up there - would react to a drow walking in an adventurer group. The gamers' "fun" rules the setting. Anyway, as has been said, the dark elves (i.e. "redeemed drow") would be normal elves with dusky/brown skin colour. No word has been said about their abilities as yet, but I would assume that they are either wild or moon elves. Another thing -- if only the good drow were transformed back into dark elves, and if the drow are compelled in some physical or psychic way to reside in the underdark, how are the evil drow contingent living near the Myth Drannor area or are they no longer doing that? In short what keeps an "evil" Lolth worshipping Drow from living on the surface, if anything? Is it just being attacked by other elves? Nothing. In AD&D, they lost much of their equipment (if it was drow-made / faerzress-bathed), in 3E they suffered some minor penalties in bright (!) daylight. They could have walked the surface with no problem at all and did so. The point is that e.g. Lolth's dogma says that they first have to conquer the Underdark before turning unto the surface. And the Underdark is no place that you can easily conquer. It has been said from the earliest editions that if the drow turn away from their internal conflicts et al and unite, the surface would be in dire peril, as they command vile magic and dark powers that could cause havoc all over the world of Faerûn at once - since the church of Lolth may act upon a call from the Spider Queen at a specific time. Neat horror scenario (and I assume it will raise another "but there are umpteen archmages who would oppose that" etc. debates). Drow can sneak up from the surface all over Faerûn for various reasons and have done so time and again during the Realms' history. As you may know my characters are still living in the 3e timeline and I'm working on transitions to the new timeline so I need to understand the timeline of the drow because I want to use them to build an adventure around to do that transition. I already had in mind them being instrumental in saving the non evil drow but WotC beat me to it so I'd like to understand what happened so I can weave the story together. Make sure you don't turn a drow into a dark elf and the drow player does not want that. By default, s/he'd loose nigh all drow powers and abilities, starting with simple things like darkvision. In any case, it shouldn't be that difficult if you've read Lady Penitent III.
#7 carbon_dragon Jul 06, 2009 13:16:17	None of the players who might play this adventure are drow. I once played with a friend of mine who played a drow called Landis Bree (mage) and he had a LOT of fun with his character. I ran that group through the Temple of Elemental Evil and he would have been upset if he lost his special drow power. He even liked the role-playing aspects of being sensitive to light (dark cloaks and the mysterious like). I would just like to find a good way of transitioning the players to the new timeline and the Drow might be a way to do that ... maybe. I'm also toying with Myth Drannor as a possible adventure hook. I'd like to have the characters do something that contributed to the advance of the 4th ed story line.
#8 omniblackchaos Jul 06, 2009 22:46:37	About being compelled to stay in the underdark thats just what it is a compulsion. In the novels only when the negative energy matter was messing with the faerzress and making them more powerful were drow finding themselves drawn more and more to the underdark as well as having some of their magic and powers effected. The drow on the surface have learned to ignore and disregard this compulsion just like they have learned to get used to the daylight and not be blinded by it. Also it could be said that some drow have the protection of their god or magic to block out this effect.