1st time 4E DM w/group of Encounter Players - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

1st time 4E DM w/group of Encounter Players

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
neomoon
Jun 21, 2010 17:53:44 Last week I asked the people I play Encounters with if they'd be interested in playing another 4E game not set in Dark Sun (so far DS Encounters has not been a good experience) and everyone agreed. That means that I'll be running a 4E game for a group of seven people and most of them never played D&D until Encounters Season 1.

Being that I'm new to 4E myself I decided to string together professional modules with a long running sub-plot/mystery incorporated. The basic set up is this:

WOTC's "Keep on the Shadowfell" + Dungeon Add-ons (levels 1 through 3)
Adamant Entertainment's "Scourge of the Rat-Men" (levels 3 through 4)
Goodman Game's "Dungeon Crawl Classics #64: Codex of the Damned" (levels 4 through 5)
WOTC's "Thunderspire Labyrinth" (5 through 6)
WOTC's "Village of Homlett" (if I can get it, if not I'll have to invent an adventure) (levels 6 through 7)
WOTC's "Pyramid of Shadows" (levels 7 through 10)
Final Adventure & climax will be WOTC's "Tomb of Horrors"

The subplot/mystery will be in a character named Twopence, a human fighter who appears in almost all the adventures at least once. The Twopence in each adventure is, however, a different Twopence every time. Twopence is a "time lost" person, who is locked to the PCs and appears and disappears from reality at various junctures in the PCs life. Twopence doesn't and won't appear in chronological order either (in game terms he may be a level 3 fighter the first time the party meets but a level 16 fighter the next). As the game goes on the PC will learn more and more of Twopence's history and his connection to them and actually "meet" Twopence for his first time midway through the campaign (This would be the "Village of Homlett" part) where most of their questions about him will be answered. The finale ("Tomb of Horrors") will be started by the oldest Twopence the characters meet who will beg them to stop his time jumps and bring him back into normal time.

The question I have now, that I ask the more experienced DMs here (I mainly ran Gauntlet-like dungeon crawls in 3.5) is can this work and what ways can I improve it?

#2
deadcarpenter
Jun 21, 2010 22:18:54 I love the idea, the narrative thread, the time travel angle, and your sadism for whipping out "Tomb of Horrors". You've done plenty of big-picture campaign planning at this point, as your arc will take a once-weekly gaming group many months to get through.

I think your next step is to figure out what kind of game your players want, and be sure you give it to them. IMHO this requires some detailed planning of the next gaming session (not the finale, or the turning point, but the NEXT one you guys play together). And don't put so much work into the larger story arc that you aren't willing to revise it (or trash it) if it isn't what your players want.

Just curious...what went wrong with Encounters?
#3
neomoon
Jun 22, 2010 16:43:15

Just curious...what went wrong with Encounters?

Most of the guys who never played were too lost and really didn't understand why things were happening mechanically or were lost in how some of the things that were explained were worded. The storyline and the Encounter itself were fine, it was mostly mechanics that got a lot of the new people. I brought my DMG and PHB 1 and 2 (never played but I still bought the books) to the second game and it helped a little.

#4
uhf
Jun 24, 2010 10:54:32 I liked the premise. I think you've got a decent enough formula to make it work.

I wish to say that I don't like the WOTC modules. Particularly the ones you've chosen.

I felt that Keep On The Shadowfell was annoying on so many levels. (Although I liked the off shoot encounters.) On the first level, there are Brutes which turned into grindy boring fights. Which is OK.. but many of them were back to back which makes for unhappy players. The Hobgoblins were also quite grindy. And actually so was the final fight.

Take a look at Chaos Scar in D&D Insider to get an idea about building adventures that are more in step with 4e. Dead by Dawn will have your players begging for more. (Mine were.)

I feel that 4e really makes crawls unpleasent at best. Monsters in rooms just isn't that exciting. I started my players with a run away stage coach robbery complete with epic swashbuckling fight on the top of the stage coach.

Furthermore, creating your own adventures is much easier in 4e than in other editions. I really recommend giving it a whirl. Just read up on Grindy fights, and how to avoid them.
#5
Neutronium_Dragon
Jun 24, 2010 13:29:54 I second the use of the Chaos Scar adventures to start with, rather than KotS. There's at least one tie-in to Thunderspire Labyrinth in the Chaos Scar material, so you won't lose out on the plot flow.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 neomoon Jun 21, 2010 17:53:44	Last week I asked the people I play Encounters with if they'd be interested in playing another 4E game not set in Dark Sun (so far DS Encounters has not been a good experience) and everyone agreed. That means that I'll be running a 4E game for a group of seven people and most of them never played D&D until Encounters Season 1. Being that I'm new to 4E myself I decided to string together professional modules with a long running sub-plot/mystery incorporated. The basic set up is this: WOTC's "Keep on the Shadowfell" + Dungeon Add-ons (levels 1 through 3) Adamant Entertainment's "Scourge of the Rat-Men" (levels 3 through 4) Goodman Game's "Dungeon Crawl Classics #64: Codex of the Damned" (levels 4 through 5) WOTC's "Thunderspire Labyrinth" (5 through 6) WOTC's "Village of Homlett" (if I can get it, if not I'll have to invent an adventure) (levels 6 through 7) WOTC's "Pyramid of Shadows" (levels 7 through 10) Final Adventure & climax will be WOTC's "Tomb of Horrors" The subplot/mystery will be in a character named Twopence, a human fighter who appears in almost all the adventures at least once. The Twopence in each adventure is, however, a different Twopence every time. Twopence is a "time lost" person, who is locked to the PCs and appears and disappears from reality at various junctures in the PCs life. Twopence doesn't and won't appear in chronological order either (in game terms he may be a level 3 fighter the first time the party meets but a level 16 fighter the next). As the game goes on the PC will learn more and more of Twopence's history and his connection to them and actually "meet" Twopence for his first time midway through the campaign (This would be the "Village of Homlett" part) where most of their questions about him will be answered. The finale ("Tomb of Horrors") will be started by the oldest Twopence the characters meet who will beg them to stop his time jumps and bring him back into normal time. The question I have now, that I ask the more experienced DMs here (I mainly ran Gauntlet-like dungeon crawls in 3.5) is can this work and what ways can I improve it?
#2 deadcarpenter Jun 21, 2010 22:18:54	I love the idea, the narrative thread, the time travel angle, and your sadism for whipping out "Tomb of Horrors". You've done plenty of big-picture campaign planning at this point, as your arc will take a once-weekly gaming group many months to get through. I think your next step is to figure out what kind of game your players want, and be sure you give it to them. IMHO this requires some detailed planning of the next gaming session (not the finale, or the turning point, but the NEXT one you guys play together). And don't put so much work into the larger story arc that you aren't willing to revise it (or trash it) if it isn't what your players want. Just curious...what went wrong with Encounters?
#3 neomoon Jun 22, 2010 16:43:15	Just curious...what went wrong with Encounters? Most of the guys who never played were too lost and really didn't understand why things were happening mechanically or were lost in how some of the things that were explained were worded. The storyline and the Encounter itself were fine, it was mostly mechanics that got a lot of the new people. I brought my DMG and PHB 1 and 2 (never played but I still bought the books) to the second game and it helped a little.
#4 uhf Jun 24, 2010 10:54:32	I liked the premise. I think you've got a decent enough formula to make it work. I wish to say that I don't like the WOTC modules. Particularly the ones you've chosen. I felt that Keep On The Shadowfell was annoying on so many levels. (Although I liked the off shoot encounters.) On the first level, there are Brutes which turned into grindy boring fights. Which is OK.. but many of them were back to back which makes for unhappy players. The Hobgoblins were also quite grindy. And actually so was the final fight. Take a look at Chaos Scar in D&D Insider to get an idea about building adventures that are more in step with 4e. Dead by Dawn will have your players begging for more. (Mine were.) I feel that 4e really makes crawls unpleasent at best. Monsters in rooms just isn't that exciting. I started my players with a run away stage coach robbery complete with epic swashbuckling fight on the top of the stage coach. Furthermore, creating your own adventures is much easier in 4e than in other editions. I really recommend giving it a whirl. Just read up on Grindy fights, and how to avoid them.
#5 Neutronium_Dragon Jun 24, 2010 13:29:54	I second the use of the Chaos Scar adventures to start with, rather than KotS. There's at least one tie-in to Thunderspire Labyrinth in the Chaos Scar material, so you won't lose out on the plot flow.