Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mahavira Mar 27, 2009 23:18:39	I've been reviewing the 3.5 adventure paths (Shackled city, Savage Tide, Age of Worms), and was wondering how difficult it would be to convert one of them to 4E (while we still play 3.5, I'm trying to get more 4E played). A major issue is going to be xp: going from 1-20 to 1-30 could be problematic, especially because it looks like you have about the same number of encounters per level. There seem to be two options here: add side quests or bulk up each module to increase the number of levels gained. Thoughts? A second issue will be the sheer number of new monsters: MMII looks like it'll have Demogorgon, and maybe some Demogorgon related monsters, but there is still a huge body of monsters used in the adventure paths which are either outright new or haven't been converted yet. While a veteran 4E user might have limited difficulty statting new monsters, my group hasn't even finished Keep on the Borderlands and I'm not even DMing it. Is it even worth -trying- to keep as close to the original modules as possible, or do the fundamental mechanical changes require 'reimagining'? Or is this a fool's errand to begin with and I should use 3.5 if at all, and save 4E for some other campaign?
#2 itarakoturo Apr 20, 2009 14:21:06	I actively convert adventure paths (in my case, Paizo's Rise of the Runelords AP) to 4th Edition, and it's a breeze. There are a number of ways that you can make the process relatively painless. First, subscribe to DDI. The Compendium is your best friend when it comes to finding appropriate monsters. Every monster that you can't find an analogue for in 4th Edition is one you probably need to make yourself, so before you go and do all that extra work, search the Compendium. You should feel free to take monsters that work the way you want one of your monsters to work, even if they aren't the same monster at all. For instance, at one point in my conversion I needed some overgrown donkey rats. Dire rats would have fit, but they're too low-level to be thrown into that portion of the adventure. So instead I chose to use the stat block for an attack dog. The players will never know the difference. Add more monsters. 3.5's encounter system was designed around the basic assumption that a monster with a CR equal to the party's level would be a credible threat, and sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't. 4th Edition's encounter system is designed around five monsters of the party's level posing a credible threat. Start coming up with ways to throw a few extra monsters into encounters that are lacking them. Resist the temptation to turn all of the single-monster fights into solo monster fights in 4th Edition. Those are fine some of the time, but you don't want them to comprise fully half the fights the PCs go through. Retool boring traps, if you can. A poison dart on a locked chest is boring. A wall that fires poison darts at the party while they dance around the room trying to fend off kobolds who know where the trap trigger squares are is not boring. Add skill challenges and quests where appropriate. This is pretty self-explanatory. Read the recent articles on skill challenge design, and check out WotC's adventures for examples of well-crafted skill challenges. This should get you well on your way to converting your first adventure. I'd be happy to offer what advice I can on specifics. If you'd like to take a look at an example of what a converted adventure path module might look like, see my project blog or the compiled PDF for Burnt Offerings.
#3 mahavira Apr 23, 2009 20:51:38	And here I thought this post had gone down for the third time... Thanks for the tips, I'll take a look at your conversion and see if I have further questions. I don't have a D&D Insider subscription at present (I was holding out for the portrait generator), though eventually I'll probably have to (too much stuff in dragon/dungeon). I'm trying to subtly (ok, not subtly) push one of the other DMs to run savage tide in 3.5 (I finally decided I wanted to play it more than DM) but the exercise of converting shackled city and age of worms is worthwhile just to build the skill set to work with 4E. Even with the suggestion of just substitute an existing statblock, dealing with some of them will be tough: it's like Paizo gave a bonus to writers who used obscure monsters from the later monster manuals...
#4 itarakoturo Apr 24, 2009 15:35:18	And here I thought this post had gone down for the third time... Thanks for the tips, I'll take a look at your conversion and see if I have further questions. I don't have a D&D Insider subscription at present (I was holding out for the portrait generator), though eventually I'll probably have to (too much stuff in dragon/dungeon). I'm trying to subtly (ok, not subtly) push one of the other DMs to run savage tide in 3.5 (I finally decided I wanted to play it more than DM) but the exercise of converting shackled city and age of worms is worthwhile just to build the skill set to work with 4E. Even with the suggestion of just substitute an existing statblock, dealing with some of them will be tough: it's like Paizo gave a bonus to writers who used obscure monsters from the later monster manuals... As far as I'm aware, Paizo's adventures provide full stat blocks for monsters that are not in the first 3.5 Monster Manual.
#5 Torodiamo May 02, 2009 6:11:16	ItaraKoturo, then you must be Scott from the Rusty Dragon, right? You´re underrating your effort by far. There are thousands of queries in the Internet for conversions of the 3.5 adventure paths (starting with Shackled City). There are even some claims of intent to work on it. But you alone managed to pull it off. You´re doing such an incredible job at it, it´s nigh unbelievable. I own six of these APs (having been a subscriber both to dungeon and then to Pathfinder until the end of "Second Darkness" plus having purchased the HC of "Shackled City). But I find it quite hard to convert 3rd to 4th edition. Which is quite sad, since I really prefer 4e. Maybe after having DM'ed "Rise of the Runelords" following your conversion, I can convert "Shackled City" on my own. You're really doing Dungeon & Dragons a huge favor with your work. As far as I can see a unique one!
#6 itarakoturo May 03, 2009 3:05:47	ItaraKoturo, then you must be Scott from the Rusty Dragon, right? You´re underrating your effort by far. There are thousands of queries in the Internet for conversions of the 3.5 adventure paths (starting with Shackled City). There are even some claims of intent to work on it. But you alone managed to pull it off. You´re doing such an incredible job at it, it´s nigh unbelievable. I own six of these APs (having been a subscriber both to dungeon and then to Pathfinder until the end of "Second Darkness" plus having purchased the HC of "Shackled City). But I find it quite hard to convert 3rd to 4th edition. Which is quite sad, since I really prefer 4e. Maybe after having DM'ed "Rise of the Runelords" following your conversion, I can convert "Shackled City" on my own. You're really doing Dungeon & Dragons a huge favor with your work. As far as I can see a unique one! That's exceptionally kind of you. Please let me know how your RotR campaign goes - preferably on the blog or one of my threads on the Paizo boards, as I check those very regularly. If you do decide to convert Shackled City, I'd also love to follow the project. Not only is this kind of work a boon to the community, but it is, I believe, hands down the best way to learn 4th Edition design. It's the game design equivalent of immersing yourself in a foreign country in order to learn the language. I very strongly advise it for anyone interested in 4th Edition design.