http://www.scribd.com/doc/17268706/4e-Tyrant-Class-
That's the link to the original version, but I'll probably update it after I get some feedback. Here's the basics, for those who don't want to read the whole file.
Tyrant
Class Traits
Role: Controller.
Power Source: Martial
Key Abilities: Charisma, Strength, Intelligence
Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide, Chainmail, Scale, Light Shield, Heavy Shield
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee, Simple Ranged
Implements: Favored Weapon
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per level gained: 5
Healing Surges/day: 7 + Constitution modifier.
Trained Skills: Intimidate. From the list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level:
Class Skills: Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Insight (Wis), History (Int), Thievery (Dex), Religion (Int), Streetwise (Cha).
Power Source: Martial
Key Abilities: Charisma, Strength, Intelligence
Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide, Chainmail, Scale, Light Shield, Heavy Shield
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee, Simple Ranged
Implements: Favored Weapon
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score
Hit Points per level gained: 5
Healing Surges/day: 7 + Constitution modifier.
Trained Skills: Intimidate. From the list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level:
Class Skills: Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Insight (Wis), History (Int), Thievery (Dex), Religion (Int), Streetwise (Cha).
Personally, I'd comment, but my PoS PC won't let me open the page.
I'm only about half-way through it right now, but so far I like it. I like the flavor, and I like the sort of anti-warlord feel it has to it, walking the controller/leader line kinda closely.
Enticing Presence - I'm commenting as I go along here, so bear with me if I'm missing something. What is the point of this feature? Yes, the enemy grants combat advantage, but the enemy now has a nice cushion of temperary HP. And the combat advantage ends as soon as it becomes useful- when you don't have that temp HP to get rid of.
I'm only about half-way through it right now, but so far I like it. I like the flavor, and I like the sort of anti-warlord feel it has to it, walking the controller/leader line kinda closely.
Enticing Presence: Well, notice it says "each adjacent creature", so it also provides temp HP to your allies as well as your enemies. The idea behind it is essentially to give a more leader-like option that can give combat advantage to a Rogue, and his sneak attack would... okay, so I guess it's not a very good feature.
I guess they can't all be good, right? Like, compare a Tempest Fighter to a Battlerager, or a Starlock to an Infernalock... this feature would basically be "Enticing Presence is to Manipulating Presence as Divine Challenge is to Combat Superiority". :D
I personally find races or low (1-3) level classes a lot easier to PEACH.
That said:
First, the flavor. While I understand the concept of the "anti-Warlord," and respect the detail you've put into the fluff, any character I created would not willingly adventure with such a party member. D&D, like any other hobby, already has its share of bossy, power-hungry jerks - do we really need a character class that encourages this behavior, and is, frankly, antithetical to the spirit of cooperative gaming? Yes, there are times when you will have to fireball the fighter surrounded by wights, or use push powers on the rogue to help him escape of a damaging aura, but these should be communicated and agreed upon by party members out of game. You don't need entire powers designed around this sort of thing.
Cha and Str as main stats. Good. Problem is your NADs will likely suffer, except Ref (assuming you pump Dex, as Int is useless).
Your armor proficiencies are nearly as good as they come, and you use the Leader HP progression, which is amazing for a Controller. I guess you won't ever be attacked? Favored Weapon is a patch for MIDness, but it works.
Intimidate should be on the trained skill list, otherwise it creates wonky interactions with multiclassing.
Your skills: Athetics and Intimidate are good. Bluff is good. Otherwise, very lackluster. Endurance won't come up often, Heal DCs are easy to make and often unneeded, and your only knowledges are History and Religion, both in a dump stat (and Religion doesn't even make sense fluff-wise). I can understand not having Diplomacy, but why no Streetwise? Even the Fighter gets it! Either Insight or Perception would be good to round out the list (yes, I know everyone and their mother takes these. I don't care.) and Thievery inspires a number of amusing applications.
Focused Leader: Use your implement attacks while flanking. Not the greatest class feature, but it works.
The Presences: First of all, they only trigger when you use a Psychic power, and from my brief scan of the first level powers I can see a perfectly good build without any Psychic powers, none of which are at-will to begin with. A class feature that forces you to take certain powers in order for it to do anything is not a good feature. Because they come up so sparingly, it's not easy to assess balance, but I'll assume that if the barbarian's Rage enhancers (Rages being all dailies) are fine, these are too.
Enticing Presence: Why would I want to give my enemies more HP? Also, does the enemy gain HP before or after the damage roll? Either I'm ranged and using implements, in which case I don't want to be standing next to my allies, or I'm in melee, in which case I want to be flanking. While it has Leaderish applications, the fact that it relies on a hit, can't revive dying allies, and may require suboptimal use of the Psychic power needed to trigger it makes it the worst feature of the bunch.
Intimidating Presence: All of your Psychic powers just gained weaken on a hit. Nice. Who cares that it doesn't work against multiattacks?
Manipulative Presence: So it screws over teleporters. I guess that's good? An adjacent enemy will try to shift 90% of the time anyway, and even if you do combo it with a forced movement power, it's Cha damage. You know who else does Cha damage? Paladins. That doesn't mean their mark is good. And on top of that, it hits your allies as well - why?
Ruthless Presence: Ooh, a bonus allies all over the battlefield. Except that it's damage...equal to 1/2 your Str mod...against enemies adjacent to you. Not so great. Still quite serviceable, though BBEGs will likely laugh it off. Better with a Ranger or some other character with a large number of attacks (or a Warlord, amusingly enough).
Now's the time to talk about attributes again, I guess. The vast majority of your powers, including all first-level Dailies, are completely Cha-based, with a few that use Str to attack. Why give the Tyrant the Paladin's problem? Just make Cha the attack stat, have some builds use Str for power riders (Intimidating and Ruthless) and others use Cha (Enticing and Manipulative). Also, why are some of your attacks melee touch with neither the Weapon nor Implement keyword? Are you trying to miss?
"Choose one weapon with which you are Proficient. You may add [...]"
"When you replace a Favored Weapon you would not normally be proficient with, you are no longer proficient with that weapon."
This second line doesn't make any sense in light of the first.
Now we get to the class's defining feature:
Subjugating Word
You threaten an enemy so severely that it loses the will to oppose you, and agrees to help.
Encounter ◊ Martial, Charm
Special: You may use this power twice per encounter but only once per round. At 16th level you can use this power thrice per encounter.
Minor Action * Close Burst 5 (10 at 11th level, 15 at 21st level)
Target: One enemy who can see and hear you.
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: Until the end of your next turn, the target is an enemy convert. The target counts as an ally for the purposes of flanking and for powers which target allies. Enemy converts cannot attack you or your allies, but will also not necessarily attack its former allies. If you or one of your allies attacks an enemy convert, the effect ends after that attack has been resolved.
HOLY GODS 2x STUNLOCK/ENCOUNTER AS A MINOR. AT 1ST LEVEL.I don't care about the rest of the power. It makes the rest of the class make more sense, that's for sure, and will probably involve some creative strategizing on par with the Shaman to utterly break some combination of powers. But right now I'm only seeing 2x STUNLOCK/ENCOUNTER AS A MINOR AT 1ST LEVEL. Sure, the enemy can still move and use (non-attacking) minor actions, it won't work on blind/deaf monsters like oozes, its usefulness is significantly limited the more monsters there are on the field, and in fairness it doesn't get any to-hit bonuses. But still. Cha vs. Will, thank you for playing sir, now stand around and give my allies a free turn.
- Brute threatening to OA your wizard after a charge? Subjugating Word.
- Controller spamming daze or slow on your fighter every round? Subjugating Word.
- Enemy have a nasty reaction power? Subjugating Word, then whack him.
- Dragon close to using Bloodied Breath? Subjugating Word, then pile on without fear.
- Leader need a turn to mass heal the party without getting area bursted? ...you get the idea.
I think that's enough feedback for now. To improve the class further, consider carefully which powers are using Cha, which want Str, which are melee based and which are ranged based. Then try to come up with some cohesive builds based around Presences, weapon choices, and the like.
Is it really that hard to click a button?
Should I just go ahead and post parts of it on here as a preview?
it isn't that hard; it is more of a question of manners. If you don't take enough time to put the in your post then I don't see why I should take the time to critique it. Then factor in that you might have 100+ people viewing your post. If we each put up with a little hassle, well altogether that adds up to a lot of hassle.
Dominating Presence
Tyrants control the flow of battle using the force of their presence on the battlefield. Each Tyrant, however, has a unique style of command. Choose one of the following benefits.
Enticing Presence: Once per encounter as a standard action, you may make a Charisma attack vs. Will against a bloodied enemy within 5 squares who can see and hear you. If the attack hits, if it uses a standard action to attack on its next turn, you may choose which power it uses, and the target of the attack (the target will not attack its allies unless animosity exists between them).
Intimidating Presence: Once per round, when an enemy that you've hit with a power with the Fear or Charm Keyword since your last turn who can see and hear you hits you or an ally within 5 squares with an attack, you may make a Charisma attack vs. Will as an immediate Interrupt. If that attack hits, the target is weakened for the triggering attack.
Manipulative Presence: When you or an ally you can see spends an action point, you may slide each ally and enemy convert within 5 squares who can see and hear you 1 square after the extra action has been resolved.
Ruthless Presence: Once per round as a minor action, you may make a Charisma attack vs. Will against one bloodied enemy you can see. If it hits, one ally of your choice within 5 squares who can see and hear you may add your Strength modifier to their next damage roll against that enemy.
If I were to try something like this, I go ahead and make a "noble" or "rabble-rouser" character, and give him lots of soldiers as minions he can direct into battle. You'd have to be very careful about not being too much of a meatshield (and thus slip into defender territory) and to not be too much of a buffer, as to not be a leader.
This is just a warlord who's an *******. He's not a controller, he's just a leader who likes to be a jerk and can't heal.
I hate to break it to you, but that's basically what a controller does. He denies options to the enemy and ruins their strategies.
I hate to break it to you, but that's basically what a controller does. He denies options to the enemy and ruins their strategies.
Exactly. :D A Controller's JOB is to be a douchebag and go like, "Aw, you wanna melee with my buds over here? TOO BAD!" *Storm Pillars a narrow tunnel!* or "Aw, are you wasting all your attacks on the fighter? SUCK IT UP, *****!" *drops a zone of DT*
This is just a warlord who's an *******. He's not a controller, he's just a leader who likes to be a jerk and can't heal.
If I were to try something like this, I go ahead and make a "noble" or "rabble-rouser" character, and give him lots of soldiers as minions he can direct into battle. You'd have to be very careful about not being too much of a meatshield (and thus slip into defender territory) and to not be too much of a buffer, as to not be a leader.
Actually, though, I was considering a "summoning" build, but I'd use animals instead of soldiers (the idea being that the guy carries a bunch of trained attack dogs with him, and calls them into battle when needed).