4E Gestalt idea PEACH - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

4E Gestalt idea PEACH

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Keiichi_m
Feb 25, 2009 5:21:55 This seems like a fairly simple idea so I don't know if it's been posted yet. It's designed for higher powered campaigns where each player probably has some pretty sweet stats (like a 45 point buy or roll 4D6 10 times reroll 1s take the 6 highest or something)

This idea has a similar idea to 3rds "Two classes" but is instead more along the lines of "One Class, Two Builds" Pretty much you would have two sets of powers at level one you would get 3 at will powers 1 that was constant and one for each build (humans get 4 2 constants and 1 for each build) every level you would get choose 2 powers (4 in the case of the wizard.) and you would prepare them in a set, so you would prepare power set 1 or power set 2 and get the lot of powers in that set. Classes that have multiple class options like the rogue’s artful dodger, ruthless ruffian and brutal scoundrel can take 2 of those options and assign them to a set.

So as an example a fighter might take 1 hander and 2 hander weapon talents and during an extended rest he picks one for the day (Call it battle meditation) Cleave as his standard power, tide of iron for his 1 hander build and reaping strike for his two hander build. He takes Steel Serpent stike for his 2 hand build and passing attack for his one hander build, Brute strike for 2 hand and villain's menace for 1 hand, Boundless endurance for 1 hand and Unstoppable 2 hand, sweeping blow one hand and crushing blow 2 hand.

So his sets look like this

Set 1
One Handed Weapon Talent
Cleave, tide of iron
passing attack
villain's menace
Boundless endurance
sweeping blow

Set 2
Two Handed Wepon Talent
Cleave, reaping strike
Steel Serpent stike
Brute Strike
Crushing Blow

Effectivly you have almost double the amount of powers but only 1 set of them per day

Think it'd work?
#2
fenrir7139
Feb 25, 2009 7:09:09 I don't see why not; seems unecessarily complicated to me, but, to each his own, guess. It isn't really unbalanced (I don't think), because it's just like trading out two characters every day.
#3
Silvercrys
Feb 25, 2009 7:20:26 I agree with Fenrir.

When I DM, my group's usually rather small, so I've been thinking of doing something similar. I'd give two classes though, and not two builds of the same one (mostly because the point of me giving them another build is to fill holes in the party due to it's size).
#4
masteraaron
Feb 25, 2009 7:48:39 I agree with Silvercrys - give people two classes. The way I'd do that is this:

Choose two classes at first level. You get all the class features of each, and the benefits of each. Special accommodations might have to be made for a class mix which mixes weapons and implements, like a fighter/wizard gestalt; perhaps letting the fighter's weapon automatically act as an implement. Combine proficiencies. You do not combine hit points or skills, but instead get to choose which class determines those. Possibly consider increasing hit points by a small amount. Finally, since the players will have to fight higher-level enemies as gestalt characters, increase their level bonus by a base +1 (so that it becomes +2 at level 2, +3 at level 4, etc.). This will keep their chance of hitting their targets appropriate without increasing damage.

For powers, allow them to pick from either class freely. In addition, they receive one bonus encounter power and one bonus daily power at first level, which can be chosen from either class. These powers can be changed freely as they level, outside of the normal retraining rules. This lets gestalt characters have additional powers without letting them ignore their at-wills. Finally, at every level where the character would gain a utility power, it instead gains two, chosen freely between the classes.

Obviously, monsters will have to get tougher. Off the top of my head, I would treat the party as having one additional character and have them fight monsters one or two levels higher as a reasonable encounter. They'll be much more resilient with increased hit points and additional healing from healer gestalt, but their ability to deal damage will not be substantially increased, so be careful not to make things too tough.
#5
elondir
Feb 25, 2009 8:14:09 I prefer a system where all class abilities from all classes are on your class list, then you pick them as you please, as long as you're high enough level. Same number of actions, and you're effectively classless.
#6
ff6shadow
Feb 25, 2009 8:21:39 I think the best method of doing 4th edition Gestalt that I've seen was letting the players choose a class template from page 183 of the DMG. They get the defenses, proficiencies, class features, two new skills, a +2 to saving throws. Power wise, they get a new at-will, a 1st level encounter power and daily power from their gestalt class. At 2nd level, they get an extra utility power from it. At 11th level they get another encounter and utility power. Finally, at 21st they get a second daily and a third utility. On top of this, give them an Action Point.

Switch the rules up a bit to let them choose their normal powers from each class, and you've got a functioning gestalt with a durable party.
#7
masteraaron
Feb 25, 2009 9:14:58
I think the best method of doing 4th edition Gestalt that I've seen was letting the players choose a class template from page 183 of the DMG. They get the defenses, proficiencies, class features, two new skills, a +2 to saving throws. Power wise, they get a new at-will, a 1st level encounter power and daily power from their gestalt class. At 2nd level, they get an extra utility power from it. At 11th level they get another encounter and utility power. Finally, at 21st they get a second daily and a third utility. On top of this, give them an Action Point.

Switch the rules up a bit to let them choose their normal powers from each class, and you've got a functioning gestalt with a durable party.

Oooh. I like that. It's very similar to my method, but simpler and uses existing rules rather than inventing new things. +1
#8
tiornys
Feb 25, 2009 10:25:32
I think the best method of doing 4th edition Gestalt that I've seen was letting the players choose a class template from page 183 of the DMG.

Here's a thread where I talk about this idea.

t~

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Keiichi_m Feb 25, 2009 5:21:55	This seems like a fairly simple idea so I don't know if it's been posted yet. It's designed for higher powered campaigns where each player probably has some pretty sweet stats (like a 45 point buy or roll 4D6 10 times reroll 1s take the 6 highest or something) This idea has a similar idea to 3rds "Two classes" but is instead more along the lines of "One Class, Two Builds" Pretty much you would have two sets of powers at level one you would get 3 at will powers 1 that was constant and one for each build (humans get 4 2 constants and 1 for each build) every level you would get choose 2 powers (4 in the case of the wizard.) and you would prepare them in a set, so you would prepare power set 1 or power set 2 and get the lot of powers in that set. Classes that have multiple class options like the rogue’s artful dodger, ruthless ruffian and brutal scoundrel can take 2 of those options and assign them to a set. So as an example a fighter might take 1 hander and 2 hander weapon talents and during an extended rest he picks one for the day (Call it battle meditation) Cleave as his standard power, tide of iron for his 1 hander build and reaping strike for his two hander build. He takes Steel Serpent stike for his 2 hand build and passing attack for his one hander build, Brute strike for 2 hand and villain's menace for 1 hand, Boundless endurance for 1 hand and Unstoppable 2 hand, sweeping blow one hand and crushing blow 2 hand. So his sets look like this Set 1 One Handed Weapon Talent Cleave, tide of iron passing attack villain's menace Boundless endurance sweeping blow Set 2 Two Handed Wepon Talent Cleave, reaping strike Steel Serpent stike Brute Strike Crushing Blow Effectivly you have almost double the amount of powers but only 1 set of them per day Think it'd work?
#2 fenrir7139 Feb 25, 2009 7:09:09	I don't see why not; seems unecessarily complicated to me, but, to each his own, guess. It isn't really unbalanced (I don't think), because it's just like trading out two characters every day.
#3 Silvercrys Feb 25, 2009 7:20:26	I agree with Fenrir. When I DM, my group's usually rather small, so I've been thinking of doing something similar. I'd give two classes though, and not two builds of the same one (mostly because the point of me giving them another build is to fill holes in the party due to it's size).
#4 masteraaron Feb 25, 2009 7:48:39	I agree with Silvercrys - give people two classes. The way I'd do that is this: Choose two classes at first level. You get all the class features of each, and the benefits of each. Special accommodations might have to be made for a class mix which mixes weapons and implements, like a fighter/wizard gestalt; perhaps letting the fighter's weapon automatically act as an implement. Combine proficiencies. You do not combine hit points or skills, but instead get to choose which class determines those. Possibly consider increasing hit points by a small amount. Finally, since the players will have to fight higher-level enemies as gestalt characters, increase their level bonus by a base +1 (so that it becomes +2 at level 2, +3 at level 4, etc.). This will keep their chance of hitting their targets appropriate without increasing damage. For powers, allow them to pick from either class freely. In addition, they receive one bonus encounter power and one bonus daily power at first level, which can be chosen from either class. These powers can be changed freely as they level, outside of the normal retraining rules. This lets gestalt characters have additional powers without letting them ignore their at-wills. Finally, at every level where the character would gain a utility power, it instead gains two, chosen freely between the classes. Obviously, monsters will have to get tougher. Off the top of my head, I would treat the party as having one additional character and have them fight monsters one or two levels higher as a reasonable encounter. They'll be much more resilient with increased hit points and additional healing from healer gestalt, but their ability to deal damage will not be substantially increased, so be careful not to make things too tough.
#5 elondir Feb 25, 2009 8:14:09	I prefer a system where all class abilities from all classes are on your class list, then you pick them as you please, as long as you're high enough level. Same number of actions, and you're effectively classless.
#6 ff6shadow Feb 25, 2009 8:21:39	I think the best method of doing 4th edition Gestalt that I've seen was letting the players choose a class template from page 183 of the DMG. They get the defenses, proficiencies, class features, two new skills, a +2 to saving throws. Power wise, they get a new at-will, a 1st level encounter power and daily power from their gestalt class. At 2nd level, they get an extra utility power from it. At 11th level they get another encounter and utility power. Finally, at 21st they get a second daily and a third utility. On top of this, give them an Action Point. Switch the rules up a bit to let them choose their normal powers from each class, and you've got a functioning gestalt with a durable party.
#7 masteraaron Feb 25, 2009 9:14:58	I think the best method of doing 4th edition Gestalt that I've seen was letting the players choose a class template from page 183 of the DMG. They get the defenses, proficiencies, class features, two new skills, a +2 to saving throws. Power wise, they get a new at-will, a 1st level encounter power and daily power from their gestalt class. At 2nd level, they get an extra utility power from it. At 11th level they get another encounter and utility power. Finally, at 21st they get a second daily and a third utility. On top of this, give them an Action Point. Switch the rules up a bit to let them choose their normal powers from each class, and you've got a functioning gestalt with a durable party. Oooh. I like that. It's very similar to my method, but simpler and uses existing rules rather than inventing new things. +1
#8 tiornys Feb 25, 2009 10:25:32	I think the best method of doing 4th edition Gestalt that I've seen was letting the players choose a class template from page 183 of the DMG. Here's a thread where I talk about this idea. t~