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4e gestalt

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
alyss_dup
Jul 24, 2009 8:11:37 Apologies if this has been up before, but I ran a search and got nothing.

So, at the moment I've just got one PC playing in my game, and I thought I could try a 4e gestalt. But: how to do? Any suggestions?
#2
zoraker
Jul 24, 2009 9:47:27 try giving him an advantage by giving him a npc and some low lv monsters to verse. me when i started playing 4th befor i got a party to gether i was a teifling warlock allied with a human swordmage and it was just me and my dm. i actually started at lv 6 lol lucky me
#3
pluisjen
Jul 24, 2009 9:51:29 How about the Hybrid rules from DDi?

That's pretty much the Gestalt idea, minus the 'more powah' that is usually comes with. You can even have some players go hybrid and some normal characters.
#4
alyss_dup
Jul 25, 2009 6:47:16 Hybrid? Which issue where they in?
#5
Goober4473
Jul 25, 2009 17:07:37 Speaking from experience, even with gestalt, one character is pretty boring, since 4e is all about team tactics. Try really hard to find one more person, and have them each make two characters. Their second one can even be something like a summoned being or an extension of the first, to keep roleplaying to one character per player.

If you want to do gestalt, it's pretty simple. Take the highest hit points and healing surges, take all proficiencies, take all automatic skills, then combine the skill lists and take the highest extra number, take all class features. For powers, choose the normal number of powers for each class, with just one bonus at-will for humans chosen from either class. For each level of encounter or daily power, you can use either power, at which point the other is expended as well. For utilities, you could either just give all of them, or do the same thing as encounter/daily powers if they have the same recharge (at-will/encounter/daily), and if they don't share a recharge, make it so once one is used, the other can't be used that day.

You would also take two paragon paths and two epic destinies, sharing the power recharges as normal.
#6
pluisjen
Jul 25, 2009 17:28:38
Hybrid? Which issue where they in?

Sorry, I don't actually have DDi

Maybe someone else can clarify where they are exactly; I've just heard a lot about them and figured they were just what you were looking for
#7
alyss_dup
Jul 26, 2009 8:08:52
Speaking from experience, even with gestalt, one character is pretty boring, since 4e is all about team tactics. Try really hard to find one more person, and have them each make two characters. Their second one can even be something like a summoned being or an extension of the first, to keep roleplaying to one character per player.

If you want to do gestalt, it's pretty simple. Take the highest hit points and healing surges, take all proficiencies, take all automatic skills, then combine the skill lists and take the highest extra number, take all class features. For powers, choose the normal number of powers for each class, with just one bonus at-will for humans chosen from either class. For each level of encounter or daily power, you can use either power, at which point the other is expended as well. For utilities, you could either just give all of them, or do the same thing as encounter/daily powers if they have the same recharge (at-will/encounter/daily), and if they don't share a recharge, make it so once one is used, the other can't be used that day.

You would also take two paragon paths and two epic destinies, sharing the power recharges as normal.

I was thinking of trying that method before, but have ended up with something a little different. And another player simply isn't possible: I'm just DMing for my brother, it's very informal, and everyone else I know is busy or doesn't want to play.

The way I've done it is to level him up to 5th and esentially combine two PCs into one. So he picks two class and gets everything from them; the end result is sort of like a solo monster PC, complete with a special class feature:

Quick (unuseable while bloodied)
You may take two standard actions a turn instead of one. As normal, you may use a move or minor action in place of this standard action.

It might sounds overpowered, but I thought that, seeing as how in a party gets 5 of each action and has 5 times as many hit points, it really just turned one 5th level character into two 5th level characters, making it roughly on par for the 1st level adventure I'm running. And so far it's seemed to go that way.

What do you think?
#8
Chimerasame
Jul 26, 2009 11:16:54 I'd take off the "unusable when bloodied" bit (after all, depending on the player's choices, some things might work better when bloodied, and you probably wouldn't want to nerf those...). But I'd add that the two standard actions cannot both be abilities granted by the same class.

So you can do two non-class generic abilities (magic item powers, melee/ranged basic attacks that aren't also class at-wills), or you can do one of those and one class at-will/enc/daily/util, or, you can do one EACH of the two classes.

You might also want to give some extra ability score bonuses, so that the player isn't restricted quite as much in the two classes s/he picks. For example if you're a Rogue/Invoker, you pretty much need four different abilities. I'd say up the point-buy to 30 or so, and give three or even four different ability scores a +1 bonus at 4th/8th/etc.

I think the character will still be weaker than two distinct characters, because they can't flank, they only have one HP pool, one action point pool, etc... however, there are also things your gestalt can do that two characters can't, such as move three times in a turn without an action point. You'd be a star runner Or, move twice and still get off one standard attack, without an action point. Star... kiter?
#9
alyss_dup
Jul 26, 2009 17:49:57 He built a warforged barbarian/artificer, just with the PHB method 1. It was a little stretched, but ended up with (at level 5) Str 19, Con 15, Dex 10, Int 15, Wis 11, Cha 12. Tactically played it's quite nice; he tends to put down Predatory Shards, stay in that area, and use Devastating Strike on anyone who comes for him. And a combination of Silver Phoenix Rage and Recuperating Strike to keep his hit points up.
#10
Stuntman
Jul 27, 2009 11:09:10
Hybrid? Which issue where they in?

Dragon #375. This is the second and most up to date playtest article on Hybrid Characters.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 alyss_dup Jul 24, 2009 8:11:37	Apologies if this has been up before, but I ran a search and got nothing. So, at the moment I've just got one PC playing in my game, and I thought I could try a 4e gestalt. But: how to do? Any suggestions?
#2 zoraker Jul 24, 2009 9:47:27	try giving him an advantage by giving him a npc and some low lv monsters to verse. me when i started playing 4th befor i got a party to gether i was a teifling warlock allied with a human swordmage and it was just me and my dm. i actually started at lv 6 lol lucky me
#3 pluisjen Jul 24, 2009 9:51:29	How about the Hybrid rules from DDi? That's pretty much the Gestalt idea, minus the 'more powah' that is usually comes with. You can even have some players go hybrid and some normal characters.
#4 alyss_dup Jul 25, 2009 6:47:16	Hybrid? Which issue where they in?
#5 Goober4473 Jul 25, 2009 17:07:37	Speaking from experience, even with gestalt, one character is pretty boring, since 4e is all about team tactics. Try really hard to find one more person, and have them each make two characters. Their second one can even be something like a summoned being or an extension of the first, to keep roleplaying to one character per player. If you want to do gestalt, it's pretty simple. Take the highest hit points and healing surges, take all proficiencies, take all automatic skills, then combine the skill lists and take the highest extra number, take all class features. For powers, choose the normal number of powers for each class, with just one bonus at-will for humans chosen from either class. For each level of encounter or daily power, you can use either power, at which point the other is expended as well. For utilities, you could either just give all of them, or do the same thing as encounter/daily powers if they have the same recharge (at-will/encounter/daily), and if they don't share a recharge, make it so once one is used, the other can't be used that day. You would also take two paragon paths and two epic destinies, sharing the power recharges as normal.
#6 pluisjen Jul 25, 2009 17:28:38	Hybrid? Which issue where they in? Sorry, I don't actually have DDi Maybe someone else can clarify where they are exactly; I've just heard a lot about them and figured they were just what you were looking for
#7 alyss_dup Jul 26, 2009 8:08:52	Speaking from experience, even with gestalt, one character is pretty boring, since 4e is all about team tactics. Try really hard to find one more person, and have them each make two characters. Their second one can even be something like a summoned being or an extension of the first, to keep roleplaying to one character per player. If you want to do gestalt, it's pretty simple. Take the highest hit points and healing surges, take all proficiencies, take all automatic skills, then combine the skill lists and take the highest extra number, take all class features. For powers, choose the normal number of powers for each class, with just one bonus at-will for humans chosen from either class. For each level of encounter or daily power, you can use either power, at which point the other is expended as well. For utilities, you could either just give all of them, or do the same thing as encounter/daily powers if they have the same recharge (at-will/encounter/daily), and if they don't share a recharge, make it so once one is used, the other can't be used that day. You would also take two paragon paths and two epic destinies, sharing the power recharges as normal. I was thinking of trying that method before, but have ended up with something a little different. And another player simply isn't possible: I'm just DMing for my brother, it's very informal, and everyone else I know is busy or doesn't want to play. The way I've done it is to level him up to 5th and esentially combine two PCs into one. So he picks two class and gets everything from them; the end result is sort of like a solo monster PC, complete with a special class feature: Quick (unuseable while bloodied) You may take two standard actions a turn instead of one. As normal, you may use a move or minor action in place of this standard action. It might sounds overpowered, but I thought that, seeing as how in a party gets 5 of each action and has 5 times as many hit points, it really just turned one 5th level character into two 5th level characters, making it roughly on par for the 1st level adventure I'm running. And so far it's seemed to go that way. What do you think?
#8 Chimerasame Jul 26, 2009 11:16:54	I'd take off the "unusable when bloodied" bit (after all, depending on the player's choices, some things might work better when bloodied, and you probably wouldn't want to nerf those...). But I'd add that the two standard actions cannot both be abilities granted by the same class. So you can do two non-class generic abilities (magic item powers, melee/ranged basic attacks that aren't also class at-wills), or you can do one of those and one class at-will/enc/daily/util, or, you can do one EACH of the two classes. You might also want to give some extra ability score bonuses, so that the player isn't restricted quite as much in the two classes s/he picks. For example if you're a Rogue/Invoker, you pretty much need four different abilities. I'd say up the point-buy to 30 or so, and give three or even four different ability scores a +1 bonus at 4th/8th/etc. I think the character will still be weaker than two distinct characters, because they can't flank, they only have one HP pool, one action point pool, etc... however, there are also things your gestalt can do that two characters can't, such as move three times in a turn without an action point. You'd be a star runner Or, move twice and still get off one standard attack, without an action point. Star... kiter?
#9 alyss_dup Jul 26, 2009 17:49:57	He built a warforged barbarian/artificer, just with the PHB method 1. It was a little stretched, but ended up with (at level 5) Str 19, Con 15, Dex 10, Int 15, Wis 11, Cha 12. Tactically played it's quite nice; he tends to put down Predatory Shards, stay in that area, and use Devastating Strike on anyone who comes for him. And a combination of Silver Phoenix Rage and Recuperating Strike to keep his hit points up.
#10 Stuntman Jul 27, 2009 11:09:10	Hybrid? Which issue where they in? Dragon #375. This is the second and most up to date playtest article on Hybrid Characters.