Who Else Besides Karsus... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Who Else Besides Karsus...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Mr_Miscellany
May 24, 2011 16:47:47 ...has attempted to gain, steal or manipulate divinity through spellcasting in the Realms?

Just wondering.
#2
Stigger
May 24, 2011 18:37:35 Depends I guess... on whether you include the apotheosis of folks like Azuth, Savras, Velsharoon, Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul, though those last three are questionable since we're not really sure what classes they were in life. If you mean stealing it violently or solely by means of a spell, then I'd say that Karsus was probably unique in that sense. If you're just talking about using spells and spellcraft to forge a path to divinity, the list is probably pretty large, comparatively, most probably being relatively obscure and unknown.
#3
pruano
May 25, 2011 6:45:17 The most obvious response i can think of is Szass Tam.
#4
Mr_Miscellany
May 25, 2011 10:45:31 Thank you both!

Does anyone remember the name of the Red Wizard Elminster was sent to deal with (by Ao) during the Time of Troubles? I seem to recall this wizard was bent on stealing the godhead of at least two deities as they were descending to Faerûn, after they were cast out by Ao.
#5
Mr_Miscellany
May 25, 2011 11:20:41
Depends I guess... on whether you include the apotheosis of folks like Azuth, Savras, [snip]

I think Savras woould fit the bill.

Azuth I wonder about though. He earned his way to divinity by twice casting spells that—whatever else they may have done—altered the way the Weave itself functioned.

What I'm not sure about is whether his second spell was of the "Give Me Divinity" type (ala Karsus), or rather one that was so just so awesome that Mystra (with Ao's approval) elevated him to divinity as a reward.

#6
Andrekan
May 26, 2011 11:26:19 Zhengyi the Witch-King in Vaasa used Demons to build Castle Perilous. This was going to be used by his Lord Orcus to gain access to divinity in the Realms and control the Domain of Necromancy. Gareth Dragonsbane who was later crowned King of Damara stopped this in a war, slaying Zhengyi and is also believed to have slain Orcus banding him from the Realms for 100 years? Possible Source in 1988 H4 The Throne of Bloodstone Level 18-100 Mod which was the conclusion of Bloodstone Pass Saga Mod. This took place c. 1359 DR by the 3rd Edition FRCG. Thus it could be possible 1460 DR Orcus could try it again while everthing is up for grab among the Pantheons in the Realms. Szass Tam and the Netherese are searching for... Spoilers around Neverwinter. Gotta love the Realms...
#7
eldiablo
Sep 19, 2011 19:58:23 If You Count Games.
In Baldur's Gate II Jon Irenicus Tries to become a god By draining Some divine elven Tree called the Tree of Life with magic (He tries it twice in fact)
And in the Expansion Throne of Bhaal A former Bhaalist priestess called Mallisan tries to Take all of the Remanants of Power Bhaal Sew in his childeren for herself to Accend.
#8
steelwind
Sep 24, 2011 4:23:32
Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul, though those last three are questionable since we're not really sure what classes they were in life.

Now I could be remembering this wrongly, but I almost swear I remember reading a supplement that actually discussed this (most likely in the plethora of 2E Realms supplements) when it talks about these three gaining their divinity from Jergal. IIRC Bane was a Human Fighter, Bhaal was a Human Thief, and Myrkul was a Human Necromancer specialist wizard.
#9
Stigger
Sep 24, 2011 7:57:03 Heh, weird... that memory was there for me as well, but as I couldn't find the reference in the library, I thought I was imagining it.
#10
sfdragon
Sep 24, 2011 14:42:27 Lords ladies and gents
I think we can add

[spoilers] Larloch [/spoilers]
#11
Iluvrien
Oct 09, 2011 10:15:40
Heh, weird... that memory was there for me as well, but as I couldn't find the reference in the library, I thought I was imagining it.

My brain poked me about this one too. The only reference I have found so far is the book "History of the Dead Three: Knucklebones, skull bowling and the empty throne" that is a game-item in the Baldur's Gate games.

Maybe someone else can find a more concrete reference.
#12
Stigger
Oct 10, 2011 11:48:30
There's references in 2e's Faiths and Avatars about it iirc, though I haven't looked at it in quite a while. Could be in there, but I can't say I'm really up for digging through old books at the moment.
#13
Chiba_Monkey
Nov 18, 2011 0:20:37 If you ran the 3.5 Adventure Path "Age of Worms" in Forgotten Realms (there was a conversion pack), you could include Kyuss, who attempted to become a god, and instead became a demigod trapped in his own monolith.

Kyuss is currently refered to as one of the "Elder Evils"
#14
Mr_Miscellany
Nov 18, 2011 10:23:29 Thankee all.
#15
creyzi4zb12
Dec 29, 2011 9:58:37
Lords ladies and gents
I think we can add

[spoilers] Larloch [/spoilers]

I remember Larloch mentioning something about him not wanting to be a god, or never attempting to become one.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Mr_Miscellany May 24, 2011 16:47:47	...has attempted to gain, steal or manipulate divinity through spellcasting in the Realms? Just wondering.
#2 Stigger May 24, 2011 18:37:35	Depends I guess... on whether you include the apotheosis of folks like Azuth, Savras, Velsharoon, Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul, though those last three are questionable since we're not really sure what classes they were in life. If you mean stealing it violently or solely by means of a spell, then I'd say that Karsus was probably unique in that sense. If you're just talking about using spells and spellcraft to forge a path to divinity, the list is probably pretty large, comparatively, most probably being relatively obscure and unknown.
#3 pruano May 25, 2011 6:45:17	The most obvious response i can think of is Szass Tam.
#4 Mr_Miscellany May 25, 2011 10:45:31	Thank you both! Does anyone remember the name of the Red Wizard Elminster was sent to deal with (by Ao) during the Time of Troubles? I seem to recall this wizard was bent on stealing the godhead of at least two deities as they were descending to Faerûn, after they were cast out by Ao.
#5 Mr_Miscellany May 25, 2011 11:20:41	Depends I guess... on whether you include the apotheosis of folks like Azuth, Savras, [snip] I think Savras woould fit the bill. Azuth I wonder about though. He earned his way to divinity by twice casting spells that—whatever else they may have done—altered the way the Weave itself functioned. What I'm not sure about is whether his second spell was of the "Give Me Divinity" type (ala Karsus), or rather one that was so just so awesome that Mystra (with Ao's approval) elevated him to divinity as a reward.
#6 Andrekan May 26, 2011 11:26:19	Zhengyi the Witch-King in Vaasa used Demons to build Castle Perilous. This was going to be used by his Lord Orcus to gain access to divinity in the Realms and control the Domain of Necromancy. Gareth Dragonsbane who was later crowned King of Damara stopped this in a war, slaying Zhengyi and is also believed to have slain Orcus banding him from the Realms for 100 years? Possible Source in 1988 H4 The Throne of Bloodstone Level 18-100 Mod which was the conclusion of Bloodstone Pass Saga Mod. This took place c. 1359 DR by the 3rd Edition FRCG. Thus it could be possible 1460 DR Orcus could try it again while everthing is up for grab among the Pantheons in the Realms. Szass Tam and the Netherese are searching for... Spoilers around Neverwinter. Gotta love the Realms...
#7 eldiablo Sep 19, 2011 19:58:23	If You Count Games. In Baldur's Gate II Jon Irenicus Tries to become a god By draining Some divine elven Tree called the Tree of Life with magic (He tries it twice in fact) And in the Expansion Throne of Bhaal A former Bhaalist priestess called Mallisan tries to Take all of the Remanants of Power Bhaal Sew in his childeren for herself to Accend.
#8 steelwind Sep 24, 2011 4:23:32	Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul, though those last three are questionable since we're not really sure what classes they were in life. Now I could be remembering this wrongly, but I almost swear I remember reading a supplement that actually discussed this (most likely in the plethora of 2E Realms supplements) when it talks about these three gaining their divinity from Jergal. IIRC Bane was a Human Fighter, Bhaal was a Human Thief, and Myrkul was a Human Necromancer specialist wizard.
#9 Stigger Sep 24, 2011 7:57:03	Heh, weird... that memory was there for me as well, but as I couldn't find the reference in the library, I thought I was imagining it.
#10 sfdragon Sep 24, 2011 14:42:27	Lords ladies and gents I think we can add [spoilers] Larloch [/spoilers]
#11 Iluvrien Oct 09, 2011 10:15:40	Heh, weird... that memory was there for me as well, but as I couldn't find the reference in the library, I thought I was imagining it. My brain poked me about this one too. The only reference I have found so far is the book "History of the Dead Three: Knucklebones, skull bowling and the empty throne" that is a game-item in the Baldur's Gate games. Maybe someone else can find a more concrete reference.
#12 Stigger Oct 10, 2011 11:48:30	There's references in 2e's Faiths and Avatars about it iirc, though I haven't looked at it in quite a while. Could be in there, but I can't say I'm really up for digging through old books at the moment.
#13 Chiba_Monkey Nov 18, 2011 0:20:37	If you ran the 3.5 Adventure Path "Age of Worms" in Forgotten Realms (there was a conversion pack), you could include Kyuss, who attempted to become a god, and instead became a demigod trapped in his own monolith. Kyuss is currently refered to as one of the "Elder Evils"
#14 Mr_Miscellany Nov 18, 2011 10:23:29	Thankee all.
#15 creyzi4zb12 Dec 29, 2011 9:58:37	Lords ladies and gents I think we can add [spoilers] Larloch [/spoilers] I remember Larloch mentioning something about him not wanting to be a god, or never attempting to become one.