seems like they're just encouraging creative solutions by making these sorts of things inconvenient and unattainable.
Dubmaster, your insight does not match the marketing research and experience of Hasbro and WotC when it comes to the production and distribution cost versus the revenues generated by such margin products. But you're definitely a valued customer. There just aren't enough of you (or me) to make such a map a viable sale item.
Maybe you should look on ebay... there going pretty frequently, and for alot more than 10 bucks a pop, and dont get me started on the two-headed promo card #2's going rate...
Maybe you should look on ebay... there going pretty frequently, and for alot more than 10 bucks a pop, and dont get me started on the two-headed promo card #2's going rate...
ebay is not an indication of what the public is willing to pay for a retail item, nor is it an indication of how much volume a retail item can sell for. ebay is merely an indication of what a single individual is willing to pay for an item that is not currently available in retail.
WotC is a mass market retailer. It makes its retial line decisions on the basis of market research, market history, publication history, profit margin, and gross revenue. This last one even trumps the others, because although WotC might be able to make a really high per-unit profit on a single item, it may not be able to sell enough of them to justify the resource inputs.
This is one reason WotC steers away from most retail adventures. They sell to far too small of a niche.
- Of ALL D&D players, only about 1 in 3 (generous) ever serve as Dungeon Master.
- Of all Dungeon Masters, only about 1 in 3 (again generous) use published adventures
- Of all Dungeon Masters that use published adventures, only a portion (let's continue to be generous and say 1 in 2) will use any given published adventure.
When deciding what to publish, WotC needs to consider that a general player supplement will sell roughly 20 times the number of units as a popular, high-selling module. If an adventure has twice the profit margin as a player supplement, it will still generate only 1/10th the profit and significantly less revenue. Yet it will require nearly the same amount of resource dedication (author, layout editor, copy editor, art director, artist, printer line time, etc). Adventures don't make solid business sense for a company that *can* sell player supplements instead.
Most Gamma World accessories fall into this same dilemma.
- Of all folks who buy Gamma World, only a portion will ever buy any of the additional supplements.
- Of those who buy supplements, only a portion will buy a non-box set supplement.
- Of those who will buy a non-box supplement, only a portion will buy a published map.
- Of those who will buy a published map, only a portion will buy *this* published map.
eBay merely play off the reality of business decisions at the consumer level.
Maybe you should look on ebay... there going pretty frequently, and for alot more than 10 bucks a pop, and dont get me started on the two-headed promo card #2's going rate...
ebay is not an indication of what the public is willing to pay for a retail item, nor is it an indication of how much volume a retail item can sell for. ebay is merely an indication of what a single individual is willing to pay for an item that is not currently available in retail.
WotC is a mass market retailer. It makes its retial line decisions on the basis of market research, market history, publication history, profit margin, and gross revenue. This last one even trumps the others, because although WotC might be able to make a really high per-unit profit on a single item, it may not be able to sell enough of them to justify the resource inputs.
This is one reason WotC steers away from most retail adventures. They sell to far too small of a niche.
- Of ALL D&D players, only about 1 in 3 (generous) ever serve as Dungeon Master.
- Of all Dungeon Masters, only about 1 in 3 (again generous) use published adventures
- Of all Dungeon Masters that use published adventures, only a portion (let's continue to be generous and say 1 in 2) will use any given published adventure.
When deciding what to publish, WotC needs to consider that a general player supplement will sell roughly 20 times the number of units as a popular, high-selling module. If an adventure has twice the profit margin as a player supplement, it will still generate only 1/10th the profit and significantly less revenue. Yet it will require nearly the same amount of resource dedication (author, layout editor, copy editor, art director, artist, printer line time, etc). Adventures don't make solid business sense for a company that *can* sell player supplements instead.
Most Gamma World accessories fall into this same dilemma.
- Of all folks who buy Gamma World, only a portion will ever buy any of the additional supplements.
- Of those who buy supplements, only a portion will buy a non-box set supplement.
- Of those who will buy a non-box supplement, only a portion will buy a published map.
- Of those who will buy a published map, only a portion will buy *this* published map.
eBay merely play off the reality of business decisions at the consumer level.
Apparently... I dont know what Im talking about... sorry Seeker, making you type all that out, coulda just told me to be quiet.
Apparently... I dont know what Im talking about... sorry Seeker, making you type all that out, coulda just told me to be quiet.
Possibly. But now you know. And knowing is half the battle.
That's a bummer. What a great freebie for DnDInsider subscribers. ;)
Where are the Freesboro maps? I never saw them on DDI. I missed them it seems.
Where are the Freesboro maps? I never saw them on DDI. I missed them it seems.
He meant that these would be a great freebie if they released them on DDI.
Where are the Freesboro maps? I never saw them on DDI. I missed them it seems.
He meant that these would be a great freebie if they released them on DDI.
D'oh!
I guess I sort of understand their reasoning with these type of adventures when it comes to D&D. They want to really promote these Game Day events and such to the established community.
However, I think it's sad that there are great intro adventures out there that people would love to run for both fun and a great way to promote the product but they aren't easily accessible.
Considering how young this product is and how few official adventures are out there, you'd think they'd give consumers a way to purchase these.
I really think they did a good job at creating them and would love to use them to hook my friends but alas that's a pipe dream.
You know, I would sign up for DDI in a heartbeat just to get Freesboro and the Pax adventure (adventure plus maps).
I guess I sort of understand their reasoning with these type of adventures when it comes to D&D. They want to really promote these Game Day events and such to the established community.
However, I think it's sad that there are great intro adventures out there that people would love to run for both fun and a great way to promote the product but they aren't easily accessible.
Considering how young this product is and how few official adventures are out there, you'd think they'd give consumers a way to purchase these.
I really think they did a good job at creating them and would love to use them to hook my friends but alas that's a pipe dream.
To me it just seems like it's going a step to far. Some stores don't even host gameday events. IMO they should have them be game day specials but then a month later release them to the public. It's not like they're going to have another game day event using the exact same adventure.
You know, I would sign up for DDI in a heartbeat just to get Freesboro and the Pax adventure (adventure plus maps).
I guess I sort of understand their reasoning with these type of adventures when it comes to D&D. They want to really promote these Game Day events and such to the established community.
However, I think it's sad that there are great intro adventures out there that people would love to run for both fun and a great way to promote the product but they aren't easily accessible.
Considering how young this product is and how few official adventures are out there, you'd think they'd give consumers a way to purchase these.
I really think they did a good job at creating them and would love to use them to hook my friends but alas that's a pipe dream.
To me it just seems like it's going a step to far. Some stores don't even host gameday events. IMO they should have them be game day specials but then a month later release them to the public. It's not like they're going to have another game day event using the exact same adventure.
As I said before... there is a demand - thats inspiring piracy - bad move. If not a retail copy, as Ive been told by Seeker... sell it as a download... whats there to lose... they are just fumbling the ball as far as Im concerned. There is a booming GW thing going on right now, and my local game store didnt even receive the gameday package... another fumble... and as I recall ther were around 7-9 people who showed up out of the blue for the adversed event, as well as the 4 of my good buds who were with me way exited about it, but made do. As I said before its selling on ebay... what could you lose selling it as a download?... same with Pax...
Release them, and some folks will be bitching that their exclusive rewards are no longer exclusive.
Another instance in which WotC is damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Note: This is not related to any specific post, regardless of proximity. It is an assessment of the position in which fans have put WotC.
Don't release them, and some folks are bitching 'cause they can't get it.
Release them, and some folks will be bitching that their exclusive rewards are no longer exclusive.
Another instance in which WotC is damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Note: This is not related to any specific post, regardless of proximity. It is an assessment of the position in which fans have put WotC.
I don't think that's fair at all. I've been to other D&D game days and nothing they've given out makes me feel like I have something others don't Usually you get a repaint of a figure.
Also as others said their store didn't even carry it. My FLGS didn't even know about Gamma World until I came in a few weeks ago wanting card protectors for it. So should we just be expected to suck it up?
I highly doubt that those who did attend would be "bitching" because others have access to their product. I think you might be upset if others had access, but I don't know if you can speak for everyone.
Probably not, on this board, but it would be worth a try.
At any rate, I can't see them losing good will over offering extra adventures and maps for one of their worlds.
I don't think that's fair at all.
You don't think what is fair?
So should we just be expected to suck it up?
What do you mean by this statement?
I highly doubt that those who did attend would be "bitching" because others have access to their product. I think you might be upset if others had access, but I don't know if you can speak for everyone.
You would be thinking wrong, but thanks for making assumptions about me.
Speaking of "I don't know if you can speak for everyone" ... Are you assuming that because I said "some people" I must mean you? If you are making that assumption, I apologize for what may have been an unclear statement when I said "some people" -- "some people" does not always include "all people" -- sometimes it doesn't even include "you" even if all other criteria apply.
I don't think that's fair at all.
You don't think what is fair?So should we just be expected to suck it up?
What do you mean by this statement?I highly doubt that those who did attend would be "bitching" because others have access to their product. I think you might be upset if others had access, but I don't know if you can speak for everyone.
You would be thinking wrong, but thanks for making assumptions about me.
Speaking of "I don't know if you can speak for everyone" ... Are you assuming that because I said "some people" I must mean you? If you are making that assumption, I apologize for what may have been an unclear statement when I said "some people" -- "some people" does not always include "all people" -- sometimes it doesn't even include "you" even if all other criteria apply.
Sorry I felt your statement that people would be bitching is unfair. I do not think that would be the case.
As to what I meant later, I meant that I felt you were saying that people who didn't even have an oppurtinty to participate in an event shouldn't be allowed to voice their complaints.
I hate when people hide being blanket statements acting surprised when people take it personally. When you use vauge wording people are likely to assume you are talking about them if they fall into the group that you are refering to. I mean somepeople are just huge passive aggressive jerks, but that's just somepeople.
I hate when people hide being blanket statements acting surprised when people take it personally. When you use vauge wording people are likely to assume you are talking about them if they fall into the group that you are refering to. I mean somepeople are just huge passive aggressive jerks, but that's just somepeople.
Yup. Some people are.
And if I was worried that you were talking about me with such statements, I would pull you aside and ask if you meant me, and if you did, why you felt that I fell into such a category. However, I am not worried that you might mean me, because I know myself to be far from passive and not at all acting in sch a manner. I know that when I said "some people" and even explicitly indicated that such an assessment was not related to any specific post, I really meant it. If I meant *you* when I said "some people" I would have most definitely said your screen name.
I also know that you're talking from an unnecessarily defensive place, and that such comments are just idle frustration.
So take a deep breath and relax.
I hate when people hide being blanket statements acting surprised when people take it personally. When you use vauge wording people are likely to assume you are talking about them if they fall into the group that you are refering to. I mean somepeople are just huge passive aggressive jerks, but that's just somepeople.
Yup. Some people are.
And if I was worried that you were talking about me with such statements, I would pull you aside and ask if you meant me, and if you did, why you felt that I fell into such a category. However, I am not worried that you might mean me, because I know myself to be far from passive and not at all acting in sch a manner. I know that when I said "some people" and even explicitly indicated that such an assessment was not related to any specific post, I really meant it. If I meant *you* when I said "some people" I would have most definitely said your screen name.
I also know that you're talking from an unnecessarily defensive place, and that such comments are just idle frustration.
So take a deep breath and relax.
Wow dude what are you a dime store shrink like my mom ... get a life... youre not that important...and in my opinion... your spending too much time engaging people on these forums than encouraging them...
The Pax adventure had nothing special from what I've read beyond the adventure and the Freesboro one had 2 exclusive cards. I'm fine with keeping those cards exclusives but the adventures themselves? I doubt anyone would feel robbed because they happened to play Gamma World at Pax and/or Game Day and then found out other people a few months later got to play it later.
This isn't like having bragging rights because you got backstage passes to some big rock concert here. From a business stand point it makes no sense for them to keep the adventure away from most of their players. Especially a level 1 adventure.
Given the descriptions from other players, it's easy to make a home brew version but I just find it silly that I'm willing to support the product and they make it hard to get a simple adventure electronically.
I'd be very curious to see how it's selling as well. I honestly don't play D&D but Gamma World has brought me back in a way. It's too bad they aren't willing to release more products, they could just do revamps of the old stories/adventures (as they have been) and make a killing IMHO.
Wow dude what are you a dime store shrink like my mom ... get a life... youre not that important...and in my opinion... your spending too much time engaging people on these forums than encouraging them...
Comparing me to your mother? Thanks.
(When you get a little bit older, you will understand why I consider that a compliment, even if you intended it as an insult.)
As for spending my time engaging people rather than encouraging them:
- I am as incapable of letting jabs slide as you are.
- My encouragement on posts worth encouraging is pretty frequent.
Enjoy your day, good sir.
I don't believe that adventures sell all that well historically.
This is true. And it makes sense. Consider:
- Of all D&D players (PHB/Player's Kit purchasers), only 1 in 3 buys anything after that.
- Of all of those, only 1 in 5 is a DM. (Let's be generous and say 1 in 3.)
- Of all DMs, only 1 in 3 uses published adventures. (Let's be generous and say 1 in 2.)
- Of all DMs using published adventures, only 1 in 3 will buy *Adventure X* (That's already generous.)
So any given adventure sells to, at best, 1 in 50 D&D players. I suspect it is closer to 1 in 150.
Now let's apply that to Gamma World.
- I doubt even 1 in 1000 D&D players plays Gamma World, but lets say it's 1 in 100.
- Of those, only 1 in 5 owns the Gamma World set.
- Of those, only 1 in 3 will buy another Gamma World supplement.
- Of those, only 1 in 3 will buy a non-boxed supplement.
- Of those, only 1 in 3 will buy *Supplement X*.
So any given Gamma World adventure sells to, at best, 1 in 13,500 D&D players. I suspect it is closer to 1 in 150,000.
Regardless of the sales numbers, the relative sales units of a Gamma World module compared to a D&D module is slim (the D&D module will outsell the Gamma World module 1000:1). And we already know that D&D adventures are too small a niche for WotC to justify the production time (given the adventure production history to date).
None of this precludes me from agreeing that my DDI subscription would LOVE to see Gamma World modules thrown into the content mix. But non-Gamma-World-playing DDI subscribers would complain about that, and they outnumber us Gamma World players by a large margin.
Disclaimer: All of the above numbers are made up for purposes of relative utility. Actual numbers may vary greatly, but I suspect all of the above fall short of the real disparity between modules and non-modules.