NOTE
Shaper and Telepath have, at this point, been "completed" to the Alpha level. The threads for each of them can be found HERE (Shaper) and HERE (Telepath).
Goal: To create psionic classes that fit each of the class roles (Controller, Defender, Leader, Striker), while maintaining balance and psionic flavor. Much of these classes will be simple re-flavorings of existing classes (for example, Shaper = Wizard Re-flavor, plus alternate features).
Note: All powers have currently been revised. Heroic Tier is considered "Complete."
“With my body and mind as one, I will cleave your body in two!”
“Mind over Matter, they always say. Let me introduce you to the matter of my mind.”
“I need no physical weapons to defeat you. My mind is sharp enough to cut down even the strongest of foes.”
Note: Powers are currently being processed to Version 2. At-Will 1 to Utility 2 are updated
“It seems we are not of one mind on this matter. Don't worry, we will be soon.”
I like the concepts and the roles the different classe got. Has a lot of potential.
DRAW AGRESSION: I like the idea, but it's pretty strong, more so than the fighter's combat challange or the paladin's divine challenge. The fighter can mark multiple enemies, but only in melee, the paladin can mark at range, but only one enemy. I think it could work if you set it apart from the Wis mod, i.e. making the number of enemies you can mark with it dependant from some other things: 1/tier, or give a "pool" you can mark throughout the combat.... some new mechanic.
It should also give a minor benefit, like the available challenges do (Fighter-OA, Paladin-Dmg).
VIGOR: I'm not sure how this scales... seems like a big investment for a relatively minor benefit. Maybe make it an encounter power? Maybe it could work with the Psionic Focus Mechanic that was designed in some other Psionic thread.
I understand that you don't want to "salvage" or "steal" other peoples's ideas, but creativity is just knowing how to steal and adapt :D
As such, feel free to look up the psionic stuff I came up with, you might find things useful. If you want to implement things, you make a small Ideas contributed by: - remark at the end of your work, and you can use all you want of my stuff. ;)
CLAW STRIKE:
why "max two" in the attack line? Don't get it. Otherwise, seems ok.
Other powers seem ok.
I think you should figure out your builds before creating your powers, they have to support the builds. As is you could make it something like this...
Metamorphing Egoist: changes parts of his own body, is the utility-type build. Attacks with Con, secondary effect Wis.
Blade Egoist: Boosts own physcal abilites without changing, changes part of the enemies'. Is the damage-dealer-type build. Attacks with Str, secondary effects Wis.
Then you'd need another Con-based at-will power, though.
The psion threads (maybe it helps, after all *g*):
Angel_of_Clumsiness Wizard/Psion mod with Psicrystal rules:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1056601
Pyromancer999 Psion Thread. Maybe take a look at Psionic Focus Rules.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1057821
Looks good. You do want to accomplish something big :D
I really do miss psionics. It was my baby.
I like the concepts and the roles the different classe got. Has a lot of potential.
Thank you. I'm working on it. As I said in my first post, I really want a fully fleshed-out psionics system.
DRAW AGRESSION: I like the idea, but it's pretty strong, more so than the fighter's combat challange or the paladin's divine challenge. The fighter can mark multiple enemies, but only in melee, the paladin can mark at range, but only one enemy. I think it could work if you set it apart from the Wis mod, i.e. making the number of enemies you can mark with it dependant from some other things: 1/tier, or give a "pool" you can mark throughout the combat.... some new mechanic.
It should also give a minor benefit, like the available challenges do (Fighter-OA, Paladin-Dmg).
I agree completely. I have a new-and-improved (or perhaps just revised) version prepared.
That'd mean, Metemorphosis attacks are (mostly) at +2 bonus to attack rolls if they go vs. AC, and the implement does the rest. Could also be a nice fluff-gimmick to Egoists.
Hm... thinking that along, that's probably what would differentiate a Metamorphosis Egoist from a Blade Egoist... Con based attacks mostly Fort/Ref/Will and Atr goes vs. AC.
On builds: I'm not talking about the blurb that tells you what powers/feats/skills to choose. But those are based on mechanics worked into the powers. It's about making "meaningfull choices" at every level. You focus your character on two different styles, based on ability scores, or try to balance them out. But most players will lean in a certain direction, and the class powers should support them in their choice.
Also, if you plan to make powers with 3 different attack abilities (Str, Con and Wis), this will make it hard for a player to generate a character that isn't below the general power level of the party. The whole Lvl/Ability advancement system of 4E supports a focus on 2 Abilities, or on 1 Primary Ability and 2 secondary ones.
That's why all classes have either 2 different attack abilities with one corresponding secondary ability (Cleric, Warlord, Paladin,Ranger) Or 1 attack ability with 2 secondary abilities (rogue, fighter, warlord)
A thought on "Natural Attack"-Type egoist powers based on Con, or let's just say Metamorphosis Attacks. Although the attack bonus follows the racial attack power progression, it may be useful drop the bonus and give them an implement, so that they're on par with melee weapon attacks without needing them.
That'd mean, Metemorphosis attacks are (mostly) at +2 bonus to attack rolls if they go vs. AC, and the implement does the rest. Could also be a nice fluff-gimmick to Egoists.
Yeah, I'm planning on doing this at some point.
Implements seemed like a "waste" at first blush, but as I'm putting together more powers without weapons, it's becoming inevitable.
I'm thinking about establishing the Third-Eye (perhaps with a better name?) as the implement-of-choice for my psionics, and treating it like the holy-symbol implement (ie - you can gain the benefit without holding it in your hand).
As for builds, I gotcha now. I really needed to look at 3.5 and see what powers I could pull out of it before I could really define any build-paths for the class. Now that I've done that, powers are coming along much better, and the paths have really defined themselves.
If it weren't such a pain-in-the-ass, I'd post up the other powers I'm working on. I'll get to them sooner or later though - I plan on at least updating once I've "completed" the Heroic tier.
That's why all classes have either 2 different attack abilities with one corresponding secondary ability (Cleric, Warlord, Paladin,Ranger) Or 1 attack ability with 2 secondary abilities (rogue, fighter, warlord)
As it's looking now (and this is just powering-through, with the intent to go back and re-evaluate and organize everything once I've got a full list of powers to work with), the build options will be: Str-Primary, with Wis as a secondary, or Con-Primary, with Str as secondary, and the option to use some Wis powers.
Additionally, what do you think of the revised Class Feature powers from my previous post? Do they work better than the "current" versions?
So...
Martial powers are Exploits,
Divine powers are Prayers,
Arcane powers are Spells.
So... What should Psionic powers be called? I mean, it wouldn't be a -huge- issue... except they were just called "powers" before.
I'm leaning toward just leaving them called "powers" - no real reason to change it, in my mind.
Looks great so far, what seems to be the reasoning behind going to a more psionics 3.0 approach as opposed to the 3.5 approach? Look forward to seeing more.
Whaddaya mean? I'm confused on the 3.0 vs. 3.5 comment.
Additionally, for anyone else, Egoist is complete through level 10 (Heroic Tier). Take a look!
Maybe faculty? Vigor is a level 1 at-will egoist faculty? I like it better than cognition. Maybe leaving them "powers" would be best.
Part of it is that, with 4E's mechanics, there's no reason not to split them back out.
Another part is that, given the class roles, I want to split the Psion back out into its specialties. Psions that I've seen in 3.0 and 3.5 were always very distinct based on their discipline anyways, so it's not much of a stretch. Expect some slight overlap in concept (though not exact power) at least with utility powers for the classes.
And the Egoist-Psychic Warrior merger just makes sense to me, since the two often overlapped so much anyways.
Thanks.
I'll have a close look at the powers as soon as I can muster the time.
so far, I only did a quick look.
I don't know if giving 3 attack abiliteies (Str, Con, Wis) is such a good idea, it may severly limit the options of PC's going for one type of stat. You should at least have 2 options of meaningful powers at each lvl, and it looks like you have made 3 builds, and then only one has any options (Str), and the other two (wis, con) are stuck at each lvl without choices.
The powers themselves seem solid, but I'll have a close look at them. For now, none of them use a secondary ability score to create effects, and I think it would better balance things if they had one (but I already said so ;) )
The Aggresive Compulsion thing works, that's for sure. The only gripe I have is that it's a blend of features, not a new mechanic, and I think your psionic classes deserve that. *g*
I had an idea, don't know if it works in your class construction:
How about making a reverse challenge-type power? Say, burst 2 or 3, no marking (that'd be too strong). At the end of the target's turn, if it is NOT adjecent to you, it suffers dmg (equal to the one you were using).
That'd leave marking for the powers, which you are doing anyway, but maybe it'd need a better incorporation into the powers.
And I still think you should settle for either Str/Con as attack abilities with Wis secondary, or Wis as attack and Con/Str for secondary effects. But I'm reapeating myself
2) Since it's not really a word per se, and you probably want to use older names, I'd rename empathic word to telempathic projection.
I haven't looked at these too closely, since I don't want to be unduly influenced by them for my inevitable psionics conversion, but what I've skimmed looks good.
First: Great Progress. It's coming to shape.
Thanks! Always glad to get feedback.
I'll have a close look at the powers as soon as I can muster the time.
so far, I only did a quick look.
That's fine, it's getting a bit daunting. To be honest, I've been lazy with going through and revising the egoist powers (they all need a good, long second look), since I've been working on telepath (it is complete-through-10 as well; well, minus a few powers that I realized had the exact same effect - ie. "target is blind" and "you and all allies are invisible" until the end of your next turn. Same mechanical effect, so I didn't really want -both- of them).
I don't know if giving 3 attack abiliteies (Str, Con, Wis) is such a good idea, it may severly limit the options of PC's going for one type of stat. You should at least have 2 options of meaningful powers at each lvl, and it looks like you have made 3 builds, and then only one has any options (Str), and the other two (wis, con) are stuck at each lvl without choices.
That's my major problem with them - I had / have the design theory all wrong. Telepath is going -much- better, mostly because I'm sticking much more rigidly to my example powers from the core classes.
As I go through and revise Egoist, I want to break it back down along 2 tracks (the two builds listed), with Wis as a secondary for both. Dropping a few of the existing powers to replace them with more metamorph powers won't really be a problem, but I do need some ideas for alternate metamorph abilities. I want to be able to put -some- variety in there, but for some reason I'm just hitting a wall on it (hence moving to telepath).
The powers themselves seem solid, but I'll have a close look at them. For now, none of them use a secondary ability score to create effects, and I think it would better balance things if they had one (but I already said so ;) )
Yup.
The Aggresive Compulsion thing works, that's for sure. The only gripe I have is that it's a blend of features, not a new mechanic, and I think your psionic classes deserve that. *g*
I agree, but I'm not sure just what to do with it yet. I'm going to brainstorm later today, and just pull out a few more ideas - see what mechanics I can find that don't break the system too bad, but are -unique-.
I had an idea, don't know if it works in your class construction:
How about making a reverse challenge-type power? Say, burst 2 or 3, no marking (that'd be too strong). At the end of the target's turn, if it is NOT adjecent to you, it suffers dmg (equal to the one you were using).
That'd leave marking for the powers, which you are doing anyway, but maybe it'd need a better incorporation into the powers.
It's actually a pretty good framework. My only concern then would be whether they were effective enough as defenders.
And I still think you should settle for either Str/Con as attack abilities with Wis secondary, or Wis as attack and Con/Str for secondary effects. But I'm reapeating myself
You are! But it's helpful repetition, so I don't mind it.
Thanks for the feedback though. I'll be taking another stab at it later (and I'll update Telepath at the same time).
1) I'd suggest Psi powers be called sciences, disciplines, modes, or talents.
I really like "modes" and "talents." I'll have to try those on, and see how they "fit." Thanks!
2) Since it's not really a word per se, and you probably want to use older names, I'd rename empathic word to telempathic projection.
It was just plain ol' "Empathic Transfer" in the first draft, but when I'm looking at the existing leaders, I notice a theme in the naming. That said, since Artificer already breaks down that naming convention, I can probably change it again. Problem is, I think I've mined every existing 3.5 telepathy power name (at least low-level ones - I'm saving higher levels for Paragon and Epic tier still), including Empathic Transfer (level 1 at-will now), and Telempathic Projection (level 2 utility now). I'll look at what can be done about it though.
I haven't looked at these too closely, since I don't want to be unduly influenced by them for my inevitable psionics conversion, but what I've skimmed looks good.
Well then, first off, thanks. And second off, good luck! It's... quite strange, creating classes for 4th edition, but I think it actually helps to understand the system a bit more.
And hey, if you don't want to go through all the trouble, you could just use mine. :D
I really like "modes" and "talents." I'll have to try those on, and see how they "fit." Thanks!
I try. :D
It was just plain ol' "Empathic Transfer" in the first draft, but when I'm looking at the existing leaders, I notice a theme in the naming. That said, since Artificer already breaks down that naming convention, I can probably change it again. Problem is, I think I've mined every existing 3.5 telepathy power name (at least low-level ones - I'm saving higher levels for Paragon and Epic tier still), including Empathic Transfer (level 1 at-will now), and Telempathic Projection (level 2 utility now). I'll look at what can be done about it though.
I guess I missed telempathic projection in the power list, then; I'll see if anything else comes to mind.
Well then, first off, thanks. And second off, good luck! It's... quite strange, creating classes for 4th edition, but I think it actually helps to understand the system a bit more.
And hey, if you don't want to go through all the trouble, you could just use mine. :D
Well, I sort of feel obligated to go to the trouble. I'm currently* working on converting incarnum, and then I saw people converting the binder and I helped with that, and I helped people with psions, so I've decided that instead of inflicting my conversion ideas on other versions I'd just make my own conversions of those.
*I say currently working on, but I've put it on hold while I work on my DM's Toolkit, so before you ask, no, it's not posted anywhere on the boards.
I guess I missed telempathic projection in the power list, then; I'll see if anything else comes to mind.
You actually didn't miss the power - I hadn't updated the document in quite a while.
That said, the Telepath is updated (except for some fluff stuff) through level 10.
Feel free to feedback, on that -and- on my ideas for Psionic implements.
Had a quick scan if the telepath powers. Feedback so far:
Some of the manipulation type-powers probably need damage added. I think 4e wants every character to do damage alongside its effects to avoid that 3.5-healer-syndrome. *g*
Some of the powers have a rather close range. at the same time, the armor selection is limited to leather. That'll make an awfully frail leader. Wizards get their Int AC bonus, and warlocks their mobility and concealment to save them. The telepath is a glass leader :D
The feel of the powers seems right.
Go on!
Again, looks nice.
Had a quick scan if the telepath powers. Feedback so far:
Some of the manipulation type-powers probably need damage added. I think 4e wants every character to do damage alongside its effects to avoid that 3.5-healer-syndrome. *g*
Hm. The only one that I striped damage off of that was based on an existing power is Cunning Beckon - based on the Paladin's "Beckon Foe."
The differences between the two powers:
Paladin vs. Telepath
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ranged 5 vs. Ranged 10
Hit: (2d10 + Cha, Pull = WisMod) vs. Hit: (Pull = 3, or 2+WisMod)
For that power, specifically, my intent was to change it from a "hurt target + pull into melee reange" to a "don't hurt target, but pull distant target closer to allies". Should I add damage back in? Should I revert it back to a closer clone of the original (Paladin) power?
The other Cunning Telepath powers that don't deal damage are, I think all Cleric spells that have been reflavored.
Some of the powers have a rather close range. at the same time, the armor selection is limited to leather. That'll make an awfully frail leader. Wizards get their Int AC bonus, and warlocks their mobility and concealment to save them. The telepath is a glass leader :D
Well, glass leader is part of the intent - I want it to be more of a "caster" feeling leader than a big heavy leader. The rather close range is, mostly, a result of many of the powers being Cleric or Leader reflavors (for any melee powers, I think I did 1d6 = 1[W], and Melee touch or Melee weapon = Ranged 5).
If it's not too much, I'd love to give the telepath a bit more range. As it is, like you pointed out, he's going to be shredded by opposing powers.
The feel of the powers seems right.
Go on!
Awesome! I progress!
Moving on to a first draft of Soulknife, most likely. I'm considering...
Soul Link
Once per turn as a free, you can create a Soul Link with an enemy you hit with your mind blade. A creature with a link to you is more vulnerable to your attacks.
A Soul Link remains in effect until the end of the encounter or until the linked creature drops to 0 hit points or fewer.
You can create a Soul Link with multiple targets over the course of the encounter; each link requires a free action when you hit the target with your mind blade. You can't create a Soul Link with a creature that is already affected by your or another character's Soul Link.
Psychic Strike
If you damage an enemy to whom you have created a Soul Link when using your mind blade, you deal extra psychic damage. You decide whether to apply the extra damage after making the damage roll. You can deal this extra damage once per round.
As you advance in level, you extra damage increases.
@ Soulknife: Soul link concept is good. I'm looking forward to powers that both create and consume your Soul Link.
Idea-Flash:
Soul Cleave: Melee attack, if it kills establish a soul link with another creature within 5
See, I already like that concept :D
Other Ideas:
Powers that teleport you adjacent to your soul link victim.
Feedback powers to redirect part of your damage taken to a soul link (breaking the link, probably...)
...Soul Knife is probably the most satisfying design experience of all your classes... there are no 3.5 powers for soulknifes, so you hae no reigns on creativity. Boon and Burden :D
...Soul Knife is probably the most satisfying design experience of all your classes... there are no 3.5 powers for soulknifes, so you hae no reigns on creativity. Boon and Burden :D
Yeah, I'm getting that vibe from it. Starting from scratch is... strange compared to the other classes.
Important Note: I'd make Soul Link a minor action, not a free one. Similar to hunter's quarry and warlock's curse.
I wanted it to be, but I didn't know how to word it, and decided "free action" was a nice placeholder.
My intent is to spend the minor action to establish a link to any creature you can see that you hit with your mind blade since the start of your previous turn, but I was worried that people might see a big book-keeping hassle ("which monsters did you hit with that? Didn't you miss him?" etc)
I suppose it would work just as well if it had to be the same turn, though that prevents the Soulknife from linking after charging.
Other Ideas:
Powers that teleport you adjacent to your soul link victim.
Feedback powers to redirect part of your damage taken to a soul link (breaking the link, probably...)
Definitely yoink'd, and yeah, the intent is to make enough powers to keep the class "bound up" with the Soul Link ability.
As always, thanks for the feedback.
- Balance compared to similar power lists (leaders) first, and other power lists later.
- Feeling according to fluff.
- Uniqueness. If it does the same as another power, maybe it's better to find another mechanic.
Last point means I might propose own ideas that you can ponder upon.
Also, I definetly think that the telepath should keep out of melee and be a ranged "glass leader". Both already available leaders have either a strong melee option (cleric), or are definetly front-line (warlord), so it'd be good to have a leader in the back row. So I'll set a general range of 10 for my comments on your powers.
I didn't take a look at the Artificer yet, so I can't compare to that.
An idea that came up by looking at the powers and thinking: "what could the telepath do that others can't" - it's manipulating enemies to get them where your allies need them. So maybe most powers need your allies close by the enemies to have an effect? That could balance the longer range... it is included in the thoughts below.
Secondary thoughts: Telepath could allow for more party mobility by canceling enemies' ability to make Opportunity Attacks.
Also, I think the telepath could go with some ranged area effects.
At-Will
Cunning Manipulation: Basically the same as the Warlord's Commander's Strike. Proposition: Make it ranged (10), give it an additional condition to balance a bit (target must be flanked), leave rest as is. Name is misleading (has nothing to do with the "cunning" telepath build.) Maybe rename it to something like "Distract Enemy" or "Distracting Manipulation".
Empathic Transfer: Cleric's Sacred Flame vs. Will. Increase range to 10, either drop one of the effects (save or temp HP), or add condition (ally must be adjacent to target). Very Telepath, though.
Gleaning Touch: Priest's Shield. Increase Range to 10, change to vs. Will. Affects only one ally adjacent to target, not you and an ally both. Or maybe gives target a -1 attack on the first attack it makes before the start of your next turn, might need re-flavouring then.
Mind Thrust: Lance of Faith. Also the only talent with more than d6 dmg. Maybe add another effect instead of the +attack bonus. Proposition: Enemy takes -2 on all Oportunity Attacks until start of your next turn.
Additional Ideas
Implant Attraction: Creates an emotional attraction or pull on the creature. Cha vs Will, range 10, does Cha Mod dmg, target slides 1.
Cunning Manipulation: Basically the same as the Warlord's Commander's Strike. Proposition: Make it ranged (10), give it an additional condition to balance a bit (target must be flanked), leave rest as is. Name is misleading (has nothing to do with the "cunning" telepath build.) Maybe rename it to something like "Distract Enemy" or "Distracting Manipulation".
Empathic Transfer: Cleric's Sacred Flame vs. Will. Increase range to 10, either drop one of the effects (save or temp HP), or add condition (ally must be adjacent to target). Very Telepath, though.
Gleaning Touch: Priest's Shield. Increase Range to 10, change to vs. Will. Affects only one ally adjacent to target, not you and an ally both. Or maybe gives target a -1 attack on the first attack it makes before the start of your next turn, might need re-flavouring then.
Mind Thrust: Lance of Faith. Also the only talent with more than d6 dmg. Maybe add another effect instead of the +attack bonus. Proposition: Enemy takes -2 on all Oportunity Attacks until start of your next turn.
Additional Ideas
Implant Attraction: Creates an emotional attraction or pull on the creature. Cha vs Will, range 10, does Cha Mod dmg, target slides 1.
Either:
- Make it a free action after attacking an enemy, reagrdless of hit or miss, and limit the number of soul links to 1. Maybe increase the damage then (d8's?), as it is less flexible than other striker's damage abilities.
- Make it a free action after hitting an enemy, but no limit on # of links. (may give interesting strategies in combination with "Mind Arrow"-like powers)
- Make it a Minor Action vs. the closest enemy. (similar to warlock's curse)
Cunning Manipulation: "Distraction" works, for the name. I think I had "cunning" on it just because it applied the Ingelligence mod. Requiring that the target be flanked seems just too limiting for an At-Will power - that's my only concern with it. What about leaving it somewhere in the middle - Ranged 5, let's say, but with the full normal attack/hit effects? That would make it slightly better than Commander's Strike, but still make it a true "at-will" power.
Empathic Transfer: Yup, most of these are just reflavored powers, with slight modifications. I think changing it from "one ally you can see" to "one ally adjacent to the target" works the best - I see the temp hit points as the primary side-effect, but I don't want to sacrifice one of the only save-granting abilities the telepath has access to.
Gleaning Touch: It's not vs. Will? Well, that slipped in there. Might change the name to "Gleaning Insight" or some such, and the flavor to match the range. Probably just change it to "and one ally adjacent to the target gains a +1 power bonus to AC against any attacks made by the target..." etc.
Mind Thrust: Would you suggest a range-up on this one as well? I'm actually thinking the 5 suits it well enough. I see the +2 attack as an "almost combat advantage" effect. I like the -2 to OpAttacks though. But with that, most allies won't trigger OA's anyways, so the benefit might be moot. I know it would remain striking similar to the cleric power if left as-is, but I think that that might be tolerable here, since the effect is adequate.
Implant Attraction: I like it, though I think I might change the name to "Minor Attraction". Here's my draft, based on your idea:
Thanks in advance!
NecroAre you guys taking requests? I was a huge fan of the Lurk, and really want to see a 4e version of it grace my table again.
Thanks in advance!
Haha. Well, I wasn't planning on it, but perhaps. It will have to wait at least until I have rough sketches of the heroic-tier base psionic classes.
Also, this may sound dumb but... What's a lurk? I don't remember that class. Was it from Complete Psionics?
And yes, it is getting a LOT of work already ;)
Quick dip into the soulknife:
- Soul Link: maybe limit to 1/round during your turn? May depend on what kind of powers you're giving them, but as is, you could link with opportuinity attacks..
So maybe: Free action, once per turn during your turn you can....
- Implements/Crystal Bracers: Needs "you may add its enhancment bonus to atk/dmg rolls to all attacks with your mind blade and to all soulknife powers with the implement keyword".
- Powers: Most look very good. Suggestions:
Knife to the Soul: Leave at Cha vs. Will (Int won't hit that regularly....and the power's effect isn't that great.) Leave prerequisite, add + Int mod dmg to the effect.
Sever Life: Could go well with: if your target drops to 0 HP or below, gain temp HP equal to your (Secondary Ability for Life Takers? Con maybe?)
This way you have two distinctive At-Wills for the two builds, with cool effects.
On to the Telepath.
I've been thinking...
I really, really think the At-Wills should be the most unique of ALL the powers. They're bread-and-butter, and should define the class as it is. So, even if it fits, they shouldn't copy another classes At-Wills. It's your call, just my thoughts. So maybe you could fit some other mechanics for your At-Wills... especially the "gives attacks" is the trademark ability of the warlord, other classes shouldn't get it.
And I think Hide Armor is ok for the telepath. Leather only is better for flavor, but then i'd really add one or two defensive powers. ("you want to hit me? No, you don't. Stick that sword inside yourself, will you?")
So, how about this (At-Will Suggestions)
Cunning Manipulation: Range 10, Cha vs. Will, 1d6+Cha untyped damage (the target ran into his own sword? :D ). Until the beginning of your next turn, when the target first takes damage, he takes additional 1d6+Cha dmg of the same type that damaged the target.
He REALLY needs a basic attack that doesn't deal psychic dmg. That keeps players from getting very frustrated.
Empathic Transfer: I see what you're meaning... hm. Right now, don't have any ideas there.
Gleaning Insight: That should work.
Mind Thrust: Hm... yup, it fit's the flavour, still.... maybe target can't make OA until start of your next turn? I think there's a core feature you could give the Telepath that's NOT inside the cleric or the warlord, to enhance mobility for your allies.
Minor Attraction. Great! Looks sweet & tactical.
Cunning Manipulation: Range 10, Cha vs. Will, 1d6+Cha untyped damage (the target ran into his own sword? :D ). Until the beginning of your next turn, when the target first takes damage, he takes additional 1d6+Cha dmg of the same type that damaged the target.
He REALLY needs a basic attack that doesn't deal psychic dmg. That keeps players from getting very frustrated.
Empathic Transfer: I see what you're meaning... hm. Right now, don't have any ideas there.
Gleaning Insight: That should work.
Mind Thrust: Hm... yup, it fit's the flavour, still.... maybe target can't make OA until start of your next turn? I think there's a core feature you could give the Telepath that's NOT inside the cleric or the warlord, to enhance mobility for your allies.
Minor Attraction. Great! Looks sweet & tactical.
The question: Are you going to include a "Master Thrower" Soulknife path?
You're doing some great work. I like it.
The question: Are you going to include a "Master Thrower" Soulknife path?
Thank you, and perhaps. I know two paths will focus on the Life Taker and Soul Striker builds, but I'm thinking the other two will be more "core ability" focused. Probably along the lines of the Elocator, for one of them, and something else for the other, but we'll see.
Definitely look for more throwing powers in the progression though.
Very nice work sir. I especially like the Vigor mechanic, very elegant mechanically and does a great job of flavoring the class. Strongly considering nabbing these for playtest.
Thanks again. Let me know if you do, though I must warn that the Egoist probably needs a good solid revision before you do. But hey, if you try it out and it works, well, that would be awesome.
Ok, next round.
And yes, it is getting a LOT of work already ;)
Quick dip into the soulknife:
- Soul Link: maybe limit to 1/round during your turn? May depend on what kind of powers you're giving them, but as is, you could link with opportuinity attacks..
So maybe: Free action, once per turn during your turn you can....
At, that was my mistake. It was supposed to be once per turn, but I dropped it somewhere. Added back in.
- Implements/Crystal Bracers: Needs "you may add its enhancment bonus to atk/dmg rolls to all attacks with your mind blade and to all soulknife powers with the implement keyword".
Well, it says it in the Mind Blade ability. I'll change it to be "all attacks with the mind blade" instead of just basic attacks, and I'll add that section to the Implement section.
- Powers: Most look very good. Suggestions:
Knife to the Soul: Leave at Cha vs. Will (Int won't hit that regularly....and the power's effect isn't that great.) Leave prerequisite, add + Int mod dmg to the effect.
I think you're missing the intended ability set-ups a bit. The builds are intended to be Dex/Int (Soul Striker), and Dex/Cha (Life Taker). I do like the idea of making these powers have more flair though. For Knife to the Soul, I've added:
"If the target drops to 0 or fewer hit points, you gain a +2 power bonus on your next attack before the end of your next turn."
Sever Life: Could go well with: if your target drops to 0 HP or below, gain temp HP equal to your (Secondary Ability for Life Takers? Con maybe?)
I like it. I've added:
"If the target drops to 0 or fewer hit points, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Charisma modifier."
This way you have two distinctive At-Wills for the two builds, with cool effects.
Yup, very good call.
On to the Telepath.
Poor, poor telepath.
I've been thinking...
I really, really think the At-Wills should be the most unique of ALL the powers. They're bread-and-butter, and should define the class as it is. So, even if it fits, they shouldn't copy another classes At-Wills. It's your call, just my thoughts. So maybe you could fit some other mechanics for your At-Wills... especially the "gives attacks" is the trademark ability of the warlord, other classes shouldn't get it.
I think we're getting there. Especially by this post.
Cunning Manipulation: Okay, I have a new one that has the effect you describe, but with a different name (because the name and fluff aren't really descriptive of it anymore). I suggest that this power replace Cunning Manipulation in the at-will line up.
Mindlink Idea sounds great!
Mind Thrust should work well, with the ruleas as well as the flavour.
Awkward Stumble is good stuff.
Emphatic Drain is working.
So... we're now quite set at Lvl 1-2, with the notable exeption of Bolstering Surge.
Only left to Update the list, have fun :D
Are you planning on leaving the Soul Knife build At-Wills with the secondary Ability for Attacks? I'm not so sure about that.
Are you planning on leaving the Soul Knife build At-Wills with the secondary Ability for Attacks? I'm not so sure about that.
Oh, I see now. Yeah, I was planning on it. The bonuses should still be pretty good, since they are still Weapon attacks (ie - they get the mind blade's +3 prof bonus) and they target non-ac defenses (fort and will). I think leaving it with the primary stat (Dex) might make them too accurate.
Still, it already has a target limitation, so I think it's ok for them to be accurate.
Whatever, it might work. You just have to be carefull if you want to continue splitting attack abilities for your powers all along the power list.
This is probably something you need to compare and even out when the list is complete.
That said, I'll continue with the Telepath List
On a side note: How about renaming the builds to Manipulator and Empath? Sounds nicer.
Encounter 3
Hm.... this is actually the complete Lvl 3 cleric list, apart from range modifications. So balance shouldn't be a problem, then :D
The Lvl 3 power you choose will accompany the character up to lvl 18 as one of his most basic attacks, so they should be well defined, and (again ;) ) unique. I'll hunt for ideas instead of directly commenting.
Seeing the stuff we compiled until now, that would mean:
1.) One power that manipulates enemy position for the manipulator build
2.) One healing/buffing power for the empath build
3.) One single-target power with higher than average dmg.
4.) One area-effect power.
Encounter 3 Powers
1.)Manipulation: Maybe we can fit some sort of attack-giving power in here, something like...
Like Lambs to the Slaughter: Ranged 10, Cha vs Will, slide 4. One ally adjacent to your target after the slide can make an Oportunity Attack with a +2 power bonus to atk/dmg.
Mainpulator: + Int mod to atk/dmg
Shouldn't feel too "Warlord", does it?
2.) How about making the Focused Blast the empathic power? Like:
Focusing Blast: Ranged 10, vs Will, 1d8+Cha psychic, all allies adjacent to target gain a +2 power bonus to attack rolls until the end of your next turn. Empath: + Wis mod to attack rolls instead.
The Telepath is still missing a solid +atk power, and this is the Empath's domain.
3.)Force Thrust: I think this one should be the high-dmg, single target power. Because:
- it deals force dmg (to even out the psychic-one-trick-pony)
- There's nothing nicer than a big telekinetic punch :D
So maybe up dmg to the 2d10 of Daunting Light, leave the prone, maybe, just maybe, lessen the push to 1sq.
4.) Leaves the minor area effect. This shouldn't deal too much dmg, but give some good side effect.
Threatening Vision
Your ally seems to grow to your enemies, posing a threat they cannot ignore.
Area burst 2 centered on an ally, targets enemies, Cha vs Will, 1d6+Cha dmg, the target is marked by your ally until end of your next turn.
Fluff and naming still might need work. , Also, range maybe needs to be reduced to burst 1.
1.)Manipulation: Maybe we can fit some sort of attack-giving power in here, something like...
Like Lambs to the Slaughter: Ranged 10, Cha vs Will, slide 4. One ally adjacent to your target after the slide can make an Oportunity Attack with a +2 power bonus to atk/dmg.
Mainpulator: + Int mod to atk/dmg
Shouldn't feel too "Warlord", does it?
2.) How about making the Focused Blast the empathic power? Like:
Focusing Blast: Ranged 10, vs Will, 1d8+Cha psychic, all allies adjacent to target gain a +2 power bonus to attack rolls until the end of your next turn. Empath: + Wis mod to attack rolls instead.
The Telepath is still missing a solid +atk power, and this is the Empath's domain.
3.)Force Thrust: I think this one should be the high-dmg, single target power. Because:
- it deals force dmg (to even out the psychic-one-trick-pony)
- There's nothing nicer than a big telekinetic punch :D
So maybe up dmg to the 2d10 of Daunting Light, leave the prone, maybe, just maybe, lessen the push to 1sq.
4.) Leaves the minor area effect. This shouldn't deal too much dmg, but give some good side effect.
Threatening Vision
Your ally seems to grow to your enemies, posing a threat they cannot ignore.
Area burst 2 centered on an ally, targets enemies, Cha vs Will, 1d6+Cha dmg, the target is marked by your ally until end of your next turn.
Fluff and naming still might need work.
, Also, range maybe needs to be reduced to burst 1.Confusing Blast: The Warlock's Crown of Madness, but it does fit. Hm.. I think the wording is somewhat unclear (in the original power).
Still, as nice as it is, maybe we should take a different approach. That could free up the "make it attack allies" effect for a more Telepath-unique power.
Proposition:
Cha vs Will, Hit:the target is dazed until the start of your next turn and suffers damage equal to one of its basic attacks of your choice.
Sustain Minor: The target is dazed until the start of your next turn, and you slide the target a number of squares equal to its speed score.
or
Sustain Minor: Repeat the attack.
The last option is probably the better one.
Empathic Field: =Consecreated Ground. As is, it's surely one of the poorer cleric powers. If we go with the new "empathic" line of powers, it will become a good option: Ranged (5 or 10?),Single target, Cha vs Will, deals 1d6+Cha psychic dmg, adjacent bloodied allies regain 1d6+Cha mod HP. Sustain Minor: Target suffers 1d6+Cha psychic dmg, and all bloodied allies regain 1d6+Cha HP.
Maybe add an attack roll to the sustain to even out the range.
Open Mind: Niiiiiice! I like! (even though it's Sign of Vulnerability). This makes for some good combos with other characters. Still, it may need some tweaking to set it apart. Just can't think of any right now.
Pacifistic Urges: ranged Rune of Peace. I'd add: "this power ends if the target is attacked.", to balance for range.
Additional Suggestions:
Maybe to replace Pacifistic Urges:
Beckoning Transposition: Area burst 5 within 10, targets 1 enemy, cha vs. Will, 1d10+Cha dmg, choose one ally within the burst and teleport the target adjacent to that ally. Sustain Minor: repeat the attack and teleport the target adjacent to the chosen ally.
You could substitute the teleport for a slide (flavour?).
Empathic Boon
Utility 2
close burst 5
Primary target: you or an ally.
Secondary target: you or an ally.
Effect:Your primary target can spend a healing surge but regains no hp. Instead, your secondary target regains hp equal to its surge value. The primaty target gains temporary HP equal to your Wis Mod.
Greater Empathic Boon:
Utility 6
close burst 5
Primary target: you or an ally.
Secondary target: you or an ally.
Effect:Your primary target can spend a healing surge but regains no hp. Instead, your secondary target regains hp equal to twice its surge value.The primaty target gains temporary HP equal to your Wis Mod.
I don't think the telepath should be able to give hp without spending surges. That's cleric country. And this better fits the feel.
As for the other Utility 6 powers:
Guiding Hand: Very Specific, won't happen very often. Why not allow it to happen on any attack?
Telekinetic Levitation: It is what it is. No need in changing that. Keep one thing in mind, though: it's a wizard utility, and they can choose this or an "effective" utility if they like, the telepath hasn't got that. How about an elocater-style movement instead?
Scorn Earth:Daily, ranged 5, the target gains climb speed equal to its speed score and ignores difficult terrain. Any effect that would knock the target prone instead dazes it until the end of it's next turn. This power lasts for 5 minutes or until the end of the encounter. Needs some type of Sustaining.
Thought Shield: It's cool, not very strong though. Make it close burst 5, targets you or one ally. Increase the bonus to +3.
Also, I'd move Missive over here, like this:
Missive
Encounter, Minor
Target: One ally you can see.
Effect: Until the end of your next turn, you and your target can communicate telepathically without being heard. Your target gains a +2 power bonus to any one skill check it makes until the end of your next turn.
Your Missive is, in fact, a ritual. This one is a ranged aid another as minor, with additional fluff telepathy.
Maybe move Scorn Earth to lvl 10, and add the ability to move over any kind of surface without sinking, and/or to ignore falling damage.
Over and out.
Necroblivion, for now, For the lurk, I would probably take the rogue, create an augument class feature to replace Sneak Attack, or another rogue class feature. Then change the names of class powers to have a more psionic flavor. To finish it up, borrow a few low-powerd egoist and telepath powers from this thread. Hope it helps!
Yes, I see what you're wanting there. Hm... the +3 prof should even out, that's true. This just makes "dipping" into the other build a lot more difficult.
Still, it already has a target limitation, so I think it's ok for them to be accurate.
Whatever, it might work. You just have to be carefull if you want to continue splitting attack abilities for your powers all along the power list.
This is probably something you need to compare and even out when the list is complete.
Soulknife is in a "holding pattern" for the moment, as is a full Egoist revision. I had a loooong time last night to just consider the builds (midnight to 3 am, to be precise, on the last leg of our drive after my fiancee fell asleep), and I want to go through and better define each build and concept for both Soulknife and Egoist.
The builds, though - how I want them to break down, once I go back through - should be:
Egoist
Psychic Warrior (Primary: Str, Secondary: Wis; Revised to be a sword+board warrior, focusing on defense and probably attacks that mark targets)
Metamorphosist (Primary: Con, Secondary: Wis; Revised to be a melee brawler-type, focusing on attacks that hinder movement)
For the egoist, I'm also considering options for their Challenge ability. I'm thinking of using a clause like: "A marked enemy adjacent to the egoist can shift only into another square adjacent to the egoist."
Soulknife
Life Taker (Primary: Dex, Secondary: Charisma; More of a brawler/duelist, who uses his ability to steal life energy to maintain himself while dishing out significant damage with two weapons.)
Soul Striker (Primary: Dex, Secondary: Intelligence; More of a skirmisher, who uses his ability to set up devastating attacks, with some of his build-specific powers even being ranged.)
That said, I'll continue with the Telepath List
On a side note: How about renaming the builds to Manipulator and Empath? Sounds nicer.
Yeah, I agree, it sounds better. The format I was using was how the PH classes are done (build names contain the name of the class). I'm thinking I'm going to abandon the PH approach to the names for all of the classes, since I'm already doing so for the Egoist, and I plan on doing so for the Soulknife too.
Encounter 3
Like Lambs to the Slaughter: It will work, I think, once it's cleaned up. That said, I would have a slide of 3 (2 + int for Cunning), and an ally make only a basic attack. To make it parallel other sliding powers, it could deal Cha mod damage on a hit, in addition to the other effects. Workable though, and a valid replacement for Cunning Command.
Focusing Blast: I don't see why a solid attack-boosting power is the empath's domain. That is, unless we make it its domain, but as-is, the effect is more well suited to a general "mindlink" type thing. The empath aspect just feels kind of tacked-on.
What about something like "Downward Spiral"; (Ranged 10; Cha vs. Will; 1d8 + Charisma modifier psychic damage. Until the end of your next turn, when the target is hit by an attack it takes 2 psychic damage in addition to the attack's normal effect. Empath: When the target is hit by an attack it takes 1 + your Wisdom modifier psychic damage in addition to the attack's normal effect.)? It's similar to the Warlord's "Warlord's Strike" power, but with reduced damage traded for increased range, and psychic damage instead of normal damage.
Force Thrust: It's actually based on "Split the Sky," as written. Even compared to Daunting Light, Prone is likely to be better than Advantage to one ally, since it gives Combat Advantage on attacks against the prone target.
So, starting at Daunting Light then. 2d10 + Cha mod untyped damage. The CA that DL grants is an effect, so it would always go into effect. I think that means that, if the effect is tied to the Hit (ie, in the hit line instead of the effect line), it can be a bit more powerful. Push 2 would work, on its own. Prone is still too powerful, I think. So, we have:
PsyWar: Good at keeping multiple opponents at bay. Lots of powers mark, maybe mark in burst, powers have addidiotnal effect to marked targets.
Metamorph: Good at focusing on one enemy, inflicting debuffs and higher dmg. Grab could be a good option to build on, apart from 1 or 2 rogue powers, grab has not seen much attention, and building powers that grab or need a grab to work sound like a lot of fun
I'll keep from reviewing the last 3 Telepath Lvls until we figured out the other powers.
On to the 5er Dailies.
Confusing Blast: So, how about we bump a Confusing Blast equivilent, with more damage and attacking Fort instead of Will, up to higher slot, and make it a force / telekinesis power (named, of course, Control Body, like the 3.5 power of the same name).
For this one then, something like...
Suggested Self Destruction
Standard Action; Ranged 10; Target: One Creature; Attack: Charisma vs. Will; Hit: Target makes a melee basic attack against himself.
Manipulator: When the target makes his melee basic attack against himself, he gains a power bonus to attack and damage for that attack equal to your Intelligence modifier.
Sustain Minor: Repeat the attack (save ends).
Sustainable daze just seems like a -bit- too much, especially without "save ends" (though I really don't get how "save ends" on the sustain works - I mean, I know how it -should- work, but I don't remember seeing rules that supported it.).
Empathic Field: How about we change it up a bit?
Standard Action; Area burst 3 within 10; Effect: The burst creates a zone of psionic energy that lasts until the end of your next turn. You can move the origin square of the zone 3 squares as a move action. When a bloodied ally in the zone successfully hits an enemy in the zone with an attack, the ally deals psychic damage equal to your Wisdom modifier with the attack, in addition to the normal effects of a hit, and regains 1 + your Wisdom modifier hit points.; Sustain Minor: The zone persists.
This makes it more of the "empathic" feel, with different effects. The larger area and ranged capabilities should be offset by the requirement that your allies actually hit your opponents to activate the zone's benefits. Really, this seems more Leader-ey of a power than the Cleric one (which feels like a Control/Leader hybridization).
Open Mind: It it works, we should leave it alone. Duped powers are, I assume, going to happen in 4th (or so close to it that they may as well be dupes), and as long as they work for the item in question, I've no problem with that.
Pacifistic Urges: Arright, good plan.
"this power ends if the target is attacked.", to balance for range.
Beckoning Transposition: The teleport is definitely too much, and out of character for the telepath.
Might work better as:
Standard Action; Ranged 10; Target: One enemy; Cha vs. Will; Hit: Cha mod damage, and choose an ally within 5 squares of the target. Slide the target to the closest square adjacent to the chosen ally. The ally can make a melee basic attack against the target.; Manipulator: The chosen ally gains a power bonus to attack and damage with his melee basic attack equal to your Intelligence modifier.; Sustain Minor: Repeat the attack.
This seems like a pretty good power, but I think it might work better somewhere else (either higher or lower level, somewhere), simply because it is another Manipulator power, when we already have one for this level. We'll see if we can't reuse the idea elsewhere though.
As such, what about this for a replacement:
Bolster Allies
Daily; Healing, Psionic
Minor Action; Close burst 10
Targets: You and each ally in burst.
Effect: The targets gain temporary hit points equal to 5 + your Wisdom modifier.
Guiding Hand: Every attack, I think, is too much. How about just changing the trigger to "An ally makes a melee attack"? Then it's still limited, but it's more useful.
My only problem with it is that it makes the ability better than the Warlord's Inspiring Charge (or whatever the equivalent is).
What about using your Missive variant for Guiding Hand? Something akin to...
Cunning Guidance
Encounter; Psionic
Immediate Reaction; Ranged 10
Target: One ally within range that you can see or hear makes an attack or a skill check
Effect: Grant the ally a power bonus equal to your Intelligence modifier on the attack or skill check roll.
Telekinetic Levitation: I don't see why -not- for Levitation. I think we're better off leaving it in.
A "scorn earth" effect will probably be on an Elocater paragon path (though I don't know if I want that path to be for Egoists, Soulknives, or Telepaths - probably Soulknives).
Thought Shield:
How about, instead:
Thought Shield
Daily; Psionic
Immediate Interrupt; Personal; Trigger: You are affected by a Charm or Illusion power that a save could end.
Effect: You make a saving throw against the triggering power, with a bonus equal to your Charisma modifier.
That makes it different, but useful.
Missive: The version of Missive you have is barely better (range only) than the Ranger Level 2 Utility "Crucial Advice." I'd rather keep with the long-range information ability, as it fits the Telepath ability set as well as (if not better than) the Warlock.
Your Missive is, in fact, a ritual. This one is a ranged aid another as minor, with additional fluff telepathy.
It's actually the Ambassador Imp power, with the Imp flavoring cut out.
And wait... Missive is a level 10 power. The above comments still hold true though.
Once I get your feedback on the 3's, 5's and 6's, I'll update the main Telepath post (and my own documents) to the powers that we can come to an agreement on. Then onto 7's, 9's and 10's. Wooo!
Soulknife powers incoming (probably tomorrow morning) through level 10. Overall, I'm pretty happy with them, though I'm already seeing places where I need to go back through and clean them up. A lot of unique (read: not just reflavored PH) powers.
Still waiting on Telepath input, both in response to my last set of comments, and for further powers.
The plan is to re-tackle the Egoist before moving on to Shaper. What can I say, I'm avoiding the "summoning issue" like the plague for the time being. Plus, the Egoist needs a lot of cleaning up mechanically, and as the Swordmage preview is out now I feel more inspired to find a unique "style" of defender-ing for them. We'll see.
All feedback and comments from -everyone- area always very, very welcome. Don't think that this is any kind of private project. And if anyone wants to try out the Telepath for a few levels of playtesting (specifically levels 1 and 2, which have already gone through the first round of revisions), let me know how it works out in play, especially in comparison to the cleric or the warlord.
Thanks all! *sleeeeps*
There is only one aspect that I feel is key to a good soulknife - Spontaneity. One of the things I liked about the soulknife was the ability to go from common peasant to threat in a single round. Every round after that should be equally suprising. This has been captured in the utility powers nicely, but it would be nice to get some more interrupt style powers, to give the soulknife a more predictive fighting style. I think that would give the soulknife more of a tie to the psionics than just a mindblade, but then again, I just really like the interrupt type powers in concept.
Overall BRAVO.
Any plans on converting these into MSE Power Cards when they're done?
MSE?
Sure, if they're free. Trying to put together a full PDF for the set, along with additional rules as well (such as skills, feats, item lists, rituals, and probably the DMG-style information for NPCs).
MSE?
Magic Set Editor. It's a great way to organize the Power list for your class, since you can select and print only those powers you want easily. Look at Saric's Bard (there are plenty of others who use it as well) for more info.
Sure, if they're free.
They are free
I highly recommend it.Magic Set Editor. It's a great way to organize the Power list for your class, since you can select and print only those powers you want easily. Look at Saric's Bard (there are plenty of others who use it as well) for more info.
They are free
If you have a link (either here or in PM), I'll definitely try to do that once I get things done and polished.
Side Note (Unrelated to current discussion here): Skills (okay, skill, and it's nothing new) and Feats (just the obvious ones) added in the first post.
I've got my first draft of the "astral construct" series of powers for the Shaper ready (along with a Paragon Path... for a class that I haven't written yet. Yeah, can you guess what my favorite 3.X class was?). I'll probably be posting them in a separate thread first though, since summoning is such a problem with people. When I do, I'll link it here.
EDIT: Linky Linky!
If you have a link (either here or in PM), I'll definitely try to do that once I get things done and polished.
Here's a link.
Here's a link.
Awesome. I'll try to do that when I get 'em done.
Beyond that, slight update. I've got a full progression of Astral Construct powers done for the shaper, as well as a Paragon Path, but... not much else. I'm especially having problems with the Utility powers, and I'm leery of veering too far away from the Wizard's spells as frameworks for shaper powers, just because we don't have any other controllers to use as examples of a "balanced" controller.
Astral Construct powers, as you might know, got their own thread for awhile, and I'm still working on hammering out their overall issues on that thread. I felt, though, that I really needed to start putting -something- together for the Shaper. He looked so very sad. I mean, the Egoist needs a whole ton o' work at the moment, but at least he's there.
I have non-utility powers for the Shaper up through level 9 (and astral constructs all the way to 29), and I'll be posting them as I get time.
As always, thanks just for looking.
But I need some ideas, if anyone has them. Especially for those Shaper Utility powers (and I mean all of the levels - so suggestions for Utility 2 Talents, Utility 6 Talents, Utility 10 Talents, Utility 16 Talents, Utility 22 Talents).
I must be insane.
Well, okay, the rituals aren't -actually- in the post yet. Because I'm insane.
But hey, look on the bright side: The Shaper finally has some class features!
Yup, every class is at least "playable" at level 1 now.
A few clarifications on the ritual tattoos:
Can a person with a ritual Tattoo teach the ritual to someone else?
Can anyone, even non-psionic people make a ritual tattoo?
Does making a standard ritual into a tattoo change its in game implementation at all?
Also, can psionic rituals be put into a ritual book?
I like the idea of Tattoos as rituals.
Well, I wanted them to still be part of the rules, but I wanted them to be more important than just "They're potions... again!"
Can a person with a ritual Tattoo teach the ritual to someone else?
*shrug* It's mostly a flavor thing. Whatever the PH rules are for teaching someone a ritual from a ritual book, same thing - except it's on your skin.
Can anyone, even non-psionic people make a ritual tattoo?
Yes. Think of it as an expanded option more than a psionics-only option. It's mostly a flavor thing - psionic characters favor this method over ritual books.
Does making a standard ritual into a tattoo change its in game implementation at all?
If you mean just using a normal ritual as a tattoo, no, it doesn't change it at all. It still requires the same skill, the same "pages," and the same components.
If you mean changing an arcane ritual into a psionic ritual, for flavor reasons, then yes, it would change which skill you use, and which type of components you have to use.
Also, can psionic rituals be put into a ritual book?
Yup. They're just rituals. The tattoos are simply a different option from a ritual book. They're more or less unrelated to the actual psionic rituals. They just go together thematically.
The "Classic" Party (For Comparison)
First off, I played the classic party all wrong, and their luck was terrible. That slants this a little bit. Anyways, the Rogue ran out to catch the slinger out in the open, and hit it with First Strike/Sneak Attack. That ended up being a bad plan really fast, when the Rogue, who was in a bad position anyways, got Immobilized ("Glue Shot") in a bad location, where two skirmishers could both get adjacent (but no flank).
In short, the Fighter just couldn't get a good position for filling his role well, and the Rogue took the majority of the damage. Even without Sneak Attack, the Rogue was a damage powerhouse with Sly Flourish (Halfling, so... it was like 1d4+7). Low attack rolls made the Wizard an embarrassment, and the Cleric (a laser-cleric build) did okay, but also couldn't hit anything until the very end.
Overall, the classic party fared pretty well, with only the Rogue taking a serious beating. The fighter ended down 14 hp; the Cleric down 4 hp, with 2 out of 3 encounter powers expended; the Rogue down 11 hp and 1 healing surge, with both of his encounter powers expended; and the wizard hadn't spent any resources at all.
First off, I played the classic party all wrong, and their luck was terrible. That slants this a little bit. Anyways, the Rogue ran out to catch the slinger out in the open, and hit it with First Strike/Sneak Attack. That ended up being a bad plan really fast, when the Rogue, who was in a bad position anyways, got Immobilized ("Glue Shot") in a bad location, where two skirmishers could both get adjacent (but no flank).
In short, the Fighter just couldn't get a good position for filling his role well, and the Rogue took the majority of the damage. Even without Sneak Attack, the Rogue was a damage powerhouse with Sly Flourish (Halfling, so... it was like 1d4+7). Low attack rolls made the Wizard an embarrassment, and the Cleric (a laser-cleric build) did okay, but also couldn't hit anything until the very end.
Overall, the classic party fared pretty well, with only the Rogue taking a serious beating. The fighter ended down 14 hp; the Cleric down 4 hp, with 2 out of 3 encounter powers expended; the Rogue down 11 hp and 1 healing surge, with both of his encounter powers expended; and the wizard hadn't spent any resources at all.
Persuasive mind [Telepath]
Prerequisite: one power with the Charm keyword, Telepath
Benefit: When you use a power with the Charm keyword, you may either slide one more square, or deal 1 extra point of damage.
- - - - -
Beyond that, an update of this thread is long overdue. It's not that I haven't been working on things... it's that I've been working on the Egoist, and it has been... infuriating for the most part (mostly because I keep bouncing around on what I want him to be).
That said, here's a set of Egoist class features that I think I'm finally satisfied with:
EGOIST CLASS FEATURES
You have the following class features.
Aggressive Compulsion
The egoist can generate a field of psionic energy that manipulates his foes, drawing their attention toward him. You can use the aggressive compulsion power to mark several nearby enemies of your choice.
Egoist Path
The egoist hones his mind and body to become ever more skilled at combat. Choose one of the following paths and gain its benefit.
[indent] Metamorphosist: You are focused on the energy of the body, and channeling it to alter your form. When you have both hands free (not holding any objects, and able to make attacks), you gain a +1 bonus to AC, and a +1 bonus to attack rolls with egoist or egoist paragon path powers with the polymorph keyword.
Psionicist: You are focused on the energy of the mind, and channeling it to augment your physical capabilities. Once per encounter you can use either the precognitive reflex power or the precognitive strike power.[/indent]
Psionic Vigor
Psionic power flows freely through the body of the egoist, fortifying him against harm. You can use the vigor power to fortify your body.
I can playtest the classes in my next game, if you wish. Glad you liked the telepath feat. I've also seen that you've created a multi-class feat for the telepath, but would you mind if I made multi-class feats for the rest of the classes?
Not at all, I'd love it! I was holding off on the others because their class features hadn't been nailed down all the way yet. Egoist and Shaper are now "complete" when it comes to features, so they should work fine. I'm still going to tweak at least one aspect of the Soulknife, but it shouldn't be anything that would affect a MC feat anyways, so you can go ahead on that too.
If you playtest anything, just let me know how it works out.
Strong of Mind [Multi-class egoist]
Prerequisite: Con or Cha 13
Benefit: Gain training in one of the Egoist class skills.
You may use Precognitive reflex and Precognitive Strike each once per day.
Ectoplasmic Initiate [Multi-class Shaper]
Prerequisite: Int 13
Benefit: Gain training in Psionics.
You may use one Shaper at-will talent as an encounter power.
You may use Third-eyes and Dorjes as implements.
Mind Shard Student [Multi-class Soul Knife]
Prerequisite: Cha or Str 13
Benefit: Gain training in one of the Soul Knife class skills.
You may manifest a Mind Blade once per encounter. Also you may use the Psychic strike class feature once per encounter.
You may use Third-eyes as implements.
You mention that you want some suggestions for Shaper Utility 2 powers, and I have one, though it may be a little higher than two, or it may better qualify as an attack power. I'll let you be the judge.
What if you were able to enhance your Minor Construct into an Astral Flanker--a construct that can simply provide you (or someone else at higher levels of the power?) with flankage? It might not be a great boon for a shaper, who is likely not a melee expert, but if you could provide flank for the party rogue, well, that'd be a great thing--all without putting a humanoid life in risk.
The constructs are great "door openers" and "trap finders" too, aren't they?
Heh heh heh!
Tyrskald, 4E player of:
Thoqqua Alecarver, Dwarven Dungeoneer
Ei'lu Zjenyst, Tiefling Glamourist &
Zas'elwe Anai, Eladrin Spearwarrior
Also I have to say, one of my personal favorite psionic classes was the wilder and I think that the wilder would be a great addition to these. It saddens me no one has thought of making one.
I think I have some decent Shaper utilities, but I'm always looking for more suggestions (Utilities are... well, I find them to be the most difficult part of the design process, after general mechanical concepts).
Also I have to say, one of my personal favorite psionic classes was the wilder and I think that the wilder would be a great addition to these. It saddens me no one has thought of making one.
I started working on a "Wilder" multiclass-only class for 4th (along the lines of Spellscarred from FR), but the concept kind of fell apart upon implementation. I'm considering a Paragon Path, at the very least, down the road. My general approach to Wilder, though, is more of a "modification" to the core psionic classes (probably including all of Telepath, Shaper, Egoist/PsyWar, and Nomad/Souknife) - something that changes and augments how the "base" class works (which is mostly in line with the 3.5 Wilder, which was really just a modified Psion).
For a Wilder, from me, the best I can say is eventually, though really I have no idea what it will look like other than the above.
I can see why the shaper is the controller and the telepath is the leader...but I always played a more controllerish telepath in 3.5 Attraction and Aversion were so horribly broken for me...lol.
Overall though, I like what you've done so far...which is more than I can say for almost any other homebrew I've ever seen on any forums anywhere. Usually the homebrew I find is really just one or more spoiled gamer brats (often of towering intellctual ego, but not intellect...as well as age) wanting to eat their cake (and everyone else's) and have it too (and everyone else's). Good Job and kudos.
Also, good job on the feats, Pyro, they fit Frito's work well.
I wish I had something more constructive to add myself, but until I playtest it (assuming I get the chance), I'm not really in a position to do so, and don't really have much for ideas yet anyway.
Edit: I really don't miss the Wilder at all myself. And the problem with lots of classes is that there are only so many things that can be done in-combat, and out-of-combat, and only so many ways to do each. And even then, only a small portion of all those possibilities are really worthwhile or necessary, and only a small portion of the potential methods actually work well. Once you've covered all those, you'll always end up having a class that's like another class. We can either reflavor only...or tweak a bit more and be happy. But those are really the only options at the end.
Keep up the good work.
I have a "full complement" of powers ready for the Soulknife, but it's hit a slight conceptual snag. "Soulknife" has completely consumed the 3.5 "Nomad," much as the "Psychic Warrior" continues to consume the 3.5 "Egoist," becoming one-and-the-same.
This means, among other things, that an entire "build" for the Egoist/Psychic Warrior has been moved and altered, becoming a part of the Soulknife/Nomad. It also means that I may strip away the soulknife "name" - and instead make it a build path / class feature option under the new class "header" of Nomad.
Right now I'm seeing how well I can make it work. What this generally means is this: The "Soulknife" class, if changed to The Nomad class, will be a Psionic Striker with an emphasis on movement - through time and space. Lots of teleportation, lots of temporal abilities, and lots o' stabbin'.
Given the (impending) release of the Avenger as well (and it's "not a damage bonus" feature on a striker; Sorcerer and Barbarian to a lesser extent too), I'm considering revamping the "Soulknife"'s "Psychic Strike" feature to instead somehow emphasize "quickness" and movement - perhaps a counter ability? Or I may keep the extra damage feature and include something like a built in "countering" option.
Anywho, rambling a bit - the Soulknife is nearly done; if you're following this drivel that I keep posting (well, it's not that bad, but sometimes I wonder), expect to see either a "Souknife (Psionic Striker)" thread or a "Nomad (Psionic Striker)" thread within the next week or so.
And now: Allons-y!
Edit: And for those keeping score at home, the plan is to revisit the Shaper next (I'm still not adopting the 4th Edition "summoning" constraints though - I don't think my concepts are better, but I do think that they lend themselves to a class built around summoning/conjuration much better), and revise it to meet the new "Mode" framework. Then, finally, I'll revisit the Egoist, and really put my back into it. It would have come up sooner (besides real world stuff), but a lot of the non-metamorphosis stuff has been stolen by the Soulknife/Nomad, which really sets it back abit (to be fair though, the Soulknife was redesigned from scratch, and hardly resembles the draft here at this point). Anywho, rambling again. :D
Thank you for your hard work. I will give these classes a try. Recently I compiled a generic psionicist {Search 4e psionicist to find} from several items I found in the boards. I think I like your idea of each discipline being a different character role much better than the "generic" version I assembled.
I'll let you know how they work out.
Timmee!