Liches are not canidates, neither are deties, or demons, ect.
Now if I could do an Honorable mention it would be Larloch, yet Liches are not allowed, so it would have to be Drizzit.;)
i'm going for Artemis! Bring it on Delta!
Araumycos
But, since most people are not going to appreciate a technicality, let's see...
With liches ruled out, that means the likes of Larloch and Szass Tam are knocked off.
I *might* technically count as a mortal, but then again, being a vampire (undead), with a horde of clones kept in reserve for any mishap that may befall me, I'm not sure if I fairly qualify for the "mortal" tag. So, eliminating myself from this, we now come to ...
Elminster. He's still got more might than the new-age pipsqueaks running around. But, if we take a look at the fact that Elminster is still alive even after all that's happened, it would seem his lifespan isn't "mortal" in the normal sense, since he has altered it. So, with that in mind, I would have to say the one being who may count is....
Tchazzar. Although Tchazzar was considered to be a god in his own right, he *technically* doesn't possess the same level of power that deities or other cosmic entities do, and, to our knowledge, hasn't embraced undeath or some other method of prolonging his already-impressive longevity.
Tchazzar.
I actually thought of you first LM, but yeah being a vampire probably would disqualify you. And giant Fungi are probably out too, and as far as Tchazzar goes, Im pretty sure he is long dead, he was never a god, that was just Tiamat using his name to drum up more worshippers.
I still say Elminster, regardless of his lifespan, I would still consider him to be mortal.
I can think of several contenders (mostly during the pre spellplague years too).
Among the arcanely skilled there is a powerful elder great wyrm golden dragon named Nexus (wizard 20, archmage 5; CR 52) who can cast spells like the best and is a GOLD DRAGON to boot.
There is the Shrinsee (elven wizard 30 /elven high mage 10; CR 40) but I don't know about her status much.
Telemont Thantul is pretty powerfull pre-spellplague Human Shade Illusionist 7/ Shadow Adept 10/ Shadowcrafter 13/Archmage 5/Mentalist 5; CR 42) but would have taken a hard hit to his power during the spellplague (the previously mentioned magi aswell).
The strongest (mostly) human spellcaster is the Simbul (Sor20/Arc2/Wiz10; CR 36), but Elminster Ftr1/Rog2/Cleric3/Wiz20/Arc3/Epic4; CR 39) has better utility spells and survivability.
For the strongest fighter or swordsman I'll direct you to Ed's wise reply from a few years afore...erdana, Arial, Helvetica">erdana, Arial, Helvetica; color:#000000; font-size:x-small">erdana, Arial, Helvetica; font-size:x-small">
Well, now. “Swordsmen” you say, so I’m going to narrow my reply down to: male living (not dead or undead) humans.
I’m going to further qualify my reply by saying that among the most skilled masters of bladework, “best” becomes a matter of opinion regarding style, and the average observer can’t identify (let alone properly interpret) most subtle differences because they’re either dead too quickly, or too dazzled by things that happen too swiftly for them to see properly and too deftly for them to measure or grasp the implications of (matters of shifting a foe just a little off balance, or forcing a movement in stance or location, that will lead to a killing stroke three or four maneuvers later).
Moreover, “best” is a steadily shifting title, even when one sets aside divine and magical meddling, because (as with real-world tennis) youthful speed and acrobatic suppleness, plus freedom from injuries and the slowing and crippling effects of aging (on, say, the human knee), must always be balanced against the experience gained in duel after duel after battle: young swordsmen are always rising to the fore, but only step into the ranks of the “best” when those more expert through real-life practice grow too slow to defeat the most skilled younglings (or the younglings overcome their inexperience).
I’m also going to restrict myself purely to matters of bladework, in a one-on-one fight in surroundings that favour neither combatant. In other words, I’m minimizing “street smarts” or dirty fighting or the adventurers’ experience in exploiting traction, lighting, obstacles, distractions, and all of that: factors that seasoned adventurers (like Durnan of Waterdeep) can use to defeat foes who might be a shade faster or a whit better in pure bladework. This will work against Artemis Entreri, for example, but also against a host of other adventurers whom I won’t even mention in this reply, but who might otherwise show up in my answer.
(Personally, I’d rather not do any “best of” rankings, because I think they’re subjective, snapshots of moments in time that are dated even as they’re made, and a bit pointless. Even in pure-skill tournaments, upsets occur, and if a DM wants to create an unknown who’s better than the individuals mentioned here, go right ahead.)
However, I probably possess the best overview of the entire tapestry of the Realms of anyone (though not all that far ahead of, say, Messrs. Boyd and Krashos, closely followed by Schend, Hunter, and Grubb), and can speak from that strength - - not being limited, for instance, by published Realmslore.
So you’re really going to have to trust me here, when I say that the best bladesman in the Realms right now (1375 DR) is: Harmel Artru, a darkly handsome, agile, glib-tongued and lady-charming merchant seacaptain (and sometime pirate), who sails The Winsome Lady independent caravel out of Saerloon (and a secret base somewhere in the Pirate Isles).
Only a whisker-width behind Artru is Loaros Hammarandar, a broad-shouldered, grim giant of a man who can hurl his prodigious strength and bulk around like an acrobat, and is an ever-wary-of-treachery mercenary warmaster currently under hire by Narubel, who commands “the Swift Sword” cavalry force used to quell bandits and unrest in that city and its surrounding farms (and dedicates himself to quietly eliminating all threats to the current rulership, prosperity, and status quo in Narubel).
Close behind Artru and Hammarandar are Skoalam Marlgrask and then Sraece Telthorn.
Skoalam Marlgrask is a professional duelist who travels Chessenta as the champion of whomever sponsors him in duels, making huge sums (because everyone locally knows he’s “the best” in duels, and so tries to outbid opponents seeking to hire his services) that are usually paid in gems and used by Marlgrask to immediately buy property, notably an ever-expanding string of inns and taverns. Marlgrask is polite, saturnine, nondescript of looks but quietly luxurious of dress, and seems able to sense danger (crossbow snipers, for instance) before it can reach out for him. He’s known to be resistant to many natural poisons (having learned this the hard way), but now takes great care regarding what he eats and drinks (hence his purchase of many inns and taverns).
Sraece Telthorn is a smallish, agile, almost feminine man who can dance, tumble, balance, and spring with a skill and precision matched only by the greatest acrobats (once leaping off a parapet to land perfectly balanced on a sloping, protruding flagstaff far below, for instance, and often springing over the slashing swords of opponents). He teaches “swordplay” (fencing) in Yhaunn and Waterdeep, and is believed to travel between the two by means of secret portals of unknown origin and location. Telthorn lives simply, is unambitious (avoiding power and important patrons, and giving much of his coins away), and is beloved by many pleasure-lasses of Waterdeep, who regard him as a kind friend or honorary brother as well as a frequent client.
I’d put the infamous Artemis Entreri after Telthorn, though I could be persuaded to rank two other male human bladesmen between them: Ulmaer Rivrymm of Sheirtalar (a smiling, wax-mustached man of good nature but lightning-swift reflexes and keen sight, who is personal bodyguard to the Overking of Lapaliiya, and can juggle scimitars to entertain), and Aka ‘the Questmaster’ (the mysterious sponsor and trainer of adventurers) who dwells, these days, in the wilderlands of the Sword Coast North.
If I widen my reply to include human females, two must be inserted: Ember Tsartaera between Hammarandar and Marlgrask, and Lyaunthra Aldegal between Marlgrask and Telthorn.
Ember Tsartaera is the tall, cool of manner and sparing of words Knight of Arms (weaponsmaster, or trainer of bodyguards and soldiers) to Lord Albin, ruler of Furthinghome in Aglarond, where she dwells. Ember dresses plainly, lives in spartan surroundings, and is always under iron self-control, keeping to herself and crafting masterwork swords when she’s not practising using them or training others to do so; she never raises her voice (though she can be coldly, cuttingly firm), is always alert and anticipating trouble, and has an acrobatic fighting style; she’s famous in Furthinghome for catching hurled daggers and arrows in flight.
Lyaunthra Aldegal has recently settled in Waterdeep, though she still retains homes in her three previous bases: Silverymoon, Neverwinter, and Secomber. “The Lioness” is a superb maker of bladed weapons and tools (who learned her skills from her now-dead parents), who can resharpen and balance almost any fragment of a mistreated item. She owns and travels between small weapon shops in Waterdeep, Silverymoon, Neverwinter, and Secomber, and specializes in finding just the right weapon for a client, and in weapons-training and -practising with select clients. Known to have ironguard protection afforded by a wearable item (a choker or anklet, most believe), she’s also known to be able to withstand great pain, once (in the days before her ironguard protection) slaying a killer who’d put his blade through her hilt-deep, and then (despite being hit by both acid and fire magics) staggering through four rooms to get healing potions, managing to drink them and pluck forth his blade without passing out. Aldegal is a fire-haired, rugged-looking woman who takes numerous lovers, arrives and departs quietly and unexpectedly, and is seldom to be found where one expects to find her.
Quite a roster.
If I now widen my reply further, to include elves, half-elves, dwarves, halflings, and gnomes (note that I’m still excluding shapechanging races and multi-armed intelligent “monsters”), I’d put Maethrammar Aerasume between Artru and Hammarandar, and Drizzt Do’Urden JUST behind Marlgrask.
However, ask me this a year from now (Realms time), and - - even if there haven’t been fatalities - - these rankings may have shifted around quite a bit. As I said, among individuals of this skill, determinations are whisker-thin.
So saith Ed. Whew. Warned you, didn’t I? What Ed and all of we original players share when reading or listening to debates about “bests” and most this or that of the Realms is that there’s so much as-yet-unpublished Realmslore about this everchanging world that Ed crafted and continues to detail and expand, right alongside other writers (so the argument that “well, we can’t go by Ed’s original, we can only discuss the published Realms, that’s diverged so much from his original” goes right out the window). I happen to agree with Ed that rating “best” bladesmen is a bit pointless because it’s so subjective, changes so fast, and has such little practical roleplaying value - - but I fully understand Feanor’s curiosity in wanting to know. It’s a longing to know and understand the Realms more fully that we all share.
And I hope we will always continue to do so!
love to all,
THO
Tchazzar.
and as far as Tchazzar goes, Im pretty sure he is long dead, he was never a god, that was just Tiamat using his name to drum up more worshippers.
Well... According to the product description:
And Suin, thats some interesting stuff, thanks for posting that!
Elminster could totally kick Drizzts ass! Even in his weakened 4e state.
Elminster would kick Drizzt's butt in a bubble of silence and one hand tied behind his back.
This is great! Dragons are fine, but sorry LM you are out. Elminster is technically mortal, and is up for consideration.
ummm Elmister is immortal, not invulnerable, always has been.
and also has PLOT ARMOR.... and LEGALITY ARMOR which unnoficially means next to impossible to kill him or drizzt for that matter
This is great! Dragons are fine, but sorry LM you are out. Elminster is technically mortal, and is up for consideration.
ummm Elmister is immortal, not invulnerable, always has been.
and also has PLOT ARMOR.... and LEGALITY ARMOR which unnoficially means next to impossible to kill him or drizzt for that matter
Thats why Drizzit, and the Old Goat should team up and open a can of whoop ***. Oh Hell yeah!
just remember Delta you started it with the SCSA line
and thats the bottom line.
So does that make Silver Jimmy Hart?
Elminster is really secretly Chuck Norris....So he wins...
It depends on what timeline were talking about, pre 4e definitely Elminster, in 4e i dunno, Elminster seems to be finally showing his age. I honestly think Inferno would take him, not sure about Tchazzar, if hes been imprisoned all this time, he might be in a weaken state as well. Still im sure the Old Sage still has some tricks up his sleeve, I look forward to reading the next Elminster book, that may sway my decision one way or the other.
Elminster is really secretly Chuck Norris....So he wins...
It depends on what timeline were talking about, pre 4e definitely Elminster, in 4e i dunno, Elminster seems to be finally showing his age. I honestly think Inferno would take him, not sure about Tchazzar, if hes been imprisoned all this time, he might be in a weaken state as well. Still im sure the Old Sage still has some tricks up his sleeve, I look forward to reading the next Elminster book, that may sway my decision one way or the other.
To be honest the real question at work here is "Who has the most plot armor" and I think that's a close race between Elminster and Drizzt.
Elminster's Plot armor , you see they kill off ELminster, that is one of many things that must come to past for the Realms to revert to Ed Greenwood.
Drizzt's Plot armor is that he sells right now.
To be honest the real question at work here is "Who has the most plot armor" and I think that's a close race between Elminster and Drizzt.
lol, hard to argue that one.
Though if elementals count, Blazing Rorn the Fury is pretty powerful...
Anybody re member a guy named Velsharoon? I recall a note saying he was a mortal once.
Shush you, you're obviously delusional.
Halaster would definitely have the advantage in the Creature Competition.
Fixed that for ya.
Oh, BTW: [spoilers] Thanks for not stacking the vote in the CC, guys. I lost to Halaster F*****g Blackcloak because of you.
[/spoiler]Halaster would definitely have the advantage in the Creature Competition.
Fixed that for ya.
Oh, BTW: [spoilers] Thanks for not stacking the vote in the CC, guys. I lost to Halaster F*****g Blackcloak because of you.
Well you should of gave us a heads up, i saw a thing for the creature competition but i didnt really check it none, i thought it was like ones that theyve done in the past like rust monster vs gelatinous cube, i didnt realize it was specific D&D personalities duking it out, that makes it much more interesting, i'll be following this starting now, but to be perfectly honest i probably still would of went with Halaster, sorry LM
what when where why???
Creature Competion thingy, check it out here www.wizards.com/dnd/cc.aspx
Well you should of gave us a heads up, i saw a thing for the creature competition but i didnt really check it none, i thought it was like ones that theyve done in the past like rust monster vs gelatinous cube, i didnt realize it was specific D&D personalities duking it out, that makes it much more interesting, i'll be following this starting now, but to be perfectly honest i probably still would of went with Halaster, sorry LM
Undermountain-loving traitor. I trusted you!
yeah I voted long ago.
before the empire, before the dark times
back when the Zhentarium used their heads.
before fzoul , before them all.
back when the Zhentarium used their heads.
Now thats an oxymoron...
HALASTER=EPIC WIN!
back when the Zhentarium used their heads.
Now thats an oxymoron...
HALASTER=EPIC WIN!
Not even Ed could stop TSR from crapping all over the Zhentarim (and any other force of evil). You know this to be true.
Also, way to hop on the bandwagon.
Maybe that's because the Zhentarim and their founders were twits who deserved it...
... Except they weren't. According to Ed, the Zhentarim were supposed to be one of the sharpest bunches around, who boasted some of the strongest non-Chosen level spellcasters and a cohesive fighting force skilled at manipulation and infiltration, a serious threat to the Realms. Sadly, because TSR's policy was "Evil must never seem to be a genuine threat to the forces of good", and the forces of malevolence have to appear ass-backward lest people actually grow fond of them, even one of the top organizations in Ed's realms had to take a nosedive.
Actually, now that I think about it, a "Most powerful organizations" thread might be interesting... if it wasn't for the fact that Netheril and the Abolethic Sovereignty would ride to victory on plot-armored mounts.
back when the Zhentarium used their heads.
Now thats an oxymoron...
HALASTER=EPIC WIN!
Not even Ed could stop TSR from crapping all over the Zhentarim (and any other force of evil). You know this to be true.
Also, way to hop on the bandwagon.
Keystone Kops for the Fail!
I am not on any 'bandwagon'.
Halaster just kicks some much ***, with his bad self.
When I go through my Cyric kicks, now thats when I am on a 'bandwagon'.
EDIT: LM how is your sister Duskarashoon(sp) doing?
Gomez
Maybe that's because the Zhentarim and their founders were twits who deserved it...
... Except they weren't. According to Ed, the Zhentarim were supposed to be one of the sharpest bunches around, who boasted some of the strongest non-Chosen level spellcasters and a cohesive fighting force skilled at manipulation and infiltration, a serious threat to the Realms. Sadly, because TSR's policy was "Evil must never seem to be a genuine threat to the forces of good", and the forces of malevolence have to appear ass-backward lest people actually grow fond of them, even one of the top organizations in Ed's realms had to take a nosedive.
Actually, now that I think about it, a "Most powerful organizations" thread might be interesting... if it wasn't for the fact that Netheril and the Abolethic Sovereignty would ride to victory on plot-armored mounts.
And? They're the poster children for Fail in the Realms still. Especially with Mr. Mustache at the helm... though he's had a better run of things than Manshoon ever really managed. Best he ever accomplished was being the Realms version of a failed Jango Fett.
;)
They're the poster children for Fail in the Realms still.
Actually, RB mentioned back when 4E FR was still young that the Zhentarim still made fairly strong gains in the past century, even after losing Zhentil Keep. It's just that now they're finally working in the shadows, like they were originally intended. ;)
*waits for Delta to come praise Cyric for their successes*
Especially with Mr. Mustache at the helm... though he's had a better run of things than Manshoon ever really managed.
Yeah, that worked out just swell for Fzoul.
nothing more he was lucky do to his followers either fearing him or his dictating ability.
Fzoul was a Fool.
Hallelujah!
nothing more he was lucky do to his followers either fearing him or his dictating ability.
I like how even then, he failed to rid the Zhentarim of the Cyricists, who in turn seized the reins from the Banites following the demise of Fzoul. He should've known the dangers of leaving religious dissidents to their own devices, even if rooting out such people was a tricky task, seeing as how that's how he secured power following the Cyricist debacle and Xvim's grab for power.
His fate's even funnier since he's a footstool compared to Bane's other divine servants/allies.
I actually started my Realms in 1356, gave me more of a back story to work in there, took me 3 years before i ever got to the Time of Troubles, i think i left off in 1373, i was all for continuing it but i was out voted and we went with starting new characters in 1479, and i got to say its not as bad as some people make it out to be.
But any way to stay on topic, if we're talking most powerful mortal EVER, then the answer is obviosly Lord Karsus.
The Hands of Karsus(tm) agree...
The Non-Hands of Karsus(tm) cant decide
Zallanora Agentresses AKA Shoon VII.
Although once a Lich, who was imprisoned, during the Time of Troubles he managed to become free and take over the body of Zallanora Agentresses a young Elven wizard. He is now a mortal.
Although he's largely been forgotten, there is no reason to believe that he still isn't out there somewhere. As of 2nd Edition he was a level 36 neutral evil necromancer.
To give a comparison Elminster and the Simbul were just level 29 and 30 respectively in 2nd Edition.
When it comes to pure power and ability, I'd place Shoon VII either equal to or slightly below Larloch.
I think a Shoon descendant was featured in Blackstaff; I should try to find another novel on them to learn more...
Edit: I believe the Necroqysar Shoon VII is statted at about necromancer wizard 37 (CR 37) with just elven status (formarly he would have the LA of a lich which doesn't really add that much besides some immunities so I woulnd't raise his effective CR that much).
- If you all can pardon the irreverance of my post ;)
- I would suggest that THE most powerful person in the Realms would be...
- the gnome selling toilet paper, bug repellant, tobacco, snacks, Leatherman Tools, and duct tape, in the Yawning Portal inn!
- Why? well, have YOU ever been on a camping trip or spelunking expedition?!
- *imagines gnome at top of well, lowering goodies down in a basket, bog roll being worth 1000 times it's weight in gold to any sane adventurer, that is gonna be one RICH gnome, with many many powerful friends!*
- He who has Andrex, is King!
- hehe sorry, been a long standing jest and point of logic in our games, especially about Undermountain
- The practical aspects of adventuring are sooooooooo overlooked, tsk tsk!
yeah I couldnt resist either
Volo needs his toiletpaper (what else to use for his broadsheet articles?).
I've seen the spell, and it requires really soft paper, easily broken up in small little squares, as a material component...
Sure in the old days, but nowa days any ol bit of residuum will do.
Mage Hand could probaly get the job done too, but that might be a little werid.
Alias, i mean gods theirs like 12 of her, and as much as i like and belive that Drizzit is the lone best fighter ever, fighting 12 half humans half golems. Nope! not to mention the fact she dosent even draw most her life force from herself, youd have to kill draggonbait first to truly weaken her
ok what was i thinking Elminster wouldnot even bother, hed kill everyone imidetly
This is not a serious answer but...
the most powerful person in the Realms is it's creator Ed Greenwood.
HobbitFan wrote:
One of the Netherise arch wizards is still kicking around. Ioulaum IIRC and is now an illithid elder brain and a level 41 wizard. CR 45 or 50 IIRC.
Elminster is more like CR 32 or 33 as his non wizard levels do not amount to much.