Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 fireinthedust Nov 27, 2008 12:48:43	So here's the thread for Homebrew powers, classes, races, and things that would generally work in a Planeswalkers setting. PEACH if you could? Ideas for what could be done if wotc did put out a magic setting, and things already in 4e that could work for it, are also welcome.
#2 fireinthedust Nov 27, 2008 19:56:14	In the discussion about Colours and Powers I had with (for example) supermaus, there was some talk about how to do Planeswalkers and Color-based powers in 4e. One thing that came up was that Planeswalkers could be like the FR Spellscars: characters have the trait (like the scar) and if they want to get powers or abilities from it then they take a Feat (Color Mage initiate, or Planeswalker initiate). This would let a Barbarian Leonin take powers from Green while still being a barbarian, for example. Naturally they would not be the Uber Planeswalkers like Urza until they're Epic level (and as my current campaign is still Heroic, I'm not sure how to homebrew Epic yet :D ). The PC planeswalker would be simply someone who can move between planes and doesn't age; otherwise they're a normal example of whatever race/class PC they'd be. Here's my first attempt: (feat) Planeswalker Initiate: Your character has the spark of a Planeswalker in them, and it has shown itself. When they rest, and after concentrating intensely for 10 minutes, they and up to (party number?) others may move from one Plane to another. They may not "walk the planes" this way until they have rested for 10 hours (minus one hour per Con modifier). They may use magic items requiring the user be a Planeswalker. They do not age naturally any more. Colors: As with Alignment, every creature must have a color (excepting artifacts, which may be unaligned, and some other exceptions). I'm thinking that there could be... well, lists of Powers for each color that members of each Role could tap into based on color. Granted, some characters may be multi-color, which does complicate things (perhaps an additional feat per color?)
#3 aluman Nov 27, 2008 21:26:31	In the discussion about Colours and Powers I had with (for example) supermaus, there was some talk about how to do Planeswalkers and Color-based powers in 4e. There are a couple of ways of handling this, the most interesting (to me) is to assign each color a Power Source. ie. White - Martial/Divine Black - Martial/Arcane Red - Elemental/Arcane Blue - Elemental/Psionics Green - Primal/Divine Artifact - Any And then make a seperate class for each one (Iniaite of the Swamps et cetra) setting the powers like Spell Scared so that they are used using the best of the Mental/Physical attributes and have implements coresponding to their power sources. Option 2: Is easier. A generic all encompassing class, with the flavor adding the 'color' to it. (feat) Planeswalker Initiate: Your character has the spark of a Planeswalker in them, and it has shown itself. When they rest, and after concentrating intensely for 10 minutes, they and up to (party number?) others may move from one Plane to another. They may not "walk the planes" this way until they have rested for 10 hours (minus one hour per Con modifier). They may use magic items requiring the user be a Planeswalker. They do not age naturally any more. Planar travel is fairly big. But in a M:tG style campaign should be fairly mundane for practioners so it could work, just change the whole 10 hours to an extended rest. Colors: As with Alignment, every creature must have a color (excepting artifacts, which may be unaligned, and some other exceptions). I'm thinking that there could be... well, lists of Powers for each color that members of each Role could tap into based on color. Granted, some characters may be multi-color, which does complicate things (perhaps an additional feat per color?) Like I said, power sources are better way to line things up, unfortunately monsters don't have sources listed but its usually not hard to figure out.
#4 gnarfflinger Nov 27, 2008 22:38:56	I actually look at the colour wheel as a set of power sources which can be combined for various effects. Once the players have chosen their colour combination, then pick a role. From there, power design takes both into account. It wouldn't be easy to pick up and play, but for more advanced players, it could be pretty cool...
#5 supermaus Nov 28, 2008 3:27:03	If we are to divide Power sources up by color, I would say that Martial can be used by any color, because the source of the power is just training and a desire to succeed. That's not limited to any color or pair of colors. Ki, if it really is just power from within, should also not be limited by color, because what color you are determines what your inner energy can do (IMO). Divine: This could go one of two ways. Either every color OR White only. I think that with the current Divine classes, White-only makes sense, because White is the one color with a big emphasis on Healing that Divine classes share. On the other hand, every color has a reason to serve a deity, as long as that deity coincides with the colors goals. Avandra loves Freedom, and so does Red. Ioun values study, and so does Blue. Melora loves the natural world, and so does Green. Even Sehanine, with her "Go your own way" attitude, could be worshipped by a Black character. Arcane: Blue and Black. Arcane characters study very hard to learn mystical secrets that they can use to warp the world in their favor. I think it falls firmly in both camps. Primal: Green, potentially with some Red. the Barbarian in particular blurs the line, because he seems to be powered by his own emotions more than by nature. Psionic: If Psionic powers occur naturally in a person and cannot be learned by someone who isn't born with it, then I would argue that Psionic is all colors. Like Martial, this character is using his personal talents, and not drawing on any particular color. If you must train and study quite a bit to learn to use your brain power, then once again I would vote Blue and Black. Elemental: Red and Green. If the flavor of the class says that you have to study and use smartitude, then we will just have to reflavor that class. :p Shadow: Not much is known about Shadow, except that the Illusionist and Necromancer are both speculated Shadow classes. So, with 8 sources, 3 of which can be used by any color (Martial, Ki, and assuming that Psionic characters are born that way), Each color gets one power source to call its own. White: Divine Blue: Arcane Black: Shadow Red: Elemental Green: Primal for Gnarfflingers suggestion, I think having each color be its own power source would be awesome, but pretty unwieldy. For instance, if you said you were Red and Green, would you be able to choose between red AND Green powers? Or would we make up a set of Red/Green powers? Or maybe you could choose to be Green, and take the "I'm also Red" feat to gain access to power swap feats? That might work. because I love referring to these articles, I will link to the final column in Mark Rosewaters series of columns that examine each pair of colors. Rakdos. It contains links to all the rest.
#6 aluman Nov 28, 2008 12:34:00	The only thing is, Arcane includes Warlocks (who are red/black in my opinion), and as far as I know the only color with psionic anything is Blue. I would switch Psionic and Arcane.
#7 supermaus Nov 28, 2008 13:49:28	Yeah, in magic, Psionic themed cards are blue. But if Psionic powers are a trait born into someone, then they can use those abilities to further the goals of whatever color they happen to agree with. Also, Arcane and Shadow seem to break down a little because Illusionist is totally Blue and Necromancers are totally black, while Wizards are totally blue and Warlocks are totally black. But rather than have the two colors share two power sources, I just split them up rather arbitrarily. And, if Psionic powers are something that you aren't born with, but have to study very carefully, then they don't really fit with Red anymore, and not quite White as much. Empath-like abilities could be very White flavored, and Green could view Brain Power as being natural (because the brain is a naturally occuring organ, right?), and Black is always on top of ways to get an edge. On the other hand, I'm probably just thinking too much about it. Let's just make up new power sources and crib notes from the existing ones as we see fit.
#8 aluman Nov 28, 2008 15:02:07	Yeah, in magic, Psionic themed cards are blue. But if Psionic powers are a trait born into someone, then they can use those abilities to further the goals of whatever color they happen to agree with. Also, Arcane and Shadow seem to break down a little because Illusionist is totally Blue and Necromancers are totally black, while Wizards are totally blue and Warlocks are totally black. But rather than have the two colors share two power sources, I just split them up rather arbitrarily. Despite the name I actually see the Infernal more Red then Black, and the Fey as Green for warlocks. And, if Psionic powers are something that you aren't born with, but have to study very carefully, then they don't really fit with Red anymore, and not quite White as much. Empath-like abilities could be very White flavored, and Green could view Brain Power as being natural (because the brain is a naturally occuring organ, right?), and Black is always on top of ways to get an edge. Well judging by the past psionics, despite it being something anyone can be born with, they tend to follow the flavor of blue magic cards (Blasts, Reading of Minds et cetra) more than something I could see associated with other colors.
#9 splarg Nov 28, 2008 17:38:11	From what I've seen with the past magic cards every colour has had its wizards and black has had clerics, green I think tended to have druids rather than clerics (makes sense with the whole nature theme of green) and I'm also pretty certain that blue and red have had clerics. Blue is definitely linked to mind magics (see the fuel for fire comics http://www.wizards.com/magic/multiverse/planeswalkers.aspx?x=mtg/multiverse/webcomics/main) Blue is also linked to the elements of air and water, to transmutations, and to artifacts (artificer class would most likely align itself most strongly with blue) There is no real need for a specific summoner class to represent planeswalkers either since a magic deck can easily be constructed with no summons at all. It might be best to start by ignoring the colour/power source combinations and instead focus on a planeswalker spark multiclass feat and powers for each of the 2 ability groups (i.e. str/dex/con and int/wis/cha) within each of the five colours.
#10 splarg Nov 29, 2008 22:44:06	I just went through the various 4e keywords and added them to the colours which I think they relate to the most. I'm not certain with all the keywords though. Black: Powers of death and decay, control over undead and demons. (fear, necrotic, poison, psychic) Blue: Powers of the mind and the elements of air and water. (charm, illusion, polymorph, psychic, sleep, teleportation) Green: Powers of nature both the plants and animals as well as the weather itself. (cold, healing, poison, polymorph) Red: Powers of rage and the elements of earth and fire. (fire, lightning) White: Powers of protection and healing. (healing, radiant) There is some overlap between the colours and the keywords and perhaps polymorph could also be placed in with the other three colours. I think if any colour was going to have powers with Reliable it would be white with its focus on order. I'm also not sure where to put Acid. The keywords of Conjuration, Stance, and Zone would likely be in all of them.
#11 fireinthedust Nov 29, 2008 23:17:46	Cleric: The way it's designed, Cleric is fairly clearly a White class. While there could be designs for a Leader that's keyed to another color, we're talking entirely different lists of powers and class abilities cut/pasted in for the other colors. Other classes I wouldn't separate too dramatically. Arcane casters can be any color, as White might have fireball-wielding mages alongside their clerics, Blue is all over arcane magic (and artifice), and Red has fireballs. Feylocks and green, yeah. Necromancers for Shadow are fairly obviously Black, but Illusion is a Blue thing, so we'll see how that goes. Suffice it to say I'd worry about cutting out most options out of hand. Martial can be anyone. Alignment: Color is hard because it's thematic as much as it is ideological. D&D isn't as strict, despite 4e build options, on alignment. For story purposes, Alignment should be separate from theme/faction. While shades of grey are nice, demons vs. PCs is fairly obvious regardless of color. Ergo, there could be Good or even Lawful Good Black casters, for instance. Take Grixis humans, who'd likely "show up as black" if color was detected for. I read the Alara book. It's sweet. The Sphinx's in Erathis look good; I also know where I'll be putting Warforged.
#12 supermaus Nov 30, 2008 3:38:33	Perhaps we (and by We I mean I) are making things too complicated. rather than divide up the power sources amongst the colors, we can get away with every power source going to every color and have the colors act as Alignments. Then, we can bring back spells like detect alignment and other "Color Hosers" from 3.5. I know, none of them is really good, and none are evil, but there will still be good guys and bad guys. Some people will still be evil, obviously, and others will still be good. Meanwhile, White and Red almost exemplify the Lawful/Chaotic battle (Though red doesn't have to do chaotic things, it just hates restrictions, so red players might actually be more group friendly than Chaotic characters from days of yore). So, if you let Flavor guide you, the majority of Primal characters will still be Green, but the difference is that a Power Source is how your character acquires power, while a Color represents how your character is most likely to want to USE that power. If you use your power of Nature to educate people, and you exemplify the ideal that anyone can do anything if they put their mind to it, then you may be a Blue Druid. I know, they would never print a Blue Druid on a Magic Card, but after my change of heart, I think we should let the D&Ders be whatever combo they want and not tell people how to play their character. Also, then we can just make up a few feats to let characters of the appropriate color choose from, and it will be easy and stupendous. For instance! Unpredictable attack Prerequisites: Must be Red Aligned Whenever you make an attack against a Blue Aligned creature, you deal 1d6 damage to it. If your attack was a Critical, add another 1d6. Shattering Touch Prerequisites: Must be Red Aligned You call upon Red mana to use Shattering Touch. Shattering Touch Passion, Fury, and sheer force of will give you the power to destroy whatever blocks your path. Daily Close Burst 1 Target: One object or construct in burst. Effect: Deal damage to the target equal to its HP. Negate Prerequisites: Blue Aligned, Trained in Arcana, Paragon Tier? You call upon Blue mana to use Negate Negate Masters of the arcane savor a delicious irony. Their study of deep and complex arcana leads to such a simple end: the ability to say merely yes or no. Daily Personal Immediate Action Trigger: You are hit by an Attack Spell. Effect: The attack doesn't occur, as if the creature that attacked you chose to do nothing with its action. Wing Snare Prerequisites: green Aligned You call upon Green mana to use Wing Snare. Wing Snare You are an extension of the Forest, stretching its limbs into the furthest reaches of the sky. Encounter Ranged 10 Target: One creature in range with a fly speed Attack: (Ability) +2 Vs. Reflex Hit: 1d6 + (Ability) Damage, the creature falls to the ground, and no longer has a fly speed. Increase the bonus to +4 and 2d6 + (Ability) damage at 11th level, and to +6 bonus and 3d6 + (Ability) damage at 21st level. Special: You choose the first time you acquire this power which Ability modifier you use when making attack and damage rolls with this power. This choice cannot be changed unless you retrain the feat and gain it again. That sort of thing.
#13 Qube Nov 30, 2008 8:33:58	Actually, I'm currently DMming a M:tG setting. The campaign started in 3.5e, with with the (low level) PCs finding the sylex and handing it over too Urza. After some time travel, they helped Urza with the phyrexian invasion (finally the camaign ended with the party (lvl 16) killing the Devouring Stroussos (used stats of the tarrasque) ). Now the campaign 'restarted' in 4th edition, with a group of adventures on Otaria (eventually going to battle Korona). Color for me is a substitute for alignment, and doesn't really give much bonusses. - Black embodies the principles of parasitism and amorality (though not necessarily immorality). - Blue embodies the concepts of logic and technology. - White embodies the principles of morality and order. - Green embodies the principles of instinct and interdependence. - Red embodies the principles of impulse and chaos. for example: fighter as - 'red' (example barbarian style), - 'green' (example high AC defender style), - 'blue' (example, MC tacklord style), - 'white' (ex. goody two shoes), - 'black' (ex. egocentric knight style). the same for wizard - 'red' (example area damager), - 'green' (example battlefield control: fog effects), - 'blue' (example ... most wizards?), - 'white' (ex. goody two shoes), - 'black' (ex. necromantic tendencies).
#14 supermaus Dec 07, 2008 22:52:44	Any other thoughts? I also like the 'color as Alignment' Idea, and I thought it might be nifty to incorporate that into certain mechanics, like Resist Good and Detect Alignment and that sort of thing.