Anyone else think Rat Swarms got ripped off? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Anyone else think Rat Swarms got ripped off?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Nadezhda
Oct 21, 2010 22:49:25
Rat Swarm has a Novice Power that does the same thing that the Android one does....

Except less damage, and it's an Encounter, not an at-will.

Poor player who got Rat Swarm also rolled up Empath, so 2 at-wills, and a hard time working out how his swarm of empathicly charged rats can weild a weapon, rather than just Swarming a target every turn.

I ended up ruling it as an at-will >_<
#2
jedi123
Oct 21, 2010 23:02:59 Well the rat swarm's isn't as easily broken (as it can move or be forcebly moved without canceling). I'm not saying this is a fair trade off, just that it is not the same power only lower damage and less often. There is a chance that other facts are supposed to balance it out but not sure.
#3
rampant
Oct 22, 2010 0:21:29 Ok since Rats is a dex based origin that means you've got a good chance with light weapons.

So give each of your rats a toothpick and let them go to town.
#4
Nadezhda
Oct 22, 2010 0:34:00
Ok since Rats is a dex based origin that means you've got a good chance with light weapons.

So give each of your rats a toothpick and let them go to town.

And Androids are int based, good with the same weapons. I think the rat power needed a bit more of a boost

#5
Kaerlyzar
Oct 22, 2010 1:00:03 We play rat swarms as a hivemind collective. Two or three rats "wield" a gun or hand weapon, while a couple others hide behind a suit of armour being carried by the group. Gear is either hauled by a single rat, or miniature versions are used.

When the rat swarm is on the move (travelling outside of an encounter), they pop out small little covered wagons being pulled by cockroaches and form a wagon train (wagon and draft horse was rolled for starting gear).

When they get attacked while on the move, they form the wagons into a small circle and defend from there like so many old wild west movies.

As the rat swarm was taking damage, any amount of damage would kill one member of the swarm. "Dammit, the bastards got Moe!"

Man are they a blast to play!
#6
FlashbackJon
Oct 22, 2010 1:10:47 The Android has to immobilize himself (more or less) to get the benefit. That's a pretty significant disadvantage compared to the Rat Swarm's power. (Also, the rat swarm's traits are pretty damn substantial.)
#7
uhf
Oct 22, 2010 1:18:02 Plants are jealous...
#8
ExcalibursZone
Oct 22, 2010 1:27:54 Rat Swarm/Plant...Plant Swarm! Someone made of Venus Flytraps...wooo. Poison Ivy would have wet dreams...
#9
Tony_Vargas
Oct 22, 2010 1:39:25 The Rat Swarm origin is supposed to spend much of it time heaped into a vaguely humanoid shape capable of wearing armor and weilding weapons.

The Rat Swarm Novice power has a couple of slight advantages over the Android one - it immobilizes to the end of your next turn, while the Android's is start of next turn; and as mentioned, the Android's is broken if he doesn't stay adjacent (it's a lot like a grab). That doesn't add up to encounter vs at-will in my book, either, though, and I'm also allowing the Rat Swarm to use it's Novice power as an at will. (Actually, I'm just letting all the novice powers be at will, I know brickbat is pretty potent, for instance, but this is GW).
#10
Chandrak
Oct 22, 2010 9:47:22
Poor player who got Rat Swarm also rolled up Empath, so 2 at-wills, and a hard time working out how his swarm of empathicly charged rats can weild a weapon, rather than just Swarming a target every turn.

'Weapon' is a pretty subjective term in GW. Your player needs to work on his creativity.
Here's some suggestions:

1. Your Rat Swarm flows over and around itself, taking a humanoid form of densly packed rats that work together to support traditional weapons.

2. You are a swarm of tiny humanoid rats who wield sewing needles, toothpicks, sharpened sticks, other such small pointy things.

3. Your melee weapon is. . . you! The swarm sends out a psuedopod of small biting rodents.

4. Your ranged weapon is . . . you! Together the rats labor to hurl forth a single member of the swarm, which flies through the air to strike your enemy in the face. It bites him, then runs back to the swarm!
#11
serok42
Oct 22, 2010 12:16:53

2. You are a swarm of tiny humanoid rats who wield sewing needles, toothpicks, sharpened sticks, other such small pointy things.

This makes me think of a swarm of rats wielding those little plastic swords you get in coctails.

Man, Rat Swarm is my favorite origin. There is just so much you can come up with for it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Nadezhda Oct 21, 2010 22:49:25	Rat Swarm has a Novice Power that does the same thing that the Android one does.... Except less damage, and it's an Encounter, not an at-will. Poor player who got Rat Swarm also rolled up Empath, so 2 at-wills, and a hard time working out how his swarm of empathicly charged rats can weild a weapon, rather than just Swarming a target every turn. I ended up ruling it as an at-will >_<
#2 jedi123 Oct 21, 2010 23:02:59	Well the rat swarm's isn't as easily broken (as it can move or be forcebly moved without canceling). I'm not saying this is a fair trade off, just that it is not the same power only lower damage and less often. There is a chance that other facts are supposed to balance it out but not sure.
#3 rampant Oct 22, 2010 0:21:29	Ok since Rats is a dex based origin that means you've got a good chance with light weapons. So give each of your rats a toothpick and let them go to town.
#4 Nadezhda Oct 22, 2010 0:34:00	Ok since Rats is a dex based origin that means you've got a good chance with light weapons. So give each of your rats a toothpick and let them go to town. And Androids are int based, good with the same weapons. I think the rat power needed a bit more of a boost
#5 Kaerlyzar Oct 22, 2010 1:00:03	We play rat swarms as a hivemind collective. Two or three rats "wield" a gun or hand weapon, while a couple others hide behind a suit of armour being carried by the group. Gear is either hauled by a single rat, or miniature versions are used. When the rat swarm is on the move (travelling outside of an encounter), they pop out small little covered wagons being pulled by cockroaches and form a wagon train (wagon and draft horse was rolled for starting gear). When they get attacked while on the move, they form the wagons into a small circle and defend from there like so many old wild west movies. As the rat swarm was taking damage, any amount of damage would kill one member of the swarm. "Dammit, the bastards got Moe!" Man are they a blast to play!
#6 FlashbackJon Oct 22, 2010 1:10:47	The Android has to immobilize himself (more or less) to get the benefit. That's a pretty significant disadvantage compared to the Rat Swarm's power. (Also, the rat swarm's traits are pretty damn substantial.)
#7 uhf Oct 22, 2010 1:18:02	Plants are jealous...
#8 ExcalibursZone Oct 22, 2010 1:27:54	Rat Swarm/Plant...Plant Swarm! Someone made of Venus Flytraps...wooo. Poison Ivy would have wet dreams...
#9 Tony_Vargas Oct 22, 2010 1:39:25	The Rat Swarm origin is supposed to spend much of it time heaped into a vaguely humanoid shape capable of wearing armor and weilding weapons. The Rat Swarm Novice power has a couple of slight advantages over the Android one - it immobilizes to the end of your next turn, while the Android's is start of next turn; and as mentioned, the Android's is broken if he doesn't stay adjacent (it's a lot like a grab). That doesn't add up to encounter vs at-will in my book, either, though, and I'm also allowing the Rat Swarm to use it's Novice power as an at will. (Actually, I'm just letting all the novice powers be at will, I know brickbat is pretty potent, for instance, but this is GW).
#10 Chandrak Oct 22, 2010 9:47:22	Poor player who got Rat Swarm also rolled up Empath, so 2 at-wills, and a hard time working out how his swarm of empathicly charged rats can weild a weapon, rather than just Swarming a target every turn. 'Weapon' is a pretty subjective term in GW. Your player needs to work on his creativity. Here's some suggestions: 1. Your Rat Swarm flows over and around itself, taking a humanoid form of densly packed rats that work together to support traditional weapons. 2. You are a swarm of tiny humanoid rats who wield sewing needles, toothpicks, sharpened sticks, other such small pointy things. 3. Your melee weapon is. . . you! The swarm sends out a psuedopod of small biting rodents. 4. Your ranged weapon is . . . you! Together the rats labor to hurl forth a single member of the swarm, which flies through the air to strike your enemy in the face. It bites him, then runs back to the swarm!
#11 serok42 Oct 22, 2010 12:16:53	2. You are a swarm of tiny humanoid rats who wield sewing needles, toothpicks, sharpened sticks, other such small pointy things. This makes me think of a swarm of rats wielding those little plastic swords you get in coctails. Man, Rat Swarm is my favorite origin. There is just so much you can come up with for it.