[3.5] Samurai Homebrew Feats Feedback

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

lord_karsus

Mar 25, 2009 17:13:07
-I changed the way the samurai in my campaign work, blending the CW stuff with the OA stuff, and my own ideas. I came up with two feats that I want some feedback about, to see if other people (especially the latter) think they're overpowered or otherwise problematic.

Ronin [General]
You are a Ronin Samurai, but can forcibly unlock the powers of your ancestral daisho.
Prerequisites: Samurai, Must have been disgraced and dishonored (DM’s Disgression)
Benefit: For one minute, the Samurai can force the powers of his ancestral daisho to manifest themselves. This ability can be used once per day, for one minute. When activating the powers of his ancestral daisho in this manner, he/she cannot change the enchantments on these items; they function as however they did before the Samurai was disgraced.
Normal: Disgraced/Dishonored Samurai lose the powers bestowed by their ancestors in their ancestral daisho.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each subsequent time this feat is taken, the length in which the disgraced Samurai can tap into the power of his ancestral daisho increases by one minute, and can be used an additional time per day.

Connection with the Ancestors [General]
You share a connection to your ancestors that is deeper than most
Prerequisites: Samurai, 7th Level
Benefit: As a full-round action, a Samurai can change the enchantments bestowed upon his/her ancestral daisho. He/she cannot exceed the limit the enchantments can be, but he/she can change which enchantments manifest themselves.
Normal: Changing the powers of a Samurai’s ancestral daisho normally requires (a) week(s) in prayer and meditation and a sacrifice of wealth.
#2

lord_karsus

Mar 29, 2009 12:48:16
-Overpowers things? Yes or no will do; I don't need in-depth posts where people microanalyze.
#3

eldritch_lord

Mar 29, 2009 13:14:54
Both look fine to me; I might even increase the time on the ronin feat to 10 minutes or an hour per use, though I'm not sure how that would interact with other samurai changes.
#4

lord_karsus

Mar 29, 2009 22:34:54
-Thank you; that's all I was looking for. Feedback from someone other than myself.
#5

hochiu

Mar 30, 2009 22:44:34
Rokugan d20 samurai solve the issue by not requiring any kind of silly Alignment requirements. Also, just because one individual is disgraced in the service of a lord doesn't mean his ancestors are all up in arms against him and will refuse to empower his abilities. Kind of similar to a Paladin's Code of Conduct - he may be actively working against his Church, but his God may recognize his cause as just.

Its more of a story situation than anything, and I feel that relying on a feat is kind of a waste of one, even if the Samurai get a ton of bonus feats. Also, the fact that its really a "DM discretion" means that the benefit of a feat is really kind of moot. Power Attack, Dodge, or all the other [General] feats don't fall under that kind of scrutiny.

The feat itself also seems weak, because it has such a limited scope and duration. One minute a day? I go through a ton of battles in a single evening, game time. If I were a dishonored samurai, and my ancestors weren't talking to me, and I wasn't concerned about regaining my honour, I wouldn't even bother trying to keep using my swords. After all, screw 'em. My family's been dishonored, there's no point in carrying them around anymore. Likewise, there's nothing to (mechanically) stop me from attempting to attain the [Exalted] feat that effectively does the same thing (Ancestral Relic).

As it is, I wouldn't take it if I were a Ronin.

I like the idea of Connection with the Ancestors, but it is far too fast in manifestation, particularly at 7th level. In my opinion, I think this would be a better higher level class ability than a feat, something that the Samurai attain due to their devotion to (whatever) and exemplary service. You can effectively have a character that will be able to, through the course of the battle, change the weapons of their swords at a fairly low level (comparitively). What's that? I don't have the right effect to bypass damage reduction? No worries *ding*.

As it is, I think it has the potential to cause major problems in combat, if not break the encounter depending on the player in question.

Just my
#6

lord_karsus

Mar 30, 2009 23:13:47
The feat itself also seems weak, because it has such a limited scope and duration. One minute a day? I go through a ton of battles in a single evening, game time. If I were a dishonored samurai, and my ancestors weren't talking to me, and I wasn't concerned about regaining my honour, I wouldn't even bother trying to keep using my swords. After all, screw 'em. My family's been dishonored, there's no point in carrying them around anymore. Likewise, there's nothing to (mechanically) stop me from attempting to attain the [Exalted] feat that effectively does the same thing (Ancestral Relic).

-And, here I thought that one minute per day, two minutes twice per day, and so on might have been too much. I am of the combat-light school, however. My personal idea concerning that was that, if you've disgraced yourself, you shouldn't be handed a proverbial "Get Out Of Jail Free" card by taking the feat and getting the normal Ancestral Daisho abilities. If you've done something to Dishonor yourself, I, personally, think there should be more than some social stigma and such, hence the ancestors drying up the abilities they bestow upon you, until you get your act together.

-When I envisioned it, I saw it akin to "forcing" the enchantments out of the sword against the will of the characters' ancestors, hence the shortish duration. What you recommend, based on the above, keeping with the idea that an hour and use per feat isn't worth it?

-I'll have to take a look at the BoED and at that feat.

I like the idea of Connection with the Ancestors, but it is far too fast in manifestation, particularly at 7th level. In my opinion, I think this would be a better higher level class ability than a feat, something that the Samurai attain due to their devotion to (whatever) and exemplary service. You can effectively have a character that will be able to, through the course of the battle, change the weapons of their swords at a fairly low level (comparitively). What's that? I don't have the right effect to bypass damage reduction? No worries *ding*.

As it is, I think it has the potential to cause major problems in combat, if not break the encounter depending on the player in question.

-I was originally thinking of implementing it as a Class Ability, but decided against it. In my Samurai class, I left in place the table from OA dealing with improving the enchantments on the Ancestral Daisho. My though process behind it was that being able to instantly change the enchantments on the weapons isn't something that is especially common/prevalent, leaving only a dedicated few to be able to do so.

-Perhaps a Prestige Class? Or, a Feat chain, or sorts, with this being the final one?

-Thank you for the feedback.
#7

hochiu

Mar 31, 2009 12:07:50
I made a post last night, but for whatever reason these forums glitched (per usual). So here's the post.

I've been kind of shying away from feats for abilities like this. It's been my personal opinion (as well as that of a friend of mine) that feats should be really noteworthy. 3e in general has a sad tendency of making really under-powered feats available, which in turn wastes a feat slot. It's not so bad if you're a fighter or samurai who has a lot of bonus feats to blow, but for other people it's a drag.

My problem with the Ronin feat is that its so completely up to the DM as to the exact nature of it. It's hard to say exactly how this feat works with your rehash of the Samurai class without seeing it, but basing the idea off of the OA/Rokugan samurai, that's really the ONLY added power other than their feats that they get. Unless you've given them other abilities that kind of displace Ancestral Daisho from the spotlight place as the core class ability losing access to it is very harmful.

I guess my point is that I kind of view gaining your honor back in the same way a Paladin will quest to regain their abilities (or some likewise ability), and that a feat kind of cheapens it too. I'm trying to argue from both sides: In combat as is, the feat is pretty weak because you need to know exactly when you need to use it, and it is no guarantee that you'll be covered totally. Likewise, I think placating ancestors/regaining honor is more of a story/rp rule that is kind of cheapened by a feat doing it for you. And what happens to the feat when you gain back your honor? Do you get to swap it out for another one? Or do just lose the feat slot?

If you want to make it a feat, make it a feat that's worthy of taking up a character's valuable feat slot. After all, you could be giving up completing a more combat-oriented feat chain that could help you MORE than having your ancestral daisho handy. If you use the rules, you still have a Masterwork bastard sword and short sword you can get enchanted, too, seperately from the Ancestral Daisho ability.

I really don't know about how to change it right now, heh. I'm a little tired. Although you've given me a really interesting idea about letting rogues and other characters like that make Use Magic Device checks in order to do the same thing (maybe you can give them a check that they have to make in order to force the ancestral spirits out)

Ancestral Relic is basically the OA Ancestral Daisho ability, except you need to be 3rd level and have a Good alignment. It costs a little bit more money than the OA version, I think. But given the fact that you don't need a requisite exalted feat (thus, you don't even need to be a really "exalted character") by the definition in the book, it means that I coud easily take it as a character who loses his ability.

With the other feat, you could easily make a 5 level prestige class around the idea of being able to swap out daisho abilities/unlocking greater abilities than their common brethren. If you want to go through that work. But you also have to remember that when you get to higher levels that character represents the pinnacle of the class. There aren't too many high level characters in the world that can compete with them.

Just some food for thought.