LINKI wanted to include a PSH origin in my games, but I wanted it to be a single origin, not a double origin as it is in the community project. I decided on a 'better at the basics' set-up, and drew a bit from the Compilation version of the origin fo

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#1

Siberys

Dec 27, 2010 1:28:18

LINK

I wanted to include a PSH origin in my games, but I wanted it to be a single origin, not a double origin as it is in the community project. I decided on a 'better at the basics' set-up, and drew a bit from the Compilation version of the origin for some of the abilities

I decided I didn't mind PSHs getting Alpha Mutations - I can easily flavor it as tech, or drawing from very close worldlines, or being remarkably, heroically lucky or whatever. But I didn't want them to be good at mutations, either, hence the lack of an overcharge bonus. I put in the Omega Check bonus to balance that out. I also wanted to nudge them towards firearms without mechanically requiring it, for which I took the Compilation PSH ammo feature.

What do you think? 

EDIT: It occurs to me it might be worth knowing how to use the origin. In my campaigns, I'll have a d% table with 2% chances for each of the official origins plus this. A duplicate roll gives you PSH as your secondary (on an even second roll), or an EH (on an odd). Duplicate EHs get PSH as their secondary, and vise-versa. 

#2

Oraibi

Dec 27, 2010 3:49:16
Reflexive attack looks like it should do 1[W] + level and not just 1[W].

Otherwise it becomes really, really, really worthless at mid to high levels, except for taking out two minions a round.
#3

ExcalibursZone

Dec 27, 2010 9:06:05
How did "normal" or "baseline" humans survive the big mistake when all these other freaks of nature, these "muties" were popping up all over the place? Through skill, training, and sheer willpower. They purposefully tinkered with the human genome (engineered human) to make themselves stronger, faster, tougher...smarter...um...more charismatic...and, uh...dedicated?

That's my take. So, to cater to the last bit there, I have enlisted the help of Steve Austin turned to the d20 Modern SRD and am doing a dual origin Pure Strain Human system.

Origin 1: One of the Basic Classes - Strong, Fast, Tough, Smart, Dedicated, Charismatic.
Origin 2: One of the Advanced Classes - Soldier, Martial Artist, etc.

Both classes have 10 maximum classes so I figured it fit perfectly.

I'm making adjustments to allow for tough, skilled, and trained normals. I'll post the PDF once I have the core stuff and d20 Apocalypse origins, skills, feats, etc. written up.
#4

Siberys

Dec 27, 2010 9:32:57
On the Reflexive attack, I was basing it off of a ranger at-will that operated very similarly. Though now that I think about ti , it should have + level in there, 'cause that's the substitute for feat bonuses... thanks for pointing that out, Oraibi.

ExcalibursZone, there's are lots of ways for a baseline human to have survived. For one thing, there's the multiple timelines stuff going on. That allows for all sorts of shenanigans. Add on the possibility of vaults a la Fallout, and sheer luck, and there are plenty of ways for baseline humans to have survived.

My goal with this origin was specifically to avoid making a dual origin or a whole bunch of origins - I wanted exactly one origin I could plug into the system normally. My go to explanation for a weird combination is going to be 'I have awesome technology'; PSH + giant = guy in big mech armor he found. PSH + hawkoid = guy with jetpack he found. Et cetera.

Of course, to each their own. I just think the GW system of character creation is robust enough to handle baseline humans without having it make no sense.

Also, gorramit. I forgot to set the thread title before I posted the thread, didn't I... Embarassed

Edit: The document has been updated with the change to Reflexive Attack.
#5

Oraibi

Dec 27, 2010 10:32:25
Siberys, it seems a little too close still to Engineered Human -- the same defense bonuses, the same tech affinity.

How about instead something like:

Armor Optimization (Level 1): Gain a +1 bonus to AC.
Pure Strain Resistance (Level 1): Gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against ongoing damage.


(Justifications: Armor optimization = because hey, most armor is made for someone just like you; pure strain resistance = the non-mutated types are just hardy like that, that's why they're not mutated.)

I suggest this not for power balance reasons but because it makes sense to make them even more distinct from EH.
#6

Siberys

Dec 27, 2010 10:57:34
Armor optimization is a little weak. Up it to +2 and it's good, though.

PSR is a little odd flavor-wise. Not that it wouldn't work, just that I'd like to go for something different. How about this?

Jury-Rig (Level 1): When you draw an Omega Tech card, draw two cards. The Game Master decides which one you keep. Shuffle the other back into the deck you drew it from.

 
#7

Oraibi

Dec 27, 2010 11:00:45
I dunno, that Jury-Rig sounds like a limitation rather than a useful ability.
#8

Siberys

Dec 27, 2010 11:05:21
Eh, the GM could as easily go for the good one as the bad one. Of course, he SHOULD be going for the funny one.

That's all that the Alien gets (applying to AM, not OT), so I was thinking it might be too much for the PSH.

Ammo reserves is a potent ability, though. I might be able to get away with not having another ability. 
#9

ExcalibursZone

Dec 27, 2010 15:10:29
OK, I actually took the time to read through your origin and find it lacking.

1: Pure Strain Humans, traditionally in all other versions of Gamma World that has them, demonstrate a hardiness and resistance to radiation. They do not have mutations at all. This hardiness has been represented as increases in Hit Points and to Constitution.

2: Most technology in the game (including robots) were built with baseline or engineered humans in mind. The tech counts on a standard genome and visual cues to recognize somone as being "human."

With those three things in mind...

Jury-Rig should give a bonus (say +2 to +4) to Omega Tech Recharge checks or a +1 or +2 level bonus to Salvage. You could go so far as to give a bonus equal to the character's Intelligence modifier (which would fit nicely).

Justification: Jury-Rigging something means that you are performing a precarious repair, a workaround if you will, to keep something running. Drawing 2 cards sounds more like scavenging rather than repairing.

Pure-Strain Resistance has been around in almost all other forms of Gamma World to date. I would suggest that it become a +4 vs Radiation damage and when inflicted with Ongoing Radiation damage, the character can roll a save when the damage is inflicted. If he saves, ignore the ongoing damage. Additionally, give the PSH +4 starting hit points at first level and +1 each additional.

PSH "Mutant Type" should be Constitution (due to precedence set by previous editions of GW).

The PSH critical doesn't really make any sense. Personally, I would give a standard 1d10 extra damage and then give combat advantage and/or mark the target. This forces the target to pay attention to the PSH because "He Means Business".

I've been thinking about using D&D 4e powers for my PSH as well. The problem is that most of those powers don't really scale well with increased level, that's why you can retrain them later on.

The issue I have with Reflexive Attack is that it doesn't do the same amount of damage as a basic attack. You're leaving off ability mod bonuses. It's true that the original Twin Strike doesn't have ability mod damage either, but we're talking about a game with crazy amounts of damage. If PSHs can't fight off those dang muties at lower levels, then it'd be difficult for them to survive for long.

The original write-up is really close to an Engineered Human. Hope Oraibi's and others' suggestions help you flesh this out more.
#10

Siberys

Dec 27, 2010 16:33:03
Jury-Rig should give a bonus (say +2 to +4) to Omega Tech Recharge checks or a +1 or +2 level bonus to Salvage. You could go so far as to give a bonus equal to the character's Intelligence modifier (which would fit nicely).

Justification: Jury-Rigging something means that you are performing a precarious repair, a workaround if you will, to keep something running. Drawing 2 cards sounds more like scavenging rather than repairing.


I've decided to just remove the jury-rig ability. Ammo reserves is reasonably good and the lack of an overcharge bonus is not big enough to warrant another ability. The Omega Charge bonus is exactly what EHs do, so it's out anyways. The bonus to salvage might have worked, but I'd bet the ammo reserves ability would be better - for one thing, a bonus to salvaging would start reducing in utility once you got close to or actually hit 10th level.

Pure-Strain Resistance has been around in almost all other forms of Gamma World to date. I would suggest that it become a +4 vs Radiation damage and when inflicted with Ongoing Radiation damage, the character can roll a save when the damage is inflicted. If he saves, ignore the ongoing damage. Additionally, give the PSH +4 starting hit points at first level and +1 each additional.


That's all fine and good, but, IMV, it doesn't necessarily need a mechanical backing. The easiest way to do that would be to just give straight resist 10 or 15 radiation, but I don't want to replace ammo reserves. Since I'd be reflavoring the other origin and AMs the the PSH would get during play, all I'd need to show PSR is that the character isn't mutated. And he isn't.

Ditto on the HP. If the player wants a high HP, he can up his CON. Just 'cause the guy doesn't mutate doesn't mean he's super healthy.

PSH "Mutant Type" should be Constitution (due to precedence set by previous editions of GW).


Again, I really don't see this as necessary. A PSH could just as easily be around because of time-space shenanigans as surviving on their own grit. And, if you want to go the survived-because-of-strong-physiology route, just take CON for your PSH ability bonus.

The PSH critical doesn't really make any sense. Personally, I would give a standard 1d10 extra damage and then give combat advantage and/or mark the target. This forces the target to pay attention to the PSH because "He Means Business".


I was going for the idea that the attack caused a grievous, bleeding wound. It works especially well, flavor-wise, if the character is using a gun.

I've been thinking about using D&D 4e powers for my PSH as well. The problem is that most of those powers don't really scale well with increased level, that's why you can retrain them later on.

The issue I have with Reflexive Attack is that it doesn't do the same amount of damage as a basic attack. You're leaving off ability mod bonuses. It's true that the original Twin Strike doesn't have ability mod damage either, but we're talking about a game with crazy amounts of damage. If PSHs can't fight off those dang muties at lower levels, then it'd be difficult for them to survive for long.


Thing is, this is an At-Will I based it off of, and those don't get retrained. Unless you're a member of a psionic class, but that's a different topic. There should be a cost for getting a free second attack pretty much every round, and that cost is reduced damage.

Losing that ability bonus to damage amounts to losing 4 or 5 points of damage, in exchange for making a second attack. Combine that with the push towards using firearms for the attack (because of the miss note in the power, and the ammo reserve feature), and it should be doing a respectable amount of damage, even without that damage bonus.

I could also set it up as using a secondary attack, a la the following;

Hit: 1[W] + Ability + Level physical damage.
Effect: Make a secondary attack.
...
Hit: 1[W] + Level damage

That could work, though again I'm not convinced it's necessary. I'll drop it in, though. It gives the power a slight damage boost, but nothing more. It easy to remove the + ability mod damage if it is too much, too.

The original write-up is really close to an Engineered Human. Hope Oraibi's and others' suggestions help you flesh this out more.


The closeness was intended, actually. My origin-rolling system allows for EH/PSH or PSH/EH, so I was thinking about what it would look like as a package deal.

FWIW, PSH has been updated.
#11

palmerkun

Dec 28, 2010 3:24:22
I don't get the logic behind single origin here.

Pure + anything else = NOT PURE
#12

Siberys

Dec 28, 2010 11:14:05
Making it a multiple-origin screws with the rolling and makes for very homogenous characters. Additionally, the other origins are very easy to flavor as somethng NOT resulting from mutations. Same with Alpha Mutations. They can easily represent tech or training or luck or a hundred different things that would make sense for PSH to have.

IOW, it's only important for a PSH to be pure from a story perspective, not a mechanical one. 
#13

Tony_Vargas

Dec 28, 2010 22:08:53
Engineered Human with the 'What is Human?' sidebar is fine for a story-not-mechanics single-origin human - one who gets Alpha Mutations and powers from a second origin, but re-skins them as luck/skill/tech/whatever.

The point of the 'Pure Strain' Human I did for the community collection was to harken back to the old-school Gamma World PSH, who had /no/ mutations, and who couldn't recieve mutations from radiation exposure.  Thus, no secondary origin and no Alpha Mutations.  I've toyed with the idea of having 'origins' that represent nothing more than training - classes, really - that would combine with a single-origin PSH (or any other origin, for that matter). 


As an aside, itsn't it funny that the 7th ed GW presents no unmutated humans, no unmutated plants or animals ... /except/ horses?   Why did horses survive the Big Mistake unscathed?  Don't know, but there're two of 'em right there in the equipment chart... 
#14

Siberys

Dec 28, 2010 22:47:21
Eh, I suppose I can see the reasoning for all of that. I was going for a generalist origin, using enhanced BAs and the like to give an 'advanced basic' feel.

Now that I think about it, though, I am sorta reinventing the wheel, aren't I?
#15

palmerkun

Dec 29, 2010 2:22:27
As an aside, itsn't it funny that the 7th ed GW presents no unmutated humans, no unmutated plants or animals ... /except/ horses?   Why did horses survive the Big Mistake unscathed?  Don't know, but there're two of 'em right there in the equipment chart... 



Nothing saying other animals have unmutated forms. Tangh was looking for bacon, which implies pigs, for instance.

Also, nothing said the horse was unmutated. It could be something large and bipedal and vaguely horselike, and people just call it a horse because it works like one.

There's nothing stopping you from having
Regular Animal (Horse/Rabbit)
Mutant Animal (Unicorn/Vorpal Rabbit)
Humanized Mutant Animal (Bad Horse/Hoops)
#16

PeelSeelTwo

Dec 29, 2010 6:57:22
I like the humanocentric nature of the older editions of Gamma World.  That does not preclude a humanoncentric view of the new Gamma Terra, however.  I hand wave it in my mind in that 50% of beings could be considered 'humans'.  Most mutated characters can end up looking human any ways.  Pg.35 of the rules give guidelines that line up right with that old school Gamma World.  I tell my players to choose between human appearance, humanoid, plant, artificial/hybrid, and mutated animals stating that if their is not anything grossly not suggesting human or humanoid, they should pick one of those two.  This way I can make it jive with my old view of the new Gamma World.

I must say, the new Gamma World is very addicting.  I think it is the best so far, beyond even 2nd edition.  It kinda hurts to say that. 
#17

FlashbackJon

Dec 29, 2010 11:04:40
Nothing saying other animals have unmutated forms. Tangh was looking for bacon, which implies pigs, for instance.


In fact, the Interaction check about town reveals humans who know about wild hogs, but oddly know nothing about porkers.
#18

Tony_Vargas

Dec 30, 2010 15:57:15
Nothing saying other animals have unmutated forms. Tangh was looking for bacon, which implies pigs, for instance.


In fact, the Interaction check about town reveals humans who know about wild hogs, but oddly know nothing about porkers.

It feels like an artifact of the new aproach taken with this ed.  In older versions of the game, you were supposed to try to RP a character with no knowledge of 'ancient' technology - even though you watched all the same cheesy sci-fi as inspired the original author - but was casually familiar with the difference between a Seroun-Lou and a Horl-Chu.   It could be a bit of a stretch, and it wasn't unusual for GMs to look for ways around it.

This version clearly assumes that the PCs have their player's general knowledge (the Big Mistake conveniently happens in the late 21st century, and there are still DVD players kicking around), and that the wierd and whacky mutant monsters and omega tech are so wierd, whacky, and varied, that living your whole life among them doesn't really prepare you for them. 

Every once in a while, though, you find a bit where the guy writing it may have been thinking about the traditional Gamma Terra...

#19

ChaoticGood

Jan 03, 2011 22:14:36
As an aside, itsn't it funny that the 7th ed GW presents no unmutated humans, no unmutated plants or animals ... /except/ horses?   Why did horses survive the Big Mistake unscathed?  Don't know, but there're two of 'em right there in the equipment chart... 



I noticed this, too ... it's one of the two primary reasons I've decided to rewrite the starting gear list.

The other is that boats come up way too often compared to the amount of use the average character is likely to get out of them. Having multiple horses (or, in my case, horse-like beings) available to a party is useful; having multiple keelboats is generally not.
#20

Tony_Vargas

Jan 05, 2011 4:17:10
Tell me about it.   The party I ran for on Game Day ended up with each and every character having a boat.  One had a Keelboat and two canoes.   You never even see a body of water in the Game Day module.