GreyHawk 2009 - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

GreyHawk 2009

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
brokenjade
Jul 23, 2008 12:31:02 HI guys i was rumaging through my old issues of dragon magazine and found the steam punk issue which also had a small section on a modern variant of Greyhawk, i was wondering if any one had any ideas on how to make this 4e the majority is flavor mind you but the problem is converting the DIM weapons so any help would be appreciated.
#2
fictionalbeing
Aug 09, 2008 2:26:25 What issue of Dragon was that?
#3
pyre_born
Aug 18, 2008 19:18:43 Yeah, I'd really like to know what issue that was too, that sounds like something I'd enjoy!

And sorry I can't help with the conversions too much, still a 3.x-er!

Peace,
Pyre
#4
nydrre
Jul 25, 2009 16:32:39 Are Wizards supporting Greyhawk in 4E and if not what are the chances of it being picked up by something like Pathfinder?
#5
rob_douglas
Jul 27, 2009 13:54:22 Interesting choice to resurrect this thread to discuss that - but as of now, no, they are not supporting Greyhawk. Rumor has it that Paizo asked, but was told no - but they say they are happy with Pathfinder and their own world, and have no plans for Greyhawk.

I suspect there are still plans for Greyhawk, possibly in the form of a Dragon articles series, or a single book. The references to so many iconic Greyhawk figures do lend to the possibility. Some are thinking 2010 or 2011. If it were in the works for next year, then someone would be able to confirm it from some cousin's fiancee's best friend's husband, I am sure....

ROB
#6
_Mithreinmaethor_
Jul 28, 2009 16:39:53
Are Wizards supporting Greyhawk in 4E and if not what are the chances of it being picked up by something like Pathfinder?

They released "Return to the Village of Homlett" as a reward for everyone in the rewards program earlier this year.
#7
dulsi
Jun 14, 2010 12:38:17 I know this is an old post but figured I'd reply. The Greyhawk 2000 article is in dragon #277. It doesn't provide a lot of details about the world. Dungeon #83 had an adventure set in the world. I haven't finished reading the articles yet.

I too have wondered about a 4E conversion. The DIM weapons are certainly the issue. The gunpowder weapons could be set at the same damage as bows (1d8 for pistol and 1d10 for rifle). The DIM weapons could be slightly higher (1d10 for pistol and 1d12 for rifle). Alternatively you could give then a flat +2 or +4 fire damage. That way the damage would be multipled by powers. I'm tempted to make them superior weapons so that you need to spend a feat for proficiency.
#8
TregMallin
Jun 15, 2010 19:37:25 I think I remember that article. Didn't it have a Rand McNally-style highway map for Furyondy or some such? I've got to dig that issue up.
#9
guest232734764
Sep 30, 2010 9:08:08
I know this is an old post but figured I'd reply. The Greyhawk 2000 article is in dragon #277. It doesn't provide a lot of details about the world. Dungeon #83 had an adventure set in the world. I haven't finished reading the articles yet.

I too have wondered about a 4E conversion. The DIM weapons are certainly the issue. The gunpowder weapons could be set at the same damage as bows (1d8 for pistol and 1d10 for rifle). The DIM weapons could be slightly higher (1d10 for pistol and 1d12 for rifle). Alternatively you could give then a flat +2 or +4 fire damage. That way the damage would be multipled by powers. I'm tempted to make them superior weapons so that you need to spend a feat for proficiency.

Except that this article was written by someone who obviously had little experience with the World of Greyhawk setting.

1) Unless one is a Paladin of Murlynd and has the "Firebrand" feat, both gunpowder and 2nd ed's 'Smokepowder" are inert substances. Well, to be precise, gunpowder and amounts of smokepowder below one keg are inert, higher amounts of smokepowder explode immediately upon contact with air. Quite a few Spelljammer captains lost thier ships that way.
The Gods don't like guns in Greyhawk.
Unless you're going to somehow kill off four entire pantheons of deities, it just won't happen.
Without gunpowder rifles to create a logical stepping-point to DIM rifles, why would anyone even think of such a thing?

2) Why would anyone bother developing gunpowder/smokepowder/DIM weapons in the first place when repeating crossbows could (in 3E & 3.5) be enchanted with the Speed ability and the person weilding it could take the Rapid Shot and Rapid Reload feats? Combine those three and you have a crossbow/machinegun.

3) Why bother with developing a "Devil Raptor" fighter jet when you already have the Mosquito two-man fighter from Spelljammer? The niche was already filled, back in 2nd Ed, without the psuedo-science of the Greyhawk 2000 article.

4) And the rapid transit psuedo-subway from the article, why not just use the Lightning rail from Eberron?

Sure, Eberron came out years after the article, but seriously, this guy went for way over-the-top sci-fi solutions to a fantasy world where magic would provide much more elegant solutions without the painful mis-mash of "Greyhawk 2000".
#10
dulsi
Sep 30, 2010 15:13:11
1) Unless one is a Paladin of Murlynd and has the "Firebrand" feat, both gunpowder and 2nd ed's 'Smokepowder" are inert substances. Well, to be precise, gunpowder and amounts of smokepowder below one keg are inert, higher amounts of smokepowder explode immediately upon contact with air. Quite a few Spelljammer captains lost thier ships that way.
The Gods don't like guns in Greyhawk.
Unless you're going to somehow kill off four entire pantheons of deities, it just won't happen.
Without gunpowder rifles to create a logical stepping-point to DIM rifles, why would anyone even think of such a thing?

Where can I find information about the Paladin of Murlynd and the "Firebrand" feat. I only found the Cannonfire wiki about Murlynd. Seems to me there just needs to be some explaination behind the changes. Perhaps the worship of Murlynd has spread for some reason increasing his power.

2) Why would anyone bother developing gunpowder/smokepowder/DIM weapons in the first place when repeating crossbows could (in 3E & 3.5) be enchanted with the Speed ability and the person weilding it could take the Rapid Shot and Rapid Reload feats? Combine those three and you have a crossbow/machinegun.

When you talk about Rapid Shot/Rapid Reload, you are talking about an experienced fighter. Gunpowder weapon has the advantage of not needing magic to be produced. While the DIM weapons need magic, the description of them suggest that they have developed a mass production system for them.

4) And the rapid transit psuedo-subway from the article, why not just use the Lightning rail from Eberron?

Because you have teleportation. Teleporting subways need less track to build and can travel faster. I like the lightning rail and don't have a problem with making the magic to do that easier so that it get spread in Eberron but logically teleportation seem like the the ultimate solution.

Sure, Eberron came out years after the article, but seriously, this guy went for way over-the-top sci-fi solutions to a fantasy world where magic would provide much more elegant solutions without the painful mis-mash of "Greyhawk 2000".

Yeah there are some oddities and it isn't fully fleashed out. But I still think it has potential.
#11
drowbattlemind
Sep 30, 2010 16:58:10
1) Unless one is a Paladin of Murlynd and has the "Firebrand" feat, both gunpowder and 2nd ed's 'Smokepowder" are inert substances. Well, to be precise, gunpowder and amounts of smokepowder below one keg are inert, higher amounts of smokepowder explode immediately upon contact with air. Quite a few Spelljammer captains lost thier ships that way.
The Gods don't like guns in Greyhawk.
Unless you're going to somehow kill off four entire pantheons of deities, it just won't happen.
Without gunpowder rifles to create a logical stepping-point to DIM rifles, why would anyone even think of such a thing?

Where can I find information about the Paladin of Murlynd and the "Firebrand" feat. I only found the Cannonfire wiki about Murlynd. Seems to me there just needs to be some explaination behind the changes. Perhaps the worship of Murlynd has spread for some reason increasing his power.

The White Paladins of Murlynd and the Secret Of The Firebrands feat can be found in Dragon #306, April 2003, in the article Paladins of Greyhawk: Holy Warriors of the Flanaess, page 98.
#12
dulsi
Oct 01, 2010 13:05:17 In Spelljammer it says smokepowder doesn't work on Oerth but does elsewhere in the sphere. It is suggested that this may be due to the gods. The Dragon #306 article on Paladins of Greyhawk introduced a feat for paladins of Murlynd to use smokepowder. This seems to me to suggests to me that the gods have either change their minds on gunpowder or have lost some of their power. It could be that new gods brought from other spheres hold enough sway to allow gunpowder. I think I would increase the role of Myrlund in Greyhawk 2009 due to Magical Tech being his portfolio.

Another possible thought I had was to tie it into the Spellplague. The disaster within Realmspace has caused some to question their reliance on magic. Although that has issues since everyone except the dwarves have switched to DIM weapons. Could be that the dwarves were spurred by the disaster and have never forgotten. While the other races have forgotten or just didn't think it was a big a deal as the dwarves.
#13
pauln6
Oct 11, 2010 5:23:27 Murlynd is the demi-god of magical technology so it is his own divine power that permits smoke-powder to work for his priests only. In 4e it would be a divine feat that allowed access to a power swap feat tree.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 brokenjade Jul 23, 2008 12:31:02	HI guys i was rumaging through my old issues of dragon magazine and found the steam punk issue which also had a small section on a modern variant of Greyhawk, i was wondering if any one had any ideas on how to make this 4e the majority is flavor mind you but the problem is converting the DIM weapons so any help would be appreciated.
#2 fictionalbeing Aug 09, 2008 2:26:25	What issue of Dragon was that?
#3 pyre_born Aug 18, 2008 19:18:43	Yeah, I'd really like to know what issue that was too, that sounds like something I'd enjoy! And sorry I can't help with the conversions too much, still a 3.x-er! Peace, Pyre
#4 nydrre Jul 25, 2009 16:32:39	Are Wizards supporting Greyhawk in 4E and if not what are the chances of it being picked up by something like Pathfinder?
#5 rob_douglas Jul 27, 2009 13:54:22	Interesting choice to resurrect this thread to discuss that - but as of now, no, they are not supporting Greyhawk. Rumor has it that Paizo asked, but was told no - but they say they are happy with Pathfinder and their own world, and have no plans for Greyhawk. I suspect there are still plans for Greyhawk, possibly in the form of a Dragon articles series, or a single book. The references to so many iconic Greyhawk figures do lend to the possibility. Some are thinking 2010 or 2011. If it were in the works for next year, then someone would be able to confirm it from some cousin's fiancee's best friend's husband, I am sure.... ROB
#6 _Mithreinmaethor_ Jul 28, 2009 16:39:53	Are Wizards supporting Greyhawk in 4E and if not what are the chances of it being picked up by something like Pathfinder? They released "Return to the Village of Homlett" as a reward for everyone in the rewards program earlier this year.
#7 dulsi Jun 14, 2010 12:38:17	I know this is an old post but figured I'd reply. The Greyhawk 2000 article is in dragon #277. It doesn't provide a lot of details about the world. Dungeon #83 had an adventure set in the world. I haven't finished reading the articles yet. I too have wondered about a 4E conversion. The DIM weapons are certainly the issue. The gunpowder weapons could be set at the same damage as bows (1d8 for pistol and 1d10 for rifle). The DIM weapons could be slightly higher (1d10 for pistol and 1d12 for rifle). Alternatively you could give then a flat +2 or +4 fire damage. That way the damage would be multipled by powers. I'm tempted to make them superior weapons so that you need to spend a feat for proficiency.
#8 TregMallin Jun 15, 2010 19:37:25	I think I remember that article. Didn't it have a Rand McNally-style highway map for Furyondy or some such? I've got to dig that issue up.
#9 guest232734764 Sep 30, 2010 9:08:08	I know this is an old post but figured I'd reply. The Greyhawk 2000 article is in dragon #277. It doesn't provide a lot of details about the world. Dungeon #83 had an adventure set in the world. I haven't finished reading the articles yet. I too have wondered about a 4E conversion. The DIM weapons are certainly the issue. The gunpowder weapons could be set at the same damage as bows (1d8 for pistol and 1d10 for rifle). The DIM weapons could be slightly higher (1d10 for pistol and 1d12 for rifle). Alternatively you could give then a flat +2 or +4 fire damage. That way the damage would be multipled by powers. I'm tempted to make them superior weapons so that you need to spend a feat for proficiency. Except that this article was written by someone who obviously had little experience with the World of Greyhawk setting. 1) Unless one is a Paladin of Murlynd and has the "Firebrand" feat, both *gunpowder and 2nd ed's 'Smokepowder" are inert substances.* Well, to be precise, gunpowder and amounts of smokepowder below one keg are inert, higher amounts of smokepowder explode immediately upon contact with air. Quite a few Spelljammer captains lost thier ships that way. The Gods don't like guns in Greyhawk. Unless you're going to somehow kill off four entire pantheons of deities, it just won't happen. Without gunpowder rifles to create a logical stepping-point to DIM rifles, why would anyone even think of such a thing? 2) Why would anyone bother developing gunpowder/smokepowder/DIM weapons in the first place when repeating crossbows could (in 3E & 3.5) be enchanted with the Speed ability and the person weilding it could take the Rapid Shot and Rapid Reload feats? Combine those three and you have a crossbow/machinegun. 3) Why bother with developing a "Devil Raptor" fighter jet when you already have the Mosquito two-man fighter from Spelljammer? The niche was already filled, back in 2nd Ed, without the psuedo-science of the Greyhawk 2000 article. 4) And the rapid transit psuedo-subway from the article, why not just use the Lightning rail from Eberron? Sure, Eberron came out years after the article, but seriously, this guy went for way over-the-top sci-fi solutions to a fantasy world where magic would provide much more elegant solutions without the painful mis-mash of "Greyhawk 2000".
#10 dulsi Sep 30, 2010 15:13:11	1) Unless one is a Paladin of Murlynd and has the "Firebrand" feat, both *gunpowder and 2nd ed's 'Smokepowder" are inert substances.* Well, to be precise, gunpowder and amounts of smokepowder below one keg are inert, higher amounts of smokepowder explode immediately upon contact with air. Quite a few Spelljammer captains lost thier ships that way. The Gods don't like guns in Greyhawk. Unless you're going to somehow kill off four entire pantheons of deities, it just won't happen. Without gunpowder rifles to create a logical stepping-point to DIM rifles, why would anyone even think of such a thing? Where can I find information about the Paladin of Murlynd and the "Firebrand" feat. I only found the Cannonfire wiki about Murlynd. Seems to me there just needs to be some explaination behind the changes. Perhaps the worship of Murlynd has spread for some reason increasing his power. 2) Why would anyone bother developing gunpowder/smokepowder/DIM weapons in the first place when repeating crossbows could (in 3E & 3.5) be enchanted with the Speed ability and the person weilding it could take the Rapid Shot and Rapid Reload feats? Combine those three and you have a crossbow/machinegun. When you talk about Rapid Shot/Rapid Reload, you are talking about an experienced fighter. Gunpowder weapon has the advantage of not needing magic to be produced. While the DIM weapons need magic, the description of them suggest that they have developed a mass production system for them. 4) And the rapid transit psuedo-subway from the article, why not just use the Lightning rail from Eberron? Because you have teleportation. Teleporting subways need less track to build and can travel faster. I like the lightning rail and don't have a problem with making the magic to do that easier so that it get spread in Eberron but logically teleportation seem like the the ultimate solution. Sure, Eberron came out years after the article, but seriously, this guy went for way over-the-top sci-fi solutions to a fantasy world where magic would provide much more elegant solutions without the painful mis-mash of "Greyhawk 2000". Yeah there are some oddities and it isn't fully fleashed out. But I still think it has potential.
#11 drowbattlemind Sep 30, 2010 16:58:10	1) Unless one is a Paladin of Murlynd and has the "Firebrand" feat, both *gunpowder and 2nd ed's 'Smokepowder" are inert substances.* Well, to be precise, gunpowder and amounts of smokepowder below one keg are inert, higher amounts of smokepowder explode immediately upon contact with air. Quite a few Spelljammer captains lost thier ships that way. The Gods don't like guns in Greyhawk. Unless you're going to somehow kill off four entire pantheons of deities, it just won't happen. Without gunpowder rifles to create a logical stepping-point to DIM rifles, why would anyone even think of such a thing? Where can I find information about the Paladin of Murlynd and the "Firebrand" feat. I only found the Cannonfire wiki about Murlynd. Seems to me there just needs to be some explaination behind the changes. Perhaps the worship of Murlynd has spread for some reason increasing his power. The White Paladins of Murlynd and the Secret Of The Firebrands feat can be found in Dragon #306, April 2003, in the article Paladins of Greyhawk: Holy Warriors of the Flanaess, page 98.
#12 dulsi Oct 01, 2010 13:05:17	In Spelljammer it says smokepowder doesn't work on Oerth but does elsewhere in the sphere. It is suggested that this may be due to the gods. The Dragon #306 article on Paladins of Greyhawk introduced a feat for paladins of Murlynd to use smokepowder. This seems to me to suggests to me that the gods have either change their minds on gunpowder or have lost some of their power. It could be that new gods brought from other spheres hold enough sway to allow gunpowder. I think I would increase the role of Myrlund in Greyhawk 2009 due to Magical Tech being his portfolio. Another possible thought I had was to tie it into the Spellplague. The disaster within Realmspace has caused some to question their reliance on magic. Although that has issues since everyone except the dwarves have switched to DIM weapons. Could be that the dwarves were spurred by the disaster and have never forgotten. While the other races have forgotten or just didn't think it was a big a deal as the dwarves.
#13 pauln6 Oct 11, 2010 5:23:27	Murlynd is the demi-god of magical technology so it is his own divine power that permits smoke-powder to work for his priests only. In 4e it would be a divine feat that allowed access to a power swap feat tree.