4E Modern - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

4E Modern

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
timejockey
Jan 04, 2011 9:08:31 I've been working on a 4E take on d20 Modern for the last few weeks, and I thought I would post the latest version to see what people think. While it does have elements of the old version, it ended up being more of a mix of D&D Essentials and the current version of Gamma World. I tried to keep things simple, but I also tried to add a little more customization than traditional 4E. Mind you think is still a work in progress, as you will see from the unfinished sections on skills, feats, and equipment. And I am still tweaking some elements it, but opinions and suggestions would be appreciated. Here are the basics of what I am trying:

-You pick one core class that corresponds to one of the 6 ability scores. This core class gives you a special ability, skill bonuses, and a small list of powers.
-You also pick a career, that determines what skills you are trained in, another special ability, and more power options.
-Like Gamma World, the powers are divided into Novice (at-wills), Utility, and Expert (mostly encounters, but a few dailies)
-At different points in your level progression, you may change careers and even your core class. If you focus on one career, you have a more narrow range of options but you have more powerful special abilities. If you change your career and core options, you have more diversity.
-20 levels as of now, but it would be easy to add levels up to 30 if you would like.
-I tried to give the non-combat classes powers that had utility in combat, but ones that were not always a direct attack.

www.scribd.com/doc/46261220/4EModern
#2
bone_naga
Jan 04, 2011 18:19:54 You might be interested in taking a look at some stuff that Dias Ex Machina is putting out (Amethyst, a mix of fantasy and technology, and in the works is Ultramodern 4 and Neurospasta which are strictly modern and sci-fi/cyberpunk).
#3
timejockey
Jan 04, 2011 18:24:55 I actually did look at them, and they just weren't my cup of tea. That was actually prompted me to do this. So does this look like it might work?
#4
SerenaDawn
Jan 05, 2011 4:50:42

-You pick one core class that corresponds to one of the 6 ability scores. This core class gives you a special ability, skill bonuses, and a small list of powers.
-You also pick a career, that determines what skills you are trained in, another special ability, and more power options.

Well, Bone_naga mentions Amethyst, but also Ultramodern4, which you might not have any experience with. I say that because Ultramodern4 does EXACTLY what you mention here. With U4, the "CORE CLASS" is called a ladder, and the "CAREER" is called a class. Everything else is basically verbatim.

Just sayin'

#5
timejockey
Jan 05, 2011 6:15:26 I am familiar with it, and as mentioned above, not my cup of tea. I was trying to do something more akin to the simpler creation ideas used in Gamma World or in Essentials. I know that is not for everyone, and I think Amethyst and Ultramodern4 will be great for those people. But I actually was moving away from 4E before GW and Essentials because the character creation process just was getting too cumbersome. I bought Amethyst and gave it a look, and it was well done but just didn't fit my needs and there is a near perfect used copy of it on Amazon if anyone else wants to look at it. I think the theme idea from Dark Sun and the ladder system are interesting ideas and add some much needed variety, but it also adds more details and chunkiness to things. If you have a tool like the character creator, then that is not a problem. But the ladders actually add more abilities and details to a complicated character creation process, especially at high levels. Plus you are still locked into your same career for your entire character, and the whole "multiclass feat" thing just never worked for me. With this I am trying to add back the ability to change the direction of your character as you advance. Plus I wanted to make something that could be easily adapted and changed to suit whatever you want to play. If you wanted to use it for a fantasy campaign, you can swap out the core classes for races and modify the careers into something more fantasy based. I don't think what I have here is perfect by any means, but if there are people like me out there who prefer a simpler way of making up characters I hope they take a look and let me know what they think.
#6
SerenaDawn
Jan 05, 2011 13:59:20 Well, actually, the ladder system only adds features that mostly only come into play once. There will be an article for COMBAT ADVANTAGE soon that will explain this. The features alter the class so they only come into play if you want them to, like changing your primary attack attribute or allowing you to select another utility power instead of an attack power. As for other abilities, it doesn't offer more than the average D&D character at the same level.

Recent additions to the U4 system allow you to meld it back into traditional D&D, especially if you want to make a non-magical fantasy setting. Also, the next Amethyst book offers Essentials-based classes, adapted from the original book

There's also a second errata coming out soon that updates Amethyst to the current D&D setup (matching to THEIR errata).
#7
timejockey
Jan 05, 2011 14:10:40 Actually the one that looks really neat is is e20 System Evolved.
e20system.com/index.html
I think thats the modern system that people should be looking into. Lots of depth for character creation so you can tweak your character to be exactly what you want it to be. None of the limitations of being crammed into one class for your entire career. Plus it seems to be a neat mix of d20 Modern, Star Wars Saga (it is written by one of the writers for that game), and 4E. I think people should check that out if they were a fan of d20 Modern and see what they think.

Actually I really wish WOTC would go ahead and make a modern system of their own. It would be bad for the few people out there risking the GSL, but I think it would be good for gamers.
#8
timejockey
Jan 07, 2011 6:46:56 Updated file with some changes, fixes, and corrections.
www.scribd.com/doc/46261220/4EModern
#9
timejockey
Jan 08, 2011 7:21:07 We did our first session with the new rules last night, and it seemed to work pretty well. Character creation was pretty simple, taking no more than 10-15 minutes. Characters started at 3rd level and we had a good mix of the different core classes and careers: strong/soldier, smart/techie, fast/gunslinger, charismatic/investigator, and a unique class I made up for the campaign called a Neuromancer that used science to simulate psionics. Another player was using another modern system, and he was frustrated by how cumbersome it ended up being so he is making a fast/infiltrator for next week. Everything seems to work pretty well so far, and some powers really surprised me by how useful they ended up being in ways I didn't think of. One thing that was noted though was at 3rd level the characters needed some more options in combat because they only had a few powers. So I changed it so that characters gain their first Career Expert power at 3rd level, which is more in line with standard D&D. I also tweaked a few powers after seeing them in play, but so far so good.
Here is the file with the updates:
www.scribd.com/doc/46261220/4EModern
#10
timejockey
Jan 17, 2011 17:10:10 Another update just in case people here are still looking in on this. Lots of minor changes and a lot more added to the equipment section.

www.scribd.com/doc/46261220/4EModern
#11
timejockey
Jan 24, 2011 6:54:22 One last revision, near final copy of this. This version has lots of corrections, a few more careers, equipment section is done, and has vehicle rules derived from the ones originally presented in the Adventurer's Vault book.

www.scribd.com/doc/46261220/4EModern
#12
bone_naga
Jan 25, 2011 19:13:41 The burst 2 for explosives is a bit much, especially for just 1 lb. The damage seems a bit high also in comparison to the grenades. It doesn't look like there's any reason to use grenades over explosives. There's a reason people in real life don't run around throwing blocks of C4 at each other instead of grenades.

I don't understand your description of moldable explosives. You say they are more versatile so the user is not restricted to a certain area for the explosion. What does that mean? I didn't notice any restriction mentioned in the general explosives section.

You did manage to avoid the common trap of making firearms do ridiculous amounts of damage, which is good.

I don't think having a chainsaw injure the wielder on a 1 is necessary. The higher damage is already offset by the lack of proficiency bonus. There are plenty of threads about the problems with critical fumble type mechanics and it seems very arbitrary to apply it only to a single weapon.

I haven't gotten through the classes/powers but the little I've read through so far is better than what I expected.
#13
timejockey
Jan 26, 2011 6:11:48 A 10 foot radius danger zone for explosives seems pretty reasonable. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be within 10 feet of a stick of dynamite or a brick of C-4 when it goes off.

The benefit for moldable explosives is that you can change the area effect into a blast or a wall instead of a burst. Which reflects the nature of C-4 and Semtex as versatile demolition tools.

For firearms, I tried to keep it in line with the standard damages for 4E weapons. But I also wanted to make some things a little beefier than other systems I've seen where they seem to go too low with firearms.

Agreed with the chainsaw in retrospect. Its changed now.

The classes seem to work very well in play so far for our campaign we are running. Balanced and easy to make. We had tried some other modern 4E options out there and they were either poorly balanced or character creation was a headache. I aimed for something closer to Gamma World, which is a pretty simple and elegant design. I hope Wizards looks towards that model for future products.
#14
bone_naga
Jan 26, 2011 20:58:39 I'm just speaking from experience. I've been within about 10 feet of a block of C4 (which is actually 1.25 pounds but 1lb increments are simpler for game purposes) going off. But again, the bulk explosives are just flat out better than grenades. In reality, bulk explosives are great for their intended purpose, demolition, but suck when it comes to things like taking out a formation of guys (well, unless you get a lot of it), which is why we have grenades. Right now there's really no differentiation between the two and the explosives are more versatile. Just a recommendation, but I would bring the blast radius down a notch and let the grenades be good for something too.
#15
timejockey
Jan 26, 2011 21:04:48 What would you suggest? Maybe down to Blast 1? And just for the moldable? Scratch-built represents something like a pipe bomb, and dynamite is obvious.
#16
bone_naga
Jan 28, 2011 17:54:29
What would you suggest? Maybe down to Blast 1? And just for the moldable? Scratch-built represents something like a pipe bomb, and dynamite is obvious.

I would suggest Burst 1 for all the bulk explosives. Being able to change moldable to blast 3 like you currently have set up is fine. Now for pipe bombs having a higher burst is fine since at that point you are essentially making an improvised grenade. I must have missed whatever rules you had in there for that.
#17
mysticbelmont
Jan 28, 2011 21:38:23 Is DEM coming out with Ultramodern this year?
#18
timejockey
Jan 29, 2011 6:39:36 Ok, changed in the latest revision. There are rules under the Science skill for making scratch-built explosives.
#19
iqwinn
Jan 29, 2011 22:26:44 robotchicken.wikia.com/wiki/RPG_Reversal
#20
SerenaDawn
Feb 12, 2011 13:15:02
Is DEM coming out with Ultramodern this year?

It better be.

We decided recently that it will be the next book after the release of Amethyst Evolution. I think two years of playtesting is good enough.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 timejockey Jan 04, 2011 9:08:31	I've been working on a 4E take on d20 Modern for the last few weeks, and I thought I would post the latest version to see what people think. While it does have elements of the old version, it ended up being more of a mix of D&D Essentials and the current version of Gamma World. I tried to keep things simple, but I also tried to add a little more customization than traditional 4E. Mind you think is still a work in progress, as you will see from the unfinished sections on skills, feats, and equipment. And I am still tweaking some elements it, but opinions and suggestions would be appreciated. Here are the basics of what I am trying: -You pick one core class that corresponds to one of the 6 ability scores. This core class gives you a special ability, skill bonuses, and a small list of powers. -You also pick a career, that determines what skills you are trained in, another special ability, and more power options. -Like Gamma World, the powers are divided into Novice (at-wills), Utility, and Expert (mostly encounters, but a few dailies) -At different points in your level progression, you may change careers and even your core class. If you focus on one career, you have a more narrow range of options but you have more powerful special abilities. If you change your career and core options, you have more diversity. -20 levels as of now, but it would be easy to add levels up to 30 if you would like. -I tried to give the non-combat classes powers that had utility in combat, but ones that were not always a direct attack. www.scribd.com/doc/46261220/4EModern
#2 bone_naga Jan 04, 2011 18:19:54	You might be interested in taking a look at some stuff that Dias Ex Machina is putting out (Amethyst, a mix of fantasy and technology, and in the works is Ultramodern 4 and Neurospasta which are strictly modern and sci-fi/cyberpunk).
#3 timejockey Jan 04, 2011 18:24:55	I actually did look at them, and they just weren't my cup of tea. That was actually prompted me to do this. So does this look like it might work?
#4 SerenaDawn Jan 05, 2011 4:50:42	-You pick one core class that corresponds to one of the 6 ability scores. This core class gives you a special ability, skill bonuses, and a small list of powers. -You also pick a career, that determines what skills you are trained in, another special ability, and more power options. Well, Bone_naga mentions Amethyst, but also Ultramodern4, which you might not have any experience with. I say that because Ultramodern4 does EXACTLY what you mention here. With U4, the "CORE CLASS" is called a ladder, and the "CAREER" is called a class. Everything else is basically verbatim. Just sayin'
#5 timejockey Jan 05, 2011 6:15:26	I am familiar with it, and as mentioned above, not my cup of tea. I was trying to do something more akin to the simpler creation ideas used in Gamma World or in Essentials. I know that is not for everyone, and I think Amethyst and Ultramodern4 will be great for those people. But I actually was moving away from 4E before GW and Essentials because the character creation process just was getting too cumbersome. I bought Amethyst and gave it a look, and it was well done but just didn't fit my needs and there is a near perfect used copy of it on Amazon if anyone else wants to look at it. I think the theme idea from Dark Sun and the ladder system are interesting ideas and add some much needed variety, but it also adds more details and chunkiness to things. If you have a tool like the character creator, then that is not a problem. But the ladders actually add more abilities and details to a complicated character creation process, especially at high levels. Plus you are still locked into your same career for your entire character, and the whole "multiclass feat" thing just never worked for me. With this I am trying to add back the ability to change the direction of your character as you advance. Plus I wanted to make something that could be easily adapted and changed to suit whatever you want to play. If you wanted to use it for a fantasy campaign, you can swap out the core classes for races and modify the careers into something more fantasy based. I don't think what I have here is perfect by any means, but if there are people like me out there who prefer a simpler way of making up characters I hope they take a look and let me know what they think.
#6 SerenaDawn Jan 05, 2011 13:59:20	Well, actually, the ladder system only adds features that mostly only come into play once. There will be an article for COMBAT ADVANTAGE soon that will explain this. The features alter the class so they only come into play if you want them to, like changing your primary attack attribute or allowing you to select another utility power instead of an attack power. As for other abilities, it doesn't offer more than the average D&D character at the same level. Recent additions to the U4 system allow you to meld it back into traditional D&D, especially if you want to make a non-magical fantasy setting. Also, the next Amethyst book offers Essentials-based classes, adapted from the original book There's also a second errata coming out soon that updates Amethyst to the current D&D setup (matching to THEIR errata).
#7 timejockey Jan 05, 2011 14:10:40	Actually the one that looks really neat is is e20 System Evolved. e20system.com/index.html I think thats the modern system that people should be looking into. Lots of depth for character creation so you can tweak your character to be exactly what you want it to be. None of the limitations of being crammed into one class for your entire career. Plus it seems to be a neat mix of d20 Modern, Star Wars Saga (it is written by one of the writers for that game), and 4E. I think people should check that out if they were a fan of d20 Modern and see what they think. Actually I really wish WOTC would go ahead and make a modern system of their own. It would be bad for the few people out there risking the GSL, but I think it would be good for gamers.
#8 timejockey Jan 07, 2011 6:46:56	Updated file with some changes, fixes, and corrections. www.scribd.com/doc/46261220/4EModern
#9 timejockey Jan 08, 2011 7:21:07	We did our first session with the new rules last night, and it seemed to work pretty well. Character creation was pretty simple, taking no more than 10-15 minutes. Characters started at 3rd level and we had a good mix of the different core classes and careers: strong/soldier, smart/techie, fast/gunslinger, charismatic/investigator, and a unique class I made up for the campaign called a Neuromancer that used science to simulate psionics. Another player was using another modern system, and he was frustrated by how cumbersome it ended up being so he is making a fast/infiltrator for next week. Everything seems to work pretty well so far, and some powers really surprised me by how useful they ended up being in ways I didn't think of. One thing that was noted though was at 3rd level the characters needed some more options in combat because they only had a few powers. So I changed it so that characters gain their first Career Expert power at 3rd level, which is more in line with standard D&D. I also tweaked a few powers after seeing them in play, but so far so good. Here is the file with the updates: www.scribd.com/doc/46261220/4EModern
#10 timejockey Jan 17, 2011 17:10:10	Another update just in case people here are still looking in on this. Lots of minor changes and a lot more added to the equipment section. www.scribd.com/doc/46261220/4EModern
#11 timejockey Jan 24, 2011 6:54:22	One last revision, near final copy of this. This version has lots of corrections, a few more careers, equipment section is done, and has vehicle rules derived from the ones originally presented in the Adventurer's Vault book. www.scribd.com/doc/46261220/4EModern
#12 bone_naga Jan 25, 2011 19:13:41	The burst 2 for explosives is a bit much, especially for just 1 lb. The damage seems a bit high also in comparison to the grenades. It doesn't look like there's any reason to use grenades over explosives. There's a reason people in real life don't run around throwing blocks of C4 at each other instead of grenades. I don't understand your description of moldable explosives. You say they are more versatile so the user is not restricted to a certain area for the explosion. What does that mean? I didn't notice any restriction mentioned in the general explosives section. You did manage to avoid the common trap of making firearms do ridiculous amounts of damage, which is good. I don't think having a chainsaw injure the wielder on a 1 is necessary. The higher damage is already offset by the lack of proficiency bonus. There are plenty of threads about the problems with critical fumble type mechanics and it seems very arbitrary to apply it only to a single weapon. I haven't gotten through the classes/powers but the little I've read through so far is better than what I expected.
#13 timejockey Jan 26, 2011 6:11:48	A 10 foot radius danger zone for explosives seems pretty reasonable. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be within 10 feet of a stick of dynamite or a brick of C-4 when it goes off. The benefit for moldable explosives is that you can change the area effect into a blast or a wall instead of a burst. Which reflects the nature of C-4 and Semtex as versatile demolition tools. For firearms, I tried to keep it in line with the standard damages for 4E weapons. But I also wanted to make some things a little beefier than other systems I've seen where they seem to go too low with firearms. Agreed with the chainsaw in retrospect. Its changed now. The classes seem to work very well in play so far for our campaign we are running. Balanced and easy to make. We had tried some other modern 4E options out there and they were either poorly balanced or character creation was a headache. I aimed for something closer to Gamma World, which is a pretty simple and elegant design. I hope Wizards looks towards that model for future products.
#14 bone_naga Jan 26, 2011 20:58:39	I'm just speaking from experience. I've been within about 10 feet of a block of C4 (which is actually 1.25 pounds but 1lb increments are simpler for game purposes) going off. But again, the bulk explosives are just flat out better than grenades. In reality, bulk explosives are great for their intended purpose, demolition, but suck when it comes to things like taking out a formation of guys (well, unless you get a lot of it), which is why we have grenades. Right now there's really no differentiation between the two and the explosives are more versatile. Just a recommendation, but I would bring the blast radius down a notch and let the grenades be good for something too.
#15 timejockey Jan 26, 2011 21:04:48	What would you suggest? Maybe down to Blast 1? And just for the moldable? Scratch-built represents something like a pipe bomb, and dynamite is obvious.
#16 bone_naga Jan 28, 2011 17:54:29	What would you suggest? Maybe down to Blast 1? And just for the moldable? Scratch-built represents something like a pipe bomb, and dynamite is obvious. I would suggest Burst 1 for all the bulk explosives. Being able to change moldable to blast 3 like you currently have set up is fine. Now for pipe bombs having a higher burst is fine since at that point you are essentially making an improvised grenade. I must have missed whatever rules you had in there for that.
#17 mysticbelmont Jan 28, 2011 21:38:23	Is DEM coming out with Ultramodern this year?
#18 timejockey Jan 29, 2011 6:39:36	Ok, changed in the latest revision. There are rules under the Science skill for making scratch-built explosives.
#19 iqwinn Jan 29, 2011 22:26:44	robotchicken.wikia.com/wiki/RPG_Reversal
#20 SerenaDawn Feb 12, 2011 13:15:02	Is DEM coming out with Ultramodern this year? It better be. We decided recently that it will be the next book after the release of Amethyst Evolution. I think two years of playtesting is good enough.