Dev Concepts - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Dev Concepts

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
drowbattlemind
Dec 14, 2008 16:53:49 I think one of the main problems with Greyhawk, to the Development crew at WotC, is that many of the other campaign worlds can be easily summed up in just one or two sentences, if not one or two words.

Let's look at some of the other campaign worlds they've actually done well for (or plan to), and you'll see a pattern emerge:

Forgotten Realms - Classic High Fantasy, with a rich history.
Eberron - Steampunk fantasy combined with High Pulp Romace.
Dragonlance - Epic struggles between good and evil Dragon armies.
Planescape - Belief determines Reality.
Spelljammer - ELVES IN SPAAAAAACE!!!!!!!!!!!
Ravenloft - GOTHIC HORROR.
Dark Sun - Post-apocalyptic fantasy, where magic and psionics clash.

And Greyhawk? They're not quite sure how to get a "handle" on Greyhawk, really, since when you step back and take a long look at the other settings, they ALL take a tiny smidgen of classic Greyhawk lore and exaggerate it, building an entire campaign around that one facet.

Now, a lot of people go on about how Greyhawk is "Classic Low Fantasy", which is not entirely true (it is, but only at low levels), and that outlook muddles the water, I think, since it seems to just be a grittier version of the FR when you look at it from that perspective. That does Greyhawk a disservice, in my opinion.

Greyhawk is so much MORE than that.

Greyhawk is where we have an entire Sea of DUST, and frozen land where the ice is actually BLACK!
Where ancient artifacts are found, and lost, and found again!
A world where there are Demon-ruled lands, and kingdoms of Kung-Fu Nazi's.
Where spaceships crash and adventurers have to battle androids and mutants at least ONCE a campaign! (Expedition to the Barrier Peaks)
Where a goddess of Evil came THIS CLOSE to physically invading, with her giant spider-shaped mechanical castle! (Queen of the Demonweb Pits)
A place where the Goddess of FATE AND DESTINY once tested the various classes to determine their worthiness, and in doing so erased HERSELF from existence. (Fate of Istus)
Where ancient Cthulian horrors lurk in the temples of heretics, and the dark Sinking Isle rises from the murk at odd and horrific times. (Halls of the Fire Giant King, and Greyhawk Adventures)
Where a fallen meteor turned a dwarven mining town into a veritable Night of the Living Dead. (Greyhawk Adventures)

In short, at least in MY opinion (which, with $2.50 at a cheap Starbucks will buy you a small cup of coffee), the viewpoint that the WotC Development crew need to truly understand Greyhawk is this:

GREYHAWK IS WHERE THE WEIRD **** HAPPENS!
#2
OleOneEye
Dec 16, 2008 5:29:24 Greyhawk - classic Swords & Sorcery
#3
ciaran
Dec 16, 2008 13:41:38 Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk are too close for someone not actually familiar with them. People have a preference for one or the other. Unfortunately, FR paperbacks really took off years ago and GH was left in the sea of dust.
#4
sirpatricshieldstrik
Dec 17, 2008 5:48:38 You forgot "Isle of the Ape" where D&D's version of King Kong lives and the shamans give virgin sacrifices to the giant ape. Also don't forget that Greyhawk has psionics too so any kind of campaign you want can be done in Greyhawk, so the only limit in Greyhawk is imagination. You could even transport your FR guys to Greyhawk and see what happens.
#5
sirpatricshieldstrik
Dec 17, 2008 5:57:19
Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk are too close for someone not actually familiar with them. People have a preference for one or the other. Unfortunately, FR paperbacks really took off years ago and GH was left in the sea of dust.

It's too bad to, I wish they would do a collection of short stories for Greyhawk by some of the better known writers like Weis and Hickman, Salvatore, or even Knack.
#6
drowbattlemind
Jan 07, 2009 20:33:46
It's too bad to, I wish they would do a collection of short stories for Greyhawk by some of the better known writers like Weis and Hickman, Salvatore, or even Knack.

In my opinion, other than Gary G. himself, the best Greyhawk writer so far has been Paul Kidd. I loved his Justicar trilogy, even though an editorial slip up made his first novel White Plume Mountain (instead of Against The Giants, which went to Ru Emerson instead.)

I understand what you mean, though, as so far the Realms have gotten all the best PR push through the novels and practically nothing for Greyhawk...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 drowbattlemind Dec 14, 2008 16:53:49	I think one of the main problems with Greyhawk, to the Development crew at WotC, is that many of the other campaign worlds can be easily summed up in just one or two sentences, if not one or two words. Let's look at some of the other campaign worlds they've actually done well for (or plan to), and you'll see a pattern emerge: Forgotten Realms - Classic High Fantasy, with a rich history. Eberron - Steampunk fantasy combined with High Pulp Romace. Dragonlance - Epic struggles between good and evil Dragon armies. Planescape - Belief determines Reality. Spelljammer - ELVES IN SPAAAAAACE!!!!!!!!!!! Ravenloft - GOTHIC HORROR. Dark Sun - Post-apocalyptic fantasy, where magic and psionics clash. And Greyhawk? They're not quite sure how to get a "handle" on Greyhawk, really, since when you step back and take a long look at the other settings, they ALL take a tiny smidgen of classic Greyhawk lore and exaggerate it, building an entire campaign around that one facet. Now, a lot of people go on about how Greyhawk is "Classic Low Fantasy", which is not entirely true (it is, but only at low levels), and that outlook muddles the water, I think, since it seems to just be a grittier version of the FR when you look at it from that perspective. That does Greyhawk a disservice, in my opinion. Greyhawk is so much MORE than that. Greyhawk is where we have an entire Sea of DUST, and frozen land where the ice is actually BLACK! Where ancient artifacts are found, and lost, and found again! A world where there are Demon-ruled lands, and kingdoms of Kung-Fu Nazi's. Where spaceships crash and adventurers have to battle androids and mutants at least ONCE a campaign! (Expedition to the Barrier Peaks) Where a goddess of Evil came THIS CLOSE to physically invading, with her giant spider-shaped mechanical castle! (Queen of the Demonweb Pits) A place where the Goddess of FATE AND DESTINY once tested the various classes to determine their worthiness, and in doing so erased HERSELF from existence. (Fate of Istus) Where ancient Cthulian horrors lurk in the temples of heretics, and the dark Sinking Isle rises from the murk at odd and horrific times. (Halls of the Fire Giant King, and Greyhawk Adventures) Where a fallen meteor turned a dwarven mining town into a veritable Night of the Living Dead. (Greyhawk Adventures) In short, at least in MY opinion (which, with $2.50 at a cheap Starbucks will buy you a small cup of coffee), the viewpoint that the WotC Development crew need to truly understand Greyhawk is this: GREYHAWK IS WHERE THE WEIRD HAPPENS!
#2 OleOneEye Dec 16, 2008 5:29:24	Greyhawk - classic Swords & Sorcery
#3 ciaran Dec 16, 2008 13:41:38	Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk are too close for someone not actually familiar with them. People have a preference for one or the other. Unfortunately, FR paperbacks really took off years ago and GH was left in the sea of dust.
#4 sirpatricshieldstrik Dec 17, 2008 5:48:38	You forgot "Isle of the Ape" where D&D's version of King Kong lives and the shamans give virgin sacrifices to the giant ape. Also don't forget that Greyhawk has psionics too so any kind of campaign you want can be done in Greyhawk, so the only limit in Greyhawk is imagination. You could even transport your FR guys to Greyhawk and see what happens.
#5 sirpatricshieldstrik Dec 17, 2008 5:57:19	Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk are too close for someone not actually familiar with them. People have a preference for one or the other. Unfortunately, FR paperbacks really took off years ago and GH was left in the sea of dust. It's too bad to, I wish they would do a collection of short stories for Greyhawk by some of the better known writers like Weis and Hickman, Salvatore, or even Knack.
#6 drowbattlemind Jan 07, 2009 20:33:46	It's too bad to, I wish they would do a collection of short stories for Greyhawk by some of the better known writers like Weis and Hickman, Salvatore, or even Knack. In my opinion, other than Gary G. himself, the best Greyhawk writer so far has been Paul Kidd. I loved his Justicar trilogy, even though an editorial slip up made his first novel White Plume Mountain (instead of Against The Giants, which went to Ru Emerson instead.) I understand what you mean, though, as so far the Realms have gotten all the best PR push through the novels and practically nothing for Greyhawk...