Stat bonus/defences formula question - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 wyrmwrath Dec 15, 2011 15:45:21	On the official sheet, it states to add your level to your stat modifier to calculate a total stat modifier. Then in each of the defence and attack and damage sections it states to add your level IN ADDITION to your total modified stat bonus total. This means your level is taken added in twice; onece to the stat mod, then again in each of the formula. Is that correct? I would think its a mistake just based on general game mechanics mindsets.
#2 marroon69 Dec 18, 2011 7:17:10	Actually it is a little misleading but no it is not the stat bonus + level...it is only the pure stat bonus. So level only gets factored in once in the equation. Page 59 in the Gamma Rule core book has the ability modifier chart so you can use that as reference
#3 wyrmwrath Dec 18, 2011 19:11:20	It seems odd, but was very clear on the PC sheet. "Next, see the ability modifier chart for each score; place that value + your level in the parentheses:" Thats a direct quote form the PC sheet from the game. My experience tells me thats not correct as INTENDED by the designers, despite what the PC sheet says. I was hoping to get a "your correct you dont add your level to the stat mod" nod from one of the WOTC staff.
#4 ExcalibursZone Dec 18, 2011 23:53:53	You're misinterpreting this, unfortunately. The modified stat bonus is for stat checks. Your stat bonus doesn't actually get modified by your level, a 12 is still a +1 even if you're level 10. However, that check with that stat has a +11 (stat mod plus level). For your defenses, it's the same thing, stat mod + level. In the case of AC it's Dex mod or Int mod, whichever is highest plus your level. Stat checks are used for things that aren't covered by skills ("I'm going to lift the front of that car!"..."OK, roll a Strength check vs DC 23." Skills also get your level as a bonus, this is added to any special modifiers (such as origin, power, mutation, tech, or feat bonuses) along with your stat modifier for the skill. I hope that made it clear: Stat modifier = (stat score - 10) / 2 Stat check = stat modifier + level Skill check = (above formula) Defenses = Highst of 2 stat modifiers + level Initiative = Dex modifier + level
#5 wyrmwrath Dec 19, 2011 0:14:03	Im not misinterpreting anything, just stating fact. That IS what the sheet says. It mentions nothing about "for stat checks only". However, like I have said, I do not think that was what the designers intended. I was just hoping for an official yes or no from WOTC staffers.
#6 soraku Dec 20, 2011 23:33:05	Im not misinterpreting anything, just stating fact. That IS what the sheet says. It mentions nothing about "for stat checks only". However, like I have said, I do not think that was what the designers intended. I was just hoping for an official yes or no from WOTC staffers. You are quite right about what the sheet says but it should only be the modifier. You are correct in assuming that ability modifier does not include your level. As far as getting a response from WOTC, not likely. As others have pointed out, if the player was going to do something that there is no skill for, you would then have them do a stat check which would be 1d20 + Ability modifier + their level. My personal opinion of the sheet that comes in the box set is that it is the worst sheet available. There are much better sheets available on these forums. Wotc even has a online character sheet program for gamma world that works pretty good. However for the defenses and attack section of the sheet, it simply says ability modifier, not total modified stat bonus total. Quote from the sheet. Section 5b. Determine your defenses. Your defenses are equal to 10 + your level + the better of two scores: AC dex or int modifier fortitude Str of Con Modifier Reflex Dex or Int Modifier Will Wis or Cha Modifier Section 5c. Your attack bonus is your ability modifier + your level + accuracy bonus for the weapon or power. Your damage bonus uses the ability modifier as your attack bonus + either your level or twice your level. Neither of those sections say anything about total modified stat bonus. Just ability modifier, so your level is only being added in once for defenses and attacks. Depending on the power you are using you may then add your level in once or twice for the damage only.
#7 wyrmwrath Dec 21, 2011 10:55:00	Yes I know the other sections say nothiong about using anything called total modified stat bonus. but in the stat section where it states this: "Next, see the ability modifier chart for each score; place that value + your level in the parentheses:" its describing how to calculate yoru stat bonus in total. The way the PC sheet is written this total is the stat mod IS the modifier your supposed to use. Yes its a crappy sheet, but we used this as an additional PC creation since the rules in the game are far from clear and detailed. As for as a WOTC staffer commenting, it wasnt something I expected but was hoping for.
#8 Daxarth Jan 04, 2012 15:14:50	I can see why they have you put mod plus level on the sheet I called for con checks and half the group failed an easy dc. I thought it was really odd. Afterwards I found out that the half that failed, none added their level. As far as what the sheet says. It does not say to calculate a total stat mod. It just says to look up the stat mod in the book add the level and write it in the space provided. It never references that adjusted number again For the attacks and defenses it says to add the stat mod and the level. It does not say to use the adjusted mod you filled in earlier at the other location on the sheet so I didn't interpret it that way. But I am a bit of a literalist at times. As far as a response from WOTC. They don't really monitor forum questions or respond to them. You can call cust service and they will give a response but if you call again or someone else does then, I believe, you will most likely get a different response. Player feedback is about all the response I think you will get.
#9 wyrmwrath Jan 05, 2012 14:12:26	This is what the sheet text says to do: You get an 18 in the primary ability score of your first origin and a 16 for your second origin (20 if the primary ability scores for your origins match). Roll 3d6 for each remaining score. Next, see the ability modifi er chart for each score; place that value + your level in the parentheses: This is what the sheet uses as a formulae example: ABILITY SCORES (+MODIFIER) This, by its wording, implies the total of level and stat bous IS your stat modifier. I am unsure where you are all seeing the term TOTAL modifier, as it appears nowhere. Like I said before, I think this is NOT what they intended. THEN in the other sections this is the creation instruction they have. Your attack bonus is your ability midifier + your level + accuracy bonus for the weapon or power. Your damage bonus uses the same ability modifier as the attack bonus + either your level or twice your level. No where in any of these directions does it say to NOT use the number that the sheet earlier tells you to put next to each stat, which the sheet calls your stat modifier. Not your TOTAL modifier. If your taking it literally, then you SHOULD be adding your level in twice since that what it tells you to do. Personally I think this: "+ your level" was added into the stat box text by mistake.
#10 Daxarth Jan 06, 2012 5:06:17	But Wyrmwrath, in the section you quoted it refers to looking up the modifer on a table in the book and putting the looked up number plus your level in the parenthesis. So wouldnt the other references to the modifier also be refering to the number from the table in the book and not the adjusted number? Oh and I believe everybody is getting "total stat mod" from your original post. Could be wrong aboujt that though.
#11 wyrmwrath Jan 06, 2012 10:23:15	The answer is no, because of this : This is what the sheet uses as a formulae example: ABILITY SCORES (+MODIFIER) In this header its essentialy saying that the stat mod listed in the book based on your stat, added to your level, is what its going to call your stat modifier form ths point forward. Therefore all other referrences on the sheet are, by implication, speaking of this "total modofied" number. Since thats counter intuative based on all my gaming experince because the other formulae also make you add your level in, I decided to see if I could get a clarification from the WOC staff, fully expecting the answer to be "no you dont add your level in twice".

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

wyrmwrath

Dec 15, 2011 15:45:21

On the official sheet, it states to add your level to your stat modifier to calculate a total stat modifier. Then in each of the defence and attack and damage sections it states to add your level IN ADDITION to your total modified stat bonus total. This means your level is taken added in twice; onece to the stat mod, then again in each of the formula. Is that correct? I would think its a mistake just based on general game mechanics mindsets.

marroon69

Dec 18, 2011 7:17:10

Actually it is a little misleading but no it is not the stat bonus + level...it is only the pure stat bonus. So level only gets factored in once in the equation. Page 59 in the Gamma Rule core book has the ability modifier chart so you can use that as reference

wyrmwrath

Dec 18, 2011 19:11:20

It seems odd, but was very clear on the PC sheet.

"Next, see the ability modifier chart for each score; place that value + your level in the parentheses:"

Thats a direct quote form the PC sheet from the game. My experience tells me thats not correct as INTENDED by the designers, despite what the PC sheet says. I was hoping to get a "your correct you dont add your level to the stat mod" nod from one of the WOTC staff.

ExcalibursZone

Dec 18, 2011 23:53:53

You're misinterpreting this, unfortunately. The modified stat bonus is for stat checks. Your stat bonus doesn't actually get modified by your level, a 12 is still a +1 even if you're level 10. However, that check with that stat has a +11 (stat mod plus level). For your defenses, it's the same thing, stat mod + level. In the case of AC it's Dex mod or Int mod, whichever is highest plus your level.

Stat checks are used for things that aren't covered by skills ("I'm going to lift the front of that car!"..."OK, roll a Strength check vs DC 23."

Skills also get your level as a bonus, this is added to any special modifiers (such as origin, power, mutation, tech, or feat bonuses) along with your stat modifier for the skill.

I hope that made it clear:
Stat modifier = (stat score - 10) / 2
Stat check = stat modifier + level
Skill check = (above formula)
Defenses = Highst of 2 stat modifiers + level
Initiative = Dex modifier + level

wyrmwrath

Dec 19, 2011 0:14:03

Im not misinterpreting anything, just stating fact. That IS what the sheet says. It mentions nothing about "for stat checks only". However, like I have said, I do not think that was what the designers intended. I was just hoping for an official yes or no from WOTC staffers.

soraku

Dec 20, 2011 23:33:05

Im not misinterpreting anything, just stating fact. That IS what the sheet says. It mentions nothing about "for stat checks only". However, like I have said, I do not think that was what the designers intended. I was just hoping for an official yes or no from WOTC staffers.

You are quite right about what the sheet says but it should only be the modifier. You are correct in assuming that ability modifier does not include your level.

As far as getting a response from WOTC, not likely.

As others have pointed out, if the player was going to do something that there is no skill for, you would then have them do a stat check which would be 1d20 + Ability modifier + their level.

My personal opinion of the sheet that comes in the box set is that it is the worst sheet available. There are much better sheets available on these forums. Wotc even has a online character sheet program for gamma world that works pretty good.

However for the defenses and attack section of the sheet, it simply says ability modifier, not total modified stat bonus total.

Quote from the sheet.
Section 5b.
Determine your defenses. Your defenses are equal to 10 + your level + the better of two scores:

AC dex or int modifier

fortitude Str of Con Modifier
Reflex Dex or Int Modifier
Will Wis or Cha Modifier

Section 5c.
Your attack bonus is your ability modifier + your level + accuracy bonus for the weapon or power. Your damage bonus uses the ability modifier as your attack bonus + either your level or twice your level.

Neither of those sections say anything about total modified stat bonus. Just ability modifier, so your level is only being added in once for defenses and attacks. Depending on the power you are using you may then add your level in once or twice for the damage only.

wyrmwrath

Dec 21, 2011 10:55:00

Yes I know the other sections say nothiong about using anything called total modified stat bonus. but in the stat section where it states this:

"Next, see the ability modifier chart for each score; place that value + your level in the parentheses:"

its describing how to calculate yoru stat bonus in total. The way the PC sheet is written this total is the stat mod IS the modifier your supposed to use.

Yes its a crappy sheet, but we used this as an additional PC creation since the rules in the game are far from clear and detailed.

As for as a WOTC staffer commenting, it wasnt something I expected but was hoping for.

Daxarth

Jan 04, 2012 15:14:50

I can see why they have you put mod plus level on the sheet I called for con checks and half the group failed an easy dc. I thought it was really odd. Afterwards I found out that the half that failed, none added their level.

As far as what the sheet says. It does not say to calculate a total stat mod. It just says to look up the stat mod in the book add the level and write it in the space provided. It never references that adjusted number again For the attacks and defenses it says to add the stat mod and the level. It does not say to use the adjusted mod you filled in earlier at the other location on the sheet so I didn't interpret it that way. But I am a bit of a literalist at times.

As far as a response from WOTC. They don't really monitor forum questions or respond to them. You can call cust service and they will give a response but if you call again or someone else does then, I believe, you will most likely get a different response. Player feedback is about all the response I think you will get.

wyrmwrath

Jan 05, 2012 14:12:26

This is what the sheet text says to do:

You get an 18 in the primary ability score of your first origin and a 16 for your second origin (20 if the primary ability scores for your origins match). Roll 3d6 for each remaining score. Next, see the ability modifi er chart for each score; place that value + your level in the parentheses:

This is what the sheet uses as a formulae example:

ABILITY SCORES (+MODIFIER)

This, by its wording, implies the total of level and stat bous IS your stat modifier. I am unsure where you are all seeing the term TOTAL modifier, as it appears nowhere. Like I said before, I think this is NOT what they intended.

THEN in the other sections this is the creation instruction they have.

Your attack bonus is your ability midifier + your level + accuracy bonus for the weapon or power. Your damage bonus uses the same ability modifier as the attack bonus + either your level or twice your level.

No where in any of these directions does it say to NOT use the number that the sheet earlier tells you to put next to each stat, which the sheet calls your stat modifier. Not your TOTAL modifier.

If your taking it literally, then you SHOULD be adding your level in twice since that what it tells you to do. Personally I think this:

"+ your level"

was added into the stat box text by mistake.

#10

Daxarth

Jan 06, 2012 5:06:17

But Wyrmwrath, in the section you quoted it refers to looking up the modifer on a table in the book and putting the looked up number plus your level in the parenthesis. So wouldnt the other references to the modifier also be refering to the number from the table in the book and not the adjusted number?

Oh and I believe everybody is getting "total stat mod" from your original post. Could be wrong aboujt that though.

#11

wyrmwrath

Jan 06, 2012 10:23:15

The answer is no, because of this :

This is what the sheet uses as a formulae example:

ABILITY SCORES (+MODIFIER)

In this header its essentialy saying that the stat mod listed in the book based on your stat, added to your level, is what its going to call your stat modifier form ths point forward. Therefore all other referrences on the sheet are, by implication, speaking of this "total modofied" number. Since thats counter intuative based on all my gaming experince because the other formulae also make you add your level in, I decided to see if I could get a clarification from the WOC staff, fully expecting the answer to be "no you dont add your level in twice".