Divinity feats?
Rituals?
Monsters?
I am working on my own and wanted to take a look at other people have done.
anyone?
Hmm I guess Greyhawk is truly dead.
Time to get working on its ressurection.
Aside from the fact that 4e has only just come out, I would suggest that a high proportion of Greyhawk fans are like myself planning to stick with 3.5 or an earlier edition.
Hmm...,ok I will ask this again in a months time.
;)
So have you guys come up with greyhawk conversions for 4e?
Divinity feats?
Rituals?
Monsters?
I am working on my own and wanted to take a look at other people have done.
I have not done anything yet, but I'll probably take the easy way out and just rename some of the stuff out of the phb. I'm hoping that living greyhawk will continue with 4e, so we get the gods updated. I have been playing in greyhawk since the early 80's and have no plans to change now.
I have not done anything yet, but I'll probably take the easy way out and just rename some of the stuff out of the phb. I'm hoping that living greyhawk will continue with 4e, so we get the gods updated. I have been playing in greyhawk since the early 80's and have no plans to change now.
IIRC LG dies with 3.5, it will not be upgraded to 4e.
[INDENT]Throughout the 1980s, the game experienced remarkable
growth. Novels, a cartoon series, computer games, and the
first campaign settings (FORGOTTEN REALMS and DRAGONLANCE)
were released[/INDENT]
It seems Greyhawk cannnot be discontinued or abandoned - because now it never existed.
I'm a bit ****** at the abandonment myself - Greyhawk has always seemed a good setting for DnD games, especially for low level parties.
From the 4e PHB Page 11
[INDENT]Throughout the 1980s, the game experienced remarkable
growth. Novels, a cartoon series, computer games, and the
first campaign settings (FORGOTTEN REALMS and DRAGONLANCE)
were released[/INDENT]
It seems Greyhawk cannnot be discontinued or abandoned - because now it never existed.
I'm a bit ****** at the abandonment myself - Greyhawk has always seemed a good setting for DnD games, especially for low level parties.
Glaring error, mostly. let's not fall to that territory.
From the 4e PHB Page 11
[INDENT]Throughout the 1980s, the game experienced remarkable
growth. Novels, a cartoon series, computer games, and the
first campaign settings (FORGOTTEN REALMS and DRAGONLANCE)
were released[/INDENT]
either this was a HUGE error, or greyhawk was not considered a "campaign setting" but more of just a premade world.
still no love from WOTC for greyhawk fans. I doubt we will see errata on this either.
It seems Greyhawk cannnot be discontinued or abandoned - because now it never existed.
Phooey. I've still got maps, gazetteers, adventures, notes...
I was hoping the Canonfire 4e forum would be useful, but it's, so far anyway, filled with people whingeing that "4e destroyed Greyhawk, 4e destroyed D&D," on and on. (For what it's worth, I think 4e feels much more like 'classic' D&D than 3e ever did.)
So, anyone got a good suggestion of where we can go to work? (I'd rather not here -- sorry WotC, but having all of us old-worlders jammed in here together, it's a bit crowded...) Maybe we should just hop over to Canonfire and shove the naysayers off the 4e board...
So, maybe someone is thinking about Greyhawk in 4th Edition...
Whaaa...?
anyone?
Hmm I guess Greyhawk is truly dead.
Time to get working on its ressurection.
Phooey. I've still got maps, gazetteers, adventures, notes...
I was hoping the Canonfire 4e forum would be useful, but it's, so far anyway, filled with people whingeing that "4e destroyed Greyhawk, 4e destroyed D&D," on and on. (For what it's worth, I think 4e feels much more like 'classic' D&D than 3e ever did.)
So, anyone got a good suggestion of where we can go to work? (I'd rather not here -- sorry WotC, but having all of us old-worlders jammed in here together, it's a bit crowded...) Maybe we should just hop over to Canonfire and shove the naysayers off the 4e board...
As one website I just now stumbled across put it:
At first I thought Fourth Edition was just 3.5 dumbed down, but now I realize, Fourth Edition is 1st Edition AD&D ON STEROIDS
After all , who're we to let the Misbegotten Realms and EberWrong edge us out of D&D mainstream???
We Greyhawkers CREATED the idea of a published campaign World!
Where were Drow first allowed as Player Characters?
Greyhawk! (Unearthed Arcana, 1st ed AD&D)
Which campaign world FIRST introduced the Monk, the Bard, the Paladin, the Barbarian, the Half-Orc, and Half-Ogres?
Greyhawk! (1st ed AD&D PHB, Unearthed Arcana, & Dragon Magazine #29 & 73)
Which game world first introduced Lovecraftian elements such as The Elder Elemental God and Tharizdun?
Greyhawk!
Which World was the first to feature an adventure module which crossed a sci-fi setting there?
Greyhawk! (Expedition To The Barrier Peaks, and thank you, Greyson for reminding me)
And Which world's fans are not going to let the screw up of marketing (or WHOEVER did that sidebar, which is on page 7 of my 4E PHB-1 book, incidentally) shuffle us off into obscurity?
GREYHAWK, THAT'S WHO!!!
Which world's fans are not going to let the screw up of marketing (or WHOEVER did that sidebar, which is on page 7 of my 4E PHB-1 book, incidentally) shuffle us off into obscurity?
GREYHAWK, THAT'S WHO!!!
We, the fans of Greyhawk, have not needed novels to support our world. Neither have we needed tons of UberNPCs (just makes having actual PCs pointless IMHO), Machina (When I want sci-fi, I play Gamma World!), planejumping (can be fun, but as a setting? Not for me.), or any of the fluff that has been dolled out over the course of 20 years (note: only 20 compared to about 30 for the original setting).
We have had the world in our own hands to make or break as we saw fit. I'm glad there are those of us who want to continue to make it.
Thanks everyone!
Great gaming
Be well in all things,
Rave
We, the fans of Greyhawk, have not needed novels to support our world. Neither have we needed tons of UberNPCs (just makes having actual PCs pointless IMHO), Machina (When I want sci-fi, I play Gamma World!), planejumping (can be fun, but as a setting? Not for me.), or any of the fluff that has been dolled out over the course of 20 years (note: only 20 compared to about 30 for the original setting).
Maybe it hasn't needed them, but the World of Greyhawk has had published fiction ("Expedition Into the Black Reservoir", "Gnome Cache" appeared before other TSR settings'), plenty of high-level characters, SF elements (indeed, some of its spirit is drawn from early-20th-century fiction from before fantasy and SF were seen as distinct), and planar wandering (EX1-2, Q1, S4's pocket planes, the quasi-deities, the Gord novels, Rob Kuntz's City of Brass, and so on) from its beginning.
As one website I just now stumbled across put it:
After all , who're we to let the Misbegotten Realms and EberWrong edge us out of D&D mainstream???
We Greyhawkers CREATED the idea of a published campaign World!
Where were Drow first allowed as Player Characters?
Greyhawk! (Unearthed Arcana, 1st ed AD&D)
Which campaign world FIRST introduced the Monk, the Bard, the Paladin, the Barbarian, the Half-Orc, and Half-Ogres?
Greyhawk! (1st ed AD&D PHB, Unearthed Arcana, & Dragon Magazine #29 & 73)
Which game world first introduced Lovecraftian elements such as The Elder Elemental God and Tharizdun?
Greyhawk!
Which World was the first to feature an adventure module which crossed a sci-fi setting there?
Greyhawk! (Expedition To The Barrier Peaks, and thank you, Greyson for reminding me)
And Which world's fans are not going to let the screw up of marketing (or WHOEVER did that sidebar, which is on page 7 of my 4E PHB-1 book, incidentally) shuffle us off into obscurity?
GREYHAWK, THAT'S WHO!!!
So have you guys come up with greyhawk conversions for 4e?
Divinity feats?
Rituals?
Monsters?
I am working on my own and wanted to take a look at other people have done.
Not come up with any of the above yet but despite my skepticism prior to release, I intend to use 4E in Greyhawk. Currently am working on converting Red Hand of Doom to be set in western Sterich in 579CY and to cover the whole of the Heroic Tier. Intend to follow this with conversions of Expedition to Castle Ravenloft and Expedition to the Demonweb Pits for Paragon at least. Not got a campaign conclusion yet but working on it.
I split the first round into 3 separate fights and this was actually the most fun part. What we found was that without a controller, the elves were really hard to pin down and bloodied one of the pcs. I think some of the villains' stats (or at least their attack rolls) need to be modified to remain consistent threats to the pcs as the arcane archer (ranger & warlock powers) was far easier to take down despite being higher level. The other groups were much easier to defeat because they had to get into melee to shine. My recommendation would probably be to increase the levels of the npcs by one or just increase their attack rolls by one or two to enhance the threat a bit.
The sons of Kyuss were ok at level 5 as long as they have a reasonable chance of hitting with one or two worms. The pcs need to inflict radiant damage before the worms burrow under the skin to destroy them. With limited ways to cure disease in combat, they become a little scarier once they're under your skin (ongoing necrotic damage is good, with nasty effects once pc becomes bloodied).
The elite dwarves I converted using the barbarian playtest and they were quite fun but didn't deal as much in the way of damage as I had hoped. I think adding a third elite dwarf, possibly a controller, would make the fight more interesting if the dwarf could slow down the pcs and give the lads a chance to gang up.
Madtooth the Hungry was a bit dull. He is so stupid that I didn't feel I could justify playing him too tactically and this made the fight a bit dull as his damage was a bit too low. It did end up being a slugfest but they cleverly outfoxed his bite using a Ring of Blink and forced movement.
Fighting the Apostle of Kyuss was the most fun but focusing on Auric minimised the risks for the pcs. You need to spend no more than 2 rounds before swallowing him so you can focus on the pcs. I'd recommend using dramatic licence to keep the npcs out of the fight there.
The only Greyhawk specific thing I've done so far is Olidammara's Laughing Rogue - a Divinity Fat akin to the Bard Hideous Laughter Power but with no damage and confined to the end of the next round.
Next we're hunting down Lareth and then off to the Keep of Adlerweg for a holiday. Fun!
either this was a HUGE error, or greyhawk was not considered a "campaign setting" but more of just a premade world.
still no love from WOTC for greyhawk fans. I doubt we will see errata on this either.
I think they just forgot the word "boxed". FR and DragonLance were sold as a pre-made packaged world in a box Greyhawk wasn't. It was treated as the core setting in those days.
I think they just forgot the word "boxed". FR and DragonLance were sold as a pre-made packaged world in a box Greyhawk wasn't.
Yes it was. I can see my boxed World of Greyhawk fantasy game setting and my boxed From the Ashes on the shelf as I type this.
http://www.cmc.net/~rtaylor/greyhawk/modules.html
Worse, a lot of the lore that originated in Greyhak was passed to other worlds with no mention. Drizzt would be nothing without Lloth and Lloth came from Greyhawk! And, that is only the tip of the iceberg.
It's unfortunate a decision was made to not continue Greyhawk.
As one website I just now stumbled across put it:
After all , who're we to let the Misbegotten Realms and EberWrong edge us out of D&D mainstream???
We Greyhawkers CREATED the idea of a published campaign World!
Where were Drow first allowed as Player Characters?
Greyhawk! (Unearthed Arcana, 1st ed AD&D)
Which campaign world FIRST introduced the Monk, the Bard, the Paladin, the Barbarian, the Half-Orc, and Half-Ogres?
Greyhawk! (1st ed AD&D PHB, Unearthed Arcana, & Dragon Magazine #29 & 73)
Which game world first introduced Lovecraftian elements such as The Elder Elemental God and Tharizdun?
Greyhawk!
Which World was the first to feature an adventure module which crossed a sci-fi setting there?
Greyhawk! (Expedition To The Barrier Peaks, and thank you, Greyson for reminding me)
And Which world's fans are not going to let the screw up of marketing (or WHOEVER did that sidebar, which is on page 7 of my 4E PHB-1 book, incidentally) shuffle us off into obscurity?
GREYHAWK, THAT'S WHO!!!
Sir, you are an inspiration for us all.
We, the fans of Greyhawk, have not needed novels to support our world. Neither have we needed tons of UberNPCs (just makes having actual PCs pointless IMHO), Machina (When I want sci-fi, I play Gamma World!), planejumping (can be fun, but as a setting? Not for me.), or any of the fluff that has been dolled out over the course of 20 years (note: only 20 compared to about 30 for the original setting).
We have had the world in our own hands to make or break as we saw fit. I'm glad there are those of us who want to continue to make it.
Thanks everyone!
Great gaming
Be well in all things,
Rave
-Wiping the tears away-
Sir, you are an inspiration for us all.
Thanks.
It's just that I started gaming back in the EARLY 1980's, just a year after the WoG boxed set first came out, and ever since then, Greyhawk has been "home" to me, far more so than Mystara (where I actually started, playing out of the old blue Expert Set box) or the Forgotten Realms.
Don't get me wrong, I actually bear no ill will towards the Realms or Eberron, having had quite a bit of fun playing there, too, over the years, but it irks me a bit to see folks forget just where most of those "innovations" actually started out at, in the rush to look at the "new and shiny".
Like I said, for me, Greyhawk is just plain home.
But I can do without the Hollywood stuff and cataclysms around every corner as happened in the FR. A more rational historical development would be more to my liking.
Havard
I think they just forgot the word "boxed". FR and DragonLance were sold as a pre-made packaged world in a box Greyhawk wasn't. It was treated as the core setting in those days.
Greyhawk was sold in a box too. In 1983, the World of Greyhawk boxed set was published. I bought my copy in 1990 or thereabouts at Waldenbooks, and it's sitting on my shelf right now. It was very much a pre-made, packaged world in a box. The Forgotten Realms boxed set didn't come out until four years later.
The difference between a campaign setting and a "pre-made world" is nonexistent anyway; they're the same thing - that's what a campaign setting is. There's no real difference in the way that Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms campaign settings were presented; both contained gazetteers of the countries, descriptions of different races, and accompanying adventures and novels.
From the 4e PHB Page 11
[INDENT]Throughout the 1980s, the game experienced remarkable
growth. Novels, a cartoon series, computer games, and the
first campaign settings (FORGOTTEN REALMS and DRAGONLANCE)
were released[/INDENT]
It seems Greyhawk cannnot be discontinued or abandoned - because now it never existed.
I'm a bit ****** at the abandonment myself - Greyhawk has always seemed a good setting for DnD games, especially for low level parties.
Personally, I suspect that this is not intended to be a deliberate sign that Greyhawk has been abandoned, nor is it an absent-minded slip up. I suspect that when this part of the PHB was written, there were not yet any firm plans to make Greyhawk a 4E setting and there still may not be.
FR was confirmed as the first setting and DL has ongoing novel coverage but GH at the moment has not confirmed future products. Listing it in the intro could have raised expectations among the fan base (ie. us) that may not be realised. Equally, new players may have been confused by a reference to a setting that for all intents and purposes does not exist at present in 4E.
Personally, I have not given up hope that we will see 4E GH in 2010 or 2011 but if not, I've got material that I can convert to last me through at least half a dozen campaigns. As long as we keep the setting alive from previous published material and fan-created material, it will never die.
Elsir Vale from the Scales of War - Dungeon magazine adventure path can be inserted into Ahlissa. Change the town names and off you go.
Nentir Vale from the DMG could fit into Perrenland or Ket, or Duchy of Tehn if you are running a Pre War campaign.
Avandra = Halfing name for Fharlaghn.
Bane = Dwarven name for Hextor.
Erathis = Dwarven name for St Cuthbert.
Ioun = Elven name for Boccob.
Melora = Elven name for Beory.
Raven Queen = Halfling name for Istus.
Sehanine = Halfling name for Ehlonnah.
I agree with some of your deity conversions but Ioun and Sehanine exist in their own right in Greyhawk. In some ways I like the idea of there being no 'racial' deities because it makes more sense to have different 'aspects' of a god rather than hundreds of deities for every race and far too much human love. Since the Raven Queen officially killed Nerull (!) I think we're going to have to persuade some fans to write him up.
Raven Queen exhibits some traits of both Istus and Wee Jas but isn't really a good fit for either. I think Wee Jas (being a death goddess) is a closer fit and she is also the lover of Kord. I really dislike the way Vecna has been catapaulted into deity mega-stardom while other major deities like Nerull has been killed off. Some tradtional deities are also cropping up as exarchs. Maglubyet has turned up as a level 30 solo Exarch of Bane. It will take a lot of time, but we might even get some articles on Greyhawk specific deities in Dragon as time goes on.
As for Nerull being killed off, well alot of time has past, you can always have Nerull injured and returns but weaker, greater to intermediate status etc
With Vecna I can't find a reference to the power level of the standard gods from the PHB, so some may be greater gods like Pelor while others like Vecna may be only lesser gods or demi gods.
I can't justify Vecna or Torog being more than lesser gods, they just would not have that many followers or widespread influence.
Greyhawk is great and I will continue to run games in it regardless whether WOTC support it or not.
So I wonder which setting 4th edition will favor most?
With Vecna I can't find a reference to the power level of the standard gods from the PHB, so some may be greater gods like Pelor while others like Vecna may be only lesser gods or demi gods.
I can't justify Vecna or Torog being more than lesser gods, they just would not have that many followers or widespread influence.
Some gods, particularly Lolth and Vecna gained massive power boosts as time went on. Lolth because she was upgraded from demon lord to full deity in Forgotten Realms and Vecna because his quest for power was detailed in a series of modules.
It will be quite easy to keep Lolth as a demon in 4e since the gods and demon lords are build in an identical fashion. As demon lords go Lolth was probably roughly equal in power to Yeenoghu so it shouldn't be too hard to tweak her if she needs tweaking at all.
I think that if you are faithful to the Greyhawk setting and haven't run the Vecna modules then Vecna should remain a demi-god whose principle reputation is as an infamous lich of legend, worshipped only by a handful of underground cultists.
Demi-gods tend to be statted as elite low-to mid-epic level monsters. I had a look at Vecna's aspect, which is probably closer in power to his demi-god status but it looks so boring. I think I'd be inclined to give him some magical spells or magical items more suitable for one of the most powerful liches of all time, particularly recognisable utility spells while possibly putting some spell-like overlay onto his more basic blasting powers just to make them more interesting.
On the god's list, I was using Melora as Ehlonna. I like Erathis as Cuthbert - that fits nicely. I too was having trouble with the Raven Queen. I think I am going to use Wee Jas, but a particular aspect of her - the LN branch of her church knows her as that, and ignores the "evil" side of here.
I made Ioun Istus in my Scales of War conversion - Ioun exists in GH, but is too weak for the role 4E seems to give her. Boccob is another good choice, but as the Uncaring one, he doesn't seem to fit the personality.
ROB
Some gods, particularly Lolth and Vecna gained massive power boosts as time went on. Lolth because she was upgraded from demon lord to full deity in Forgotten Realms
No, she was noted as having the powers of a lesser deity way back in Deities & Demigods (1980) - as all demon lords, slaad lords, Princes of Elemental Evil and so on were.
In Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits (also published in 1980), we have the line: "As a lesser goddess, Lolth has certain attributes common to all divine beings." (page 32) It's a myth that she somehow wasn't always portrayed as a true goddess as well as a queen of demons. It does note that the DM may optionally choose not to include these powers if it makes her too tough an opponent.
It's just that gods in general got massive power boosts in 2nd edition and 3rd edition, so only then did we get a distinction between demon lords and deities so that some demon lords (like Graz'zt and Pazrael in Iuz the Evil and Planes of Chaos, and all the fiendish lords in Book of Vile Darkness and subsequent books) would still be within the power of player characters to fight.
The new rules seem to be headed more towards 1e power levels but some of the gods, like Vecna seem a bit dull and limited as a result. As a god he seems to have less interesting abilities than his Hand and Eye. It seems quite tricky to retain the flavour of the old deities within the new mechanics. Lolth will probably be easier to mimic than most.
Raven Queen exhibits some traits of both Istus and Wee Jas but isn't really a good fit for either.
The Raven Queen is very likely an aspect of Wee Jas.
From 4e MotP:
"hers is a mighty stronghold, cut from black ice that sparkles with new snow"
from 3e MotP:
"Ocanthus, a sheet of infinite, magically charged black ice."
"Wee Jas, the Witch Goddess of Death and Magic, keeps her realm on Ocanthus. Built on the surface of the boundary ice is a crystalline castle"
What was the canonical story about that place?
The Horned Society
ruled by:
The Dread and Awful Presences, the Hierarchs (true names unknown)
Capital: Molag (pop 16200)
Population: 45000(?)
Demi-humans: Very doubtful
Hmanoids: Hobgoblins (12000), others
Resources: None known
Originally a stronghold of the more organized of the humanoid tribes, the area came under the rule of a group of evil humans some decades ago. It is speculated that these wicked people were disaffected bandits or were at least aided by one or more of the bandit kinglets. In any case, the land between the Veng and Ritensa Rivers as far north as the territory of the Rovers of the Barrens is now firmly in the grasp of the Horned Society. This association combines the masses of humanoid troops with the organization and powers of humans. Deviltry is the religion of the Society, and its leading Hierach is purported to be an evil high priest of the 18th level. Other leaders are reported as a magic-user above the 12th level of ability, several other powerful clerics, a master thief of the 13th rank, and a trio of fighter Lords. It is known that many troops of bandits from the east frequent the walled town of Molag, and the Horned Society is on favorable terms with Iuz.
That said I think it is safe to bet that most if not all tieflings would have roots in the Great Kingdom as it is here that summoning and making deals with infernal beings was very rampant. Who would argue against one of the noble families having tieflings as members due to pacts made with demons/devils?
Another option would be the empire of Iuz.
Here's my take on Dragonborn and Tieflings for Greyhawk -
Dragonborn : Have immigrated to Flanaess, mostly to Keoland and the Duchy of Urnst over the last ten years. Some fifteen thousand have come, especially in the last 4 years. Think 10+ galleons sailing at the same time. They mention a homeland, a great empire lost in a massive war. They have been regarded with suspicion by some, but most are happy for anyone willing to help fight against Humanoids, undead or fiends.
Tieflings : Have been seen within the Bone March and Horned Society land before the Greyhawk Wars, and in Ket and southern Great Kingdom after the wars. People speculate whether hundreds or thousands of Tieflings roam the lands of Flanaess, but all are sure they are growing in numbers.
As for the new PHB2 races, I can see Shifters in Verse Forest and Gnarley Wood. Half Orcs were always in Greyhawk.
Really not sure about Goliath and Deva races.
Gnomes are just plain evil. Just ask anyone who's ever played Nethack :P
Iuz has a number of prominent teiflings in his service but I agree that the Horned Society is the prime candidate for the largest numbers. A few in the Great Kingdom and Old Almor would also be available.
Shifters fit perfectly into the respective Wolf and Tiger Nomads - I'd cast them as the 'chosen few' within normal tribes. Possibly Amedian, Olman, and Touv would also fit well.
I agree Dragonborn need to be imported. I just brought a few in as an honour guard of Resbin Dren Emondav in Sterich to add to her mystique but ships of mercenaries would work too. You might also tuck a few away with the Frost, Ice, & Snow Barbarians.
Genasi I'm adding to the Baklunish Lands since they have a history with elemental magic and the Zasshasir of Ekbir in particular.
Goliath and Deva are problematic. I was thinking of putting Goliath in Esmerin in the Lortmils with the halflings and stone giants, the mountains of Ull, the Griff, Corusk, and possibly Yatil Mountains. You could even re-cast Deva as ancestors of the Wind Dukes of Aqaa
I think Deva have to be sequestered in mountain monasteries or tucked away with secret organisations like the Silent Ones of Keoland.
Once you have a rough idea where you want them to be based it's easy to justify a backstory for a pc.
Do Teiflings breed true? Are they a distinct race IYC or a mule or hybrid?
IMGHC Teifling are the result of pacts and pairings between humans and diabolic beings. A pair of teifling that has a child has an equal chance of producing a human as they do a teifling and a tiefling can be born to humans who have not had a teifling in the family for generations. Example would be that great great great great aunt nelly had a demonic pact that brought forth a Teifling. Her bloodline from that point on will be tainted with the diabolic essence of that pact and any of her direct descendants could produce a teifling child which depending on the situation would cause quite a shock.
I do not allow Dragonborn and have not made my mind up about Deva. If I do allow Deva they will be so rare as for it to be unheard of to see three together in one place. The idea that there may be a town or what have you with Deva community is not something I am willing to allow.
Shifters are considered touched by the Gods by the barbarian wolf and tiger nomads and though rare are not unheard of and not a surprise to see leading a clan as druid or shaman.
Goliaths live in the hellfurnaces and the chrystalmists and are just a bigger and hardier human Suel offshoot. They tend to keep to themselves but occasionally come down from the highlands to trade, raid, and sometimes work as mercenaries or craftsmen. Many Goliath clans have been displaced into the north and into more civilized realms by the giant attack in Geoff but just as many goliath clans are allied with the giants.
So have you guys come up with greyhawk conversions for 4e?
Divinity feats?
Rituals?
Monsters?
I am working on my own and wanted to take a look at other people have done.
I have a feeling most of us who are into Greyhawk don't like 4th ed. I know I don't.
I have a feeling most of us who are into Greyhawk don't like 4th ed. I know I don't.
That is a rather large assumption to make. I am a Greyhawk fan and I love 4th edition.
I'm running a large dungeon based campaign, so I haven't thought too much on how it fits into the overall scheme of Greyhawk. But again, that's Greyhawk to me.
If there was a 4e treatment of Greyhawk (which I don't think is coming, I think/hope Dark Sun would be next), there would probably be a new class in the players guide (like the Swordmage and the Artificer). What would that new class be for Greyhawk?
What is most important is that my Players LOVE 4e mechanics above older editions. They feel more like heroes, try more heroic things, and are really enjoying the game a lot. It has taken a little while to cut our teeth on it, but it plays well. And as a DM, in a world with lots of active NPCs, I find that it is easier to prep for 4E. 3E was a nightmare to prep a high level NPC for!
We intend to convert our 3E epic party to 4E and finish out some of the last campaign we were playing as well. I can't wait to see how that goes.
ROB
Seconded. I have many fond memories of Greyhawk and would love to see a 4e take on it. Perhaps a poll is in order?
Nah, it's not a situation where we have to decide anything as a community. It's a matter of personal taste, and it's fine for individuals to go their own way. That'd be like a poll to determine whether or not cake was good. You can eat cake, or not eat cake, and if someone doesn't want to eat cake it doesn't affect the cake-eaters at all. Except there's more cake for them. So maybe that's not a good analogy, because people not playing 4e don't cause there to be more 4e for everyone else. But, you know, if there are just a bunch of people on the internet talking about cake, just because I decline cake doesn't mean you get more, because you're all the way on the other side of the internet, and I can't share my cake with you. I can share my 4e with you, which is what this thread is about, but I don't need a poll to do that.
So in retrospect it is a perfect analogy. In a cake poll, the only result is that the people in the majority get to point fingers and laugh at the people not in the majority, and that's not good for anyone. Except the people in the majority, I guess, but who cares about them? Probably the majority of people, actually, but my point is that we can point and laugh at people without a poll. So let's all start pointing and laughing at each other, and leave this nasty polling business behind us.
Veronus
Ranger of The Gnarley Forest
I'd prefer *NEW* adventures and other material rather than just conversions of old material.
Maybe they will bring it back. It is supposed to be the default (not pol) so there is always a chance.
Purely for commercial reasons we should see a 4E Greyhawk. WotC are committed to producing one setting a year and Greyhawk still has a reasonable fan base so I'm betting it will be the 2012 setting. Next year will be Dragonlance but after that.......
Look at the age of the average player when When G1,2,3 came out. Look at the average age of the people who played it in its hey day.
This is a group of gamers that have probably raised children, this is a demographies with disposable income AND a love for all things nostalgic.
It's almost a crime against shareholders to NOT produce the original setting with 4e~
The Greyhawk setting was on of the best role playing fantasy world ever release. It was high quality, had contiguous settings and adventures, good political factions, and a rich history.
While I am at it, I would also like WoTC to release minis individually, and a pony*~
*with horseshoes of speed, obviosly.
After all, it does seem to be a D&D tradition to completely retcon that area with each new edition of D&D. Between that and all the feats and backgrounds in the Character Builder with references to Greyhawk geography, it seems like a possibility...
We've certainly retconned Dragonborn from the Far West but we kept all the original fluff for tieflings.
I've done something similar but made dragonborn a slave race of the Suel that they used as troops, guards and battlefield fodder. Haven't decided on precise origins yet but that explains a spread throughout the Flanaess.
I've also made the Baklunish into genasi and the Suel into Tieflings though both with less obvious non-human features. I also don't like genasi for the Wolf and Tiger Nomads so may use shifters for them. The Flan may also become goliaths but not sure about that yet.
This is all borrowing heavily from posts elsewhere on this board so thanks to the original posters for the ideas.
I've also made the Baklunish into genasi
Genasi as Baklunes would flavor quite well and emphasize how Baklune culture is different from the central Flanneass. It would seem odd, to me, for genasi to be horse nomads, so perhaps various forms of elemental creatures as mounts for the Paynims.
Hmmm....perhaps each of the Baklune nations is dominated by a different type of genasi? Paynim fiery guys, Ekbir windy guys, Tusmit earthy guys, Zief watery guys.
I've also made the Baklunish into genasi
Genasi as Baklunes would flavor quite well and emphasize how Baklune culture is different from the central Flanneass. It would seem odd, to me, for genasi to be horse nomads, so perhaps various forms of elemental creatures as mounts for the Paynims.
Hmmm....perhaps each of the Baklune nations is dominated by a different type of genasi? Paynim fiery guys, Ekbir windy guys, Tusmit earthy guys, Zief watery guys.
I like this idea. That would make things interesting amongst the Baklunish states. What if each genasi sub-race emphasised a different aspect of the One True Faith? This would give the potential for religious tension and border wars.
The history of the region could also be retconned to explain past conflicts through this new dynamic. Very interesting......
We've certainly retconned Dragonborn from the Far West but we kept all the original fluff for tieflings.
I've done something similar but made dragonborn a slave race of the Suel that they used as troops, guards and battlefield fodder. Haven't decided on precise origins yet but that explains a spread throughout the Flanaess.
Could the Dragonborn have been developed by the SB down in Hepmonaland and the Amedio Jungle?
It could be one explanation for at least one ship departing Ekul for Hepmonaland every day. (LG Gazeteer, under Scarlet Brotherhood)
We've certainly retconned Dragonborn from the Far West but we kept all the original fluff for tieflings.
I've done something similar but made dragonborn a slave race of the Suel that they used as troops, guards and battlefield fodder. Haven't decided on precise origins yet but that explains a spread throughout the Flanaess.
Could the Dragonborn have been developed by the SB down in Hepmonaland and the Amedio Jungle?
It could be one explanation for at least one ship departing Ekul for Hepmonaland every day. (LG Gazeteer, under Scarlet Brotherhood)
Also a good idea but personally, I am going for ancient slaves from the days of the Empire itself. It also creates some interesting tensions with the Baklunish who fought dragonborn during their wars with the Suel. Old racial prejudices die hard.
With the rumors of 4e reboot pointing Dragonborn toward Hepmonaland, the notion of the Suel objectifying the Dragonborn as beasts of the wild and hunting them for sport could be brought into play. This would give a logic to the Dragonborn not being involved with eastern Oerik on the grounds that their only exposure was their "nearest neighbor" and withdrawing away in revulsion, and adds another layer of racial prejudice on the part of the Dragonborn, a level of confusion for the mammalian races (why can't these reptile-dudes ever trust us nice humans, what did we ever do to deserve this?), AND a logical source for scary Suel baddies to get those wonderfully intimidating draconian-looking helmets!
That last part might be a little draco-ist...
Could the Dragonborn have been developed by the SB down in Hepmonaland and the Amedio Jungle?
It could be one explanation for at least one ship departing Ekul for Hepmonaland every day. (LG Gazeteer, under Scarlet Brotherhood)
If memory serves, the ancient Amedio was dominated by a reptilian race. Sounds like the dragonborn.
Outside WotC, Anna's map project is gathering pace and includes all the stuff from LG. I find it hard to believe that WotC will ever be able to produce anything nearly half as good. They should just put a bit of effort in to support the fans who still love the old setting.
I cannot imagine there is much interest in Greyhawk among the newer crowd. For we Hawkers that have been around for years, we already have the '83 set, From the Ashes, the Adventure Begins, and what not. Furyondy may be my favorite Greyhawk nation, but I certainly do not care to read another write up of it - I already have three write ups that basically say the same thing.
The only thing WotC really could do to move Greyhawk forward is to completely alter things, and it may be a stretch to think there is a significant audience for a Greyhawk that doesn't have the Grey in the Hawk.
Without going into the complete backstory and history, here's a few general elements:
Prince Thrommel ascended the throne of Furyondy, married the archbishop of Veluna's daughter and initiates the Great Northern Crusade, which leads to the sacking of Dorakaa. Iuz retreats or disappears. Thrommel further consolidates his power, abolishing the old order and gives rise to a new empire named after his family's house- Nerath. Nerath spreads west and south west.
In the wake of Iuz's hasty retreat, the nobles of the "Horned Society" who in their ancient tongue are known as the "Bael Turath" make their deals with the devils of the Nine Hells. The Bael Turath empire is born which spreads east and south. In their attempt to take th Abbor-Alz, they encounter the ancient Dragonborn city-state of Arkhosia. The conflict begins that destroys both.
The former realms that were once part of the Great Kingdom utterly collapse-overrun with northern barbarians and undead hordes in service to the mad Ivid the Undying who still dwells in the ruins of Rauxes upon the Malachite Throne.
Iuz returns with a demon horde from the abyss, Thrommel is taken and his son Margroth (sp?) becomes the imperial heir at 15. The demon horde is stopped when the Deva descend to aid earth, sacrificing their celestial natures to beat back the abyssal and fiendish hordes. Margroth, under the influence of his mother triggers a golden age, continued by his wife and Eladrin emperess. The Nerath of the core world rises, and of course, eventually falls.
Celene and other fey realms retreat into the Feywild, aloof to the plights of humanity.
It's one hundred years after the fall of Nerath, 600 years after the fall of the old kingdoms of the Flanaess, and the "Points of Light" campaign begins for my players.
Edit: About the gods, I had the Greyhawk Wars herald a cataclysm both in the other planes and across the Oerth. The very cosmos was shattered and reshaped. Stars and dead gods felll from the sky, the borders between the worlds thinned in some places, and in a few locations, the other planes lap against the borders of this world like the edge of some strange sea. Thus the gods, good and evil of the new D&D coreworld are the victors in that cosmic struggle.
Lets leave 4th edition and Greyhawk mutually exclusive. 4th edition is a failure.
Spot on.
I've done something some purists will consider sheer heresy; I combined the vague, general history in the 4e "core world" and placed it into my Greyhawk setting as the future results of my Greyahwk Wars. Thus, it sharply diverges from what was published in Living Greyhawk and any other post- Greyhawk War publication.
Without going into the complete backstory and history, here's a few general elements:
Prince Thrommel ascended the throne of Furyondy, married the archbishop of Veluna's daughter and initiates the Great Northern Crusade, which leads to the sacking of Dorakaa. Iuz retreats or disappears. Thrommel further consolidates his power, abolishing the old order and gives rise to a new empire named after his family's house- Nerath. Nerath spreads west and south west.
In the wake of Iuz's hasty retreat, the nobles of the "Horned Society" who in their ancient tongue are known as the "Bael Turath" make their deals with the devils of the Nine Hells. The Bael Turath empire is born which spreads east and south. In their attempt to take th Abbor-Alz, they encounter the ancient Dragonborn city-state of Arkhosia. The conflict begins that destroys both.
The former realms that were once part of the Great Kingdom utterly collapse-overrun with northern barbarians and undead hordes in service to the mad Ivid the Undying who still dwells in the ruins of Rauxes upon the Malachite Throne.
Iuz returns with a demon horde from the abyss, Thrommel is taken and his son Margroth (sp?) becomes the imperial heir at 15. The demon horde is stopped when the Deva descend to aid earth, sacrificing their celestial natures to beat back the abyssal and fiendish hordes. Margroth, under the influence of his mother triggers a golden age, continued by his wife and Eladrin emperess. The Nerath of the core world rises, and of course, eventually falls.
Celene and other fey realms retreat into the Feywild, aloof to the plights of humanity.
It's one hundred years after the fall of Nerath, 600 years after the fall of the old kingdoms of the Flanaess, and the "Points of Light" campaign begins for my players.
Edit: About the gods, I had the Greyhawk Wars herald a cataclysm both in the other planes and across the Oerth. The very cosmos was shattered and reshaped. Stars and dead gods felll from the sky, the borders between the worlds thinned in some places, and in a few locations, the other planes lap against the borders of this world like the edge of some strange sea. Thus the gods, good and evil of the new D&D coreworld are the victors in that cosmic struggle.
Question... did someone find, assemble then finally destroy the Orb of Golden Death, causing the utter destruction of the Temple of Elemental Evil, cutting Iuz off from the elemental planes for 2 years and keeping his priests from summoning elemental creatures?
Even tho I'm a 'purist', I'm completely open to people using material to develop a logical history for their individual campaign. I've never seen, and probably won't ever buy, the Points of Light stuff or other 4th edition, so I don't know how it would convert. If a DM has and uses the late-1st edition TOEE module, there's a real chance to rescue Thrommel just before or early on during the Greyhawk Wars period, which would change what happens in the published material. PCs can also get enough weapons, armor, food, shoes, boots, blankets, money, etc etc to outfit several companies, changing the outcome of some battles in the wars. There's a map in TOEE showing the location of spies/agents of Iuz all over the Flaeness, how would that info change things? The Greyhawk Ruins module has an extradimensional source of wealth you can use to buy Nyrond, or at least pay all her debts. Another logical change to the sourcebooks.
I think most gamers are like me, if the changes are logical and based on campaign events, it isn't 'heresy.' When changing campaign material just remember this: the British were trying to find a way to assassinate Hitler 2 years before World War II began. What if they had succeeded? BASED ON ALL AVAILABLE INFORMATION, how might the world be different?
I loves me some Greyhawk, but it is truly about as stock-standard as a campaign setting can be. It doesn't need any special setting rules, classes, fe