The Paladin is pretty obstinate, so I have a feeling that she won't just convert to Torm or Amaunator when she finds out her god of choice is dead. So my question is, could a Paladin who worships a dead god still be granted divine abilities from the deceased deity?
I am thinking that what I might do is not let her use any divine abilities for the first few sessions. But if after that time she still worships Tyr, let her receive divine powers again from the dead god.
Do you think this makes sense? Should I allow a cleric or paladin to worship a dead god and be able to cast prayers/use divine abilities after doing a 'test of faith'?
-In 4e, the rule with Clerics and Paladins is that once they are ordained, they're "set" for life. In 3e, this wasn't the case, but since you are updating from 3e to 4e, you can just make it the case. The Paladin received her holy orders and such in [insert 3e date]. After stepping though the portal to 1479 DR, she still has her powers. Tyr invested them into her in [insert 3e date], and even though he perished in the in between, as per 4e rules, the holy power within the Paladin is still doing fine.
There might be a great deal of fun to be had for the Dm who decides that not all followers of Dead gods moved on at the death/disappearance of their Deity. Would they perhaps form monasteries dedicated in putting down the legends and edicts of their god? Would they trying to carry on his work even without his blessings? And what would they think when after 6 generations a true Paladin of Tyr appeared from out of nowhere?
Just some ideas to get some thoughts moving :D
There might be a great deal of fun to be had for the Dm who decides that not all followers of Dead gods moved on at the death/disappearance of their Deity.
-It'd be wholly unrealistic to say that they did. Some, sure, but not all.
Tyr invested them into her in [insert 3e date], and even though he perished in the in between, as per 4e rules, the holy power within the Paladin is still doing fine.
I don't think that works. Tyr is the source of the power. If the source is gone, you can't draw power from it.
The PHB rule talks that you don't get teh pwoer 'directly' from your god - but you still get it from him. What the distinction is is that a god cannot regulate whether he gives you power it not - so if you use it against his ethos he can't stop you. But once he is dead, he does nto supply power at all, and so you won't be able to use spells any more.
At least, as I understood, this is how it works in FR.
Dead Deities The constant clash of deities also ensures a steady supply of dead deities whose temples now lie in ruin about Toril. Moreover, death doesn't neccessarily end the career of a deity of Toril. The possibility of resurrection always exists, as evidenced by the recent return of Bane. Small cults dedicated to the resurrection of one lost deity or another appear everywhere in Faerun. Sometimes the deity is beyond the reach of such cultists or never existed except in myth, and its adherants receive no divine backing in their endeavors. Other times, a dead deity retains enough power to provide divine backing to a handful of worshippers. Occasionally, another deity masquerades in the guise of a dead deity, in hopes of expanding its portfolio. Some dead human deities who retain a handful of adherents include Amaunator (a Netherese sun god), Bhaal (the former deity of murder), Ibrandul (a deity of caverns slain by Shar during the Time of Troubles), Moander (a deity of corruption slain by Finder Wyvernspur), and Myrkul (former god of death whose remaining essence infuses an artifact called the Crown of Horns).
So based on this and the Ordination rules of 4E I'm going to rule in my campaign that my Paladin of Tyr is still a Paladin of Tyr and can use all her divine abilities. But she is probably the only one out there unless there are other time traveling/very old clerics or paladins out there.
There might be other Priests still devoted to Tyr out there, but there probably aren't many of them, and if they weren't ordained as Priests before the spellplague, they won't have any divine powers. (LOVE your idea Thunair, I definitely want to have my Paladin meet a crazy old Priest who still worships Tyr even though he doesn't get any prayers answered)
And what would they think when after 6 generations a true Paladin of Tyr appeared from out of nowhere? :D
Awesome!
like you said let her paladin powers for a few games and then start cutting back on the higher powers and make it set in that her god is truely dead here. but then give her a path to follow, in the "Lost empires of faerun book" there is a feat called servent of the fallen, if i am getting it right....it lets clerics and i don't see why not a paladin to continue to get spells and powers from a dead god. they just beleave that much in them in their gone god.....
with this the paladin can try to quest for restoring her lost god.
have fun an play long friends
Have the player go for a quest to revive his god in epic, and then Tyr leaves to his home plane(as he is not native of faerun), probably taking the player together to fight alongside his god in the ragnarok.
Perfect end for demigod epic destiny also.
I don't like much nordic stuff, but this I would love it, and certally would be a memorable end of a campaing
I've have see in some other threat the idea of Tyr leaving faerun instead of dying. You could have the better of both worlds with a similar idea:
Have the player go for a quest to revive his god in epic, and then Tyr leaves to his home plane(as he is not native of faerun), probably taking the player together to fight alongside his god in the ragnarok.
I completely forgot about that all the time.
So just because the deity's torilian aspect is dead or lost or whatever, doesn't mean that he's not 'alive' anymore and that you can't worship him. After all, Tyr is an interloper deity, so it could as well be that he simply left Faerun behind. Or, if he's dead, that his norse aspect (the one with the intermediate rank) is still there.
i didn't check the paladin but i assume it's the case. Cleric in 4th are given power not by the god, but by the fate they have in him.
i guess the same apply to the paladin. But your paladin jumping 100 years and found out his god is dead could either desperate him or the inverse, he could have a greater fate in him that he will come back someday.
He could pair up with other paladin an convert them to his ideal. He could ascend to demi-god with other paladins that followed his path and also became demi-gods, and from there they could form "The Great Circle of Tyr".
I'm pushing it far but it's realistic in d&d world :P
-In 4e, the rule with Clerics and Paladins is that once they are ordained, they're "set" for life. In 3e, this wasn't the case, but since you are updating from 3e to 4e, you can just make it the case. The Paladin received her holy orders and such in [insert 3e date]. After stepping though the portal to 1479 DR, she still has her powers. Tyr invested them into her in [insert 3e date], and even though he perished in the in between, as per 4e rules, the holy power within the Paladin is still doing fine.
But in this case, would eh gain new pwoers when he gained new levels? After all, new powers are bestowed upon the Pallie by Tyr.
But in this case, would eh gain new pwoers when he gained new levels? After all, new powers are bestowed upon the Pallie by Tyr.
...and @OP: I think the design intent is to view ordination as the planting or awakening of a divine seed in the individual by the deity. In my game, I would say that most divine characters in the world who have a deity that dies either A) convert to another deity and thus have their inner seeds transformed or B) stay on (and level up) as a last trace of the dead deity's influence in the world. (Man, kind of a bummer, that!) I would not allow ordination rites of a dead deity to invest new divine characters except in very special cases (resurrection cult, servant of the fallen, etc.).