[4e] Qualinesti [PEACH] - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

[4e] Qualinesti [PEACH]

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
damnedmage
Mar 30, 2009 1:05:30 RACIAL TRAITS

[INDENT]
Average height: 4'5" - 5'1"
Average Weight: 75 - 110 lb

Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low-light

Languages: Common, Elven, choice of one other
Skill Bonuses: +2 Diplomacy, +2 Perception
Born Leader: You can use born leader as an encounter power.
Group Diplomacy: You grant allies within 10 squares of you a +1 racial bonus to Diplomacy checks.
[/INDENT]

#2
Crimson_Concerto
Mar 30, 2009 1:23:48 Your racial power doesn't work well as an Immediate Reaction. It should either be an Immediate Interrupt or a Free action so that it takes effect before the attack actually completely resolves. Otherwise you get wonky stuff happening like being able to re-roll after you've already benefited from a miss effect...

Other than that problem, the race still looks underpowered. It could definitely use another couple of features...
#3
damnedmage
Mar 30, 2009 9:57:34 Ah, I see your point about the immediate reaction. I'll just change it to a free action like the Elven ability it's based on is.

As for it being underpowered, is it unplayable underpowered, or just slightly underpowered? When designing custom content I try to always be just a hair underpowered to avoid power creep. Power creep bad.

Do you have any suggestions to bring it up to par
#4
Crimson_Concerto
Mar 30, 2009 12:03:49
As for it being underpowered, is it unplayable underpowered, or just slightly underpowered?

It's not totally unplayable, I guess, but it is noticeably weak enough that I would not want to play it.

Do you have any suggestions to bring it up to par

I have no idea what the race's fluff is, so no.
#5
damnedmage
Mar 30, 2009 15:34:22 So I went back and did a side-by-side comparison with the Elf (whom this is modeled from) to see where this is lacking:

Ability Scores: Same
Speed: Qualinesti is Elf -1 Square
Skill Bonuses: Same
Born Leader: Outwardly focused, but the same ability
Group Diplomacy: Borrowed from Half-elf; replaces Group Perception.
Fey-Heritage: Not explicitly listed, but it's the same. I'll explicitly list it above shortly.

In addition, the Elf have two weapon proficiencies and the Wild Step ability; so when compared side by side I definitely see Crimson's point. The Qualinesti more than any other race are fairly industrious in building and roads maintaining. Sure it's all /pretty/ and tree-like architecture, but it's still ultimately not traveling through the woods, and I want to maintain the wild-step ability as separate for the Kagonesti (who will just be using Elf). Ultimately the goal was to create a variant of the elf more focused on diplomacy and party-boosting than sneaking and spotting and traveling through the woods. So how do I mitigate this?

I can put the racial proficiencies back in; that shouldn't harm the race at all. That still leaves the Wild Step feature, which needs replacing with something of similar value. Perhaps a racial Save bonus? +2 to Will? That seems a bit chinsey. Suggestions still welcome!
#6
nazralte
Mar 30, 2009 15:54:57 My suggestion, which probably doesnt help, is to just use the Qualinesti race write-up at dlnexus.com

Main reason I suggest this is for two reasons. First they are generally "OK"ed by some of the DL product writers like Jamie Chambers and Cam Banks. And they also have many other entries for races and classes.
#7
gregt_314
Mar 30, 2009 18:33:53 I'm a big fan of Dragonlance but I don't really see that we need Qualinesti as a race that's distinct and separate from Elf. I'd be quite happy to run Qualinesti, Sylvanesti and Kaganesti (spelling? been a while since I did Dragonlance) as all just Elves, and point out that the flavour inclines them towards different class choices.

Putting that complaint aside, racial abilities that help others rather than yourself aren't terribly wonderful. Racials should be about who you are, not about how you can help your friends - that's what classes are for. The power's otherwise balanced but you'll need a couple of additional minor abilities. Possibly an additional skill gets added to your class skill list, maybe a racial bonus on Nature checks, maybe a +1 untyped damage bonus on all ranged attacks rising to +3 at paragon and +5 at epic.

Plus, Tanis and friends aside, I'm not sure the literature supports Qualinesti as natural leaders, although I'll admit I'm not up on all that 5th Age / Next Generation rubbish.
#8
damnedmage
Mar 30, 2009 21:04:59 Wow, I hadn't even noticed dlnexus has a cam banks writeup on this stuff. Sweet. I'll use those.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 damnedmage Mar 30, 2009 1:05:30	RACIAL TRAITS [INDENT] Average height: 4'5" - 5'1" Average Weight: 75 - 110 lb Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma Size: Medium Speed: 6 squares Vision: Low-light Languages: Common, Elven, choice of one other Skill Bonuses: +2 Diplomacy, +2 Perception Born Leader: You can use born leader as an encounter power. Group Diplomacy: You grant allies within 10 squares of you a +1 racial bonus to Diplomacy checks. [/INDENT]
#2 Crimson_Concerto Mar 30, 2009 1:23:48	Your racial power doesn't work well as an Immediate Reaction. It should either be an Immediate Interrupt or a Free action so that it takes effect before the attack actually completely resolves. Otherwise you get wonky stuff happening like being able to re-roll after you've already benefited from a miss effect... Other than that problem, the race still looks underpowered. It could definitely use another couple of features...
#3 damnedmage Mar 30, 2009 9:57:34	Ah, I see your point about the immediate reaction. I'll just change it to a free action like the Elven ability it's based on is. As for it being underpowered, is it unplayable underpowered, or just slightly underpowered? When designing custom content I try to always be just a hair underpowered to avoid power creep. Power creep bad. Do you have any suggestions to bring it up to par
#4 Crimson_Concerto Mar 30, 2009 12:03:49	As for it being underpowered, is it unplayable underpowered, or just slightly underpowered? It's not totally unplayable, I guess, but it is noticeably weak enough that I would not want to play it. Do you have any suggestions to bring it up to par I have no idea what the race's fluff is, so no.
#5 damnedmage Mar 30, 2009 15:34:22	So I went back and did a side-by-side comparison with the Elf (whom this is modeled from) to see where this is lacking: Ability Scores: Same Speed: Qualinesti is Elf -1 Square Skill Bonuses: Same Born Leader: Outwardly focused, but the same ability Group Diplomacy: Borrowed from Half-elf; replaces Group Perception. Fey-Heritage: Not explicitly listed, but it's the same. I'll explicitly list it above shortly. In addition, the Elf have two weapon proficiencies and the Wild Step ability; so when compared side by side I definitely see Crimson's point. The Qualinesti more than any other race are fairly industrious in building and roads maintaining. Sure it's all /pretty/ and tree-like architecture, but it's still ultimately not traveling through the woods, and I want to maintain the wild-step ability as separate for the Kagonesti (who will just be using Elf). Ultimately the goal was to create a variant of the elf more focused on diplomacy and party-boosting than sneaking and spotting and traveling through the woods. So how do I mitigate this? I can put the racial proficiencies back in; that shouldn't harm the race at all. That still leaves the Wild Step feature, which needs replacing with something of similar value. Perhaps a racial Save bonus? +2 to Will? That seems a bit chinsey. Suggestions still welcome!
#6 nazralte Mar 30, 2009 15:54:57	My suggestion, which probably doesnt help, is to just use the Qualinesti race write-up at dlnexus.com Main reason I suggest this is for two reasons. First they are generally "OK"ed by some of the DL product writers like Jamie Chambers and Cam Banks. And they also have many other entries for races and classes.
#7 gregt_314 Mar 30, 2009 18:33:53	I'm a big fan of Dragonlance but I don't really see that we need Qualinesti as a race that's distinct and separate from Elf. I'd be quite happy to run Qualinesti, Sylvanesti and Kaganesti (spelling? been a while since I did Dragonlance) as all just Elves, and point out that the flavour inclines them towards different class choices. Putting that complaint aside, racial abilities that help others rather than yourself aren't terribly wonderful. Racials should be about who you are, not about how you can help your friends - that's what classes are for. The power's otherwise balanced but you'll need a couple of additional minor abilities. Possibly an additional skill gets added to your class skill list, maybe a racial bonus on Nature checks, maybe a +1 untyped damage bonus on all ranged attacks rising to +3 at paragon and +5 at epic. Plus, Tanis and friends aside, I'm not sure the literature supports Qualinesti as natural leaders, although I'll admit I'm not up on all that 5th Age / Next Generation rubbish.
#8 damnedmage Mar 30, 2009 21:04:59	Wow, I hadn't even noticed dlnexus has a cam banks writeup on this stuff. Sweet. I'll use those.