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That Grayhawk Quality....

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
grumpycelt
Nov 30, 2009 21:48:15 What makes Greyhawk, Greyhawk?

What do you think it is about the setting that sets it apart from other canned settings? What is it about the setting that makes it special? If Greyhawk has a vibe or feel to it, how would you define it?
#2
grumpycelt
Dec 04, 2009 22:02:48 No thoughts on the subject?
#3
pauln6
Dec 05, 2009 6:10:37 Not many people frequent the 4e boards for Greyhawk since there is little 'official' support yet. I like it because it is what I grew up with - a world with broad brushes based largely on the dynamic of the Lord of the Rings/Conan.

A lot of younger people prefer more exotic worlds but I balk at later DnD editions attempts for all the pc races to get along and for demi-humans to be integrated with humans. I like like my quasi medieval world where spell-casters are rare and powerful and everyone bickers amongst themselves for petty reasons. I'm not really a fan of gods warring and killing each other. I'm just old-fashioned.
#4
TregMallin
Dec 05, 2009 17:10:35
What makes Greyhawk, Greyhawk?

What do you think it is about the setting that sets it apart from other canned settings? What is it about the setting that makes it special? If Greyhawk has a vibe or feel to it, how would you define it?

I dug the fact that PCs from Gary's game would end up as NPCs in the published work. I liked the anagram names, too. That's a part of the vibe, in my book.

#5
pauln6
Dec 05, 2009 17:58:22
What makes Greyhawk, Greyhawk?

What do you think it is about the setting that sets it apart from other canned settings? What is it about the setting that makes it special? If Greyhawk has a vibe or feel to it, how would you define it?

I dug the fact that PCs from Gary's game would end up as NPCs in the published work. I liked the anagram names, too. That's a part of the vibe, in my book.

Lol - my group HATE 'Geoff' with a passion. I keep telling them that lots of foreign names sound funny in English and to get over it. Melf the Elf is pretty cheesy too! Still, who didn't have a group featuring Eric the Cleric when they wee kids?
#6
grumpycelt
Dec 09, 2009 23:19:50 So, if Greyhawk were updated to 4E, what would you want the books to possess and what would you want them to reject?
#7
Zuggster
Dec 10, 2009 8:33:04 Personally, I'm not sure what I'd want them to reject.

In my own personal "World of GreyhawK", I used the Major Greyhawk Wars of 582 CY to explain why the Changes that happened to the system did. The Wars caused a number of things to happen. A few plane shifting Wizards had visited Eberron, and found out the secrets to creating Warforge and used them to help fortify some areas. Tieflings were brought in by the powers of evil under a "trance" and when they broke that, the offensive started to fade out. Dragonborn were recruited from the Jungle Areas to the south (Amedio Jungle and Hepmnaland specifically).

However, from the "official" timeline, what we'd need is a reasonable way to explain how things changed, without changing too many fundemental ideas/histories.

Pre Wars, my Campaigns that I ran would take placy in the Duchy of Tenh. My last 3rd Edition game, was that countries preparations for the upcoming war. I've been running things there since 1st ed.

Now since the war basically erased the country (or at least the rulership), I couldn't run the 4th ed campaign there, so I chose a different spot. The group that finished 3rd Ed is now in Sterich. They haven't gotten much into world politics yet. I'm starting a second campaign in one of the Principalities in the former Great Kingdom. I wanted a little variety (in case where I picked was again ruined by war :-)

I'll be the first to admit, a new book won't make me alter my timeline in current campaigns, but that doesn't mean I won't buy it. I'll find a way to work the parts I like in.

As for what to go in the book....

I would like Regional Background Benefits similiar to the kind that Forgotten Realms (as opposed to Eberron) got.

While the Swordmage and Artifcer were nice additions to their world books, I'm not sure what I would specifically want to add as a Class to Greyhawk. Personally, a Different Kind of Wizard, since Greyhawk is where all the big Historic Mages are from (Bigby, Melf, and a host of others that spells are named after) would be something to consider. Although I understand if the Arcane Powertype has already gotten enough choices, and another type needs it more.

There are plenty of races left to break out, even if you just wanted to add sub-groups of already broken out races. Beastmen, Derro (Dwarf or Duergar), Grugach (Elf), Valley (Elf) and Voadkyn (Giant-Kin) are all Greyhawk Races that could be broken out (I used my 2nd Ed Monstrous Compendium for the above).

Other than that, I'm not sure. I haven't looked alot at the FG and Eberron books to know what they have to offer outside Player creation (which I've gotten from CB). I enjoyed the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, but I don't think doing an updated version of that is what WotC would want to do (its 192 pages without a Class breakout included).
#8
grumpycelt
Dec 10, 2009 23:37:14 Not too shabby. However, I thought of Tieflings as something Iuz created, though not all were loyal to him.
#9
TregMallin
Dec 12, 2009 21:52:48
What makes Greyhawk, Greyhawk?

What do you think it is about the setting that sets it apart from other canned settings? What is it about the setting that makes it special? If Greyhawk has a vibe or feel to it, how would you define it?

I dug the fact that PCs from Gary's game would end up as NPCs in the published work. I liked the anagram names, too. That's a part of the vibe, in my book.

Lol - my group HATE 'Geoff' with a passion. I keep telling them that lots of foreign names sound funny in English and to get over it. Melf the Elf is pretty cheesy too! Still, who didn't have a group featuring Eric the Cleric when they wee kids?

*heh* I can't help but think of Bissel as the place with the cleanest rugs.

#10
respectablehobbit
Jan 04, 2010 17:33:07 I think of Greyhawk as the place where it's interesting to be human. I got into Greyhawk through the Living campaign, and the first thing that impressed me about the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer was all the human subgroups, each with their own histories and MIGRATION PATTERNS. Even Forgotten Realms with its thousands of years of history doesn't have migration patterns -- everyone pretty much lives where they appeared. In any other campaign setting, if I'm a Human I'm just a Human from Kingdom X. But in Greyhawk I can be Suel, Oeridian, Flan, Bakluni, or Olman... and also be from Kingdom X.
#11
dguerrieri
Jan 06, 2010 15:32:58 One of the best parts of Grayhawk is that through the Gazetteer you cna have a very good feel for the flavor and culture of each region, and it is well developed, but you still have enough freedom and leeway to drop just about anything inot just about anywhere, and with small tweaks, make it feel right.

I also miss the old standard deities, the Norse, Egyptian, Greek and so forth from the original Deities and Demigods. It was nice to have the feel of the background of those deities from real world mythology.

It was also nice to have the real world analogies to the World of Grayhawk, for example, the western areas (Ekbir, Ull) being kind of Middle Eastern, Ratik and such being very Scandanavian in background. There was a familiarness that came from Gary Gygax pulling references and ideas together from real world history and cultures that made them easier to assimilate in my mind, and place frames of reference from the familiar world into the fantasy world.

My 2 coppers,
Dave Guerrieri
#12
respectablehobbit
Jan 06, 2010 21:14:49 Well every setting has real world analogs. Middle-earth had the Riders of Rohan (Vikings on horses). Forgotten Realms has the Moonshae Isles (the British Isles). Eberron has Sharn (New York City). So I don't really see that as being unique to Greyhawk.
#13
CCS
Jan 08, 2010 18:21:21
So, if Greyhawk were updated to 4E, what would you want the books to possess and what would you want them to reject?

I wouldn't want them to reject anything.
At most all they'd have to do is add a few pages to detail the origins of the dragonborn, tieflings, & maybe the eladrin. Add a few more pages for 4e write-ups of a handfull of important WGH personalities (Mordenkanian, Bigby, Iuz, etc) Every other new race/class? They really don't merit much attention, they're just "there". Same as how we added stuff to the world back then.

But really? I just want all of that (points to all the old 1e/2e/3e detail) sandwiched between a brand new set of covers sporting the 4e logos so that a whole new generation of player will learn of Greyhawk.
#14
pauln6
Jan 09, 2010 3:40:30 You can pretty much ignore all the fluff on pc races and monstrs. The changes to the cosmology are an improvement in my view. The feywild already existed in Greyhawk as a Fading Land so it just comes to the fore. The other changes are quite abstract in any event so should be fairly easy to incorporate.

You don't need an origin for Eladrin since they are grey elves (and high elves if you want to go that far). Wood elves and wild elves would be elves. Valley elves are a bit mysterious but I'd probably go with eladrin.

Tieflings already exist in the Great Kingdom and Empire of Iuz so only their fluff needs to be explained. Dragnborn can come from the Far West (e.g. Zahindia and the Celestial Imperium). Shifters can be 'gifted' folk among the Wolf and Tiger Nomads. Warforged can be from Blackmoor. Goliath can be from Esmerin in the Lortmils and possibly the fringes of more civilised mountainous regions like Perrenland i.e. lands not dominated by conflict with hill giants. Deva don't need to be changed because they're already so rare. Genasi can be found among the Baklunish wizards and sorcerers. Shdar-kai exist in the Dim Forest. You don't really need to go to town with much here.

The lack of love for more than a few Greyhawk gods is the most problematic. A few can be reverse engineered from existing gods. Others might be possible to build using the divinity feat rules. Nerull is still around. Vecna should be far less high profile unless your characters played the Ravenloft adventures that elevated him or Vecna Lives.
#15
spitewrathhatred
Feb 01, 2010 23:53:09 What I love most about the greyhawk setting is the sheer amount of name dropping that you can do as a DM. White Plume Mountain, ToEE, Iggilwilv, Acerak, Tomb of Horrors, Vecna, Tenser, Bigby, Tamoachan, Isle of Dread, etc., are all there to be met, fought, or explored.

Plus, I just love the gritty, organic "feel" of the flanaess. The Realms seems too happy-go-lucky what with their harpers and Elminsters and what-not. Eberron, while a very interesting world IMO, seems just a lil too steampunkish for my taste. I like that in Greyhawk, the odds seem heavily stacked in evil's favor, with the Horned Society, Iuz, Iggilwilv, The Vault of the Drow, The Slavers, Spinecastle, and The Great Kingdom all waiting to strike the Pc's down. Heck even the free city of Greyhawk is run by the thieve's guild and assassin's guild. Good Times for this DM!

edit: all this is from a 3.5 viewpoint. stubbornly, I have not converted as of yet.
#16
odinfellhammer
Feb 15, 2010 9:59:21 The cultures of the kingdoms, evil monk societies, and unique trees are what makes Greyhawk, Greyhawk. The original boxed set is great. I just love the backstory on the two races of man which basically nuked themselves with the colorless fire. There was Greyhawk before there was Waterdeep.
I still use the boxed set to describe variuos parts of my own world.
#17
bellerphon1971
Feb 24, 2010 22:42:59 It was were it began for me 27 years ago. I call it home. I wish Gary was still around too.
#18
truefan
Mar 26, 2010 21:22:31
What makes Greyhawk, Greyhawk?

Lol - my group HATE 'Geoff' with a passion. I keep telling them that lots of foreign names sound funny in English and to get over it. Melf the Elf is pretty cheesy too! Still, who didn't have a group featuring Eric the Cleric when they wee kids?

the name 'geoff'?as in the region? in the local dialect of Geoff(flan), it is spelled and pronounced Gyruff (GEE- rah-uff) geoff is just a common tongue misunderstanding (like Japan)
id say thats much more interesting

and its part of what made Greyhawk Greyhawk
its the details, i think greyhawk is more fleshed out, more 3D, for PCs who wanted more, there is a deep well of information filled with various local flavor
#19
truefan
Mar 26, 2010 21:39:12
Shdar-kai exist in the Dim Forest. You don't really need to go to town with much here.

The lack of love for more than a few Greyhawk gods is the most problematic. A few can be reverse engineered from existing gods. Others might be possible to build using the divinity feat rules. Nerull is still around. Vecna should be far less high profile unless your characters played the Ravenloft adventures that elevated him or Vecna Lives.

i agree and am intrigued with most of what you say...
im a little uneasy about the Shadar'kai being in the Dim Forest, this is mostly a Wood elf playground...with a tear into the shadow realm (most notably an ancient shadow dragon and her brood) but id love to see this written in....

if your character is from the SHeldomar region valley, then Vecna may play a big role, as this is where vecna went from high priest/mage to lich, and in doing so, killing the land off in a region now called the Rushmoors. and then later this region is where large populations of his followers setup a large kingdom (The EMpire of Vecna which falls in ~ -357 CY, or ~1093 FT) and Vecna was transposed to a god here as you said 581? CY in the ravenloft series

Vecna is still very high profile amongst the people of the sheldomar, there are still large cults. and there is a superstition that you should only mention him as "he who shall not be named" for fear that if you say his name he might appear. this came from rumor to reality when a number of patrons of the local tavern in Hochoch started saying his name, then a portal to an evil realm opened up in the middle. (occured on during the 5 year LG campaign)

this sense of all encompassing storys, things of the passed never seem to go away, is part of what i liked about Greyhawk. especially when placed in the same gritty attitude as the rest
#20
starcloud
May 30, 2010 3:54:32 Some actual thought went into how the world's nations were formed. And the effects on populations through history, etc. The variety in humans helps a lot, too, since it echos the kind of differentiation that happens in the real world.
#21
oerdin
Jun 12, 2010 16:45:39
What makes Greyhawk, Greyhawk?

What do you think it is about the setting that sets it apart from other canned settings? What is it about the setting that makes it special? If Greyhawk has a vibe or feel to it, how would you define it?

For Greyhawk was the original AD&D setting where most of the 1st edition modules were set, where I spent much of my early teenage years playing with my friends, and which just feels more like real AD&D then the power munchkin stuff I've glanced out which passes for AD&D these days.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 grumpycelt Nov 30, 2009 21:48:15	What makes Greyhawk, Greyhawk? What do you think it is about the setting that sets it apart from other canned settings? What is it about the setting that makes it special? If Greyhawk has a vibe or feel to it, how would you define it?
#2 grumpycelt Dec 04, 2009 22:02:48	No thoughts on the subject?
#3 pauln6 Dec 05, 2009 6:10:37	Not many people frequent the 4e boards for Greyhawk since there is little 'official' support yet. I like it because it is what I grew up with - a world with broad brushes based largely on the dynamic of the Lord of the Rings/Conan. A lot of younger people prefer more exotic worlds but I balk at later DnD editions attempts for all the pc races to get along and for demi-humans to be integrated with humans. I like like my quasi medieval world where spell-casters are rare and powerful and everyone bickers amongst themselves for petty reasons. I'm not really a fan of gods warring and killing each other. I'm just old-fashioned.
#4 TregMallin Dec 05, 2009 17:10:35	What makes Greyhawk, Greyhawk? What do you think it is about the setting that sets it apart from other canned settings? What is it about the setting that makes it special? If Greyhawk has a vibe or feel to it, how would you define it? I dug the fact that PCs from Gary's game would end up as NPCs in the published work. I liked the anagram names, too. That's a part of the vibe, in my book.
#5 pauln6 Dec 05, 2009 17:58:22	What makes Greyhawk, Greyhawk? What do you think it is about the setting that sets it apart from other canned settings? What is it about the setting that makes it special? If Greyhawk has a vibe or feel to it, how would you define it? I dug the fact that PCs from Gary's game would end up as NPCs in the published work. I liked the anagram names, too. That's a part of the vibe, in my book. Lol - my group HATE 'Geoff' with a passion. I keep telling them that lots of foreign names sound funny in English and to get over it. Melf the Elf is pretty cheesy too! Still, who didn't have a group featuring Eric the Cleric when they wee kids?
#6 grumpycelt Dec 09, 2009 23:19:50	So, if Greyhawk were updated to 4E, what would you want the books to possess and what would you want them to reject?
#7 Zuggster Dec 10, 2009 8:33:04	Personally, I'm not sure what I'd want them to reject. In my own personal "World of GreyhawK", I used the Major Greyhawk Wars of 582 CY to explain why the Changes that happened to the system did. The Wars caused a number of things to happen. A few plane shifting Wizards had visited Eberron, and found out the secrets to creating Warforge and used them to help fortify some areas. Tieflings were brought in by the powers of evil under a "trance" and when they broke that, the offensive started to fade out. Dragonborn were recruited from the Jungle Areas to the south (Amedio Jungle and Hepmnaland specifically). However, from the "official" timeline, what we'd need is a reasonable way to explain how things changed, without changing too many fundemental ideas/histories. Pre Wars, my Campaigns that I ran would take placy in the Duchy of Tenh. My last 3rd Edition game, was that countries preparations for the upcoming war. I've been running things there since 1st ed. Now since the war basically erased the country (or at least the rulership), I couldn't run the 4th ed campaign there, so I chose a different spot. The group that finished 3rd Ed is now in Sterich. They haven't gotten much into world politics yet. I'm starting a second campaign in one of the Principalities in the former Great Kingdom. I wanted a little variety (in case where I picked was again ruined by war :-) I'll be the first to admit, a new book won't make me alter my timeline in current campaigns, but that doesn't mean I won't buy it. I'll find a way to work the parts I like in. As for what to go in the book.... I would like Regional Background Benefits similiar to the kind that Forgotten Realms (as opposed to Eberron) got. While the Swordmage and Artifcer were nice additions to their world books, I'm not sure what I would specifically want to add as a Class to Greyhawk. Personally, a Different Kind of Wizard, since Greyhawk is where all the big Historic Mages are from (Bigby, Melf, and a host of others that spells are named after) would be something to consider. Although I understand if the Arcane Powertype has already gotten enough choices, and another type needs it more. There are plenty of races left to break out, even if you just wanted to add sub-groups of already broken out races. Beastmen, Derro (Dwarf or Duergar), Grugach (Elf), Valley (Elf) and Voadkyn (Giant-Kin) are all Greyhawk Races that could be broken out (I used my 2nd Ed Monstrous Compendium for the above). Other than that, I'm not sure. I haven't looked alot at the FG and Eberron books to know what they have to offer outside Player creation (which I've gotten from CB). I enjoyed the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, but I don't think doing an updated version of that is what WotC would want to do (its 192 pages without a Class breakout included).
#8 grumpycelt Dec 10, 2009 23:37:14	Not too shabby. However, I thought of Tieflings as something Iuz created, though not all were loyal to him.
#9 TregMallin Dec 12, 2009 21:52:48	What makes Greyhawk, Greyhawk? What do you think it is about the setting that sets it apart from other canned settings? What is it about the setting that makes it special? If Greyhawk has a vibe or feel to it, how would you define it? I dug the fact that PCs from Gary's game would end up as NPCs in the published work. I liked the anagram names, too. That's a part of the vibe, in my book. Lol - my group HATE 'Geoff' with a passion. I keep telling them that lots of foreign names sound funny in English and to get over it. Melf the Elf is pretty cheesy too! Still, who didn't have a group featuring Eric the Cleric when they wee kids? heh I can't help but think of Bissel as the place with the cleanest rugs.
#10 respectablehobbit Jan 04, 2010 17:33:07	I think of Greyhawk as the place where it's interesting to be human. I got into Greyhawk through the Living campaign, and the first thing that impressed me about the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer was all the human subgroups, each with their own histories and MIGRATION PATTERNS. Even Forgotten Realms with its thousands of years of history doesn't have migration patterns -- everyone pretty much lives where they appeared. In any other campaign setting, if I'm a Human I'm just a Human from Kingdom X. But in Greyhawk I can be Suel, Oeridian, Flan, Bakluni, or Olman... and also be from Kingdom X.
#11 dguerrieri Jan 06, 2010 15:32:58	One of the best parts of Grayhawk is that through the Gazetteer you cna have a very good feel for the flavor and culture of each region, and it is well developed, but you still have enough freedom and leeway to drop just about anything inot just about anywhere, and with small tweaks, make it feel right. I also miss the old standard deities, the Norse, Egyptian, Greek and so forth from the original Deities and Demigods. It was nice to have the feel of the background of those deities from real world mythology. It was also nice to have the real world analogies to the World of Grayhawk, for example, the western areas (Ekbir, Ull) being kind of Middle Eastern, Ratik and such being very Scandanavian in background. There was a familiarness that came from Gary Gygax pulling references and ideas together from real world history and cultures that made them easier to assimilate in my mind, and place frames of reference from the familiar world into the fantasy world. My 2 coppers, Dave Guerrieri
#12 respectablehobbit Jan 06, 2010 21:14:49	Well every setting has real world analogs. Middle-earth had the Riders of Rohan (Vikings on horses). Forgotten Realms has the Moonshae Isles (the British Isles). Eberron has Sharn (New York City). So I don't really see that as being unique to Greyhawk.
#13 CCS Jan 08, 2010 18:21:21	So, if Greyhawk were updated to 4E, what would you want the books to possess and what would you want them to reject? I wouldn't want them to reject anything. At most all they'd have to do is add a few pages to detail the origins of the dragonborn, tieflings, & maybe the eladrin. Add a few more pages for 4e write-ups of a handfull of important WGH personalities (Mordenkanian, Bigby, Iuz, etc) Every other new race/class? They really don't merit much attention, they're just "there". Same as how we added stuff to the world back then. But really? I just want all of that (points to all the old 1e/2e/3e detail) sandwiched between a brand new set of covers sporting the 4e logos so that a whole new generation of player will learn of Greyhawk.
#14 pauln6 Jan 09, 2010 3:40:30	You can pretty much ignore all the fluff on pc races and monstrs. The changes to the cosmology are an improvement in my view. The feywild already existed in Greyhawk as a Fading Land so it just comes to the fore. The other changes are quite abstract in any event so should be fairly easy to incorporate. You don't need an origin for Eladrin since they are grey elves (and high elves if you want to go that far). Wood elves and wild elves would be elves. Valley elves are a bit mysterious but I'd probably go with eladrin. Tieflings already exist in the Great Kingdom and Empire of Iuz so only their fluff needs to be explained. Dragnborn can come from the Far West (e.g. Zahindia and the Celestial Imperium). Shifters can be 'gifted' folk among the Wolf and Tiger Nomads. Warforged can be from Blackmoor. Goliath can be from Esmerin in the Lortmils and possibly the fringes of more civilised mountainous regions like Perrenland i.e. lands not dominated by conflict with hill giants. Deva don't need to be changed because they're already so rare. Genasi can be found among the Baklunish wizards and sorcerers. Shdar-kai exist in the Dim Forest. You don't really need to go to town with much here. The lack of love for more than a few Greyhawk gods is the most problematic. A few can be reverse engineered from existing gods. Others might be possible to build using the divinity feat rules. Nerull is still around. Vecna should be far less high profile unless your characters played the Ravenloft adventures that elevated him or Vecna Lives.
#15 spitewrathhatred Feb 01, 2010 23:53:09	What I love most about the greyhawk setting is the sheer amount of name dropping that you can do as a DM. White Plume Mountain, ToEE, Iggilwilv, Acerak, Tomb of Horrors, Vecna, Tenser, Bigby, Tamoachan, Isle of Dread, etc., are all there to be met, fought, or explored. Plus, I just love the gritty, organic "feel" of the flanaess. The Realms seems too happy-go-lucky what with their harpers and Elminsters and what-not. Eberron, while a very interesting world IMO, seems just a lil too steampunkish for my taste. I like that in Greyhawk, the odds seem heavily stacked in evil's favor, with the Horned Society, Iuz, Iggilwilv, The Vault of the Drow, The Slavers, Spinecastle, and The Great Kingdom all waiting to strike the Pc's down. Heck even the free city of Greyhawk is run by the thieve's guild and assassin's guild. Good Times for this DM! edit: all this is from a 3.5 viewpoint. stubbornly, I have not converted as of yet.
#16 odinfellhammer Feb 15, 2010 9:59:21	The cultures of the kingdoms, evil monk societies, and unique trees are what makes Greyhawk, Greyhawk. The original boxed set is great. I just love the backstory on the two races of man which basically nuked themselves with the colorless fire. There was Greyhawk before there was Waterdeep. I still use the boxed set to describe variuos parts of my own world.
#17 bellerphon1971 Feb 24, 2010 22:42:59	It was were it began for me 27 years ago. I call it home. I wish Gary was still around too.
#18 truefan Mar 26, 2010 21:22:31	What makes Greyhawk, Greyhawk? Lol - my group HATE 'Geoff' with a passion. I keep telling them that lots of foreign names sound funny in English and to get over it. Melf the Elf is pretty cheesy too! Still, who didn't have a group featuring Eric the Cleric when they wee kids? the name 'geoff'?as in the region? in the local dialect of Geoff(flan), it is spelled and pronounced Gyruff (GEE- rah-uff) geoff is just a common tongue misunderstanding (like Japan) id say thats much more interesting and its part of what made Greyhawk Greyhawk its the details, i think greyhawk is more fleshed out, more 3D, for PCs who wanted more, there is a deep well of information filled with various local flavor
#19 truefan Mar 26, 2010 21:39:12	Shdar-kai exist in the Dim Forest. You don't really need to go to town with much here. The lack of love for more than a few Greyhawk gods is the most problematic. A few can be reverse engineered from existing gods. Others might be possible to build using the divinity feat rules. Nerull is still around. Vecna should be far less high profile unless your characters played the Ravenloft adventures that elevated him or Vecna Lives. i agree and am intrigued with most of what you say... im a little uneasy about the Shadar'kai being in the Dim Forest, this is mostly a Wood elf playground...with a tear into the shadow realm (most notably an ancient shadow dragon and her brood) but id love to see this written in.... if your character is from the SHeldomar region valley, then Vecna may play a big role, as this is where vecna went from high priest/mage to lich, and in doing so, killing the land off in a region now called the Rushmoors. and then later this region is where large populations of his followers setup a large kingdom (The EMpire of Vecna which falls in ~ -357 CY, or ~1093 FT) and Vecna was transposed to a god here as you said 581? CY in the ravenloft series Vecna is still very high profile amongst the people of the sheldomar, there are still large cults. and there is a superstition that you should only mention him as "he who shall not be named" for fear that if you say his name he might appear. this came from rumor to reality when a number of patrons of the local tavern in Hochoch started saying his name, then a portal to an evil realm opened up in the middle. (occured on during the 5 year LG campaign) this sense of all encompassing storys, things of the passed never seem to go away, is part of what i liked about Greyhawk. especially when placed in the same gritty attitude as the rest
#20 starcloud May 30, 2010 3:54:32	Some actual thought went into how the world's nations were formed. And the effects on populations through history, etc. The variety in humans helps a lot, too, since it echos the kind of differentiation that happens in the real world.
#21 oerdin Jun 12, 2010 16:45:39	What makes Greyhawk, Greyhawk? What do you think it is about the setting that sets it apart from other canned settings? What is it about the setting that makes it special? If Greyhawk has a vibe or feel to it, how would you define it? For Greyhawk was the original AD&D setting where most of the 1st edition modules were set, where I spent much of my early teenage years playing with my friends, and which just feels more like real AD&D then the power munchkin stuff I've glanced out which passes for AD&D these days.