1) Does anyone have a suggestion for their racial power?
2) What should a mermaid's land speed be? I was thinking 1 square per round, but then they couldn't crawl across difficult terrain. So maybe 2 per round is more appropriate.
Any thoughts?
1) Does anyone have a suggestion for their racial power?
I would suggest something psychic. be it unearthly beauty, a enchanting song, ...
2) What should a mermaid's land speed be?
how about on land: always prone? (there are already crawling rules in the PHB)
The only way I could figure out to make the concept work, though, was to have their racial power be an at-will that would allow them to polymorph their fins into legs and back again, allowing them to switch between a land speed and a swim speed whenever they want.
I'm actually working on a home-brew Merfolk race at the moment.
The only way I could figure out to make the concept work, though, was to have their racial power be an at-will that would allow them to polymorph their fins into legs and back again, allowing them to switch between a land speed and a swim speed whenever they want.
That would work the best, I think.
Fishy-looking merchants who can manipulate water. Flavor their land speed as a wave that pushes them around or something. I don't know... Or else let them slither along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MechaPilot
1) Does anyone have a suggestion for their racial power?
I would suggest something psychic. be it unearthly beauty, a enchanting song, ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MechaPilot
2) What should a mermaid's land speed be?
how about on land: always prone? (there are already crawling rules in the PHB)
I had considered the song or beauty as a racial power, but i was concerned it might blur the line between merfolk and sirens. I don't personally have a problem with it (as there are myths of sailors who drowned after diving in after a mermaid), but creatively i was trying to come up with something that didn't overlap. I do like this idea though, so a bit of overlap could be ok.
Also, i din't see that there were crawl rules in the PHB. Those will work perfectly fine. Thank you.
@Siberys: Thank you for your suggestions. I personally prefer the more traditional appearance for merfolk; but your suggestions about being able to slither, or slide spaces on a gush of water, were very good.
The slither effect might make them similar to the Nagas in WoW (which is a direction I hadn't considered). I am leaning toward the crawling as a first instinct, but the slither is getting serious consideration.
The sliding squares on a gout of water was a novel inspiration. I have decided not to go that route, eventhough I think it is visually and thematically very cool. My reason for this is purely mechanical. I do not want to allocate the merfolk's racial ability to let them walk on land. Landborn races can traverse water with just a skill check, i would prefer not to punish the waterborn races with the consumption of an ability for the same purpose.
I'd still suggest a "shape water" type ability. Very thematic, IMO.
I honestly never really understood this school of thought when it comes to merfolk. Why does being half fish automatically suggest that one should be capable of manipulating water? I don't expect flying races to be able to manipulate the wind or terrestrial races to be able to manipulate the earth. Furthermore, even though this water manipulation is often suggested for merfolk, I can't say I've ever seen such an ability in any merfolk interpretation I've seen in classical myth, literature, pop culture, etc. (That is, of course, excluding water gods that happen to be shaped like merfolk, as opposed to actually being one...)
I honestly never really understood this school of thought when it comes to merfolk. Why does being half fish automatically suggest that one should be capable of manipulating water? I don't expect flying races to be able to manipulate the wind or terrestrial races to be able to manipulate the earth. Furthermore, even though this water manipulation is often suggested for merfolk, I can't say I've ever seen such an ability in any merfolk interpretation I've seen in classical myth, literature, pop culture, etc. (That is, of course, excluding water gods that happen to be shaped like merfolk, as opposed to actually being one...)
I think the notion is that merfolk, as fey beings (which they likely are), have some kind of communion with or ability to command the waters. Depending on the theme one is going for, certain verieties of this power could work very well.
I think the notion is that merfolk, as fey beings (which they likely are), have some kind of communion with or ability to command the waters. Depending on the theme one is going for, certain verieties of this power could work very well.
Since when have Merfolk ever been fey?
I really have never come across this notion anywhere before. Where are people getting this stuff?
Not that it matters. Controlling water is just cool. You need no other reason. AND if we work with the line of thought used in Magic, it makes a great deal of sense;
Charismatic + Great trade network = Merchant; this introduces the need to manipulate the waterways, hence water manipulation.
The original myths? From what I know of them (admittedly quite limited) they seem quite fey.
Not that it matters. Controlling water is just cool. You need no other reason. AND if we work with the line of thought used in Magic, it makes a great deal of sense;
Charismatic + Great trade network = Merchant; this introduces the need to manipulate the waterways, hence water manipulation.
Agreed. That is a solid line of reasoning for building the race that way.
Also, merfolk are totally fey. They're so fey their men run hair salons. But seriously, they have always been fey creatures. They are said in the tales of old to be untamed like the oceans. Their love is as fickle as the whims of the seas, and they often blissfully drag men to their dooms; unware their landborne suitors can't breathe beneath the waves. This smacks of the fey. Like the occasionally deadly pranks of the fey tricksters.
I don't think trickiness has anything at all to do with being fey. I mean, Halflings aren't fey, are they? And Eladrin and Elves don't seem particularly trickster-like to me...
"Fey" to me has always implies magical-ness of some kind, like fairies or gnomes or leprechauns, and I don't think I've ever seen Merfolk represented as magical creatures. Freaky creatures, yes, but that's not the same thing. I dunno, maybe it's just because the primary example that comes to mind when I think of mermaids is always Disney...
I had considered the song or beauty as a racial power, but i was concerned it might blur the line between merfolk and sirens.
line? what line? reading the articla about them in wikipedia's, I'dd say you got Sirens (half-brid temptresses) and mermaids (half-fish temptresses)
Since when have Merfolk ever been fey?
Depends on your definition of fey. They are creatures of folklore and mythology, so I would put them in the same category of satyrs, ...
I'm really just not seeing it here.
I don't think trickiness has anything at all to do with being fey. I mean, Halflings aren't fey, are they? And Eladrin and Elves don't seem particularly trickster-like to me...
"Fey" to me has always implies magical-ness of some kind, like fairies or gnomes or leprechauns, and I don't think I've ever seen Merfolk represented as magical creatures. Freaky creatures, yes, but that's not the same thing. I dunno, maybe it's just because the primary example that comes to mind when I think of mermaids is always Disney...
It's not about trickiness. The deadly prankster was an example of a form of behaviour. Namely, thier lack of awareness of the fragility of the human condition. In the same way that a trickster fey might play a joke on a human that turns deadly, a mermaid might drag a sailor beneath the seas for frolicking or romance and be surprised to find he's suddenly drowned.
@Qube: Thank you for the link. The last i'd heard, sirens were not bird-like; but a mythology class at a public school isn't always the best place to learn about those things. Given this new info, a song seems the perfect power to give them. The only question now is the effect of the song.
It's simple work that it will have the charm keyword, but i'm at an impasse as to whether the song will:
1)mezmerize someone so that they simply remain still...
Or 2)cause the target to approach the merfolk...
Or 3) function as number 1, with number 2 available as a racial feat to enhance the power.
What i'm thinking of playtesting is this:
Range: 5 squares
Attack: Charisma vs Will defense
Hit: Target is stunned until the end of your next turn.
Effect: After the end of your next turn, the target is dazed (save ends).
I still don't know how often it should be doable. It seems like a once per encounter thing right now. And that makes sense. Enemies aren't likely to be caught up in it more than once per encounter if they've learned to fear it already. Any input would be appreciated.
I'm currently considering diplomacy and nature, but I am very open to suggestions on this.
If anyone has any idead what skill bonuses fit merfolk, I would like to hear your ideas.
I'm currently considering diplomacy and nature, but I am very open to suggestions on this.
This is part of the problem. I can't think of a single set of skill bonuses that everybody would agree on.
Some people view mermaids more like fey or creatures of nature that would favor classes like Druid or Shaman, so skills like Nature.
Some people think that their inherently magical nature and relative solitude pushes them more into Wizard or Artificer territory, so skills like Arcana and History.
Some people suggest such a race must obviously have divine ties simply to exist, citing water gods such as Poseidon, and must therefore favor classes such as Cleric or Invoker, so skills like Religion.
Some people prefer they be friendlier and more in contact with the surface world as merchants or even pirates favoring classes such as Bard or Rogue, so skills like Diplomacy and Thievery.
The myriad of flavors of Merfolk out there was part of the reason I gave up my attempt at the race, that and the fact that an aquatic race with a racial swim speed is almost impossible to balance because it's entirely dependent on campaign setting and could thus end insanely useful or insanely useless in a very bipolar way...
EDIT: Also, stunning as a racial power is ridiculous powerful. That's a terrible idea.
As far as racial traits, here are some suggestions; aquatic subtype, Land and swim speed of 6 (slithering; it's just easier to handle it this way), and then some attack based on either water-shaping or mesmerising, based on either player choice (like drow) or determined by setting. The charm attack you're suggesting would actually fit well, and either immobilizing or dazing plus some psychic damage. I'd still go with water shaping, but I think I've sufficiently covered why. :P Sprinkle on a few things like racial proficiencies and other minor bonuses and it'll be done.
Crimson_Concerto; The problem you're problem with merfolk is that you're trying to have it cover too many different things. Choose one archetpe and roll with it. I did up merfolk a while back (I've sadly lost the file since), and once I chose the river-merchant water-shaper route, it was a piece of cake. MechaPilot's chosen the waterborne enchantress archetype. It'll be a different implementation, but it's trying to cover a different "type" of merfolk, no?
Damn. Now I'm gonna have to re-write my merfolk race. Gee, thanks guys. :P
Crimson_Concerto; The problem you're problem with merfolk is that you're trying to have it cover too many different things. Choose one archetpe and roll with it.
Not at all. In fact, I'm trying specifically to avoid giving them any flavor at all such that they can be used for all of these concepts but none necessarily more favorably than the other. I'm trying to go for the "generic" Merfolk, if you will. :P
But right now I really am considering simply creating multiple Merfolk races...
This is part of the problem. I can't think of a single set of skill bonuses that everybody would agree on.
Some people view mermaids more like fey or creatures of nature that would favor classes like Druid or Shaman, so skills like Nature.
Some people think that their inherently magical nature and relative solitude pushes them more into Wizard or Artificer territory, so skills like Arcana and History.
Some people suggest such a race must obviously have divine ties simply to exist, citing water gods such as Poseidon, and must therefore favor classes such as Cleric or Invoker, so skills like Religion.
Some people prefer they be friendlier and more in contact with the surface world as merchants or even pirates favoring classes such as Bard or Rogue, so skills like Diplomacy and Thievery.
The myriad of flavors of Merfolk out there was part of the reason I gave up my attempt at the race, that and the fact that an aquatic race with a racial swim speed is almost impossible to balance because it's entirely dependent on campaign setting and could thus end insanely useful or insanely useless in a very bipolar way...
EDIT: Also, stunning as a racial power is ridiculous powerful. That's a terrible idea.
Merfolk can fit all those roles based on their class, but their racial skill bonuses should be based more on environment and culture. My frist impression was Nature and Perception.
I think Perception is fitting for most aquatic races as they need to be wary of danger from all sides (as opposed to land-dwelling races who don't need to worry about sharks descending from above).
For the second skill I am split between Nature and Diplomacy. As fey creatures, Nature is definitely fitting. On the other hand, Merfolk are the aquatic race that seems to have the most contact with land-dwellers; so Diplomacy could also fit the bill.
As for the usefulness of the swim speed, I'm not concerned. Frankly, your DM should prohibit the Merfolk race if the campaign will take place on land... or create a way around it if the DM wants to allow you to play that race in a land-based game.
On the subject of the racial power, I can see how stun could be a bit much. I made the first round stun to balance the power against racial powers that deal damage (like the dragonborn's brath weapon). I concede that it has yet to be playtested and may indeed be overpowered. I know when you said "terrible idea" you meant "terribly overpowered" so I'm not taking offense at that (though I did at first glance).
What is your opinion if the power were toned down to:
Effect: dazed until the end of your next turn, then dazed (save ends)?
Or...
If the power were changed to:
Burst: 3
Effect: All targets dazed until the end of your next turn.
Merfolk can fit all those roles based on their class, but their racial skill bonuses should be based more on environment and culture. My frist impression was Nature and Perception.
Environment maybe, but I still contend you won't get people to agree on a culture.
As for the usefulness of the swim speed, I'm not concerned. Frankly, your DM should prohibit the Merfolk race if the campaign will take place on land... or create a way around it if the DM wants to allow you to play that race in a land-based game.
This comment only serves to accent my problem. When I create a trace, at least, I make it to be useful in a generic way no matter what the setting of a campaign may be. Balance independent of specific campaign considerations, if you will. The only way to do that is to give them a land speed or a way to make a way for them to switch between a land speed and swim speed. After that, it's a matter of making sure their other features are still useful outside of an aquatic environment while still exhibiting a distinctly aquatic flavor and flair. That way, you can play an entire campaign never going underwater but still feeling like a Mermaid or Merman. This is more difficult than it sounds...
I know when you said "terrible idea" you meant "terribly overpowered" so I'm not taking offense at that (though I did at first glance).
Yes, that's what I meant. I'm sorry you took offense to it at first, I probably should have made that more clear.
What is your opinion if the power were toned down to:
Effect: dazed until the end of your next turn, then dazed (save ends)?
Or...
If the power were changed to:
Burst: 3
Effect: All targets dazed until the end of your next turn.
Unfortunately, I think that even dazing is too powerful an effect for a racial power. I mean, just think about everything that dazing does. Not only does it restrict opponents to a single actions but it also prevents him from flanking and makes him grant combat advantage. Any one of these would be considerable racial power all on its own, but all together it's too powerful. I mean, just look at the Drow's Darkfire, a perfectly reasonably powered racial power and it only makes the target grant combat advantage and prevents it from benefiting from concealment and invisibility for a turn. Dazing is even beyond that, and then you suggest that it be (save ends) or a blast 3? No, I don't think this can work. It just seems much too powerful.
Besides, I can definitely see the the flavor of the ability you're looking for being used to produce a much more interesting and unique effect than a simple status ailment. For example, what if it's a charm effect that beckons a target to you or away from you, the end result being that it allows you to slide the target 2 squares or something? I dunno, just an alternate idea.
What I've personally been using for a racial power is an at-will that would allow it to be used outside of purely sea-based games; a polymorph effect that switches Swim 6 for a land speed of 6 as a minor action, lasts until dismissed again as a minor action, and does not lose its effect when the character uses another polymorph effect.
Don't get me wrong. I do like the idea of being able to draw a foe to the mermaid with her song. It is mythically and thematically on point. My only problem with it is "what if you're a character role/type that doesn't like to get in close with your foes?". For those characters, I think a song that gives them a repreive from being attacked by that foe is a lot more useful.
I suppose we could take the drow option and give the character a choice of 2 powers. One that draws and one that is defensive.
For both of them I'm assuming Charisma vs Will. A range of about 5 seems right. It's a song that will be used in a fight, so i don't think it should be viable beyond 30ft.
For the drawing effect, I'd say pull the target 2 squares. There could be a feat that enhances this to a number of squares equal to the character's Charisma bonus.
For the defensive song, I don't know. I think either a prohibition on attacking the character until the end of the merfolk's next turn... Or a penalty to the target's attacks until the end of the merfolk's next turn. Off the top of my head I'd go with a -2 penalty, as if the target were marked.
Edit: I didn't see the part of your post about being able to slide the target away with the song. Sorry.
Daze?
A prohibiton agaist offensive actions?
And how long is appropraite?
Till the end of your next turn?
Till the end of the target's next turn?
Save ends?
Any suggestions would be both helpful and appreciated.
If stun is too powerful an impediment for a mezmerising ability, what would be appropriate?
Daze?
A prohibiton agaist offensive actions?
And how long is appropraite?
Till the end of your next turn?
Till the end of the target's next turn?
Save ends?
Any suggestions would be both helpful and appreciated.
No suggestions?