The goal here is to create a simpler and quicker to play 4e while at the same time eliminate things from 4e that I don't care for. Many of thses changes make for weaker characters and make them easier to challenge. So here we go.
1) No leaders -- One thing I don't like about 4e is too much healing (especially in combat). Eliminating leaders takes care of much of this. Also it would eliminate many temporary bonuses. That should simplify combat some.
2) No minor actions -- Characters would only get a move and a standard action each turn. So most things that require a minor action would have to be done with a move or standard action. A few things that require a minor action would be changed to a free action (e.g. Divine Challenge and Dwarven Resilience -- more on this later).
3) Eliminate many immediate action powers -- I don't like immediate action powers. It gives extra actions and slows things down. Immediate action powers that are racial or class features would be kept. Level immediate action powers would be eliminated.
4) No paragon paths or epic destinies -- Each character would still level through paragon and epic tiers and get all the other benefits of those levels. This would make higher level characters easier to challenge and simplify things.
Thoughts? Opinions?
Well, you managed to thoroughly get rid of everything I find interesting about the combat system.
You are welcome.
That aside, I'd mostly warn that fights will get substantially longer under these rules
I am not sure about that. The number of rounds will probably increase but rounds should go quicker.
and they heavily damage any class that uses their minor actions.
That's why some things that are minor action now will become free actions.
EDIT: Another way these changes would speed up combat would be that the PCs would be challenged by lower level monsters that are easier to kill.
EDIT: I meant to say second wind and not healing surges.
To give a little more info on the minor action powers (MAP), as stated previouly some of these would be made into free actions but you could only use one of these MAPs as free action per turn. So we will call them Free*. For example both Divine Challenge and Dwarven Resilience would be Free* actions but to use both in a turn you would need to use a move or standard for one of them.
Here are is another mod:
6) Inherient bonuses would be in play, but with a change. Each character would get +1 to attack, damage, and all defenses for each half-tier (i.e. +1 for lvls 1-5, +2 for lvls 6-10, etc.). This is a small power bump for the characters but not a big deal considering what is being taken away.
Which basically means you'll need to rework many of the classes because they use their minor action for their class features (marking, hunter's quarry, warlock's curse, etc)
Simply not calling it a minor action doesn't make anything easier or faster.
If you're limiting the use of previously minor free actions anyway, you have not reduced the complexity of the system, only the utility of the labeling, and would be equally well off to leave minor actions in.
I am keeping a few of the minor action stuff (by converting the to free), but most of the things that are minor actions will need to be done with a move or standard. So I do see a net gain in efficiency and simplicity.
For example, a wizard would have to give up a move or standard to sustain a "sustain minor" effect. That is a one less action that wizard will potentially take. It also prevents a player from using his move and standard and then start searching his character sheet looking to see if there is something he can do with his minor action.
Which basically means you'll need to rework many of the classes because they use their minor action for their class features (marking, hunter's quarry, warlock's curse, etc)
Yes, some of those things will have to be reworked.
If your players are taking time out of the game to find things to do with their minors that you think they shouldn't be, here's an idea:
Ask them to learn their characters' capabilities, so they don't slow down the game. Or ask them to plan their turns in advance. Or set a turn timer, so that if they've not decided what they're doing with their minor after a minute (or however long you feel is appropriate), they lose it.
But a wholesale rewrite of the game to fix something that's not broken seems excessive, particularly when most classes use minor actions.
Similarly, removing Immediate powers dramatically reduces the effectiveness and/or survivability of some classes. And if you let some of them keep the ones they get as class features (mark punishments and the like) it seems unfair to nix some of the best powers in the game for other classes (Disruptive Strike, for instance).
Removing PPs and EDs; the justification seems acceptable, but you wind up with several dead levels that way.
Overall, you seem to be screwing with a well-balanced and play-tested game because you don't like its mechanics. If you like it that little, why not just find a game you DO like?
If you make it a free action, I assume you will have a 1/round limit.
If everyone wants to use this free action to use their powers, haven't you in effect just renamed minor action free action?
No, what it does is forces the player not to choose sustain powers, because being locked in place or not attacking is a huge punishment for sustaining a power that would normally use minor actions.
If your players are taking time out of the game to find things to do with their minors that you think they shouldn't be, here's an idea:
Ask them to learn their characters' capabilities, so they don't slow down the game. Or ask them to plan their turns in advance. Or set a turn timer, so that if they've not decided what they're doing with their minor after a minute (or however long you feel is appropriate), they lose it.
That stuff would work with most groups (and I have used som of tha in the past). This particular group is not normal. The group consists of me and 6 teen/pre-teen boys (my son and his cousins). About half the group is really engaged in the game. The rest are not. They enjoy coming together and enjoy playing but their focus isn't there. I have tried simpiler systems to compensate for this but me and the ones that are fully engaged really like 4e. So I am working on a way make everyone happy.
However, I am rethinking the minor action thing. The main reason being that it does change the rules of the game. I think I like simplification by exclusion better.
But a wholesale rewrite of the game to fix something that's not broken seems excessive, particularly when most classes use minor actions.
I like excessive.
Similarly, removing Immediate powers dramatically reduces the effectiveness and/or survivability of some classes. And if you let some of them keep the ones they get as class features (mark punishments and the like) it seems unfair to nix some of the best powers in the game for other classes (Disruptive Strike, for instance).
There are lots of powers and classes. If I don't mind if some get left behind.
Removing PPs and EDs; the justification seems acceptable, but you wind up with several dead levels that way.
Dead levels don't bother me.
Overall, you seem to be screwing with a well-balanced and play-tested game because you don't like its mechanics. If you like it that little, why not just find a game you DO like?
I do like 4e. I think it just went too far with some things. So I want to tone it down.
If you make it a free action, I assume you will have a 1/round limit.
If everyone wants to use this free action to use their powers, haven't you in effect just renamed minor action free action?
If all minor powers were reclassed as free then that would be correct. But if only a few things do then no.
I agree that loosing minor actions would have little impact.
I think the majority of slow combat PC side is due to various conditional bonuses and damage. The gloves that do +2 damage to bloodied characters, Leaders bonus to hit, Iron armbands +2 in melee only, crit dice, combat advantage, sneak attack (are you flanking), ongoing damage, various save or until next turn effects. etc. etc. etc.
- Justisaur
I would also reccomend getting rid of most monsters. They have all this unnessacary variation in them, levels, roles, they take turns in combat...
I would go with one monster that levels at the same pace as the PC's and just keeps respawning.
If you want you could describe it differently each time.
-Usagi