There is no Oerth is the 'world' and Toril is a different one?!
Where does the 'main' stuff take place if there are core gods but no core world?
And I heard a nasty rumour that Toril/Forgotten Realms will NOT be distinct from the other campaign settings...
whom are part of the Faerunean pantheon and others are part of Oerth.
There is no Oerth is the 'world' and Toril is a different one?!
Err, I don't understand this.
Where does the 'main' stuff take place if there are core gods but no core world?
Wherever the DM wants the game to take place.
The "core world" is essentially just a list of ideas that the designers want to emphasize in the new edition, and consider definitive.And I heard a nasty rumour that Toril/Forgotten Realms will NOT be distinct from the other campaign settings...
That's not true. Well, actually it's partially true, as the FR will apparently use the "core" cosmology, and the setting is being remade to conform to many of the new "core" design principles (ie. "make the world have lots of floating islands and other fantastical stuff")
-Like I said before, just don't think about it! It's easier that way! ;)
Are you calling me stupid?
Are you calling me stupid?
-Of course not. I am saying that things just make no sense, and you're better of not even worrying about it.
-Of course not. I am saying that things just make no sense, and you're better of not even worrying about it.
Sorry....oversensitive I guess.
You would think that this gobbledygook they are concocting will turn into something coherent....I am still waiting...
They have axed genuine alignment differences between dragons: now all are power hungry and greedy but the chromatic and metallic ones have different ways of being power hungry and greedy. Supposedly to focus more on personality. Whatever....
I may stop playing D&D alltogether if this pile of seeming fecalia actually turns out to be fecalia.
I am 30 and started playing when I was 11 years old. They may well lose a devout fan and customer...though I still may read the novels.
I may stop playing D&D alltogether if this pile of seeming fecalia actually turns out to be fecalia.
-There's no reason to do that. Just stick with 3e, or whatever system you currently use.
-There's no reason to do that. Just stick with 3e, or whatever system you currently use.
I have usually liked the canon and improvements up until now.
And I have usually changed little in them...that's why this is so disappointing...
I have usually liked the canon and improvements up until now.
-Me too. But, there's no reason to throw everything away, you know? Just ignore 4e Forgotten Realms, 4e rules, whatever, and continue chugging along using 3e, 2e, or whatever it is that you use.
I have something of a suspicion that the core world is actually Abeir, which would explain where the "core" dragonborn that are suddenly in Toril came from. I'm certain that this will never be confirmed as true, since it would go against the whole point of leaving the core world vague and implied rather than an actual campaign setting in its own right, but I'm going to secretly refer to the core world as Abeir until they get around to developing Abeir to the point that the connection definitely doesn't work.
Relevant Rich Baker post: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=215749
I agree with all of that - they need 'Abeir' to stay exactly as it is (undefined) because it IS an ongoing plot device that allows them to 'swich-out' parts of the setting whenever they feel like, or to make whatever changes are neccessary as new books with new races and classes are released.
Once they describe it, they are 'locked-in', which destroys the whole point of it's existance. Its the reason why they can basically re-write parts of the Realms without having to explain it in any sort of reasonable fashion.
Abeir, and its 'parent', the Spellplague, are just open-ended vehicles for change, nothing more. It must be nice, having such an open-ended gimmick to call upon now...
QFT
I agree with all of that - they need 'Abeir' to stay exactly as it is (undefined) because it IS an ongoing plot device that allows them to 'swich-out' parts of the setting whenever they feel like, or to make whatever changes are neccessary as new books with new races and classes are released.
Once they describe it, they are 'locked-in', which destroys the whole point of it's existance. Its the reason why they can basically re-write parts of the Realms with without having to explain it in any sort of reasonable fashion.
Abeir, and its 'parent', the Spellplague, are just open-ended vehicles for change, nothing more. It must be nice, having such an open-ended gimmick to call upon now...
I agree. Granted it is fiction and fantasy but adding in events whilly nilly simply to accomodate whatever the designers want to do takes away from any sense of realism and smacks of gimmikery...
It is not good.Abeir, and its 'parent', the Spellplague, are just open-ended vehicles for change, nothing more. It must be nice, having such an open-ended gimmick to call upon now...
Wasn't that the Scarlet Witch for Marvel? Or Superboy Prime for DC? I seemed to recall them being a good excuse to change things... Oh, and Skrulls. Just watch, that's what Marvel's gonna use next. Skrulls.
Superboy, not so much.
I actually felt sorry for him.
On Topic:
When will major franchises learn that changing canon in a brand ALWAYS results in a loss of fans?
They have axed genuine alignment differences between dragons: now all are power hungry and greedy but the chromatic and metallic ones have different ways of being power hungry and greedy. Supposedly to focus more on personality.
Just to let you know, the rationale here is really more about making it so that any dragon (chromatic or metallic) is likely to be an opponent of the players. That is, you can't see a gold dragon and think, "OK, this is a good guy! We won't be fighting him."
Now, that being said, I don't agree entirely with this rationale, but the designers have said more than once that they want less creature types who are "always good." They believe a creature is more "useful" (that is, "fightable") if it can be of any alignment.
I have something of a suspicion that the core world is actually Abeir, which would explain where the "core" dragonborn that are suddenly in Toril came from. I'm certain that this will never be confirmed as true, since it would go against the whole point of leaving the core world vague and implied rather than an actual campaign setting in its own right, but I'm going to secretly refer to the core world as Abeir until they get around to developing Abeir to the point that the connection definitely doesn't work.
Well, this is a nitpick, but the FR dragonborn were mentioned as having hated dragons on their homeworld and having been constantly at war with them--however, no such thing is mentioned in the preview books for the "core" dragonborn, and in fact, their history suggests the opposite (ancient dragonborn happily served their larger kin).
Well, this is a nitpick, but the FR dragonborn were mentioned as having hated dragons on their homeworld and having been constantly at war with them--however, no such thing is mentioned in the preview books for the "core" dragonborn, and in fact, their history suggests the opposite (ancient dragonborn happily served their larger kin).
Interesting. I don't think that's a deathknell for my theory (since an isolated nation of dragonborn in the "points of light" world could have been at war with dragons even if this isn't the larger trend) but I wasn't aware of either fact that you pointed out. Thank you.
Interesting. I don't think that's a deathknell for my theory (since an isolated nation of dragonborn in the "points of light" world could have been at war with dragons even if this isn't the larger trend) but I wasn't aware of either fact that you pointed out. Thank you.
You're welcome.
And you're right, that little tidbit isn't a "deathknell" for your story.On Topic:
When will major franchises learn that changing canon in a brand ALWAYS results in a loss of fans?
-Not necessarily. When there is a change that is needed, or is 'good', this result does not necessarily happen. I can't cite an example right now, but it's only logical that it happen like that. When dealing with absolutes like that is, there is always bound to be an exception, thus 'ruining' everything.
-Not necessarily. When there is a change that is needed, or is 'good', this result does not necessarily happen. I can't cite an example right now, but it's only logical that it happen like that. When dealing with absolutes like that is, there is always bound to be an exception, thus 'ruining' everything.
Maybe companies should put it to a vote. Have up a bunch of different ways they could pull of an update, and let the fanbase vote on which one they like more. Kinda like DC let the fans vote on whether or not the second Robin should live or not, he died, btw.
Interesting. I don't think that's a deathknell for my theory (since an isolated nation of dragonborn in the "points of light" world could have been at war with dragons even if this isn't the larger trend) but I wasn't aware of either fact that you pointed out. Thank you.
Note: On page 154 of the GHotR, the first entry for year 1374, we see an obvious 'in' for the Dragonborn on Toril, and it also implies that their will be TWO distinct groups (Both Bahamut and Tiamet instruct their followers to gather up "some form of draconic eggs").
Strangely, that obvious blurb doesn't apply to either version of the Dragonborn story, unless they plan on applying the 'core' one to Bahamut's followers, and the FR one (Abeir) to Tiamet's....
Of course, it could just be another case of one (WotC) hand not knowing what the other is doing... AGAIN....
Of course, it could just be another case of one one (WotC) hand not knowing what the other is doing... AGAIN....
Not again, Markus. Still. Get it right.
I hope they can get their s__t together by the time the FRCG comes out.
Of course, if they are relying on the editors to pick out all the inconsistencies, WE'RE DOOMED.
ATTENTION DESIGNERS!!!: Please allow George Krashos to get his hands on the complete FRCG with a MONTH to go over it with a fine tooth comb... PLEASE!
I think he could correct most of the inconsistencies all by himself.
Maybe companies should put it to a vote. Have up a bunch of different ways they could pull of an update, and let the fanbase vote on which one they like more. Kinda like DC let the fans vote on whether or not the second Robin should live or not, he died, btw.
-That'd be cool, but...I don't see it happening.
Of course, it could just be another case of one (WotC) hand not knowing what the other is doing... AGAIN....
-I, sadly, honestly believe this is the case. As I've said before, with the introduction of Gleemax, with the 'change of jobs' with the WizOs, with the 'coronation' of GamerZer0, the CM/CS debacles, the introduction of 4e, and the various journals on any and all of the subjects, the brain (ha, the pun) oftentimes does not know what the hands are doing. Too often, for my liking, if I were in charge of things.
ATTENTION DESIGNERS!!!: Please allow George Krashos to get his hands on the complete FRCG with a MONTH to go over it with a fine tooth comb... PLEASE!
I think he could correct most of the inconsistencies all by himself.
-George Krashos must be stopped!
-That'd be cool, but...I don't see it happening.
-I, sadly, honestly believe this is the case. As I've said before, with the introduction of Gleemax, with the 'change of jobs' with the WizOs, with the 'coronation' of GamerZer0...
The way you wrote that was funny.
I was wondering who he was, anyway (I know he exists, but who is he?).
-George Krashos must be stopped!
Not before he fixes the FRCS!!!
Of course, that might be like giviing someone a 'death sentence'.
Hope he has a strong heart... and stomache. :P
I was wondering who he was, anyway (I know he exists, but who is he?).
-Hmm...How to put it...Think of it like this. Before Gleemax and everything, the boards were ruled by a Council of WizO Elders. Now, the WizOs are mainly just figureheads, who have only a fraction of the power they once had, while G0 is the Czar, having near absolute power and authority.
Hope he has a strong heart... and stomache. :P
-Something tells me that, regardless of those two attributes, he has a thick and full beard.
-That'd be cool, but...I don't see it happening.
-I, sadly, honestly believe this is the case. As I've said before, with the introduction of Gleemax, with the 'change of jobs' with the WizOs, with the 'coronation' of GamerZer0...
The way you wrote that was funny.
I was wondering who he was, anyway (I know he exists, but who is he?).
"One rule to ring them all..."
Probably, now a civil war between the WizOs and the fans will give him full authority to take direct control over WotC and will rename it to the First Wizardry Empire, all WizOs will be declared betrayers to the cause, one of them will ascend as G0's right hand with a full black armor pursuing his former companions and FULLY CONTROLLING ALL FUTURE 4E RELEASES!!!
Hey, that's a joke... don't take it seriously.
I don't wanna be accused of violating the code of conduct.
I don't wanna be accused of violating the code of conduct.
-Your punishment depends on who you are, apparently. Some people violate it once, and get banned, while other people have more violations than posts, and yet, somehow, haven't had their posting rights revoked. Go figure. I'll just say that, "in the old days", it wouldn't be like that.
-Hmm...How to put it...Think of it like this. Before Gleemax and everything, the boards were ruled by a Council of WizO Elders. Now, the WizOs are mainly just figureheads, who have only a fraction of the power they once had, while G0 is the Czar, having near absolute power and authority.
I see.
I wonder where he came from, though. Was he once a WizO?
-Your punishment depends on who you are, apparently. Some people violate it once, and get banned, while other people have more violations than posts, and yet, somehow, haven't had their posting rights revoked.
I've noticed that, believe me...
Now, that being said, I don't agree entirely with this rationale, but the designers have said more than once that they want less creature types who are "always good." They believe a creature is more "useful" (that is, "fightable") if it can be of any alignment.
Thats my one major concern about 4e, that the focus of everything will be on combat. Will there be room for puzzle-solving, much less role playing? Or will D&D devolve into a character being nothing more than a collection of stats and powers?
Thats my one major concern about 4e, that the focus of everything will be on combat. Will there be room for puzzle-solving, much less role playing?
-There were hardly every rules for roleplaying. That the rules don't mention it doesn't mean that it's absent. Rather, it's implied. If I recall the Player's Handbook only had a few pages talking about 'extraneous' things, like a character's history, personality, and so on.
Or will D&D devolve into a character being nothing more than a collection of stats and powers?
-Mechanically, that's all a character already is.
-Your punishment depends on who you are, apparently. Some people violate it once, and get banned, while other people have more violations than posts, and yet, somehow, haven't had their posting rights revoked. Go figure. I'll just say that, "in the old days", it wouldn't be like that.
Hey... maybe it's true that we have
(being him GamerZero or not) walking around. If you are an active member of the Alliance to Restore the Weave, you would possibly get banned.Ah, and LK, don't feel yourself upset for this:
!= (does not necessary mean) The Archwizard... or possibly yes? :DThats my one major concern about 4e, that the focus of everything will be on combat. Will there be room for puzzle-solving, much less role playing? Or will D&D devolve into a character being nothing more than a collection of stats and powers?
As LK said, I think the apparent focus on combat mostly has to do with the fact that role-playing doesn't require rules.
I'd be surprised if the 4E core books didn't address role-playing and puzzle-solving in some fashion.
-It should. You know, I should copy that little icon, and modify it to be me.