I'm sorry if this has been asked before, I tried searching but i'm not very handy yet with the new search tool.
My character is a pursuing avenger of Kelemvor. He hunts the undead, the practisioners of necromancy, the spreaders of disease, and, of course, followers of Cyric.
I recon Kelemvor's domains are fate, death and justice.
Is this correct and has there been any official word on the domains of the Toril pantheon?
You are correct. Death, Fate, and Justice.
Is this correct and has there been any official word on the domains of the Toril pantheon?
Since you have D&D Insider, you should be able to access the new article in Dragon about Domains for the Deities of FR and Eberron. That should help (not that many of the matches are sensible; Oghma and Trickery my foot.)
woot, released 28 august 
thx for the heads up.
it's fate, death and justice indeed, just as I imagined it would be.
Since you have D&D Insider, you should be able to access the new article in Dragon about Domains for the Deities of FR and Eberron. That should help (not that many of the matches are sensible; Oghma and Trickery my foot.)
Why is that not sensible? Oghma had trickery for a domain in 3rd edition.
Any idea what Domains are associated with Torm? I was hopin for Justice and Strength and possibly Hope.
Why is that not sensible? Oghma had trickery for a domain in 3rd edition.
And I didn't like it last edition either. Perhaps I shouldn't have used this one as an example. I just don't see the connection between Oghma and Trickery. He's all about revelation, and spreading the truth, even if it hurts. He doesn't deceive, nor does he allow secrets or lies to remain when he has the power to eliminate them. I think Trickery, I think more along the lines of mischief and manipulation deities, more like Erevan or Leira. The concept of Trickery just clashes with Oghma in my mind, since I don't see him promoting mischief or manipulation. But maybe I'm just being thick here. Is there a way to reasonably interpret Oghma as a trickster, based on lore and known information?
RE: Oghma and Trickery
Perhaps Oghma has some aspect to which we mere mortals are not privy. Perhaps. Maybe he tricked us into thinking he was always above board?
Filson
Any idea what Domains are associated with Torm? I was hopin for Justice and Strength and possibly Hope.
Torm has Civilization, justice, protection.
Diffan: Why is that not sensible? Oghma had trickery for a domain in 3rd edition.
Lordmanshoon: And I didn't like it last edition either. Perhaps I shouldn't have used this one as an example. I just don't see the connection between Oghma and Trickery. He's all about revelation, and spreading the truth, even if it hurts. He doesn't deceive, nor does he allow secrets or lies to remain when he has the power to eliminate them. I think Trickery, I think more along the lines of mischief and manipulation deities, more like Erevan or Leira. The concept of Trickery just clashes with Oghma in my mind, since I don't see him promoting mischief or manipulation. But maybe I'm just being thick here. Is there a way to reasonably interpret Oghma as a trickster, based on lore and known information?
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Oghma also had at least four other cleric domains in 3e. The issue is that of all the things Oghma may represent, trickery has the least going for it, if anything at all. Seeing as greater deities are only presented with three domains in 4e, the ones chosen should reflect major tenets of the faith. As I interpret it, trickery is at best tangential and at worst antithetical to Oghman doctrine. It boils down to opinion, but I think a stronger case can be made for trickery not fitting so well.
AFAIK lore does not point to Oghma as a trickster. Many bards are tricksters, and many bards worship Oghma, but that hardly makes Oghma a deity of trickery. Turns of phrase and witty song lyrics are represented quite adequately (imho) by the Skill domain.
@topic: I would guess that Kel's domains are a much clearer match for most people.
PS (Am I the only one having difficulty quoting??)
Re: Oghma and trickery
Back in 1e, Oghma was god of bards; not sure what (if any) changes arose in 2e and 3e. In 4e, his description mentions that he has power over not only what is remembered, but what is to be forgotten. Between these two things, I can see trickery under Oghma as a form of sleight-of-hand and distraction/diversion - trickery in perhaps its most innocent form - as compared to outright deception. The reference to Bluff in the article would seem to back this up, at least in my opinion.
Is this correct and has there been any official word on the domains of the Toril pantheon?
Since you have D&D Insider, you should be able to access the new article in Dragon about Domains for the Deities of FR and Eberron. That should help (not that many of the matches are sensible; Oghma and Trickery my foot.)
I think perhaps one of the reasons trickery is in his domain is that trickery has often been the means by which knowlege is taken from, er.. gained from others, especially the powerful. In fact, in real world mytholgy my memory is saying that "trickery" was used to steal knowldge from the gods in some cases even if I can't name an example.
Prometheus was a wily titan whose name meant "Forethought"; he stole fire from the gods and gave it to mortals.
Prometheus was a wily titan whose name meant "Forethought"; he stole fire from the gods and gave it to mortals.
That makes me think of the Rifts game where they had a different story for what Prometheus "really" did that made Zeus angry enough to imprison him and (unless I am mixing this up with another tale...) have his liver eaten every day. In Rifts, it was stated that the fire story was a misnomer and that what he really did was teach magic to mankind which made them the "equals" of the gods and that made Zeus very angry. I think that is an interesting take.
Oh well, back to the conversation. Anyway, I have personally never had a problem with trickery being associated with Oghma but that is my opinion.
That makes me think of the Rifts game where they had a different story for what Prometheus "really" did that made Zeus angry enough to imprison him and (unless I am mixing this up with another tale...) have his liver eaten every day. In Rifts, it was stated that the fire story was a misnomer and that what he really did was teach magic to mankind which made them the "equals" of the gods and that made Zeus very angry. I think that is an interesting take.Oh well, back to the conversation. Anyway, I have personally never had a problem with trickery being associated with Oghma but that is my opinion.
Fire has always been associated with knowledge in many RL myth/folklore. It's the light that banishes the darkness of ignorance. It has many uses, but if careless will burn the wielder. :D
Oghma also had at least four other cleric domains in 3e. The issue is that of all the things Oghma may represent, trickery has the least going for it, if anything at all. Seeing as greater deities are only presented with three domains in 4e, the ones chosen should reflect major tenets of the faith. As I interpret it, trickery is at best tangential and at worst antithetical to Oghman doctrine. It boils down to opinion, but I think a stronger case can be made for trickery not fitting so well.
AFAIK lore does not point to Oghma as a trickster. Many bards are tricksters, and many bards worship Oghma, but that hardly makes Oghma a deity of trickery. Turns of phrase and witty song lyrics are represented quite adequately (imho) by the Skill domain.
We share the same sentiments, particularly the part I bolded.
Back in 1e, Oghma was god of bards; not sure what (if any) changes arose in 2e and 3e. In 4e, his description mentions that he has power over not only what is remembered, but what is to be forgotten. Between these two things, I can see trickery under Oghma as a form of sleight-of-hand and distraction/diversion - trickery in perhaps its most innocent form - as compared to outright deception. The reference to Bluff in the article would seem to back this up, at least in my opinion.
Personally, that sounds like it enters into Shar's territory. If things are forgotten, Shar gains power. Shar and Oghma are enemies, so it sounds like he's giving his enemy a gun when they started with knives. And I agree that where Oghma is concerned, the trickery would be rather innocent.