Gamma World & D&D How Bad Could It Be? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Gamma World & D&D How Bad Could It Be?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Negflar2099
Jan 20, 2011 12:40:02 I just got the game and although I haven't had a chance to play it yet I find I already want to tweak it (I know, I'm sick and I need help). The big tweak I'm interested in is combining D&D and Gamma World (Eladrin Wizards and Radiated Cockroach Swarms oh my). I thought there would be a zillion posts about this but I couldn't find one so in the tradition of lazy forum searchers everywhere I'm starting my own.

What I want to know is how could you make this work? Presumably a 5th level monster represents the same difficulty to a 5th level Gamma World party as it would to a 5th level D&D party. That would mean that at least theoretically D&D characters and GW characters of equal level should be of equal power. GW characters get to add in their full level to damage but they don't get feats. They get origin powers but they don't get race and class powers. So on and so on.

But that still leaves a few issues that I'd like your input on. First should I give Gamma World action points or is that a D&D only thing? What about healing surges? I imagine if I give GW characters healing surges than I would have to make taking a Second Wind a Standard Action as it is in D&D. Does that seem right? What about the treasure parcel system? There's no telling how the Omega Tech fits in at what level so how do I even plan for that? Should I?

What does everyone think? Has anyone tried this? How did it work out?

Thanks ahead of time.
#2
FlashbackJon
Jan 20, 2011 12:55:57 It used to come up quite a bit, but there's been less discussion of it recently. If you dig you can typically find some stuff. Some thoughts off the top of my head:

GW characters are PRETTY MUCH all strikers, with the occasional defender or controller type built in. This doesn't necessarily affect anything but it is probably worth noting.

Action points wouldn't break anything, I don't think.

It would be easier to add healing surges in than to leave them out or remove them, so probably the best option there. As such, mutants wouldn't heal to full with a short rest but rather use their surges appropriately.

I could go either way on Second Wind. It might simply be a benefit mutants have. If they don't have a leader, they won't have any way to use surges and will NEED the minor action second wind.

Treasure parcels is an interesting phenomenon. Mutants have their enhancement bonuses built in, so I would HIGHLY ADVISE using the Inherent Bonuses system from DMG2/DSCS.

I would have Traditional D&D characters use the GW weapons list (complete with Oraibi's Weapon Shoppe), even if they still use their own basic attacks. This gives them a little more freedom in choosing weapon feats and there is some potential for imbalance there, but next to GW mutants, it won't really matter.

Omega Tech: hand it out with parcels, to all characters, or leave it out.

Again, I haven't tried it, so let us know!
#3
jimalcoatl
Feb 02, 2011 0:31:09 I was actually thinking of combining GW and D&D characters for a game based on the old console RPG Chrono Trigger. With the prehistoric and future charaters being built with GW and he "modern" and "medieval" ones being built with D&D.

To me it looks like it would be easier to make GW fall in line with D&D, especially if there is a Leader class in the party. So, I would take out the minor second wind, and add action points. Or alternately keep the minor second wind but only give D&D characters action points.

If there was no Leader class I'd be more inclined to do minor as a second wind for all characters and keep action points. I'd have to come up with a new racial power for dwarves if I did that, but that shouldn't be too hard, and would only be an issue if someone wanted to play a dwarf.

For gear I'd probably use inherent bonuses for D&D characters. I'd allow only D&D characters to use magic items and only GW characters to use Omega tech. With it being based on the Chrono Trigger world I'd just chalk that up to the key difference between elemental characters (D&D) and Shadow characters (GW). When I gave out treasure it would be level X magic item, or pick an Omega Tech so characters could still decide on who gets what gear.

Not sure on the D&D characters using gamma world weapons. I'd probably try it with each using the weapons of their respective game and if the D&D strikers were lagging behind the GW characters I'd change it up.
#4
sirkaikillah
Feb 02, 2011 1:18:32 Another thing to consider, is rate of advancement. Gw cuts the xp needed to level up by half i.e. it takes 500xp to make level 2 instead of 1000xp.

Also, Gw classess advance thier defenses and attack bonuses every level, where a DnD character increases the defenses and attack bonuses every other level i.e. 2,4,6, etc.

In my experience alpha mutations and omega tech are the most important thing for pcs to survive in the GW setting. More than one encounter was decided by the effective use of either an alpha mutation or omega tech. I would guess both would make the difference for a GW pc in a DnD setting. So incorparting both alpha mutations and omega tech for GW pcs should be important.

I also disagree with the assessment that Gw origins are all strikers. The Yeti is obviously a defender with a critical that applies a -5 to attack rolls if the target attacks any other creature other than the Yeti. The empath makes a good leader, a third level empath/ radioactive is a fabulous leader with an aura that removes CA, Vitality transfer that weakens an enemy and grants temp hp, and Hawking Portal which will teleport you and a few allies and heal hp. I think ability scores will determine who tanks and who stands behind the front line and who is flanking more than just character origins at times. My point being, it is not that easy to pidgeon hole GW pcs into DnD combat roles. Combat will play different as a group of pcs will have a smattering of powers and abilities crossing the traditional combat roles of DnD 4e.
#5
Chandrak
Feb 02, 2011 2:26:10 I think the biggest thing to consider when combining 4E and GW is what system you want to go with - 4E, Gamma World, or a blend of 'use which rules your characters come from'.

The biggest thing I think to consider is the sheer power of Alpha Mutations. Some of those are SERIOUSLY powerful, especially some of the ones that grant extra turns., like Duality or Hyperactive. If you havent been buying cards, Hyperactive essentially lets you act twice each round until you get another Alpha Flux - nothing in 4E comes anywhere near that kind of ability unless your players are serious powergamers.

TBH, the 'balanced' method would be to have 4E players make Gamma World characters using the races and classes as a framework. It would be a relatively easy proposition to make origins for each race and class and combine them as you see fit. Heck, we've got almost 80 Community origins in the custom origin thread already - just goes to show how easy it is to make new ones. Doing that puts all characters on an even playing field in terms of power levels as long as you tweak the 4E abilities to match similar strengths. Alpha Mutations could be class power-based - easy enough to give each player a d8 or d10 table to roll on for class powers to come up.

On the combination side, as I said before the biggest issue is the Alphas - I suppose you could just monitor things and see how it goes, make sure no players were using the big hitter powers at a low level or something like that.

On the level growth side, I'm not sure how things work out comparing the two systems. GW characters are more like monsters in that their damage, attacks, and defenses are level based, so it might work out alright, but youd need to do some comparisons between GW and 4E monsters to see how things were. It was also pointed out that GW levels faster. . though thats an easy enough fix, just set them to the 4E side.
#6
cazra
Feb 02, 2011 8:44:30
If you havent been buying cards, Hyperactive essentially lets you act twice each round until you get another Alpha Flux - nothing in 4E comes anywhere near that kind of ability unless your players are serious powergamers.

For anyone who doesn't want to spend extra money on cards, Troll and Toad lists the text for all of the booster pack Gamma World cards. My group just made proxies of them to put in our decks.

trollandtoad.com/D&D-and-Other-RPGs/6192...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Negflar2099 Jan 20, 2011 12:40:02	I just got the game and although I haven't had a chance to play it yet I find I already want to tweak it (I know, I'm sick and I need help). The big tweak I'm interested in is combining D&D and Gamma World (Eladrin Wizards and Radiated Cockroach Swarms oh my). I thought there would be a zillion posts about this but I couldn't find one so in the tradition of lazy forum searchers everywhere I'm starting my own. What I want to know is how could you make this work? Presumably a 5th level monster represents the same difficulty to a 5th level Gamma World party as it would to a 5th level D&D party. That would mean that at least theoretically D&D characters and GW characters of equal level should be of equal power. GW characters get to add in their full level to damage but they don't get feats. They get origin powers but they don't get race and class powers. So on and so on. But that still leaves a few issues that I'd like your input on. First should I give Gamma World action points or is that a D&D only thing? What about healing surges? I imagine if I give GW characters healing surges than I would have to make taking a Second Wind a Standard Action as it is in D&D. Does that seem right? What about the treasure parcel system? There's no telling how the Omega Tech fits in at what level so how do I even plan for that? Should I? What does everyone think? Has anyone tried this? How did it work out? Thanks ahead of time.
#2 FlashbackJon Jan 20, 2011 12:55:57	It used to come up quite a bit, but there's been less discussion of it recently. If you dig you can typically find some stuff. Some thoughts off the top of my head: GW characters are PRETTY MUCH all strikers, with the occasional defender or controller type built in. This doesn't necessarily affect anything but it is probably worth noting. Action points wouldn't break anything, I don't think. It would be easier to add healing surges in than to leave them out or remove them, so probably the best option there. As such, mutants wouldn't heal to full with a short rest but rather use their surges appropriately. I could go either way on Second Wind. It might simply be a benefit mutants have. If they don't have a leader, they won't have any way to use surges and will NEED the minor action second wind. Treasure parcels is an interesting phenomenon. Mutants have their enhancement bonuses built in, so I would HIGHLY ADVISE using the Inherent Bonuses system from DMG2/DSCS. I would have Traditional D&D characters use the GW weapons list (complete with Oraibi's Weapon Shoppe), even if they still use their own basic attacks. This gives them a little more freedom in choosing weapon feats and there is some potential for imbalance there, but next to GW mutants, it won't really matter. Omega Tech: hand it out with parcels, to all characters, or leave it out. Again, I haven't tried it, so let us know!
#3 jimalcoatl Feb 02, 2011 0:31:09	I was actually thinking of combining GW and D&D characters for a game based on the old console RPG Chrono Trigger. With the prehistoric and future charaters being built with GW and he "modern" and "medieval" ones being built with D&D. To me it looks like it would be easier to make GW fall in line with D&D, especially if there is a Leader class in the party. So, I would take out the minor second wind, and add action points. Or alternately keep the minor second wind but only give D&D characters action points. If there was no Leader class I'd be more inclined to do minor as a second wind for all characters and keep action points. I'd have to come up with a new racial power for dwarves if I did that, but that shouldn't be too hard, and would only be an issue if someone wanted to play a dwarf. For gear I'd probably use inherent bonuses for D&D characters. I'd allow only D&D characters to use magic items and only GW characters to use Omega tech. With it being based on the Chrono Trigger world I'd just chalk that up to the key difference between elemental characters (D&D) and Shadow characters (GW). When I gave out treasure it would be level X magic item, or pick an Omega Tech so characters could still decide on who gets what gear. Not sure on the D&D characters using gamma world weapons. I'd probably try it with each using the weapons of their respective game and if the D&D strikers were lagging behind the GW characters I'd change it up.
#4 sirkaikillah Feb 02, 2011 1:18:32	Another thing to consider, is rate of advancement. Gw cuts the xp needed to level up by half i.e. it takes 500xp to make level 2 instead of 1000xp. Also, Gw classess advance thier defenses and attack bonuses every level, where a DnD character increases the defenses and attack bonuses every other level i.e. 2,4,6, etc. In my experience alpha mutations and omega tech are the most important thing for pcs to survive in the GW setting. More than one encounter was decided by the effective use of either an alpha mutation or omega tech. I would guess both would make the difference for a GW pc in a DnD setting. So incorparting both alpha mutations and omega tech for GW pcs should be important. I also disagree with the assessment that Gw origins are all strikers. The Yeti is obviously a defender with a critical that applies a -5 to attack rolls if the target attacks any other creature other than the Yeti. The empath makes a good leader, a third level empath/ radioactive is a fabulous leader with an aura that removes CA, Vitality transfer that weakens an enemy and grants temp hp, and Hawking Portal which will teleport you and a few allies and heal hp. I think ability scores will determine who tanks and who stands behind the front line and who is flanking more than just character origins at times. My point being, it is not that easy to pidgeon hole GW pcs into DnD combat roles. Combat will play different as a group of pcs will have a smattering of powers and abilities crossing the traditional combat roles of DnD 4e.
#5 Chandrak Feb 02, 2011 2:26:10	I think the biggest thing to consider when combining 4E and GW is what system you want to go with - 4E, Gamma World, or a blend of 'use which rules your characters come from'. The biggest thing I think to consider is the sheer power of Alpha Mutations. Some of those are SERIOUSLY powerful, especially some of the ones that grant extra turns., like Duality or Hyperactive. If you havent been buying cards, Hyperactive essentially lets you act twice each round until you get another Alpha Flux - nothing in 4E comes anywhere near that kind of ability unless your players are serious powergamers. TBH, the 'balanced' method would be to have 4E players make Gamma World characters using the races and classes as a framework. It would be a relatively easy proposition to make origins for each race and class and combine them as you see fit. Heck, we've got almost 80 Community origins in the custom origin thread already - just goes to show how easy it is to make new ones. Doing that puts all characters on an even playing field in terms of power levels as long as you tweak the 4E abilities to match similar strengths. Alpha Mutations could be class power-based - easy enough to give each player a d8 or d10 table to roll on for class powers to come up. On the combination side, as I said before the biggest issue is the Alphas - I suppose you could just monitor things and see how it goes, make sure no players were using the big hitter powers at a low level or something like that. On the level growth side, I'm not sure how things work out comparing the two systems. GW characters are more like monsters in that their damage, attacks, and defenses are level based, so it might work out alright, but youd need to do some comparisons between GW and 4E monsters to see how things were. It was also pointed out that GW levels faster. . though thats an easy enough fix, just set them to the 4E side.
#6 cazra Feb 02, 2011 8:44:30	If you havent been buying cards, Hyperactive essentially lets you act twice each round until you get another Alpha Flux - nothing in 4E comes anywhere near that kind of ability unless your players are serious powergamers. For anyone who doesn't want to spend extra money on cards, Troll and Toad lists the text for all of the booster pack Gamma World cards. My group just made proxies of them to put in our decks. trollandtoad.com/D&D-and-Other-RPGs/6192...