75839059 wrote:
if not no.
but then I'd want the book to contain the avareil and the fey-ri too
Churches. Especially the demihuman churches in the wake of the alleged collapse of their pantheons and their gods' integration into the generic human pantheon. How's the former church of Hanali Celanil doing? How are Sun Elves reacting to the apparent actual existence of Angharradh? Hell, how are Moon Elves reacting since the myths concerning her are now clearly completely wrong? What kind of humans, exactly, are worshiping Corellon? Moradin? Lolth? How's their clergies handling it? Was it a revelation from the gods themselves that other races should be preached to or something the clergy decided on its own? I can make my own stuff up, but if I'm going to make my own stuff up I'm going to do it for my own homebrew setting because I'll then get more use out of it and also nobody can argue with me that my conclusions are wrong. 
And yes, some bloody maps that don't suck. The 4E FR map is about the same high 'quality' as the map I drew on the back of a Shadowrun character sheet for the campaign I ran in 3.5.
While we're dreaming, steal Elaine Cunningham back from Pathfinder and get her to write more FR novels/short stories. Hell, get her to write one for the book.
Better yet, make it a boxed set with several poster maps... :D
That way the production cost is very low...that even if it is only the FR fans that buy them they will make a profit.
I would also think of doing map packs for the various worlds. Detailing certain parts of the world would be pretty cool too...but I have no idea about the profit they would get from it.
Aren't the novels poring in tonnes of info?
Aren't the novels poring in tonnes of info?
Stupid forums, ate my post!
Any way, what I meant to say is that yes the novels do have info, but not necessarily game info, or city maps, or info on the gods aside from the greater ones who have already been covered a bazillion times.
Aside from a 4e Atlas, or 4e FR Adventures, they should also put out an Illustated Guide to the Forgotten REalms, like have been done with Star Wars, and Robert Jordan's the Wheel of Time. Something like that for the Realms would be Awesome! They could have pictures of key personages, temples, landmarks, cities, coins, heraldry, actualy Heraldry could be its own book! Isnt it about time that the Heralds got their own source book!?
Id also love to see the Merchants and Merchandise sourcebook that ED Greenwood always wanted to do, but was never allowed.
So, from the novels, who are the power players of the new FR?
Well so far the only 4e novel ive read it Wrath of the Blue Lady, and the Nine Golden Swords play into that one. They are a Shou crime organization active around the Sea of Fallen Stars. Im not sure if theyre are a branch of the Yakuza or their own separate group.
Theres also some info on Westgate in that one. Theyve extended their docks out to the new level of the sea and a sizable community has sprung up there called Tide Town, some of the buildings are built over looking, or into cliffs, presumably from where the sea used to be.
Like 2E's Forgotten Realms Adventures, I want a 4E update with maps of cities. Also, as I think the only chance that this has of ever being published is if it is linked with the LFR programme, I want it to include a map and other details for a city in each region, regional backgrounds for those regions that don't have backgrounds and a series of adventure hooks by region as currently appears in the MyRealms adventures/adventure templates for LFR.
Does anyone else agree?
Eh, not really interested in 4E Realms or LFR, so I wouldn't buy it. I'd only consider something that could be used with older editions.
Otherwise no, please no. Enough long-term damage has been done to the setting and its IP by the 4e team already.
BTW, nice one Aegeri!
Any way, what I meant to say is that yes the novels do have info, but not necessarily game info, or city maps, or info on the gods aside from the greater ones who have already been covered a bazillion times.
Something I wonder about, though - do the new novels have the same appeal, the same draw as the earlier novels? I'm kinda not seeing it, although media has changed over the past 20-some years. Back in the day, huge numbers of people would beg for info about Elminster, the harpers, or even just for more of Greenwood's articles on magic items and wizards' spellbooks. Flocks of people begged for info on Drizzt and the underdark when all of that came out. Today, it doesn't seem nearly the same. I see the occasional odd request for info on some characters (many seem to like Fox-at-Twilight, for example), but the entire feel and dynamic is really different.
Maybe people can't respond to DDI the same way as they could to print magazines, because it's hard to share articles and info with friends (and illegal, as well). Back in the 80s, I could borrow a Dragon magazine or look at modules in a store. Or maybe the new material just doesn't have the same appeal. Hard to tell. What I do know, just for me, is that I don't feel that same pull. What was it about Drizzt that made me buy every single one of those books? What is missing now, for me? I don't feel that lure, none of the new 4E novels have intrigued me enough.
Aside from a 4e Atlas, or 4e FR Adventures, they should also put out an Illustated Guide to the Forgotten REalms, like have been done with Star Wars, and Robert Jordan's the Wheel of Time. Something like that for the Realms would be Awesome! They could have pictures of key personages, temples, landmarks, cities, coins, heraldry, actualy Heraldry could be its own book! Isnt it about time that the Heralds got their own source book!?
Frankly, I wouldn't buy this either. They'd be obligated with 4E to throw in weird glass mountains, spellplagued something or other, and probably even floating earthmote cities. I didn't like the whole "Netheril returns" thing, and I pretty much hate the "Look, the Realms are now just like Nagrand in World of Warcraft!" thing.
Id also love to see the Merchants and Merchandise sourcebook that ED Greenwood always wanted to do, but was never allowed.
This, this I would buy as even an advance purchase. The way he writes this type of game material, it could probably be used in most any period (well, at least any edition). It would be chock full of flavor, and the whole idea just reminds me of the Volo guides which I still re-read and go to for ideas, some 20 years later.
What about the droves of new fans that love the Realms? Would you squash their enjoyment to sate your own? You would be a GOD in the current Realms community for your love and vast knowledge of the Realms. It is still applicable and I find it very rewarding to talk about the history of places in the Realms with people who only know them through the current edition.
Basically, why are you being a persistant thorn? Would you rather see everything torn down than inspire future generations with Realmslore? It appears rather selfish and cynical.
Judging by your comments, you are now 24+ months behind on the Realms and current timelines. I think it to be irresponsible to make some of the claims you are, being removed from the Realms now for some time.
Jorunhast,
What about the droves of new fans that love the Realms? Would you squash their enjoyment to sate your own? You would be a GOD in the current Realms community for your love and vast knowledge of the Realms. It is still applicable and I find it very rewarding to talk about the history of places in the Realms with people who only know them through the current edition.
Basically, why are you being a persistant thorn? Would you rather see everything torn down than inspire future generations with Realmslore? It appears rather selfish and cynical.
Judging by your comments, you are now 24+ months behind on the Realms and current timelines. I think it to be irresponsible to make some of the claims you are, being removed from the Realms now for some time.
How do I respond to this, really? You're painting me as a "out of date" and evil thorn, selfish and cynical, irresponsible and apparently no longer entitled to post about the Realms. Quite frankly... do you really believe ALL of that about me, or are you putting me into the hater camp and dismissing me entirely?
Should I buy things that don't spark my interest? Should I just simply go away? Is that what the designers want from those who used to buy nearly everything printed?
Or should I let people know what I -would- buy (which is exactly what I did)?
I think you could be a major asset to the current Realms with your love and knowledge of the older lore. I would rather see this put to good use rather than as a tool to show why you disagree with the current timeline.
Putting words into my mouth won't help the situation.
How am I putting words into your mouth, when you specifically chose all of those words? I didn't add any words at all to what you claimed of me. It was beyond insulting, and highly personal.
And quite frankly, attacking me on a personal level won't "help the situation" either.
Someone earlier asked about the 4E Novels, I find them to be really good.
There is an extra degree of interest for me in earlier novels, but that is primarily because I know the places and have met some of the characters before, something that has not happened as yet with the 4E novels. I expect there may be more of this in the future.
The Eddie presents Waterdeep series is 4E and has been received very well to my knowledge.
Jorunhast,
What about the droves of new fans that love the Realms? Would you squash their enjoyment to sate your own? You would be a GOD in the current Realms community for your love and vast knowledge of the Realms. It is still applicable and I find it very rewarding to talk about the history of places in the Realms with people who only know them through the current edition.
Basically, why are you being a persistant thorn? Would you rather see everything torn down than inspire future generations with Realmslore? It appears rather selfish and cynical.
Judging by your comments, you are now 24+ months behind on the Realms and current timelines. I think it to be irresponsible to make some of the claims you are, being removed from the Realms now for some time.
1) Can we agree that alot of the things that got these 'droves' of new fans to love the Realms are the exact same things that people like I and Jorunhast used to love about the Realms? So turn the question around why did my enjoyment get squashed to sate their's?
2) I don't anybody playing the FR that is not in the RPGA...and there are very few members who do play in the RPGA that care about the world beyond the 'Encounter' or the 'Module'. So now I don't get where these 'droves' of the FR fans are hungry for older lore?
3) While it might not have been your intent your words were a little insultive and personal.
Just a thought.
Hi JohnKretzer, to reply to you...
(1) I have been an active fan of the Realms since 2e. I have seen each iteration that supposedly ruined the Realms and I admit it is tiresome to see the affliction continue. The Realms can be presented in any way that one wishes so it perplexes me that a demand must be made to conform to a one person's enjoyment of it. I hate JarJar Binks and Ewoks, but I would never think to completely ignore Star Wars lore that came after them. I love the Star Wars universe because it is enjoyable and in my own home games, I can change what I dislike.
(2) I can't I agree with you on this point as I am in the LFR community and quite active. There are so many new people, yes, but there are swaths of people who have followed the Realms just as much as I have. Seeing the new blood in the Realms is quite exciting though and I welcome the chance to interact with them when I can. It's kinda fun to know the old lore and talk about it 
This is how the stories continue in my opinion.
(3) And on the other token, some of the comments made were quite insultive-- especially to those who continue working in the Realms. I would be remiss if I let just low-jabs continue, especially when they tear down the Realms instead of inspiring others to correct the perceived issues.
EDIT: I agree-- I think it would be great to get a new compiled Realmslore book or something. It would be good all-around
Though just to stay on topic, I'm ambivalent towards new 4e FR books coming or not coming down the publishing schedule.
Hi JohnKretzer, to reply to you...
(1) I have been an active fan of the Realms since 2e. I have seen each iteration that supposedly ruined the Realms and I admit it is tiresome to see the affliction continue. The Realms can be presented in any way that one wishes so it perplexes me that a demand must be made to conform to a one person's enjoyment of it. I hate JarJar Binks and Ewoks, but I would never think to completely ignore Star Wars lore that came after them. I love the Star Wars universe because it is enjoyable and in my own home games, I can change what I dislike.
(2) I can't I agree with you on this point as I am in the LFR community and quite active. There are so many new people, yes, but there are swaths of people who have followed the Realms just as much as I have. Seeing the new blood in the Realms is quite exciting though and I welcome the chance to interact with them when I can. It's kinda fun to know the old lore and talk about it
(3) And on the other token, some of the comments made were quite insultive-- especially to those who continue working in the Realms. I would be remiss if I let just low-jabs continue, especially when they tear down the Realms instead of inspiring others to correct the perceived issues.
EDIT: I agree-- I think it would be great to get a new compiled Realmslore book or something. It would be good all-around
1) There is difference here that might be sorta hard to see. Ewoks or Jar-Jar Binks did not actualy counter what you do (or what Lucus did) in the previous background. Also as I said on another thread...the New Realms tore down everything that some of my previous character fought for. Sure I can accept their failure...but looking at it from a deep immersion stimulationist prospective...would you be happy if the DM at your next session says to you..."you have completely failed. No don't roll any dice and I don't care what you do it does not matter." That is pretty much what WotC did in 'ending some story lines'. That is nonsense to the extreme. Sure in a book or a movie I can accept this...because those mediums don't have the same amount of investment a RPG can have. That is the key to my issue...they did not consider the RP inplication of what they did.
2) As I said that is my area and exposure to the RPGA. Yours can be very different but that is ultimately meaningless to me.
3) People who write or anything for the public should expect to be critized. I mean the whole story in the GHotF with the love triangle between Tyr-Helm-Tymora leading up to the duel between Helm and Tyr deserve critism. That had to be the worst story advancement that I have heard about in anything. It make Jar-JarBinks and the Ewoks look like Shakespearian characters in comparsion. It did not only go counter to everything ever written about those characters it also aped a soap opera. Now does the writtir or whoever came up with this idea find this insulting I can't control..I hope though that they would realize...hey this was a bad idea and actualy learn from it. Sure you could justfied it by having a evil god pulling these gods strings...but then you futher cheapen these gods by having some other one run roughshod over them. Sure I can understand and people can get insultive to writters and do step over the bounds...but I'll say this as far as I can see Jorunhast has not done that...atleast to the level that you had insulted him to. I might have...but I tend to me more blunt sometimes. But my advice to you and anybody who want to do something that will recieve critical attention...grow thicker skin.
The Realms have always been torn asunder by cataclysms, deicides, and out of control magic. Just ask Karsus and the citizens of old High Netheril. Or the drowned people of Jhaamdath. Or the Batrachi. Or Moander. Or the elves that caused the Sundering. (Just to name a few.)
That said, I would LOVE a new FR hardback, especially if it was similar to the old Forgotten Realms Adventures 2E book.
community.wizards.com/lfr/blog/2010/06/1...
The links system for these forums really suck...sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't...
With the changes that are coming for the Living Realms, we might get an update of some sort...
community.wizards.com/lfr/blog/2010/06/1...
The links system for these forums really suck...sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't...
This part was interesting:
- "...WOTC is 100% removing itself from approving adventures. This means that LFR will no longer be canon with the exception of certain special events that we work out with them, if any. While this may initially seem unfortunate, it is really for the best as well will no longer have to work on their timeline..."
In a lot of ways, I think it's a very good thing that LFR will no longer be canon. This is a much-needed change, IMO.
that is good.
In a lot of ways, I think it's a very good thing that LFR will no longer be canon. This is a much-needed change, IMO.
Do the same thing with the novels and we've achieved perfection.
Back in the day, huge numbers of people would beg for info about Elminster, the harpers, or even just for more of Greenwood's articles on magic items and wizards' spellbooks. Flocks of people begged for info on Drizzt and the underdark when all of that came out. Today, it doesn't seem nearly the same. I see the occasional odd request for info on some characters (many seem to like Fox-at-Twilight, for example), but the entire feel and dynamic is really different.
This is an immensely flawed post. "Back in the day" there wasn't anywhere near the sheer exposure of Elminster and Drizzt. Back in the day I loved the original Drizzt novels, today I absolutely despise Drizzt and everything he stands for. They're over done dues ex machina characters (both of them) to the extreme and the fact that wizards were daft enough to stat them was even worse.
There is liking a character and then there is having it shoved down your throat repeatedly (which is what they did IMO with both of these). What I'm basically pointing out here is the difference might be attributable not to people no longer reading 4E novels, but instead to those two characters you mentioned getting tired of by people. After all, we've discussed at length the endless complaints about high level dues ex machina NPCs in the realms "ruining" games.
This is an immensely flawed post. "Back in the day" there wasn't anywhere near the sheer exposure of Elminster and Drizzt. Back in the day I loved the original Drizzt novels, today I absolutely despise Drizzt and everything he stands for. They're over done dues ex machina characters (both of them) to the extreme and the fact that wizards were daft enough to stat them was even worse.
There is liking a character and then there is having it shoved down your throat repeatedly (which is what they did IMO with both of these). What I'm basically pointing out here is the difference might be attributable not to people no longer reading 4E novels, but instead to those two characters you mentioned getting tired of by people. After all, we've discussed at length the endless complaints about high level dues ex machina NPCs in the realms "ruining" games.
Well, whether or not it's "flawed" is really more a matter of personal feeling, opinion, and experience. I'm sorry and it's really unfortunate that you had the experience you had, but it's almost the polar opposite of my experience. I loved Elminster, Drizzt, even the seven sisters. For game flavor, I was never in a game that used them inappropriately, so again my experience apparently differs from yours.
but what I hate about them is hearing tales of DMs that had any of them showing up and saving the day taking all the spotlight, and hearing of commentsa made taht said, hey were in shadowdale, why doesnt Elminster take care of it with his armies.
bad dm planning tip:
play where powerful NPC lives, said npc should be out of town while the PCs are running through
Do the same thing with the novels and we've achieved perfection.
QFT
If that is the case, and I could be 100% wrong, a new hardback (or even a 196-page softcover as is proposed for the Points-of-Light setting) with a poop-free map could work. I still think 2E's FR Adventures provides the blueprint for such a book and I really do hope it gets published.
Such a book, with maps of, say, 15-20 key cities and detailed maps of the more popular regions (by a competent cartographer who agrees not to use poop) could serve as a springboard for these new LFR campaigns. Heck, call the book Living Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide and make it a core book for the LFR.
I think it's worth a punt.
As for this:
What about the droves of new fans that love the Realms? Would you squash their enjoyment to sate your own?
Absolutely. It's only fair, after all.
Sorry to rain on folks' parade but...
all of this, is making the "Forgotten" Realms, not in the least "Forgotten"....sigh 
I know folk want uber detialed Realms, but it's why I gave up on the Realms. It had becoem so detialed, so mapped, I, as a DM, coudlnt' do what *I* liked, and it had nothing in common with what I saw the original Relams, as.
Compare 1st boxed set, vs 4th, 3rd ed, or last boxed set for 2nd ed.
Original Realms was msyterious, wild, rustic, dangerous, intriguing , today we may as well have a Tom-Tom GPS on every party, gah! 
Sorry to rain on folks' parade but...all of this, is making the "Forgotten" Realms, not in the least "Forgotten"....sigh
The reason it was called "Forgotten" Realms is because we, on Earth, forgot about our portals to Toril. And there were quite a few, which is the reason why several of the Faerunian cultures are so close to a few of our old cultures.
but what I hate about them is hearing tales of DMs that had any of them showing up and saving the day taking all the spotlight . . .
This hypothetical idea has been voiced enough that people started assuming it must actually have happened. In fact, among hundreds of posts on a dozen boards I've read complaining about this have been a tiny handful of actual play instances where anything of the kind was claimed to have occurred.
Who else wants a poop-free map?
The ugly, ugly map is the only reason I did not buy the 4E Realms. Were a purty map produced, I would give the Spellplague and things a chance.
but but it had ugly color tones... hahahahaha
but but it had ugly color tones... hahahahaha
I can agree with that, I think that they could of done the color ALOT better. The Shaar and the Border Kingdoms just look to green for being a desert wasteland.
I like the map. I must be the only one. I hated the old 3.x map. It sucked epically.
I like new realms. Again I seem to be one of few =*(
HAIL SHAR MYSTRA'S DEAD!
Naw you aint the only one, I like the new map too. I didnt mind the 3e one, I thought it looked alright, It just ****** me off that they cut out parts of the Realms to get it all to fit in there. That was not cool!
I like the map. I must be the only one. I hated the old 3.x map. It sucked epically.
I like new realms. Again I seem to be one of few =*(
HAIL SHAR MYSTRA'S DEAD!
I'm one of that few: I like the New Realms, too.
But I don't like the new map. I did like the 3E map.
What we really need are detailed maps of each region, short histories, city maps, and important personalities in each region/city.
If for example, my players say they are traveling to the city of Tilverton I want to be able to pull up a map and see all the towns and roads that the players will encounter on the way there. The current FR book is useless for this. Then when they arrive at the city I want a city map that I can hand to the players. I also want short list of important personalities, laws, guilds, customs, militia forces, and important places in the city.
For the past two editions of the game I have only seen information repeated (but worded differently) in each source book. The same locations are detailed over and over again. Sadly each time they are included in a new source book less information appears about that location then was previously published.