So here's an idea for a Specialist Wizards mechanic that brings back a legacy concept, the eight spell schools and their opposition schools, but keeps it within the spirit of the 4e design. Unlike the front loading of Specialist wizards of 2nd Edition who couldn't change their status, these are charachters who were apprentices of specialists of the eight philosophical schools of Magecraft, but as their adventuring path unfolds they can choose to continue to hone in on one of the eight philosophies, or turn from their master's myopic vision and embrace a wider view of magic skill.
Here's the general idea, before you can claim the Specialist Epic Destiny you must have fallen each of these steps, Background choice: Apprentice of X + Heroic feat: Learned X= PP X Specialist, PP X Specialist + Paragon feat= ED Master of Arcane Philosophy
or more simply, Someone who has selected the background Conjurer's Apprentice and the Feat Learned Conjurer (prereq Tome of Binding Feature), can choose the PP Specialist of Conjuration, when they select Improved Tome of Binding, they are eligible for the Epic Destiny Master of Arcane Philosophy
Nothing stops a player from making a Conjurer Wizard student meeting a Devil and deciding to become an Invoker story wise, nor does it preclude a selftaught wizard to pick up a lesson from a Gnome illusionist, but only a fully committed, trained from a young age student can hope to join the inner circle of the Eight Masters of Arcane Philosophy
Illusionist's Apprentice: Bluff or Sneak, Ritual Skill Checks +2 Deception rituals, -4 to Warding and Creation rituals
Abjurer's Apprentice: Endurance or Heal, Ritual Skill Checks +2 Warding rituals, -4 to Deception and Travel rituals
Enchanters's Apprentice: Diplomacy or Bluff, +2 to Binding ritual skill checks, -4 to Heal, Divination, Warding rituals
Diviner's Apprentice: Insight or Perception, +2 to Scrying and Divination rituals, -4 to Deception, Travel, and Binding Rituals
Conjurer's Apprentice: +2 to Monster Knowledge checks, +2 to Travel Ritual Skill Checks, -4 to Deception and Diviniation Ritual Skill checks
Transmuter's Apprentice: Athletics or Acrobatics, +2 to Alchemical item skill checks, -4 to Binding, Deception, Diviniation, Scrying, Travel, and Warding Ritual skill checks
Evoker's Apprentice: Arcana, +2 to Detect Magic skill checks, -4 to Ritual or Alchemical checks
Necromancer's Apprentice: Religion or Intimidate, all summoned creatures are undead versions, they count as having the undead origin for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin*
*I think this is a little trick of rules that provides maximum flavor kick for very little mechanical change.
The Necromancy specialist feat could add a resistance to Necrotic and vulnerability to Radiant to all undead summoned creatures, making them useful against undead foes (this avoids the problem of fan favorite wizard reflavoring "make magic missle deal necrotic damage" which depowers the Wizard since more monsters resist necrotic then are vulnerable to it, and also gives the DM a fun little rarer encounter posibility of paladins, clerics, and angels to keep this anti-hero wizard on his toes)
if the feat further changes the damage of summoning powers to be Necrotic it would allow existing feats like Dark Fury, Student of Moil, and a host of Shadar Kai and Revenant feats to be useful, with great synergy in constitution and flavor.
Very cool, this idea should be built upon. The ritual changes are not a big deal, and seem to match up with the schools/opposite schools of earlier edition specialists (except no prohibited spells..but then 4th kinda makes that not really an option)
Assuming that you finish this, it would really be a boon to an old editioner i know, who is crying for school specialization for her wizard in 4th.
*subscribed*
Red Wizard of Thay Human-only wizard PP anyone? Which, ofcourse, almost requires a Thayan Knight fighter PP.
Red Wizard of Thay Human-only wizard PP anyone? Which, ofcourse, almost requires a Thayan Knight fighter PP.
i wish
But yeah, who wants to try making the Heroic Tier feats?
Although it's pretty obvious I'll list what I think the required feature/feat would have to be for each feat (or maybe only the paragon path would have the requirement):
Learned Conjurer = Tome of Binding
Learned Diviner = Tome of Readiness
Learned Evoker = Wand of Accuracy
Learned Enchanter = Orb of Control
Learned Illusionist = Orb of Illusion
Learned Abjurer = Staff of Defense
Learned Transmuter = Alchemist
Learned Necromancer = ???????
Homebrew feature, Staff of Necromancy perhaps? What would be an unbroken Summoning buffer that adds Necrotic damage to summoned creatures attacks? Or would the previous idea of additional resistances gained to Necrotic damage be better? Former may be too powerful, latter may be too specific/too defensive to be any fun.
One idea I have for them is that they should be very "Metamagical" the attacks, features, action points etc. sould add effects to their existing powers that bend them more to the ideas of their school. Also would a further feat/feature that powers their background ritual bonus up to +4 be too much? Or perhaps that's not even that necessary . . .
Staff of Necromany: A staff of necromancy grants you a +1 bonus to attack with Wizard attack powers that target Fortitude. In addition, once per encounter you can use the Staff of Necromancy power. Special: You qualify for the benefits listed in powers under the Tome of Binding line (ie- Tomebound Ooze)
Staff of Necromancy - Staff of Necromancy power
This form of mastery is useful for summoner wizards for its obvious benefits to their summoned creatures.
Encounter * Implement
Free Action, Personal
Effect: Your summoned creatures' gain resistance necrotic, and vulnerability radiant. In addition, creatures you have summoned deal damage that is half necrotic, and gain a bonus to damage rolls in the form of necrotic damage equal to your Constitution modifier to the damage roll of attacks made before the end of your next turn.
Requirement: You must wield your staff.
I also think the Transmuter needing Alchemist instead of a Wizard feature be remedied with a
Transmuter's Wand: A transmuter's wand aids you by enabling small changes to the outcomes of situations through transmutational change. You gain the Feature powers transmute energy and substance trick.
Substance Trick - Wizard Feature Power
You twiddle your wand and alter the flows of fate through impromptu transmutations.
Daily*Implement
Immediate Interrupt, Personal
Requirement: You must be wielding your wand to benefit from this feature power. Trigger: You fail a skill check. Effect: You reroll the skill check you just made and keep the higher of the two results.
Transmute Energy - Wizard Feature Power
You twiddle your wand and alter the flows of fate through impromptu transmutations.
Encounter * Implement
Free Action, Personal
Trigger: You succeed on an attack roll. Special: Just before rolling damage, you select the power type into which you change the triggering attack. Effect: You may change the damage type of your powers to one damage type from the following list: Acid, Cold, Fire, Thunder, or Force.
and with the Staff of Necro above makes 2 paths for each implement (orbs, wands, tomes, and staves) thus covering all schools.
Generally the 4E Wizard seems to be an "Abujerer" with a bit of Evoker and Diviner thrown in.
The Enchantment and Illusionist schools have been all but eliminated, moved over to the Warlock and Bard and the paragon paths of the Gnome.
If you want to be a specialist Evoker, then you choose the Sorcerer as a class.
Necromancy as an PC archetype has been enitrely eliminated as an idea. There have been more than some hints that eventually they'll move it over to a class of its own in the "Shadow" Power Source.
Anyway, the whole idea of the many schools of magic have all but been eliminated from 4E and a number of the schools just simply cannot be duplicated using the powers available to the PC wizard.
Since two of you seem to be in a deep discussion about this, I don't want to be a downer, but...
Well, this that you mention is a downer, but a good reminder so the sting of being one should at least be diminished for that reason.
Hmm, I still want to make it work..somehow, even if not following the same formula of Wizard
My new idea is to make it more of "Arcane Specialist" rather than make it only wizards. I am thinking that there is a quick and easy way to differentiate spells too to make the powers also get something from the Arcane Specialist's path, rather than just rituals.
There are eight schools, and 5 arcane classes. One, the swordmage will only have a chance of being a transmuter, and the rest are open to one to three different class builds from the Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock, and Wizard choices.
Feat, and my ideas for requirements to take it.
Learned Abjurer = Staff of Defense Wizard.
Learned Conjurer = Tome of Binding Wizard, or Cosmic Sorcerer
Learned Diviner = Tome of Readiness Wizard, or Bard.
Learned Enchanter = Orb of Imposition Wizard, or Virtue of Valor Bard
Learned Evoker = Wand of Accuracy Wizard, or Storm/Dragon Sorcerer
Learned Illusionist = Orb of Illusion Wizard, or Virtue of Prescience/Cunning Bard, or Fey Pact/Star Pact Warlock
Learned Transmuter = Alchemist feat and any Arcane class.
Learned Necromancer = Dark pact/Infernal pact Warlock, or Staff of Necromancy Wizard
Note: the Wild Magic Sorcerer is left off my list deliberately, this doesn't suggest mastery at all to me. Vestige Pact I am also thinking should be left optionless for these specialization feats.
Treat the feats like Style feats too. Giving a bonus on the certain powers with some relation to the specialization.
For example, Illusionist's Apprentice background characters need this feat to be eligible for the Paragon path Illusion Specialist:
Learned Illusionist: Prerequisite: One of the following class features: Orb of Deception, Virtue of Prescience, Virtue of Cunning, Fey Pact, or Star Pact. Benefit: You gain a +2 feat bonus in one of the associated skills of your choice. Additionally, you gain the specified bonus when using an associated power.
Associated Skills: Bluff, Sneak.
Associated Powers: All powers containing the Illusion keyword gain a +1 bonus to damage. Eldritch Blast (augments to target Will instead of Ref and deal psychic damage instead of normal), Misdirected Mark (augments to target Will instead of Ref and deal psychic damage instead of normal), Phantom Bolt (augments to slide the target 2 squares instead of 1).
Learned Evoker: Prerequisite: One of the following class features: Wand of Accuracy, Storm Magic, or Dragon Magic. Benefit: You gain a +2 feat bonus in the associated skill. Additionally, you gain the specified bonus when using an associated power.
Associated Skills: Arcana
Associated Powers: All powers containing the selected keyword gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls of that type. Select from the following: cold, fire, lightning, thunder, or force.
Wizards add Wave of Force to the list of available at-will powers, Storm Sorcerers add Lightning Splash to the list of available at-will powers, Dragon Frost (gains the following line: Special: This power can also be used as a melee opportunity attack. This power deals 1d10 + Charisma modifier cold damage and pushes the target 1 square when this hits as an opportunity attack.
Wave of Force
Your powerful mind creates waves of force from your position which batter nearby foes.
At-will * Arcane, Force, Implement
Standard Action, Close Burst 3
Intelligence vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d8 + Intelligence modifier force damage.
Thunder Splash
You throw a ball of energy that bathes the area in a splash of thunder as you move like lightning.
Standard Action, Area Burst 1 within 10
Charisma vs Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Charisma modifier thunder damage
Before or after the attack you shift 2 squares.
Since two of you seem to be in a deep discussion about this, I don't want to be a downer, but...
Generally the 4E Wizard seems to be an "Abujerer" with a bit of Evoker and Diviner thrown in.
The Enchantment and Illusionist schools have been all but eliminated, moved over to the Warlock and Bard and the paragon paths of the Gnome.
If you want to be a specialist Evoker, then you choose the Sorcerer as a class.
Necromancy as an PC archetype has been enitrely eliminated as an idea. There have been more than some hints that eventually they'll move it over to a class of its own in the "Shadow" Power Source.
Anyway, the whole idea of the many schools of magic have all but been eliminated from 4E and a number of the schools just simply cannot be duplicated using the powers available to the PC wizard.
I agree and disagree with your statement that the schools or dead. You are right the 4E wizard seems to be and abjurer, evoker for the most part. However you can still see the schools prevailed alot in 4E still.
Tome of Summoning (this is surely a conjurer/summoner build).
Orb of Deception (built around illusion based powers, I think that would be an illusionist).
Walls in previous editions were the realm of transmuters.
Just because they don't come out and write it in big bold letters doesn't mean its there. I hate the idea of Necromancer being is own class, sorry but its a school of magic in my book. Besides they already came up with a bunch of necromantic themed powers for various classes in one of the dragon magazines.
I say continue on, btw I say Transmuters should use staves....just an oppinion.
I wrote the above post letting a variety of classes get into specialization, so I am interested to know what reactions there are to that?
Of course..I realize its heresy (considering the tradition of D&D to let Wizards be the only ones to do so), but is it unacceptable heresy? I see it as the best way to represent that some classes are as good at certain schools as a wizard (at least under 4th interpretation). Basically, I wanna stretch it to make it work.
Actually something I had thought of myself. The Wizard was originally really the only true Arcane class, and my original idea to adhere to the old rule of "no multiclassing" was to have each school of magic be a multiclass, like the spellscarred, however it felt a little overly constricting. Basically "feat tax" would make it necessary for an Arcane character maintain a relatively devoted build making it difficult to be a fighter/diviner or other more ridiculous suggestion. As for breaking it down between class features especially with Warlock, I think people's desire to have a narratively consistent character is enough, and if they do want to have a Virtue of Valor Diviner, whatevs. Since a hybrid Warlock Wizard might not have Orb of Control but still enough spells to make him a great Enchanter I give the following requisites
Learned Enchanter: Orb of Control Feature and or, Bard/Warlock
Learned Evoker: Wand of Accuracy feature and or, Sorcerer/Sword Mage
Learned Abjurer: Staff of Defense feature and or Sword Mage/Artificer
Learned Transmuter: "Wand of Transmutation" feature and or Artificer/Sorcerer
Learned Diviner: Tome of Readiness feature and or Bard/Warlock
Learned Conjurer: Tome of Summoning feature and or Warlock (flavorwise the warlock is summoning his patrons offstage to learn more spells, PP give him an ability to call on one servent of his patron a day)
Learned Necromancer: Staff/Tome/Dagger of Necromancy feature and or Sorcerer/Warlock
Learned Illusionist: Orb of Illusion feature and or Bard/Warlock
The Origin of the Eight Arcane Philosophers
Neophyte! Is that a star of Corellon around your neck? I didn't realize you bought into that silly devotion to Astral gods. If you did I would thought as an aspiring specialist you would pray to Ioun, as she is the true model of us Wizards who feel deep study is preferable to those dilletantes who fling whatever spell they come across around a room. Let me tell you again of how the Eight Philosophies were born.
Corellon's greatest contribution to the Dawn war was sealing off a nexus of elemental energy that seeped into the natural world. The Arcane magic of creation the Primordials that had kept the world a mess of writhing cataclyms of forms and new creations was barred on two sides, that of the Elemental chaos and the natural world, and in turn it took on characteristics of both. This center of magical force became a vision of this world, infused with the elemental magics of the one that had created it. It did not look as it does now, but through the efforts of Corellon's pupils the fey spirits, echoes of the primal spirits, set about creating an order to the chaos. Containing neither the regularity of the natural world's sun, but neither the aimless wandering of the Primordials orbs of flames, the first demenses were controlled by powerful fey who ordered the seasons and celestial bodies themselves. Corellon settled his new creation, the Elves, in this realm and gave them the special task of learning the secrets of magic so as to be sure the Feywild would buffer against the entropy of the Plane Below.
Many believe it was agreed by a concil of Gods that arcane magic should not be practiced within the natural world, since it was so closely linked to the Primorials, and they wished Corellon to make sure it's practice never spread outside of the Feywild. Although others say it was a desire of the lords of the Feywild to keep those secrets to themselves to subjugate the races who were begining to awake in the world.
For centuries before the rise of Bael Turath and Arkhosia Elves kept magic secret within the feywild and used it to impress barbaric tribes and have them worshiped as gods, spirits, and demons of the natural world. However Elves had less control of Arcane magic than the realized. Humans, Halflings, and Dragonborn often discovered a natural talent for magic, and the tribes that had Druidic loremasters trained some students in Arcane magic learned from Fey allies, the earliest of the Spellsingers or Bards. Other mortals bound themselves in service to Archfey who were not afraid of breaking the custom of teaching arcane secrets to mortals since the Fey kingdoms were so loosely organized, and they felt secure in the knowledge these mortals relied on them completely for their abilities.
As more secrets got out more mortals thirsted for the power of Arcane magic and resorted to any means possible to acquire it. The proud empire of Arkhosia seeking to distance itself from reliance on the Dragons for arcane force sought to breed Dragonblood sorcerers, an impercise science, but not nearly as dangerous as the method of the fledgling nation of Bael Turath who began making pacts with Devils and Far Realmers for new insight into the process of commanding the fabric of reality.
Fearing that mortals lust for power would cause them to rip to dangerously into the fabric of the natural world and give footholds to primordials and other fouler forces, a servent of Ioun, (in some sources a Halfling cleric, in some an angel of Tomes, in some one of those Bards) decided to pass on Elven knowledge of controlling Arcane power through the intellect to mortals. Disguised as a student she learned from master wizards of the three factions of the Elven empire. Those most closely adhering to the God of magic and art, she discovered the secrets of the wand and of masterfully directing and controlling pure magical energy. Known as the first magical art and practiced even by their swordsmen she penned it's philosophy as the first Spellbook of Evocation. From those elves that worshiped the goddess of love and night she first learned the value of orbs in controlling and manipulating minds and bending people to the will of the caster, these she wrote down in the First Spellbook of Enchantment. Traveling to the darkest corners of Elven empire she encountered the people of Lolth and uneasily she learned how darkness shrouded their magic and grew wary of their desire to maniplate and deceive. Leaving that realm she authored the First Spellbook of Illusion.
Fearing reprisal from the Elves, the servent kept the books deep within a monastery of Ioun, and taught them theoretically and not in practice to new students. However after the sundering of the Elves into the three races, it seemed they had lost their influence on the world, and the Acolytes of the monastery, with these spellbooks in hand began to teach the intellectual schools of magic. Humans took most quickly to the study than the other mortals, yet still the warlocks of Bael Turath nervous about their power kept Wizardly study fragmented, which turned out to be quite easy given the natural paranoia and secrecy wizardly minds inately had. Locked in towers and practicing seperately the schools evolved not as colleges, but as commentators copied and tranfered spellbooks between each other and wrote notes and compared experiments with each other. It was not long before it was found that the Elves were not the sole masters of magic they believed. The Monastery of Ioun, who had unwittingly become a college of Wizards with only a small number of clerics on hand developed the First Spellbook of Divination. A dwarf exiled from his hold for studying the untrustworthy secrets of Arcane magic authored his own experiments on enslaving elemental creatures, an idea born out of his desire for revenge for his own people's bondage. This began to circulate and became the First Spellbook of Conjuring. This was a long process and saw the rise and fall of Arkhosia and Bael Turath.
Under the Aegis of the Lords of Nerath who had a higher opinion of magic controlled by the rational mind, it was agreed to summon the first University of Arcane study and to appoint a circle of Arcane philosophers. At it's first council it was agreed that two more fledgling schools were worthy of further study, and the Seven Masters were appointed welcoming the Schools of Transmutation and Abjuration. Known as the Golden Age of Wizardly study many of the great spells were inented during this era and Wizard kings and lords were held in high regard and without the suspicion it is today. That was until the day a wizened old mage hailing from beyond the Frostfell, approached the circle claiming that he had found a way to cheat death through the Arcane control over the forces of Shadow. Alas, my apprentice, hear I must leave off. Another day I shall tell you of the rise of the Eighth school, the school of Necromancy, and how it caused the fall of the Arcane University, and some say Nerath itself.
However I will tell you young one, that I long to see Mages treated like the days of old. Before the Seven towers fell, and learning and innovation so bright. The University exists still, if only hidden and invisible. I'm getting old, soon you will be sent out into the world. Perhaps you will come across one of the descendents of the Circle of Eight, learn from them, who knows, you're showing such promise maybe even take on their title . . . aww but it grows late and I must retire to the study, I must learn what I can before I wash up to the shores of Hevastar and am accepted to Ioun's service.
As for the numbers, leave them to me! (not really, could use some help...but as you say you have more the penchant for flavor, then I am fine with you writing such things, whilst I think on mechanics)
Stay tuned, as the playtesting has begun for such specialists in my game. Starting with the all-too-classic Evoker. *rubs hands together*
@ALL
New Proposal for Learned Evoker feat (simpler and more accurate to the theme I think). Points of unsurety are clearly marked with a question mark..
Learned Evoker
Prerequisite: Wand of Accuracy feature and or, Sorcerer/Sword Mage.
Benefit: You gain a +2 feat bonus to Arcana checks.[?]
When using an implement (if Wizard or Sorcerer: wand only[?]) while attacking with a power associated with this feat, you can score a critical hit on a roll of 19-20.[?]
Associated Powers: Greenflame Blade[?], Scorching Burst[?], Arcing Fire[?]
Alternatively the benefit might be: +2 Arcana checks. Whenever you hit an enemy while wielding an implement (wand if Wizard or Sorcerer, light blade if Sword Mage) with an associated power, you also knock the target prone.
Thoughts and Questions for discussion: I personally think the associated powers should be fire-based for the evoker, but can't decide if all three should be single target (since its increased crit range) or if its ok to leave in Scorching Burst (an AoE attack, while Greenflame and Arcing Fire are single target) since the attacker still must roll that crit with the attack roll on each target anyways. Giving more chances for crits on an AoE to wizard PCs only just seems wrong...but then what to do - make all three powers AoE powers and give up the fire theme (replace Greenflame with Sword Burst; and Arcing Fire with Blazing Starfall)? give up the fire theme anyways and just go with single target powers only (replace Scorching Burst with Magic Missile)? leave it alone...? something else (like what I wrote in post #18 )?? [grrrr!]
Also, what about the implement requirements: Too much? Omit the skill bonus and generic benefit in favor of something more specific and tailored to each power; much like Precision Ambush Style (P.A.S.)? ie- I tried to use lesser style feats as my guide, but I am wondering if it be better to follow P.A.S.'s format of "x power (wizard) gains A benefit; y power (sorcerer) gains B benefit; z power (swordmage) gains C benefit" which is decidedly more complicated to write; requiring augments for three powers, but gets around the specificity that lesser style feats possess regarding what you you wield when you use the associated power while taking out the doubled up skill bonus (the Evoker background already grants either training in, or a flat +2 to Arcana).
Notice I put an alternative benefit in italics: I initially thought no way should there be a crit range increase on the attacks (too Striker-y), but then I thought 'what the hell: it IS an evoker after all..'. So the question is: is Prone less likely to cause issues and worth rewriting to use that effect? - one thing to note is that I thought it a bad idea to use knocking Prone since this might screw up a combination of Arcing Fire+Action Point+any ranged attack, since it would render the target prone on the first hit and thus the second attack would take a -2 penalty against the prone target. This would, however, be a boon to any swordmages using Greenflame (its a melee).
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@MacEochaid
Questions...
1. Dagger of Necromancy- Does this intend to grant a wizard the ability to use dagger implements without a feat, requiring a feat, or was this merely an oversight?
2. Where you mention Alchemical skill checks in the backgrounds, is that meant to be Alchemical attack rolls, since none of the Alchemy formulas require checks or skill checks? Or is there another skill check you are referring to in relation to Alchemical items I might be unaware of? There are mentions of both "Alchemical checks" and "Alchemical skill checks".
The alchemy is definitely an oversight, a bonus to attack rolls would be overpowered for a background benefit, just since "creation" would be the most fitting set of rituals for transmuters, but also is too necessary for universal spells and ALSO would be a set of rituals that aren't effected by skill checks. How about being able to select both ritual caster and alchemist, but with the minuses to ritual skill checks as stated earlier?
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I feel the limit to wands is unnecessary, since the feat is open to classes without wands, and a wizard who wants to spend his feats getting a second implement mastery should be considered to be an evoker who has mastered evocations through tomes or orbs as well. The other weird thing about the bump to arcana is that didn't the wizard already get this due to his background?
+2 Arcana would most likely help with rituals more than anything, and the Evoker's trade off is less adept at rituals while better at flinging energy. Perhaps Endurance?
Fireball was every Evokers favorite back in the day, but I never got the sense that Evokers were specificaly fire based. I find nothing wrong with your choices of attack however.