My money is on 4th edition.
Doomgrinder will reach it's top, and after a number of world changing occurances, Greyhawk will be left in ruins, evil reigning supreme. Forces such as Iuz the Old, Iggwilv the Witch Queen and Lord Robilar (unless Ruins of Greyhawk is canon) having free reigns of the land.
Although this is merely a prediction, it seems like Doomgrinder is going to be the means by which Wizards moves Greyhawk to 4th edition.
Does this mean that Greyhawk is definitely going to be getting a seat in 4th edition? Will this be the dawn of a new Greyhawk era? We will have to wait and find out!
--Lord Psathus
As I'm scouting the forums for any topics on this, I have noticed that nobody has brought up the recent Living Greyhawk Article on Doomgrinder. So, the tower is obviously counting down. As it says, a great cataclysm is to occur when it's in the right position, and what will this cataclysm be?
There was an article in either Dungeon or Dragon magazines in which a player praised his DM for the way he handled the switch to 3.0 (or 3.5, can't remember). A comet was spotted approaching the campaign world. Prophecies spoke of a coming change. Sounds like that.
If all Doomgrinder does is effect the world at an oddly mechanical level -- "suddenly your dwarf's darkvision begins to function differently and your rogue's rank in lockpicking has rounded up to the nearest 5" -- then it would be anticlimatic.
Will they print another gaz?
I think it's a good idea, but i'm just an average moron barely able to put my pants on in the morning and shovel warm temperature food down my throat...
As for what would be in theoretical gaz? Dunno. I'd like a reasonable 15 - 20 year time gap between editions, tying in LGH material and some other interesting things.
I'm not sure if Greyhawk will be destroyed at the end of Living Greyhawk. It's a bit of an obvious thing to do and, of course, has been done already in the Gord books!
The Doomgrinder was a really evocative location in From the Ashes ... but sadly all the mystery of it was butchered by the module of the same name! Oddly, I still quite like the module and I think the idea behind it (the PCs trying to stop the progress of a massive war machine) was quite original.
The From the Ashes era was a lot like the 'points of light' idea but this was pretty much nixed by the Adventure Begins. I'm not sure it would be a good idea to make the setting a dark, evil-dominated one again.
Frankly, if Greyhawk ISN'T going to have a 4th edition presence, it makes little sense to me to do anything world-altering at the end of 3rd edition. Now, granted, Living Greyhawk isn't necessarily Greyhawk canon. Living Greyhawk is a campaign (a very big one, but still just a campaign, not the game world itself). But any LG scenario should be crafted such that the PCs can STOP the cataclysm. If it's going to happen regardless, then why do it unless there's something for Greyhawk beyond the end of 3rd edition?
Does this mean that Greyhawk is definitely going to be getting a seat in 4th edition? Will this be the dawn of a new Greyhawk era?
The recent Doomgrinder article has nothing to do with D&D 4th Edition and everything to do with a potential element of Living Geyhawk's end next year. The Mysterious Places and Diplomacy Check articles have been used to foreshadow campaign events for the last several years. They don't reach into the game as a whole, and certainly are not part of the effort to communicate information about 4th Edition or the World of Greyhawk's place in it.
That Doomgrinder article is an effort to simply reveal or remind the Living Greyhawk community that the mysterious edifice is still up in the hills. It gets Living Greyhawk players thinking about "what if" scenarios. It's not meant to convey hints about the setting in the next rendition of the D&D rules.
Don (Greyson)
Nyrond Triad
No offense, Don, but I've a good friend who has been on the official Dark Sun website team since before it was official, and I know how forthcoming Wizards of the Coast is with their plans for settings. I am certain that you are honestly relaying what you have been told, but I am also certain that it is not the whole story.
It's just an LG article as many have pointed out. There is nothing horrible behind it (well outside of LG) and Greyhawk is not suddenly getting put in the shred-bin.
Dave C
... the Greyhawk community's five questions...
What five questions are you talking about?
Couldn't help but notice that Wizards apparently isn't interested in the Greyhawk community's five questions... :whatsthis
I think, unfortunatly, Greyhawks 5 questions revolve around one central question in 2 parts
Are we getting an updated setting, and will it be updated through a campaign book, modules, regional sourcebooks, or a combination?
The first part being most important. Obviously.
What five questions are you talking about?
ya I have no clue either but hopefully they don't think I can answer them (cuz I can't . . just FYI there gang)
I think, unfortunatly, Greyhawks 5 questions revolve around one central question in 2 parts
Are we getting an updated setting, and will it be updated through a campaign book, modules, regional sourcebooks, or a combination?
The first part being most important. Obviously.
They have been asked that a lot of times and to date they have no comment on it. That is not surprising though as they probably don't know the answer to that question. We know what is being updated in 2008. We know only one is getting updated in 2008. So asking them about a Greyhawk Campaign book is asking about something that is at least 16 months away and probably more like 20-22 months away at that. I would assume Eberron gets an update before anything else (they have spent to much money on it not to do it from their train of thought) so that is 2009 done. So now we are talking 2010 and 32-36 months away.
So my guess (and I feel pretty solid on it) is that they are not answering the question because there is not an answer for it. It might or might not happen depending on how the winds blow between now and then.
Dave C
Are we getting an updated setting...
I think we're getting ground doom.
I bet it tastes like coriander. :D
My opinion it's an apocalyptic level event smack in the center of the campaign map. They're either revamping or completely nixing Greyhawk.
In my opinion, that's fine since I prefer to just update the World of Greyhawk boxed set (576 CY) instead of any of the alternatives. The wars never happened in my Greyhawk, and probably won't ever happen.
No offense, Don, but I've a good friend who has been on the official Dark Sun website team since before it was official, and I know how forthcoming Wizards of the Coast is with their plans for settings.
Odd, those websites (the official fansites) did not become official until after those settings were dead. The people involved had no special line of information at the time of the cancelling of the settings.
"2 Minutes to Midnight/the hands that threaten doom/2 minutes to midnight/to kill the unborn in the womb/midnight, all night, midnight, it's all right..."
Wooh-HOOOH! Iron Maiden!
(since there's no guitar smiley)My opinion it's an apocalyptic level event smack in the center of the campaign map. They're either revamping or completely nixing Greyhawk.
In my opinion, that's fine since I prefer to just update the World of Greyhawk boxed set (576 CY) instead of any of the alternatives. The wars never happened in my Greyhawk, and probably won't ever happen.
They did in mine, but then, I've got plans for my Greyhawk for 4E, so whatever plans they may or may not have don't affect mine too much.
I've already resolved that even if we don't get a Greyhawk book for 4E, I'll pick up the FR book for mechanical crunch and apply (selected portions of) that to my Greyhawk game, plus any modifications I like from the main rulebook and my own campaign requirements.
Well, if there was going to be a new LG campaign in 4th edition, you'd probably see armies of new NPCs rushing in from every corner of existence given the new online play. Despite saying their new primary campaign setting will be FR, I don't recall them saying they are ending LG. So don't worry, I'm pretty sure its still there.
They are ending it. It's been stated already. The ending involves the Doomgrinder and will be, according to LG officials, explosive.
WoC editor #1: "Hmm. We've got this new 4th edition coming out soon. How can we update the WoG so we don't lose too many customers of the Gygax flock?"
WoC editor #2: "I know! Let's blow up the world with Doomgrinder!"
WoC editor #1: "Yeah! We've never had a catarophe in a campaign setting before... It will be a [i]total[i] surprise! They will never see it coming!
They are ending it. It's been stated already. The ending involves the Doomgrinder and will be, according to LG officials, explosive.
Unlikely.
I took this quote from a post to the LG boards made by Chris Tulach:
"Campaigns Concluding
Living Greyhawk has been the face of organized play for the 3rd Edition D&D game. Tremendously successful, thousands participate worldwide in the biggest shared-world D&D game anywhere. LG has been around since the beginning of 3rd Edition, and it will last to the end of the 3rd Edition product line. Starting with a two-round special at D&D Experience 2008 (February 28 – March 2), the campaign will begin its final story arc – a series of core adventures that will build into the climactic two-round finale at Origins 2008. We’re pulling out all the stops in these final adventures – no major NPC is off-limits, and you’re really going to be a part of the most world-affecting story arc we’ve ever done. We’re getting some of the best authors to ever write for Living Greyhawk to help with these adventures – what the Circle has planned is nothing short of amazing. While the campaign concludes at Origins next year, it is our sincerest desire to provide you an epic conclusion to the campaign we all love so much."
There's nothing about explosions or the Doomgrinder in there. The Doomgrinder article did come out on WotC's website shortly after the campaign was announced, but no correlation has been made.
I've played CORS8-01 Whispers of the Obsidian Citadel, fully one half of the final core story arc, and it has nothing to do with the Doomgrinder. While that could change, I think you need a source for your claim.