[3.5] Spell Point Systems - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

[3.5] Spell Point Systems

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
magicchupacabra
Feb 01, 2009 14:46:59 In the game I run we are in the process of moving over to a spell point system that was originally based off of the spell points in the UA book. Outside of getting the base points more in line with what a caster in a normal spell slot system would be able to put out per day we are trying to figure out how to remove the spell slots completely from play without making any of the classes redundant if possible.

Has anyone used a system like that within the 3.5 D20 rule set? If so what problems did you see come along other than getting use to a new rule set?

Any feedback for this would be great.
#2
eldritch_lord
Feb 01, 2009 16:11:01 Spell points just don't work for Vancian casting. It works for psionics because everything is built with PP scaling in mind, so every option is on par with the other options. With Vancian casting, however, there are many spells with non-scaling effects, so you can conserve your spell points more than you should be able to, and the only thing that costs more is blasting...which a competent caster won't be doing.
#3
magicchupacabra
Feb 01, 2009 16:51:54
Spell points just don't work for Vancian casting. It works for psionics because everything is built with PP scaling in mind, so every option is on par with the other options. With Vancian casting, however, there are many spells with non-scaling effects, so you can conserve your spell points more than you should be able to, and the only thing that costs more is blasting...which a competent caster won't be doing.

Ok so the system would need a more scalable system put into place then and the psionic system is the example you're providing for reference in order to keep the spell point system from becoming an overly conserved abused system?

I'm asking because your post isn't exactly 100% clear (granted mine might not have been as well).
#4
eldritch_lord
Feb 01, 2009 17:14:08
Ok so the system would need a more scalable system put into place then and the psionic system is the example you're providing for reference in order to keep the spell point system from becoming an overly conserved abused system?

I'm asking because your post isn't exactly 100% clear (granted mine might not have been as well).

What I'm getting at is that most magic isn't inherently scalable. A finger of death or polymorph spell is the same whether you spend 1 point or 20 points on it, with the only difference being the caster level (which doesn't matter to those spells), because CL = SP spent. You can't make Vancian casting work with spell points without overhauling the spells entirely; too many are all-or-nothing effects rather than scaling ones.
#5
magicchupacabra
Feb 01, 2009 19:22:01
What I'm getting at is that most magic isn't inherently scalable. A finger of death or polymorph spell is the same whether you spend 1 point or 20 points on it, with the only difference being the caster level (which doesn't matter to those spells), because CL = SP spent. You can't make Vancian casting work with spell points without overhauling the spells entirely; too many are all-or-nothing effects rather than scaling ones.

Ah ok. Much clearer there. So we're potentially looking at a larger amount of work than expected. It'll be interesting to see if they will want to invest that much labor as a whole for the system (I'm such an evil dm....making my players work with me to build up a system).

Any other advise/suggestions/hurdles that anyone has seen?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 magicchupacabra Feb 01, 2009 14:46:59	In the game I run we are in the process of moving over to a spell point system that was originally based off of the spell points in the UA book. Outside of getting the base points more in line with what a caster in a normal spell slot system would be able to put out per day we are trying to figure out how to remove the spell slots completely from play without making any of the classes redundant if possible. Has anyone used a system like that within the 3.5 D20 rule set? If so what problems did you see come along other than getting use to a new rule set? Any feedback for this would be great.
#2 eldritch_lord Feb 01, 2009 16:11:01	Spell points just don't work for Vancian casting. It works for psionics because everything is built with PP scaling in mind, so every option is on par with the other options. With Vancian casting, however, there are many spells with non-scaling effects, so you can conserve your spell points more than you should be able to, and the only thing that costs more is blasting...which a competent caster won't be doing.
#3 magicchupacabra Feb 01, 2009 16:51:54	Spell points just don't work for Vancian casting. It works for psionics because everything is built with PP scaling in mind, so every option is on par with the other options. With Vancian casting, however, there are many spells with non-scaling effects, so you can conserve your spell points more than you should be able to, and the only thing that costs more is blasting...which a competent caster won't be doing. Ok so the system would need a more scalable system put into place then and the psionic system is the example you're providing for reference in order to keep the spell point system from becoming an overly conserved abused system? I'm asking because your post isn't exactly 100% clear (granted mine might not have been as well).
#4 eldritch_lord Feb 01, 2009 17:14:08	Ok so the system would need a more scalable system put into place then and the psionic system is the example you're providing for reference in order to keep the spell point system from becoming an overly conserved abused system? I'm asking because your post isn't exactly 100% clear (granted mine might not have been as well). What I'm getting at is that most magic isn't inherently scalable. A finger of death or polymorph spell is the same whether you spend 1 point or 20 points on it, with the only difference being the caster level (which doesn't matter to those spells), because CL = SP spent. You can't make Vancian casting work with spell points without overhauling the spells entirely; too many are all-or-nothing effects rather than scaling ones.
#5 magicchupacabra Feb 01, 2009 19:22:01	What I'm getting at is that most magic isn't inherently scalable. A finger of death or polymorph spell is the same whether you spend 1 point or 20 points on it, with the only difference being the caster level (which doesn't matter to those spells), because CL = SP spent. You can't make Vancian casting work with spell points without overhauling the spells entirely; too many are all-or-nothing effects rather than scaling ones. Ah ok. Much clearer there. So we're potentially looking at a larger amount of work than expected. It'll be interesting to see if they will want to invest that much labor as a whole for the system (I'm such an evil dm....making my players work with me to build up a system). Any other advise/suggestions/hurdles that anyone has seen?