4E: Parry/Counterspell - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

4E: Parry/Counterspell

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Tenzhi
Jun 13, 2008 23:15:01 Just a thought I was toying with. It could be a general rule or a feat. And it's as simple as this:

When attacked, if you have a power available with the same damage type as the attack being directed at you, you can spend an action point and immediately use that power to attempt to counter the one being directed at you with an opposed attack check.
#2
epochgames
Jun 14, 2008 2:33:39 As I continue to pour over the books and trying to understand just exactly what the developers were trying to accomplish in the ways of balance, I'd think this would make a good feat.
#3
DoomDuck
Jun 14, 2008 11:43:09 I like it!

Rather than damage type, maybe use the Keywords system. It probably won't make a big difference, but this way you're using a system thats already pretty well codified, in case of any ambiguities.

One issue I see, potentially, is that a mage could use an At-Will power like ray of frost to counter a daily frost power @ level 30. There may need to be some relative power rules for countering.

~DD
#4
eldritch_lord
Jun 14, 2008 13:38:59
I like it!

Rather than damage type, maybe use the Keywords system. It probably won't make a big difference, but this way you're using a system thats already pretty well codified, in case of any ambiguities.

Agreed. If you go with damage types, then you wouldn't be able to counter non-damaging powers, such as ones that only caused fear and such.

One issue I see, potentially, is that a mage could use an At-Will power like ray of frost to counter a daily frost power @ level 30. There may need to be some relative power rules for countering.

That's easy. Just adapt the Improved Counterspell rules from 3e--Any power used to counter must be of a level equal to or higher than the power to be countered--and add that you can only counter a daily with a daily and an encounter with a daily or an encounter.

Otherwise, I like it, and will probably be using something like this in my games.
#5
kenji508
Jun 17, 2008 12:03:00 I could see counterspell being a good encounter ability, parry isnt realy needed. Basic parry's are covered by AC, while more skilled ones are defensive abilitys already in classes
#6
Tenzhi
Jun 18, 2008 3:17:50
I could see counterspell being a good encounter ability, parry isnt realy needed. Basic parry's are covered by AC, while more skilled ones are defensive abilitys already in classes

The only reason I even put it in the title is because while it started as a nod to 3E's counterspell ability, it basically ended up as a "Counter-power" ability, which includes martial powers. What makes a "parry" of this nature differ from a general miss (which, for spells, is also already covered by the various defenses), is that a "parry" completely counteracts the power in question. That is to say that many powers still have effects for when they miss, but countering them in this fashion would completely nullify them.

Basing it off of keywords as DoomDuck suggested is probably a good idea. As is the stipulation that an At-Will can only counter an At-Will, an Encounter can counter either another Encounter or an At-Will, and a Daily can counter any of the three. It might also be best to limit counters to powers of the same source...

And EpochGames is probably right to suggest that it would be better as a feat than a general rule. It might be too much otherwise.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Tenzhi Jun 13, 2008 23:15:01	Just a thought I was toying with. It could be a general rule or a feat. And it's as simple as this: When attacked, if you have a power available with the same damage type as the attack being directed at you, you can spend an action point and immediately use that power to attempt to counter the one being directed at you with an opposed attack check.
#2 epochgames Jun 14, 2008 2:33:39	As I continue to pour over the books and trying to understand just exactly what the developers were trying to accomplish in the ways of balance, I'd think this would make a good feat.
#3 DoomDuck Jun 14, 2008 11:43:09	I like it! Rather than damage type, maybe use the Keywords system. It probably won't make a big difference, but this way you're using a system thats already pretty well codified, in case of any ambiguities. One issue I see, potentially, is that a mage could use an At-Will power like ray of frost to counter a daily frost power @ level 30. There may need to be some relative power rules for countering. ~DD
#4 eldritch_lord Jun 14, 2008 13:38:59	I like it! Rather than damage type, maybe use the Keywords system. It probably won't make a big difference, but this way you're using a system thats already pretty well codified, in case of any ambiguities. Agreed. If you go with damage types, then you wouldn't be able to counter non-damaging powers, such as ones that only caused fear and such. One issue I see, potentially, is that a mage could use an At-Will power like ray of frost to counter a daily frost power @ level 30. There may need to be some relative power rules for countering. That's easy. Just adapt the Improved Counterspell rules from 3e--Any power used to counter must be of a level equal to or higher than the power to be countered--and add that you can only counter a daily with a daily and an encounter with a daily or an encounter. Otherwise, I like it, and will probably be using something like this in my games.
#5 kenji508 Jun 17, 2008 12:03:00	I could see counterspell being a good encounter ability, parry isnt realy needed. Basic parry's are covered by AC, while more skilled ones are defensive abilitys already in classes
#6 Tenzhi Jun 18, 2008 3:17:50	I could see counterspell being a good encounter ability, parry isnt realy needed. Basic parry's are covered by AC, while more skilled ones are defensive abilitys already in classes The only reason I even put it in the title is because while it started as a nod to 3E's counterspell ability, it basically ended up as a "Counter-power" ability, which includes martial powers. What makes a "parry" of this nature differ from a general miss (which, for spells, is also already covered by the various defenses), is that a "parry" completely counteracts the power in question. That is to say that many powers still have effects for when they miss, but countering them in this fashion would completely nullify them. Basing it off of keywords as DoomDuck suggested is probably a good idea. As is the stipulation that an At-Will can only counter an At-Will, an Encounter can counter either another Encounter or an At-Will, and a Daily can counter any of the three. It might also be best to limit counters to powers of the same source... And EpochGames is probably right to suggest that it would be better as a feat than a general rule. It might be too much otherwise.