I personally am quite pleased that the powers-that-be decided to resurrect the Campaign-setting-dedicated forums.
Denis, aka "Maldin"... Cartographer and Chronicler of Greyhawk
Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
Loads of edition-independent Greyhawk goodness... maps, mysteries, magic, mechanics, and more.
ROB
Awesome - welcome back all. I have been lurking on the Other Worlds, looking for greyhawk things. So how do we get the most active threads from that moved back over here? They are still stuck there.
ROB
We've got to ask for them to be moved. Take a look at this post for more information about that process.
Much of the discussion (and most of the grognards) has passed long ago to the other Greyhawk discussion groups ...
I know that there are very knowledgeable and passionate people who used to post here that I don't see here anymore, and that's unfortunate, but it's understandable. Maybe now that we've got our own forum again, some of those people will drop by again from time to time.
I never played in the setting during its hey day but I have every Greyhawk supplement out there.
I can't wait for the 4E version, it gets my vote for 2010 (although that is only because I realise BR doesn't have a chance
).I've been away for a while, can anyone bring me up to speed on any GH vittles for 4e I should look out for?
Greyhawk can never be killed
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/241233-greyhawk-d-d-4th-edition-back-beginning.html
And as the OP did I'll post the text for the link wary as well:
Originally Posted by GVDammerung @ Canonfire!
4e Greyhawk (coming earliest 2010, latest 2012) will restart the setting in circa 576CY.
There will be no timeline advance. Rather, there will be a timeline retrograde.
In the restart, the Flanaess will be reimagined. Everything that has “happened” in published products will “never have happened” unless it is specifically reincorporated in the restarted setting.
The Greyhawk Wars will never have occurred. There will never have been demon armies rampaging all over. However, Iuz will be on the march and the “bad guy of the North.”
The Scarlet Brotherhood will never have been “outed” by going for an empire. It will be a “general” bad guy found everywhere - sneaky, silent, unseen.
The Great Kingdom will be caught in a quasi-civil war with lots of politics, magic and religion. No undead animus rulers. No United Kingdom of Ahlissa. No Great Kingdom of the North. Medegia is not a wasteland. The Iron League and Nyrond stand opposed. Its “old school” 83Greyhawk in this area with the volume turned up to 11.
The Sheldomar Valley (Keoland and smaller states) will be “monster central” as monsters (giants, dragons, drow etc.) attack civilization relentlessly. Think Points of Light dialed all the way up.
The City of Greyhawk will be the “center of it all” where things start or come together. Everything in D&D will fit somewhere in the central region of the Flanaess around Greyhawk to include the Wild Coast (Turrosh-Mak and the Empire of the Pomarj will never have happened). The Circle of Eight will function as a premade “mission control.”
Celene will be moved into the Feywild with the addition of Eladrins. Celene will be sort of like a “fortress” from which fey forces sally forth to fight evil.
The Bandit Kingdoms and the Rift Canyon will be “dungeon-land” where all things dungeony can be readily found. Lots of dragons too. Speaking of which.
Dragonborn will be incorporated. They will be from “off the map” to the south in the Amedio/Hepmonaland.
The Tieflings will be incorporated. They will not be monolithic, as in a nation. Rather, they will have origins in the Horned Society, the Sea of Dust, the Lands of Iuz, the Land of Black Ice etc. Essentially, where there are evil planar influences, there will be Tieflings. More on this below.
The idea is to compartmentalize Greyhawk into the ultimate “classic play” menu of a setting with “zones”:
What to kill monsters? Play in the Sheldomar.
Want heroics and politics with evil wizards and evil high priests oppressing people who must be stopped? Play in the Great Kingdom, Nyrond or the Iron League.
Want to oppose the One Big Evil Guy? Play in the north against Iuz.
Want to go exploring ancient ruins and dugeons, see the BK and the Rift Canyon.
Want everything in one spot? One organizing principle? Play in the City of Greyhawk/Central Flanaess - adventure-in-can-land.
This split will essentially “define” Greyhawk as the Flanaess. Other areas will be marginalized (the Baklunish West as “genie-land” the exception). There will also be some geographical changes to Oerth (but I have no sense of the extent or details at this moment).
The cosmology of Greyhawk will not be the Great Wheel. Given the premise of the restart, Greyhawk’s cosmology will be 4e standard and will have “always been that way.”
The new cosmology will also be the restarted Greyhawk’s “McGuffin” or new animating force. The restart described above is intended to “keep Greyhawk as Greyhawk.” On top of that will be “the hook” that can neatly summarize the setting - why do you play here?
Tharizdun will be name to conjure with - The Fight Against the Dark God! But in the process, Tharizdun will function almost as a convenient means to introduce numerous other planar elements, in the sense that PCs must traverse the planes and deal with planar incursions into Greyhawk as a necessary part of - The Fight Against the Dark God! Its almost Greyhawk meets Planescape. Sort of. Maybe better to say Planescape (but not 2e Planescape in any pure sense, rather The PLANES) within a Greyhawk context or frame. The idea is that the planar aspect will not be so pronounced (more subtle) as to overpower the Greyhawk elements; the Greyhawk elements are to remain the focus but with a very strong planar theme. However, individual designs are unpredictable, naturally.
So saying, the above is only what I have been able to suss out post-Con Season (and I’m not infallable by any means) and is waaaaay in advance of the range of release dates. Stuff could change. However, I feel comfortable posting the foregoing and saying at this time “Remember, you heard it here first.”
I’m not altogether sanguine about this 4eHawk, largely because it trashes the idea of established “canon,” intentionally just as the 100 year timeline advance did in the Realms. I get the “logic” but as a long time fan I can only think of this as “OtherHawk.” Still, I will admit I see some cool possibilities here. I just wish I knew about potential geographical changes to make the map of the Flanaess appear “cooler” and immediately “new.”
And if you want to say I’m off my rocker. That I’m speculating or delusional. That I don’t know jack. Or worse. (Well, maybe not worse) Go ahead. Please just remember all that when we are discussing “OtherHawk” in a few years and recall, “You heard it here first.” Who knows? It could be cool. Possibly. :shock:
I like the idea and the way it's been set out sounds plausible from a WotC point of view. The intention is obviously to widen the appeal of every setting to a certain extent and this would seem to be a good way to widen the GH audience. Don't get me wrong, I've always had a ball with GH and IMO there's no need to widen the appeal but, from a marketing point of view there probably is.
My current timeline is at 578CY anyway and after seeing this I'm debating scrapping the whole GH Wars plot line. The whole "world war" thing always seemed a little contrived although I did like some of what it did to the setting.
I hope this happens and that it revives Greyhawk and as has been said above, someone bookmark GVD's thread somewhere so we can go back to it when the teasers start coming out of WotC.
Oh no...this can't happen, it cant.
I don't know... I think a reboot is probably preferable to the kind of treatment that the Forgotten Realms just received. Considering the changes to the cosmology and some of the monsters (e.g., archons, angels, succubi), I would rather just treat 4E Greyhawk as a new version of the setting, and not try to pretend that it's a continuation.
Saw this GVD post on Canonfire (am I allowed to say that here?).
Sure, why not? That's where I first saw it, too.
I like the idea and the way it's been set out sounds plausible from a WotC point of view. The intention is obviously to widen the appeal of every setting to a certain extent and this would seem to be a good way to widen the GH audience. Don't get me wrong, I've always had a ball with GH and IMO there's no need to widen the appeal but, from a marketing point of view there probably is.
My current timeline is at 578CY anyway and after seeing this I'm debating scrapping the whole GH Wars plot line. The whole "world war" thing always seemed a little contrived although I did like some of what it did to the setting.
I hope this happens and that it revives Greyhawk and as has been said above, someone bookmark GVD's thread somewhere so we can go back to it when the teasers start coming out of WotC.
The good thing about a reboot, from WotC's point of view, is that it neatly sidesteps the fragmentation of the Greyhawk fanbase. If you hated the Wars and "From the Ashes," fine, now they never happened. If you liked them, fine, you can still advance your timeline to that point and make them happen.
To me, though, I'm not sure it will matter much. I don't play much 4E, so I don't know that I'd buy a 4E Greyhawk, regardless of what it looks like.
I really miss Greyhawk. The current group that I'm running through the H-series of modules have never been a fan of the setting, so I'm just using the default setting from the 4th edition DMG. I would have loved to do the conversion work myself to put them in Greyhawk regardless, but I don't have the time to do something on that masive of a scale.
I was going to do this with the H series, but decided to start with this campaign instead (cheaper... ;)) In that case, I was going to set Winterhaven in the Sheldomar and the keep in the Lortmils, kind of near Veluna and Verbobonc. The Great Kingdom area could also have been a good setting for it.
ROB
In other Greyhawk news in case you missed it (I know I did until recently), it looks like Acererak is going to be in the Open Grave splatbook. Look Here where it says:
2009
• January: Open Grave, with undead creatures at all levels of play (Acererak!).
Why should I buy such a book? I'm not playing 4e! With the wealth of information found in the '83 Box, that is all I need to play in that timeframe...
Personally I would like to see either an updated Greyhawk set in CY 998 (ever wondered what the world looks like in times of Pluffet Smedger, the Elder?) or back in the times right after the Twin Cataclysms...
All WOTC gave you guys was Living Greyhawk...
considering how big Greyhawk was when I was a kid, it's really sad.
I'm glad people were interested enough to keep playing RPGA campaigns but in terms of the general D&d community Greyhawk dropped off the radar long ago.
Why was this exactly? Did it start with Gygax leaving? Was it problems people had with 2E Greyhawk? Lack of novel support?
I feel really bad for the old school Greyhawk fans.
All WOTC gave you guys was Living Greyhawk...
Yes, but Eric Mona at Paizo had given us Dungeon Magazine. Before it went out, there was almost a Greyhawk adventure in every issue, sometimes more.
Halber
But this reverse...just smack at an attempt to soothe the many GR fans, with this offer.
I am disappointed, that no one can think of going forward...
Yes, but Eric Mona at Paizo had given us Dungeon Magazine. Before it went out, there was almost a Greyhawk adventure in every issue, sometimes more.
Halber
And I'll always have my original Greyhawk box set. Well, maybe the box itself hasn't looked so good for a decade or more, but the depth of the material within has never been matched by any other release (this setting or another)to my liking.
And my players from 3.0 & 3.5 are still asking me to revive my Greyhawk campaign (I was DMing Star Wars after we put Greyhawk on hiatus), it would be so much easier to do some of the things I wanted to do with it, now that we have 4E...
Of course one of things I've been like about the setting is that there appears to be a very many lands left unknown, perfect for implanting custom cities and such; I guess my point is that, although the twist and turns of 4th Edition Greyhawk does sound interesting, I personally would prefer to just stick to what I've been doing. Though with my 4th Edition campaigns taking place around C.Y. 1984, that gives plenty of time to explain mechanical differences between 3rd and 4th (with 3rd having taken place around C.Y. 1008, also giving enough time to add things without really screwing anything up).
Note: One can probably just look over my post as the rambling of a guy who's half asleep. By the time 4th Edition Greyhawk comes out, my Pseudo-Greyhawk campaign might just end up encorporating parts of it anyway. Some cateclysm accuring between C.Y. 1008 and C.Y. 1984 to explain the different realms and loss of epic magic? Why not?
I feel really bad for the old school Greyhawk fans.
All WOTC gave you guys was Living Greyhawk...
considering how big Greyhawk was when I was a kid, it's really sad.
I'm glad people were interested enough to keep playing RPGA campaigns but in terms of the general D&d community Greyhawk dropped off the radar long ago.
Why was this exactly? Did it start with Gygax leaving? Was it problems people had with 2E Greyhawk? Lack of novel support?
Second Edition Greyhawk really didn't exist until the latter half of 2nd Ed's reign, when folks like Carl Sargent and Roger Moore finally managed to convince CEO Lorraine Williams that folks actually still gave a flying crap about what Gary Gygax had created;
her money-grubbing, power-hungry hands were busy fondling (or was that molesting?) the Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance, not to mention Planescape, Spelljammer, Al Qadim, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, and everything else TSR was glutting the market with.
And even then, fans of Greyhawk were unhappy with many of the changes that she insisted upon to make Greyhawk more "interesting".
Roger E. Moore may have written Greyhawk Wars, but Williams was behind the destruction of many of the worlds kingdoms that Iuz gobbled up, and then Carl Sargent was ordered to pick up the pieces.
Then, after Sargent got canned, Anne Brown and Roger E. Moore once again tried to clean up matters, with Greyhawk: the Players Guide and Greyhawk: the Adventure Begins, respectively, which chronicled all the changes that had occurred and attempted (like the 3.0/3.5 Living Greyhawk book after it) to get new players up to speed on the "present" of the WoG.
As you pointed out, the lack of novel support also was detrimental, for the longest time, all we had were the Gord novels and Rose Estes' Mika series (which had many events going utterly off-canon.)
When 3.0 came out, they started the Classics series, set in the WoG, and that raised my hopes quite a bit, especially Paul Kidd's Justicar trilogy (White Plume Mountain, Descent into the Depths of the Earth, and Queen of the Demonweb Pits),
but then they canceled those lines and went along with their Iconic Characters line of books, few of which actually tied into each other, and who's authors took MASSIVE liberties with the "core setting world", ignoring Greyhawk canon left and right and inventing new countries at the drop of a hat.
In my opinion, that egregious amount of contempt for the setting by the authors themselves may have led to the disdain by potential newer fans for any interest in Greyhawk as a viable setting.
I am currently running 4ed on Greyhawk, post Greyhawk Wars.
My campaign is in Perrenland, the heroes are doing odd jobs to saves the region from gathering evils etc. The truth is it's a Feywild vs Shadowfell fight over the region and things are getting hotter.
There are things I like and dislike about the Greyhawk Wars, but frankly how much that timeline effects my game is up to me.
There are plenty of things during and after those wars that I can use in a game to flesh out my campaigns.
There is also ALOT more in the D&D-Greyhawk multiverse that I can use in the game without using the wars at all, or even in conjunction with them.
Wherever possible I try to merge things that Gary Gygax did with the From The Ashes stuff, taking the best ideas of both worlds, such as different versions of Valley of the mage and Greyhawk City region.
The Circle of Eight working with the Lords of Balance trying to fight off demon princes and devil lords fits in well with 4ed from my point of view.
The Paul Kidd novels were excellent, and I do try to encorporate them into events of My Greyhawk, since interesting npcs events that are not massively over powered is to me what seperates Greyhawk from Forgotten Realms.
I also use some of the Paragon classes as organisations (small ones) throughout Greyhawk -
Justicars : Bahamut, Moradin and Pelor followers, mostly Humans and Dwarves, some Dragonborn. - Bases in Nyrond (15 members), Greyhawk City (7 members) and Furyondy (12 members).
Shadow Assassins : Dedicated slayers of any creatures for a price. Fierce rivals of Scarlet Brotherhood. - Bases in Ket (12 members), Bissel (5 members), Keoland (6 members), Duchy of Urnst (7 members), Almor (4 members), Greyhawk City (9 members).
Wizards of the Spiral Tower : Corelleon followers, mostly Elves, Eladrin and Humans. A few Tieflings. - Bases in Celene (28 members), Keoland (6 members), Velnua (13 members), Greyhawk City (5 members), County of Urnst (5 members) and Sunndi (12 members).
I guess I am trying to say that different editions of Greyhawk and 4ed do not have to be incompatible, just go with what works for you and evens out to a great world with cool stuff (that is not massively overpowered) all over.
Gooday
I am currently running 4ed on Greyhawk, post Greyhawk Wars.
My campaign is in Perrenland, the heroes are doing odd jobs to saves the region from gathering evils etc. The truth is it's a Feywild vs Shadowfell fight over the region and things are getting hotter.
There are things I like and dislike about the Greyhawk Wars, but frankly how much that timeline effects my game is up to me.
There are plenty of things during and after those wars that I can use in a game to flesh out my campaigns.
How did you introduce some of the new races? Or did you simply retcon them into the setting. I've been looking over my GH material, thinking about a 4e campaign when my "turn" to DM comes up, though I'm still a little undecided what "new" races I can introduce while keeping some of the original tone. I will definatlely NOT be using Warforged; I love the race, but they are very much part of the flavor of Eberron, not GH. Not too sure about shifters, either, though there is some precedent for dopplegangers. I think Shaddar Kai are not commonly found outside the Shadowfell, so most people would be unaware of them. My thoughts on some of the other races:
Dragonborn: Recent immigrants from western Oerik, probably from mercenary bands arriving by way of Baklunish territories (I think this works particularly well after the Greyhawk Wars). Such characters would be rare and probably viewed with suspicion away from the more cosmopolitan areas, but have gained some measure of respect. A recent spread in Bahamut's worship can be traced to these immigrants.
Eladrin: In Greyhawk, the word "elf" is derived from the old Flannish "olve", and those ancient people did not differentiate between the common elves and the noble eladrin. Wood elves (and the xenophobic Grugach) are elves; the Eladrin are known as High Elves and Grey elves, respectively. The differences in abilities are not widely remarked upon, since even the friendliest of elves keep some secrets, and it's common "knowledge" that all elves are magical creatures who can vanish in the blink of an eye; adventurous elven mages have done nothing to dispell this belief. Kingdoms such as Cellene have close ties to the Feywild, while remaining part of Oerth. This connection to the world prompts some eladrin, including Prince Melf Brightflame, to urge for more involvement in the affairs of men and other races.
Tielfings: Creatures with fiendish blood have existed in Greyhawk since ancient times. The "standard" diabolic tieflings hail from those lands held by the Horned Society and parts of the Shield lands. Demonic descended tieflings hail mainly from Iuz, territories occupied by his forces, and parts of the Great Kingdom. Mechanically there is no differance between the two tiefling "races", but the demonic tieflings vary much more in appearance, physically resembling the 3rd Edition tiefling. Like the current version, Tieflings come from all alignments, but they are trusted much less outside of evil lands than in the 4e core setting. Rumor speaks of special squads of tieflings striking into Iuz' territory on behalf of Furyondy and other kingdoms, while tiefling mercenaries win recognition and some grudging acceptance fighting in border wars along the Pomarj, but for the most part tieflings are met with fear and hatred.
Goliaths: This reclusive race rarely ventures from the isolated mountain ranges they call home. Those that do are generally looked on as men of giantish blood or perhaps unusually attractive half-ogres. Characters would be extremely rare, but viewed more as curiosities that threats, except in Geoff and Sterrich.
Deva: Even rarer than the Goliaths, their unrelenting fight against evil lets everyone know where they stand, and odd hair and eye color is far from unheard of in the Flanaes. Look for them on the front lines of any conflict between good and evil.
Half-orcs are no strangers to Greyhawk, though I think GH gnomes are just a little less fey than their core 4e cousins, though still fond of nature and trickery; I may replace the Fey Origin - - but maybe it doesn't make that much differance - -
And some of the human cultures might get some bonus skills - - Flan consider Nature a class skill, for example. I have time to think about it, but if someone at WotC wants to give me a definate date for a GH book, that would be convenient, too.
Eladrin: During the orcish invasion of Celene the old elven leaders of that realm, beaten and in disarray used a weapon of last resort, a great ritual that they believed would summon the elven gods to their aid. Things didn't work as they had hoped as the ritual opened a gate to the fey realm.The eladrin arrived in force having been aware that the boundaries between the fey and Oerth were about to be breached and that they would once again walk the realms.
The orcish invaders were slaughtered and driven to ground by the shining hosts of the fey and their gnome servants. The battle won and the orcs killed or routed the Elfin nobles prepared to greet their saviors as friends and brothers but this was not to be. The Eladrin nobles demanded oaths of fealty from the former rulers of Celene who they viewed as estranged cousins and claimed the crown of the nation by right of noble blood.
The elfs, weakened from a decade of war could not muster any resistance and chose exile in the southern lands of their cousins. A sizable number followed their nobles and have migrated south to the Ulek states principally to the Duchy of Ulek but also the the other states. The Ulek elfs have accepted the immigrants in the name of brotherhood and peace and also as a hedge against the Eladrin should they have plans of southern expansion.
For this reason many elfs from the region have a strong enmity against their eladrin kin and bear them no love though elfs from more distant lands have very mixed feelings about the new comers to the realm.
Celene is now reborn as the Eladrin realm on Oerth with a sizable population of Fey and ruled over by a High king and nine greater houses who hold dominion of the nine counties of Celene.
The population of Celene is about 25% elfin 30% gnome and 40% Eladrin and 5% other fey. The government is feudal in nature and good in ethics and rule. Celene no longer seeks to remain isolated from the realms at large and many eladrin are now found traveling the realm on business in the name of the fey kingdom and more than one order of fey knights has sworn itself to war in the alliance against Iuz. The eladrin are not evil in their mind and view the seizing of Celene as manifest destiny and part of a reemergence of the long banished fey into the world.
Goliaths: Considered by most to be a Suel off shoot.
Deva: Extremely rare with maybe a total population on Oerth of ~200.
The rest as before.
Shifters fit in well with peoples of Gnarley forest, Tiger and Wolf Nomads. I feel Shifters give a more Elric/Lankhmar/Conan feel to Greyhawk so they are fine by me.
Half Orcs and Gnomes have always been part of Greyhawk, not that i've come across alot of players who take either.
Deva are a great counter point to Rakshasa, but neither Rakshasa or Angels/Celestials/Aasimar have shown up much in Greyhawk much so far. I'm inclined to allow a Deva in the game, but they'd only meet another Deva maybe once or twice per entire campaign. As Cennedi says - total population on Oerth of ~200.
Goliath, being that large you'd think they'd show up in histories pages more often, so again, allow them in the game as a rarity and have small communities of them high in the mountains such as Crystal Mists or Rakers.
Tieflings fit in with Horned Society and Great Kingdom, so in or near those areas is fine, people a few thousand of these guys running around by now (since Great Kingdom went bad over 250+ years ago IIRC)
Dragonborn are either from other world or other lands. Other lands probably works better to reduce culture shock, they can have the same gods and their trade language with humans/halflings in their old lands may be an offshoot of Olman.
In my Greyhawk I have 10+ galleons of longships coming per month into the Azure Sea to Keoland, Nyrond and the Bright Desert lands. Many immigrants fleeing a war over the last 10 years.
This is to allow a few Dragonborn around most of the central regions, however a Goliath or Deva could also be introduced this way.
Shadar-Kai are clearly from the Shadowfell so players can work out a story to how they got here. This can be tied into the plot later in the campaign (or immediately if they need help etc). Again though these creatures are rare and there are only a few small villages of Shadar-Kai people deep in the woods or underground.
Second Edition Greyhawk really didn't exist until the latter half of 2nd Ed's reign, when folks like Carl Sargent and Roger Moore finally managed to convince CEO Lorraine Williams that folks actually still gave a flying crap about what Gary Gygax had created;
her money-grubbing, power-hungry hands were busy fondling (or was that molesting?) the Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance, not to mention Planescape, Spelljammer, Al Qadim, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, and everything else TSR was glutting the market with.
And even then, fans of Greyhawk were unhappy with many of the changes that she insisted upon to make Greyhawk more "interesting".
Roger E. Moore may have written Greyhawk Wars, but Williams was behind the destruction of many of the worlds kingdoms that Iuz gobbled up, and then Carl Sargent was ordered to pick up the pieces.
Then, after Sargent got canned, Anne Brown and Roger E. Moore once again tried to clean up matters, with Greyhawk: the Players Guide and Greyhawk: the Adventure Begins, respectively, which chronicled all the changes that had occurred and attempted (like the 3.0/3.5 Living Greyhawk book after it) to get new players up to speed on the "present" of the WoG.
As you pointed out, the lack of novel support also was detrimental, for the longest time, all we had were the Gord novels and Rose Estes' Mika series (which had many events going utterly off-canon.)
When 3.0 came out, they started the Classics series, set in the WoG, and that raised my hopes quite a bit, especially Paul Kidd's Justicar trilogy (White Plume Mountain, Descent into the Depths of the Earth, and Queen of the Demonweb Pits),
but then they canceled those lines and went along with their Iconic Characters line of books, few of which actually tied into each other, and who's authors took MASSIVE liberties with the "core setting world", ignoring Greyhawk canon left and right and inventing new countries at the drop of a hat.
In my opinion, that egregious amount of contempt for the setting by the authors themselves may have led to the disdain by potential newer fans for any interest in Greyhawk as a viable setting.
So, I have to wonder.....
How is any of this better/worse than what we the players & DMs have been doing to the setting since whenever we laid our hands on it?
Sure, once upon a time we all started with the same boxed set of source material. But once we pulled the shink wrap off of it & started playing, designing dungeons, etc each one of us spawned our own unique version of the world.
Maybe I'm truely alone in my aproach, but company written cannon just doesn't mean much to me. If I come across some element I like maybe I'll use it. When I find stuff I don't like? Well then, I just ignore or alter it.
Regardless, all I see when I read the novels, source books, different editions, etc is a chronicle of how someone else's game may/may not have turned out. Besides, I recognize reality - TSR, WoTC, whoever, they all make thier $ selling books. So they've got to keep wrighting something....
Thus it's of no concern to me that my own Greyhawk campaings don't reflect what I read in some novel - wich in turn didn't mesh with some game designers idea, or an insane CEOs vision.
I love Greyhawk - and love it more and differently than FR, Planescape, Mystara, Eberron, etc. When novels support that, it is easier for me to share that love with others. I have players now who didn't grow up on it, and we are playing 4E, now sometimes I have to explain that a character concept they have doesn't fit my world - our world.
Then there is the other advantage to lots of support - you can more readily allow the party to choose its own path through the world, and know that you can support them. I have used articles on Winterhaven, and Blackmoor,
and many, many modules, to provide life to otherwise lifeless areas when my player's characters decided to take a detour, or another route to a goal. Having a world that is all yours and doesn't have outside support makes that harder. And even though some of that support comes from community members, those members exist because of some supplement at some time supporting Greyhawk. I started with the Folio, never bought the boxed set, and wouldn't be here now if not for From the Ashes, which I picked up on deep-discount years after I had stopped playing. I then went on a rampage of buying, discussing, and playing Greyhawk. Product support breathes life - even if we don't use a particular product.
ROB
So this was posted on ENWorld:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/241233-greyhawk-d-d-4th-edition-back-beginning.html
And as the OP did I'll post the text for the link wary as well:
Honestly trying to pretend the last 25 years never happened would be stupid. I'm glad they're going to be relaunching Greyhawk but they should incorporate everything from the Greyhawk Wars and the Living Greyhawk campaign. Do you honestly think they'd abuse Dragon Lance in this fashion?
Well, as the OP of this thread back when Greyhawk was revived as a separate forum after it was temporarily smushed in the "Other Worlds" superforum, I thought it appropriate to revive as the first active Greyhawk thread in the new forums.
I'm a bit of a sucker for tradition.
Denis, aka "Maldin"... Cartographer and Chronicler of Greyhawk
Maldin's Greyhawk melkot.com
Loads of edition-independent Greyhawk goodness... maps, mysteries, magic, mechanics, and more!
Hey Maldin. The place looks bearable now that Gleemax is gone. Greyhawk endures!
I'm liking the new look of things. I'll be popping in more often.
Well we're back. The first campaign setting has survived every edition and sub-version (pun intended) of D&D and AD&D, and will continue to last because of the strongly loyal Greyhawk community. Much of the discussion (and most of the grognards) has passed long ago to the other Greyhawk discussion groups, however the WotC Greyhawk board has long been, and will continue to be (hopefully for a VERY long time) the place where new fans of the campaign setting can be introduced to it, have their questions answered, and join in the discussion with the old-timers. A place where ideas can be traded and critiqued, and new ideas formulated. A place where Greyhawk can come alive for a new generation. I personally am quite pleased that the powers-that-be decided to resurrect the Campaign-setting-dedicated forums. Denis, aka "Maldin"... Cartographer and Chronicler of Greyhawk Maldin's Greyhawk melkot.com Loads of edition-independent Greyhawk goodness... maps, mysteries, magic, mechanics, and more.
there is only one world for Dungeons & Dragons and its called "Greyhawk"
I will definatlely NOT be using Warforged; I love the race, but they are very much part of the flavor of Eberron, not GH.Never say never. Think S3: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. Renegade machines. Change the dressing (the visuals, more cylon metal, less wood... and I think you've got something that works!) YMMV. :-) Greyhawk is a wonderful melange of medieval fantasy and pulp sci-fi. Long before Eberron arrived on the scene. Be like Gary. Use everything you can get your hands on for your version of Greyhawk! But more importantly, just play!
-S2.
My new 3.X campaign is set in Greyhawk. 'Tis funny that a 'dead' world still gains new fandom.
. . . I like that
While Greyhawk (GH) doesn't have direct support like FR and Eberron (or Dark Sun next year) it has been popping up in core and in an RPGA reward.
- Open Grave has some good GH bits.
- Revenge of the Giants has a few call backs.
- Various Power names.
- RPGA Village of Homlet reward (with a poster map of the Inn of the Welcome Wench and the Moat House).
I don't think we are going to see GH until after 2011, if it at all in 4e as a setting. But we have a forum now and since Greyhawk conforms to a lot of the core assumptions (with a few exceptions) it isn't that hard to graft the GH fluff on the 4e rules crunch.
See you all around,
Bryan Blumklotz
aka Saracenus
Greyhawk Herald
www.greyhawkonline.com/heraldry
it isn't that hard to graft the GH fluff on the 4e rules crunch.
Very true. I've been playing in a trio of 4E campaigns now (since my last post in this thread, almost a year ago), and I must say that I hope to start DMing D&D again soon. My Alternate-Friday's gaming group is slowly coming around to the idea that 4E isn't what they thought it was going to be (insert video-game/MMORG of choice reference here), and I'm working them through Saga Edition Star Wars in order to get them used to many of the most obvious changes between 3.X D20 and the new D20.
And I have no doubt that whatever I have in mind for my personal Greyhawk campaign (Time period, etc.) I'll be utilizing a lot of the fluff concepts from the first two pages of this thread.
Also a series of books about the various regions like the "Volo's Guide to..." books that were done for Forgotten Realms could be produced. These products would gather together a wealth of information for the fanbase that continues to thrive and grow, as well as be usable with any edition that the players were using for their games.
Then later if WotC decided to follow through with a 4e Greyhawk of anykind, they would only have to publish books that had 4e specific information for the Greyhawk setting.
***But then again, what do I know? I'm just a gamer who wants this because it would make things easy on me.
I am going to hold out for GH.... Dark sun, FR and the rest can kiss my liliy white Irish ( three letter word)
Levels for fighters, rogues, and clerics are pretty much the same with Greyhawk being a 1-20 campaign. 21+ is for quasi deities, archmages, and hero-deities - not many of those about. Druids and 1e assassins need a tweak as an Archdriud should really be up to level 20 not stuck at level 14. Also some demi-human levels might need a tweak, although 3e might have taken care of that already.
Overall you can ignore most levels from earlier editions. If an npc or monster is someone you want your pcs to fight you make them appropriate level. If they were much lower level and you want to reflect that, you just make them a level-appropriate minion.