Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Mist-Bound Dec 24, 2011 2:45:14	As everyone knows, 4e attracted a lot of negative comparisons to World of Warcraft when it came out, and it continues to do so until this day. Having managed to get my hands on a copy of "World of Warcraft: The RPG", a tabletop RPG version of the setting using the D20 rules produced by White Wolf under their "Sword & Sorcery Studios" lable, it has just been tickling me to try and poke my nose at all those comparisons by actually converting 4e classic style versions of the various WoWarcraft races, using their official D20 writeups. The thing is, I don't have any idea how to make a balanced 4e race, so I was wondering if I could get anyone to give me a hand with doing this? I will, of course, post up the D20 profiles here if there's any interest in this. Edit: Due to suggestions by Rampant, I will now post the latest versions of the 4e profiles here. Pretty much all of these were suggested by NB_NMare, and he was of the opinion that most/all of the Alliance races would work better as sub-races of existing 4e races. In fact, Rampant was the only one besides NB_Nmare to give a profile; he did the Troll, below. Troll "Cho' call, mon?" Average Height: 7' Average Weight: 200 pounds Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution or Wisdom Size: Medium Speed: 6 Vision: Lowlight  Languages: Common and Low Common (in a generic 4e game, this would be replaced with Giant, the generic language shared by bestial demihumans such as Orcs, Trolls and Goblins). Skill Bonus: +2 Acrobatics, +2 Nature Troll Healing: Your healing surge value increases to 1/4th your max hp + 3. At level 11 your healing surge value increases to 1/4th your max hp + 6, and to 1/4th your max hp + 9 at level 21. Crafty Hunter: Targets you have combat advantage against do not benefit from partial cover. Troll Frenzy: You have the Troll Frenzy racial encounter power. Troll Frenzy                        Troll Racial Power "When your body is weakened adrenaline kicks you into overdrive." Racial, Encounter, Healing Immediate Reaction Trigger: You are Bloodied by an attack Effect: You immediately spend a healing surge to regain HP, and may make an at-will attack. Goblin Average Height: 2' 10" - 3'2" Average Weight: 30 - 50 lb. Ability Scores: +2 Intelligence, +2 Constitution or +2 Dexterity Size: Small Speed: 5 squares Vision: Low-light Languages: Common, Goblin, choice of one other Skill Bonuses: +2 Diplomacy, +2 Perception Arcane Curiousity: You gain training in the Arcana skill. If you already have training in this skill, you instead gain +2 bonus to Arcana checks. Better Living Through Chemistry: You gain Alchemist as a bonus feat, and you master two formulas of your choice. The formulas you choose must be of your level or lower. Goblin Wiliness: You gain a +1 racial bonus to Will. Rocket Technology: Once per encounter, you can use either the rocket barrage power or the rocket jump power. Rocket Barrage | Goblin Attack Encounter * Fire Minor Action | Close burst 10 Target: One creature in the burst Attack: Intelligence, Constitution, or Dexterity +3 (6 at 11th level and 9 at 21st level) vs. Reflex Hit: 1d8 + Constitution, Dexterity, or Intelligence modifier fire damage, and ongoing 3 fire damage (save ends).     Level 11: 2d8 + Constitution, Dexterity, or Intelligence modifier fire damage, and ongoing 6 fire damage (save ends).     Level 21: 3d8 + Constitution, Dexterity, or Intelligence modifier fire damage, and ongoing 9 fire damage (save ends). Rocket Jump | Goblin Utility Encounter Move Action | Personal Effect: You jump 10 squares. You can divide these squares however you like between horizontal distance and vertical distance. Ironforge Dwarf Cold Resistance     Benefit: You have resistance to cold damage equal to 5 + one-half your level. This benefit replaces Cast-Iron Stomach. Ironforge Weapon Training     Benefit: You gain proficiency with the mace and the morningstar and, when you wield one of these weapons, its weapon damage die increases by one size. This benefit replaces Dwarven Weapon Proficiency. Stonefleash     Benefit: You gain the stoneflesh power. This benefit replaces dwarven resilience. Stoneflesh | Dwarf Racial Utility Encounter Minor Action | Personal Benefit: You gain a bonus to AC until the end of your next turn. The bonus is equal to the highest of your Strength, Constitution, and Wisdom modifiers. Blood Elf (Eladrin) Arcane Affinity     Benefit: You gain training in Arcana. If you already have training in this skill, you instead gain a +2 bonus to Arcana checks. You also gain the Ritual Caster feat, and master two rituals of your choice. These benefits replace Eladrin Education and Eladrin Weapon Proficiency. Elusive     Benefit: You gain a +2 racial bonus to all defenses against area and close attacks. This benefit replaces Eladrin Will. High Elf (Eladrin) High Elf Weapon Proficiency     Benefit: You gain proficiency with the longbow and the shortbow. This benefit replaces Eladrin Education. Night Elf Elusiveness     Benefit: You gain training in Stealth. If you already have training in this skill, you instead gain a +2 bonus to Stealth checks.This benefit replaces Group Awareness. Night Elf Weapon Proficiency     Benefit: You gain proficiency with the scimitar, the double scimitar, and the Xen'drik boomerang*. This benefit replaces Elf Weapon Proficiency. * Refluff these to the moonsword, the warglaive, and the moonglaive respectively. Shadowmeld Benefit: You gain the shadowmeld power. This benefit replaces elven accuracy. Shadowmeld | Elf Racial Utility Encounter Minor Action | Personal Benefit: You gain total concealment until the end of your next turn, and can make a Stealth check to hide as a free action. Tinker Gnome Escape Artist     Benefit: You gain a +2 racial bonus to saving throws against effects causing the immobilized, restrained, or slowed conditions. This benefit replaces Trickster's Cunning. Tinker Gnome Ability Scores     Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Intelligence and either Dexterity or Wisdom. This benefit replaces the normal gnome to Intelligence and either Dexterity or Charisma. Tinker Gnome Skill Bonus     Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Perception checks. This benefit replaces the normal gnome bonus to Stealth. Tinker Gnome Weapon Proficiency     Benefit: You gain proficiency with the dagger, the rapier, the short sword, and the sickle. This benefit replaces Master Trickster. Tauren Ability Scores: +2 Wisdom; +2 Strength or +2 Constitution Size: Medium Speed: 6 squares Vision: Normal Languages: Common, Giant Skill Bonuses: +2 Endurance, +2 Nature Hearty: You gain either Durable, Swift Recovery, or Toughness as a bonus feat. Nature Resistance: You have resistance to lightning damage and poison damage equal to 5 + one-half your level. War Stomp: You have the war stomp power. War Stomp | Tauren Racial Utility Encounter Minor Action | Close burst 1 Target: Each enemy in the burst that is touching the ground Attack: Strength, Constitution, or Wisdom +3 vs. Fortitude     Level 11: Strength, Constitution, or Wisdom +6 vs. Fortitude     Level 21: Strength, Constitution, or Wisdom +9 vs. Fortitude Effect: You push the target 1 square and knock it prone. Azerothi Human Azerothi Human Skill Bonus     Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Diplomacy and Perception. This benefit replaces Bonus Skill. Azerothi Human Weapon Specialization     Benefit: Choose heavy blades and light blades, or hammers and maces. You gain proficiency with all simple and military weapons of the chosen types, and a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with these weapons. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level and +4 at 21st level. This benefit replaces Bonus Feat. Courageous     Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to Will and your choice of either Fortitude or Reflex. You also gain a +5 racial bonus to saving throws against fear effects. This benefit replaces Human Defense Bonus. Every Man for Himself     Benefit: You the every man for himself power. This benefit replaces either Human Bonus At-Will Power or heroic effort. Every Man for Himself | Human Utility Encouter Minor Action | Personal  Trigger: You start your turn Effect: You end any dazed, dominated, immobilized, restrained, or slowed condition currently affecting you that can be ended by a saving throw. Forsaken Ability Scores: +2 Strength; +2 Intelligence or +2 Charisma Size: Medium Speed: 6 squares Vision: Low-light Languages: Common, choice of on other Skill Bonuses: +2 Intimidate, +2 Perception Death's Blessing: You are an undead creature. You don't need to eat, drink, breathe, or sleep. You never have to make Endurance checks to resist the effects of starvation, thirst, or suffocation. All other conditions and effects affect you normally, and you still require 6 hours to gain the benefits of an extended rest. Reaper's Resistance: You have resistance to necrotic damage equal to 5 + one-half your level. Unnatural Vitality: When you drop to 0 hit points or fewer and are subjected to the dying condition, you can choose to be dazed, instead of falling unconscious. You make death saving throws as normal, and if you fail one, you fall unconscious instead of being dazed. Ardor of Death: You have the ardor of death power. Ardor of Death | Forsaken Racial Utility Encounter Free Action Trigger: You are subject to an condition that a save could end. Effect: The triggering condition immediately ends. Special: If you are subject to more than one condition that a save could end, this power can only end one of those conditions. Feats Here's a couple of feats which should allow a forsaken character to better emulate the 3E race. I would also allow forsaken to take certain revenant feats that don't require/affect dark reaping or Past Life, such as Death Scorned, Death's Quickening, Eerie Resurgence, Fierce Vitality, Ghostly Vitality, Resilience of Death, and Unnatural Vitality. Reposed Mind     Prerequisite: Forsaken     Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to saving throws against charm, fear, illusion, and sleep effects. Unholy Vigor     Prerequisites: Forsaken     Benefit: At the end of each extended rest, you gain a number of temporary hit points equal to 5 + one-half your level.
#2 rampant Dec 24, 2011 3:30:33	major points to cover 1. Use branched ability bonuses, +2 to a stat, and then choose one of two others for a second +2 bonus. 2. Racial encounter powers that require an attack get +3/+6/+9 to the roll (+2 more for attacks on AC). 3. No large, tiny, or unlimited flight races (there a race in the feywild book for 4e that claims to solve some of these issues but I'm not quite convinced). 4. Small creatures have to be pretty boss to make up for being small. 5. The racial powers and features should be at least mildly useful to most any character, and the power especially has to be something you'd consider using in almost any fight. This generally means no weapon powers.
#3 Mist-Bound Dec 24, 2011 11:01:41	Thank you for providing that list, Rampant, I have a feeling that could be helpful. So... should I provide a race that is similar yet different to an existing 4e one for the first try? Or should I offer up a WoW race that has no existant 4e equivalent? Hmm... I think we'll try the Troll (though Forest and Jungle Trolls have seperate racial "entries", the former in the Horde Player's Guide, the latter in the corebook, they use the exact same racial profile/rules) first, because it's a fairly simple race. Just to be sure there's no confusion, when they updated from the Warcraft RPG to the World of Warcraft RPG, they made a few unique tweaks, including renaming the D20 sextet of stats to (I think) the same six as in the MMO (Strength, Agility, Stamina, Intellect, Spirit, Charisma) and borrowing the concept of racial levels from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed sourcebook to try and make inherently more powerful races more balanced to play. The Troll is one of those races that has racial levels. WoWarcraft D20 Jungle/Forest Troll: Racial Profile * +2 Agility, -2 Intellect, -2 Charisma * Medium * Low-Light Vision * Rapid Healing: Trolls regain hitpoints by resting at twice the normal pace * +1 racial bonus to attack rolls with thrown weapons * +2 racial bonus to Survival rolls and Survival is always a class skill * +2 racial bonus to Jump & Tumble rolls and Jump & Tumble is always a class skill * Race Levels * Favored Class: Barbarian WoWarcraft D20 Jungle/Forest Troll: Racial Class Level 1: Base Attack Bonus +1, Fort Save +2, Ref Save +2, Will Save +0, +1 Stamina, Improved Rapid Healing Level 2: Base Attack Bonus +2, Fort Save +3, Ref Save +3, Will Save +0, +1 Agility, Fast Healing 1 Level 3: Base Attack Bonus +3, Fort Save +3, Ref Save +3, Will Save +1, +1 Stamina, Troll Healing Improved Rapid Healing: This replaces the Rapid Healing racial trait. The Troll now recovers hit points equal to his Stamina modifier every hour. Fast Healing 1: This replaces the Improved Rapid Healing racial trait. Troll Healing: The Troll gains Fast Healing equal to half his Stamina modifier rounded down, to a minimum of 1. This replaces the Fast Healing 1 racial trait. So, looking this over, the following rudimentary thoughts occur to me as to what a 4th edition version of the WoW Troll would look like: what are your opinions on what this race might look like in 4e? * +2 Constitution or Wisdom, +2 Dexterity * Medium * Movement 6 squares * Skill Bonuses: Acrobatics and Nature * Troll Healing: I think that this would probably be identical to the 3.5 feature, but I'm unsure if Fast Healing still exists in 4e. * Troll Racial Weapon proficiency: Trolls are automatically proficient in either Spears or Axes * Trollish Stamina: Trolls have more healing surges than other races do. * Racial Encounter Power: Trollish Vitality. Spend a healing surge to gain a considerable boost to health
#4 nb_nmare Dec 24, 2011 13:07:28	Regarding Troll Healing, perhaps you could say something along the lines of "After a short rest, you regain hit points equal to your Constitution modifier. These hit points are in addition to any gained from healing surges spent at the end of the rest".
#5 Mist-Bound Dec 24, 2011 13:19:15	Hmm... that could work. Perhaps the Troll racial power is the ability to spend a healing surge to gain Regeneration equal to their Con modifier halved and rounded down until encounter's end?
#6 ciaran Dec 24, 2011 14:42:54	Regeneration while bloodied is much easier to justify, in my opinion. Look at the Shifter's ecounter ability. That might help. Um, since you don't have a write up yet, you could start with this: Average Height: Average Weight: Ability Scores: +2 Dex, +2 Con or Wis Size: Medium Speed: 6 squares Vision: Low-light Languages: Common and ? Skill Bonuses: +2 Acrobatics and Nature Troll Regeneration encounter power (Typically a race would have a few racial features, but 1/encounter regeneration is quite a boon. The Shifter's ability is his one and only racial feature.
#7 Mist-Bound Dec 24, 2011 15:00:31	True, but the Shifter is also typically regarded as a pretty badly designed race; up until Heroes of Shadow, it was the one most commonly complained about. Alright, here's a shot at the Troll 4e profile... Troll "Cho' call, mon?" Average Height: 7' Average Weight: 200 pounds Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution or Wisdom Size: Medium Speed: 6 Vision: Lowlight Languages: Common and Low Common (in a generic 4e game, this would be replaced with Giant, the generic language shared by bestial demihumans such as Orcs, Trolls and Goblins). Skill Bonus: +2 Acrobatics or Athletics, +2 Nature Trollish Healing: At the end of each short rest, you automatically regain lost hit points equal to your Constitution modifier. These are in addition to any hit points restored by spending healing surges. Trollish Vitality: You have the Regenerative Frenzy racial encounter power. Regenerative Frenzy Encounter, Healing, Racial "As your blood begins to flow, you give a shout of fury. In response to your rage, your wounds begin to close with greater speed." Prerequisite: Must be bloodied Effect: You gain Regeneration equal to your Constitution modifier divided by 2, rounded down, to a minimum of 1. So, what do folks think? Does this look like a fairly good writeup? If yes, which race shall I offer for conversion next? The Corebook has Ironforge Dwarves, High Elves, Night Elves, Gnomes, Goblins, Humans, Orcs, Tauren and Forsaken. The Alliance Player's Guide offers Half-Elves, Furbolgs and Wildhammer Dwarves, while the Horde Player's Guide offers Half-Ogres and Half-Orcs (technically also Forest Trolls, but their stats are noted to be identical to those of a Jungle Troll from the Corebook).
#8 Reg06 Dec 24, 2011 15:53:10	Trollish Healing is bad for three reasons; 1) It requires an investment in CON. Racial features should be usable by any class. 2) It mimics the Satyr's racial feature.  3) The HP regained is insignificant. Low CON PCs don't have the HP to notice, high CON characters have too many HP to notice. Likewise, the racial power is bad because it requires CON. It also mimics the Longtooth power, which is unfun. How's this? Trollish Healing: When you spend a healing surge to regain hitpoints you regain an additional 2 HP per tier. Regenerative Frenzy Encounter, Healing, Racial "As your blood begins to flow, you give a shout of fury. In response to your rage, your wounds begin to close with greater speed." Prerequisite: Must be bloodied Effect: Until the end of the encounter whenever you hit an enemy with an attack you regain 2 HP per tier. What the changes do; The feature and power are usable by any PC (except for a lazylord, but they are an exception), and don't mimic other races. I changed Regenerative Frenzy to be an aggressive heal, which seems to fit the name and flavor text (I'm not familiar with WoW trolls though). Also, the changes are purposefully designed to stack with other healing effects (Regenerative Frenzy allows the troll to use other regenerate powers, for example), making this troll very good at regaining HP, which seems to make sense.
#9 zeratulcraft Dec 24, 2011 16:59:06	I was going to suggest stealing the Dragonborn surge adjustment feature, but as was said, a dependance on a stat is bad design. So 2/tier works.
#10 Mist-Bound Dec 24, 2011 17:41:55	Yeah, I think that looks much better, though I must confess to also not being so sure about the new form of Regenerative Frenzy; I was working on very vague memories of the "Troll Berserker" upgrade for Trolls in Warcraft 2, which made them recover health faster and attack faster. So, which of the races should I post next? or is that up to my discretion?
#11 Reg06 Dec 24, 2011 17:54:17	Regenerative Frenzy Encounter, Healing, Racial "As your blood begins to flow, you give a shout of fury. In response to your rage, your wounds begin to close with greater speed." Prerequisite: Must be bloodied Effect: Until the end of the encounter whenever you regain an additional 3 HP per tier whenever you regain HP. How's that? Getting regen would annoy the Shifters, but this can actually be much stronger.
#12 Crimson_Concerto Dec 24, 2011 18:05:18	Regenerative Frenzy Encounter, Healing, Racial "As your blood begins to flow, you give a shout of fury. In response to your rage, your wounds begin to close with greater speed." Prerequisite: Must be bloodied Effect: Until the end of the encounter whenever you regain an additional 3 HP per tier whenever you regain HP. That's not a power. It's an encounter ability that has no limit on usage and lasts all encounter long, so there's no reason for it to not simply be always active. It's basically just a feature, more specifically the Dragonborn's Draconic Heritage feature.
#13 Reg06 Dec 24, 2011 19:07:54	It requires the user to get bloodied, which is based on the flavor text given. If used during the encounter it does not take effect during the short rest afterwards. Draconic Heritage does not kick in during regen, Astral Seal, Beach of Hope, or other effects that hand out small amounts of HP. edit; To be fair, the troll doesn't *need* a power, so this power could work as a feature. Neither the original human nor the original dwarf had racial powers.
#14 Mist-Bound Dec 24, 2011 21:51:09	True... indeed, it's very valid, but so few of the 4e races are built without a power that it slipped my mind. How does this look as a 4e WoW Troll? Troll "Cho' call, mon?" Average Height: 7' Average Weight: 200 pounds Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution or Wisdom Size: Medium Speed: 6 Vision: Lowlight Languages: Common and Low Common (in a generic 4e game, this would be replaced with Giant, the generic language shared by bestial demihumans such as Orcs, Trolls and Goblins). Skill Bonus: +2 Acrobatics or Athletics, +2 Nature Troll Healing: When you spend a healing surge to regain hitpoints you regain an additional 2 HP per tier. Any power used on you that causes you to regain hit points heals +3/6/9 hit points. You double the amount of hit points that you regain automatically after a short rest. Troll Weapon Proficiency: You are automatically proficient in either the Spear and Javelin, or in the Hand Axe and Throwing Axe. Troll Vitality: You can spend a healing surge as a free action if you are Bloodied.
#15 zeratulcraft Dec 24, 2011 22:41:43	What if a power used on you allows you to spend a healing surge? Does that stack?
#16 Mist-Bound Dec 24, 2011 22:50:04	No, I was thinking that only powers that directly gave you hit points would count. Powers that trigger you using a healing surge count as "only" the healing surge bonus of +2/4/6.
#17 Crimson_Concerto Dec 25, 2011 3:19:13	To be fair, the troll doesn't *need* a power, so this power could work as a feature. Neither the original human nor the original dwarf had racial powers. I totally disagree. The only races that did not have a racial encounter power in their original incarnation were the Human and the Shade. The Shade sucks, so that's that, and the Human is the exception to every race creation rule. The Dwarf had Dwarven Resiliance, which was effectively a racial encounter ability because it fulfilled the same function and role. I have seen no homebrew races that I can think of that pull off not having a racial encounter power or something functionally identical to it.
#18 pluisjen Dec 25, 2011 3:48:39	In addition to their fast healing (which seems covered with their other healing feature) the trolls had a Berserk ability that made them attack faster at the cost of taking more damage when hit, at least in WC:III. So how about this? Beserker Fury Minor Action Racial Encounter Power Prereq: Your must be bloodied Effect: Take a standard action. You must use this action to make an attack. You gain Vulnerable 5/all per tier until the end of your next turn.
#19 Reg06 Dec 25, 2011 9:06:04	Any power used on you that causes you to regain hit points heals +3/6/9 hit points.  Currently this stacks with the bonus to surges, for powers like Healing Word.  You double the amount of hit points that you regain automatically after a short rest.
#20 Mist-Bound Dec 25, 2011 14:27:19	Alright... how does this look? Troll "Cho' call, mon?" Average Height: 7' Average Weight: 200 pounds Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution or Wisdom Size: Medium Speed: 6 Vision: Lowlight Languages: Common and Low Common (in a generic 4e game, this would be replaced with Giant, the generic language shared by bestial demihumans such as Orcs, Trolls and Goblins). Skill Bonus: +2 Acrobatics or Athletics, +2 Nature Troll Healing: When you spend a healing surge to regain hitpoints you regain +3/6/9 hit points. You automatically regain hit points equal to your Constitution modifier after a short rest. Troll Weapon Proficiency: You are automatically proficient in either the Spear and Javelin, or in the Hand Axe and Throwing Axe. Troll Vitality: You have the Regenerate racial encounter power. Regenerate "When your body is weakened, adrenaline causes your healing abilities to kick into overdrive." Racial, Encounter, Healing Prerequisite: You are Bloodied by an attack Cost: Instant Reaction Effect: You immediately spend a healing surge. You also gain Regeneration 1/3/5 until the encounter ends. While it's true that Warcraft 2 and 3 both had "Troll Berserkers" as an upgraded form of Troll, I don't want trolls to look too much like Orcs, whose D20 incarnation is defined by its ability to fly into a Rage, ala Barbarians.
#21 Crimson_Concerto Dec 25, 2011 14:31:37	Dwarven Resilience is not a power. It is an encounter ability sure, but that is not the same thing as a power. I said that it was effectively the same, because it is. It fulfills the same design purpose, and make no mistake, there is a design purpose for racial encounter powers, to keep race relevant to a character in all encounters by offering an ability with the utility to be so frequently actively used. This is a design feature of 4E races, and violating that design paradigm can be problematic. It's not necessarily problematic in the balance sense but more in the design standard sense, like how the Half-Orc's Swift Charge is problematic in the design standard sense because it's so exclusively useful to certain kinds of characters even though it's certainly not overpowered.
#22 pluisjen Dec 25, 2011 16:02:35	Dwarven Resilience has been updated to be an actual racial power in Essentials, even. It has the full powerblock writeup and everything. It still does the same thing though.
#23 Crimson_Concerto Dec 25, 2011 16:12:23	You also gain Regeneration 1/3/5 until the encounter ends. This part of the power is too strong. It negates the need to ever spend any healing surges during a short rest as long as you're bloodied every encounter, because you'll already be at full HP by the time you take any short rest. This is exactly the reason that the Shifter regeneration only functons while the character is bloodied.
#24 Mist-Bound Dec 25, 2011 16:16:18	So I need to remove the "gain regeneration" part of the racial power, but otherwise the race is finally looking balanced?
#25 Mist-Bound Dec 26, 2011 1:59:52	I thought I may as well post up the other Horde races from the corebook. WoWarcraft D20 Orc: * +2 Stamina, -2 Intellect * Medium * Base land speed 30 feet * Low-light Vision * Battle Rage: Orcs may Rage as per a Barbarian once per day. If they have a class that grants them the usage of Rage, then they increase the number of times they can rage a day by +1. * +2 Racial Bonus on Handle Animal (Wolf) checks and Intimidate checks. Intimidate is always a class skill for Orcs. * +1 racial bonus on attacks against Humans. * Weapon Familiarity: Orc Claws are Martial weapons for Orcs instead of Exotic weapons. WoWarcraft D20 Tauren: * +2 Strength, -2 Agility * Medium * Base land speed 30 feet * Natural Weapon (Extraordinary Ability): Horns. Inflicts D8 plus Strength bonus damage when used. * Weapon Familiarity: Tauren Halberds and Tauren Totems are Martial weapons for Tauren instead of Exotic weapons. * +2 racial bonus on Handle Animal and Survival checks. These skills are always class skills for Taurens. WoWarcraft D20 Tauren Racial Class: Level 1: Base Attack Bonus +0, Fortitude Save +2, Reflex Save +0, Will Save +2, +1 Strength, Tauren Charge - Extraordinary Ability that allows a Tauren to use his/her horns during a charge instead of a melee weapon. In addition to the usual benefits and hazards of a charge, the Tauren delivers a gore attack that inflicts regular Horn damage + 1 1/2 times the Tauren's Strength modifier. Level 2:  Base Attack Bonus +1, Fortitude Save +2, Reflex Save +0, Will Save +2, +2 Spirit, +4 racial bonus on Saves vs Fear, Automatically gain proficiency with either the Tauren Halberd or Tauren Totem Level 3: Base Attack Bonus +2, Fortitude Save +3, Reflex Save +1, Will Save +3, +1 Strength, Automatically gain proficiency with either the Tauren Halberd or Tauren Totem, Tauren Charge becomes Improved Taurent Charge (Tauren is now considered Large for the purposes of making Tauren Charges and Bull Rushes, Tauren receives a +4 racial bonus on Strength checks for Bull Rushes) WoWarcraft D20 Forsaken: * +2 Strength, -2 Agility * Medium * Base land speed 30 feet * Darkvision 60 feet * Undead ** No Stamina score and so Forsaken do not gain bonus hit points per Hit Dice ** Immunity to all mind-affecting effects ** Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease and death effects ** Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain or energy drain ** Immune to damage to Strength and Agility as well as fatigue and exhaustion effects ** Negative energy heals, positive energy harms ** Does not heal naturally ** Immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save unless the effect also hurts objects or is harmless ** Uses Charisma modifier for Concentration checks ** Not at risk of death from massive damage ** When reduced to 0 hit points, the Forsaken is Disabled (can only take one move or standard action per round) ** At -1 to -9 hit points, the Forsaken is unconscious ** At -10 hit points, the Forsaken is destroyed ** Not affected by Raised Dead or Reincarnation spells or effects. Resurrection and True Resurrection revive the Forsaken as a Forsaken. Wish and Miracle can bring the Forsaken back to true life. ** Does not eat, breath or sleep, but still needs 8 hours of uninterrupted rest to prepare spells WoWarcraft D20 Forsaken Racial Class: Level 1: Base Attack Bonus +0, Fortitude Save +0, Reflex Save +0, Will Save +2, +1 Natural Armor Bonus to AC, +1 Strength Level 2: Base Attack Bonus +1, Fortitude Save +1, Reflex Save +0, Will Save +3, +1 Natural Armor Bonus to AC, +1 Strength, Slam as Extraordinary Attack that does 1D6 + Strength modifier damage Level 3: Base Attack Bonus +2, Fortitude Save +1, Reflex Save +1, Will Save +3, +1 Natural Armor Bonus to AC, +1 Strength, Increased Hit Die (whenever the Forsaken gains a Hit Die, it uses the next largest one up - a Forsaken Arcanist (D6 Hit Die) would instead use a D8 Hit Die when it gains a level, for example - unless it would already use a D12, in which case it gains D12+2 hit points) Right, so, there are the Forsaken, Tauren and Orc as they would be in Edition 3.5. How might they graduate to the 4th Edition?
#26 nb_nmare Dec 26, 2011 8:05:54	Other than ability scores, the revenant is already quite close to what a 4E forsaken would be like. Here's a quick adaption, which changes the ability scores, swaps the bonus to Endurance with a bonus to Perception, removes Past Life and Undead and makes the Death's Blessing and Reaper's Resistance feats built-in, and replaces dark reaping with a new power called ardor of death.  Forsaken Ability Scores: +2 Strength; +2 Intelligence or +2 Charisma Size: Medium Speed: 6 squares Vision: Low-light Languages: Common, choice of on other Skill Bonuses: +2 Intimidate, +2 Perception Death's Blessing: You are an undead creature. You don't need to eat, drink, breathe, or sleep. You never have to make Endurance checks to resist the effects of starvation, thirst, or suffocation. All other conditions and effects affect you normally, and you still require 6 hours to gain the benefits of an extended rest. Reaper's Resistance: You have resistance to necrotic damage equal to 5 + one-half your level. Unnatural Vitality: When you drop to 0 hit points or fewer and are subjected to the dying condition, you can choose to be dazed, instead of falling unconscious. You make death saving throws as normal, and if you fail one, you fall unconscious instead of being dazed. Ardor of Death: You have the ardor of death power. Ardor of Death | Forsaken Racial Utility Encounter Free Action Trigger: You are subject to an condition that a save could end. Effect: The triggering condition immediately ends. Special: If you are subject to more than one condition that a save could end, this power can only end one of those conditions. Feats Here's a couple of feats which should allow a forsaken character to better emulate the 3E race. I would also allow forsaken to take certain revenant feats that don't require/affect dark reaping or Past Life, such as Death Scorned, Death's Quickening, Eerie Resurgence, Fierce Vitality, Ghostly Vitality, Resilience of Death, and Unnatural Vitality. Reposed Mind     Prerequisite: Forsaken     Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to saving throws against charm, fear, illusion, and sleep effects. Unholy Vigor     Prerequisites: Forsaken     Benefit: At the end of each extended rest, you gain a number of temporary hit points equal to 5 + one-half your level.
#27 ciaran Dec 26, 2011 13:00:04	i would drop the Troll's choices in Skill Bonuses and Weapon Proficiencies. I would also drop the Con mod in healing at the end of a short rest. The benefit is not worth complicating the feature over.
#28 rampant Dec 26, 2011 14:34:41	Troll "Cho' call, mon?" Average Height: 7' Average Weight: 200 pounds Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution or Wisdom Size: Medium Speed: 6 Vision: Lowlight  Languages: Common and Low Common (in a generic 4e game, this would be replaced with Giant, the generic language shared by bestial demihumans such as Orcs, Trolls and Goblins). Skill Bonus: +2 Acrobatics, +2 Nature Troll Healing: Your healing surge value increases to 1/4th your max hp + 3. At level 11 your healing surge value increases to 1/4th your max hp + 6, and to 1/4th your max hp + 9 at level 21. Crafty Hunter: Targets you have combat advantage against do not benefit from partial cover. Troll Frenzy: You have the Troll Frenzy racial encounter power. Troll Frenzy                        Troll Racial Power "When your body is weakened adrenaline kicks you into overdrive." Racial, Encounter, Healing Immediate Reaction Trigger: You are Bloodied by an attack Effect: You immediately spend a healing surge to regain HP, and may make an at-will attack. How's that?
#29 Mist-Bound Dec 26, 2011 15:02:10	Thank you, Rampant, nb_nmare, those both look like very good 4e races to me. But then again, I'm not exactly an expert at judging this, am I? ;) Hmm... for the Orc, perhaps +2 to Constitution and +2 to either Wisdom or Strength works? Warcraft Orcs are ferocious melee fighters, but they're also a shamanic race with a culture based around the spirits and proper reverence for them. Racial features escape me, but I was thinking that their racial power would be "Orc Battle Rage", a Stance that gives them a +2/4/6 bonus to Attack Rolls, Damage Rolls and Fortitude Defense at the cost of an equal penalty to Armor Class. For the Tauren... +2 Strength and +2 to either Wisdom or Constitution is the only stat choice that immediately leaps to mind, but the problem is defining them differently from the Minotaur... unless they should just use the Minotaur statblock?
#30 nb_nmare Dec 26, 2011 16:29:56	Orc Ability Scores: +2 Constitution; +2 Strength or +2 Wisdom Size: Medium Speed: 6 squares Vision: Low-light Languages: Common, Giant Skill Bonuses: +2 Intimidate, +2 Nature Blood Fury: While you're bloodied, you gain a +2 racial bonus to damage rolls. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level and +4 at 21st level. Hardiness: You have a +2 racial bonus to saving throws against effects that daze or stun. Natural Ferocity: You gain training in the Intimidate skill. Battle Rage: You have the battle rage power. Battle Rage | Orc Racial Utility Encounter Minor Action Effect: The next attack you make before the end of your next turn deals 1d6 + your Strength, Constitution, or Wisdom modifier extra damage on a hit.     Level 11: 2d6 + your Strength, Constitution, or Wisdom modifier extra damage.     Level 21: 3d6 + your Strength, Constitution, or Wisdom modifier extra damage. Feats Focused Rage     Prerequisite: Orc, battle rage power
#31 Mist-Bound Dec 26, 2011 17:14:18	That looks pretty good, NB_Mare. I think it works well; what do you others think? And does the Tauren warrant its own racial write up, or is it basically a Minotaur with an alternate racial culture?
#32 nb_nmare Dec 26, 2011 17:16:35	While they have an obvious physical resemblance, I think tauren and minotaurs are different enough in regards to both their abilities and their cultures that tauren deserve their own write up. Tauren Ability Scores: +2 Wisdom; +2 Strength or +2 Constitution Size: Medium Speed: 6 squares Vision: Normal Languages: Common, Giant Skill Bonuses: +2 Endurance, +2 Nature Hearty: You gain either Durable, Swift Recovery, or Toughness as a bonus feat. Nature Resistance: You have resistance to lightning damage and poison damage equal to 5 + one-half your level. War Stomp: You have the war stomp power. War Stomp | Tauren Racial Utility Encounter Minor Action | Close burst 1 Target: Each enemy in the burst that is touching the ground Attack: Strength, Constitution, or Wisdom +3 vs. Fortitude     Level 11: Strength, Constitution, or Wisdom +6 vs. Fortitude     Level 21: Strength, Constitution, or Wisdom +9 vs. Fortitude Effect: You push the target 1 square and knock it prone.
#33 Mist-Bound Dec 26, 2011 17:20:08	Wow. I stand corrected; a unique Tauren racial template is viable. Alright, time to move on to the Alliance races... now, I know there's no point with posting the Human D20 profile, as I'm positive it's identical to the D&D 3.5 Player's handbook writeup, but what about the WoWcraft D20 Gnome? Should I post its profile?
#34 Crimson_Concerto Dec 26, 2011 18:12:13	Death's Blessing: You are an undead creature. You don't need to eat, drink, breathe, or sleep. You never have to make Endurance checks to resist the effects of starvation, thirst, or suffocation. All other conditions and effects affect you normally, and you still require 6 hours to gain the benefits of an extended rest. Undead still need to eat and drink, and I don't see why they should have any special resistance to starvation or thirst. Ardor of Death: You have the ardor of death power. Ardor of Death | Forsaken Racial Utility Encounter Free Action Trigger: You become dominated, immobilized, slowed, or weakened. Effect: The triggering condition immediately ends. Very weak power. It's cool when it does come up, but it's just not going to come up during most encounters. Blood Fury: When you're bloodied, you gain a +2 racial bonus to damage rolls. Needs to scale or else become useless at higher levels. Battle Rage: You have the battle rage power. Battle Rage | Orc Racial Utility Encounter Minor Action Effect: The next attack you make before the end of your next turn deals 1d6 extra damage on a hit. Level 11: 2d6 extra damage. Level 21: 3d6 extra damage. Looks underpowered to me. Compare to the Half-Orc power. Granted, this one scales, but still. Hearty: You gain 5 additional hit points. In addition, your number of healing surges increases by one. Nature Resistance: You have resistance to lightning damage and poison damage equal to 5 + one-half your level. Tauren Cultivation: You gain training in the Nature skill. None of these benefits is too powerful on its own, but all together it's just too much stuff. Also, avoid auto-training in skills that some classes get for free. It makes the feature useless to a lot of characters. War Stomp:  You have the war stomp power. War Stomp | Tauren Racial Utility Encounter Minor Action | Close burst 3 Target: Each creature in the burst Attack: Strength, Constitution, or Wisdom +3 vs. Fortitude Level 11: Strength, Constitution, or Wisdom +6 vs. Fortitude Level 21: Strength, Constitution, or Wisdom +9 vs. Fortitude Effect: You push the target 1 square and knock it prone. WAAAY too powerful. Compare to the Genasi Earth-Shock power.
#35 rampant Dec 26, 2011 18:24:34	community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... for ideas for the orc I gotta say any combination of Wis-con-str is pretty overplayed so you gotta really make the features count.
#36 nb_nmare Dec 26, 2011 18:58:53	Death's Blessing: You are an undead creature. You don't need to eat, drink, breathe, or sleep. You never have to make Endurance checks to resist the effects of starvation, thirst, or suffocation. All other conditions and effects affect you normally, and you still require 6 hours to gain the benefits of an extended rest. Undead still need to eat and drink, and I don't see why they should have any special resistance to starvation or thirst. Indeed they do... but forsaken do not. Besides which, this is simply the Death's Blessing feat (from Dragon #376) presented as a racial trait. Ardor of Death: You have the ardor of death power. Ardor of Death | Forsaken Racial Utility Encounter Free Action Trigger: You become dominated, immobilized, slowed, or weakened. Effect: The triggering condition immediately ends. Very weak power. It's cool when it does come up, but it's just not going to come up during most encounters. It's based on the mul incredible toughness power, though that applies to dazed, slowed, stunned, or weakened. I deliberately removed dazed from the list of conditions to prevent the power from being able to bypass the daze effect of Unnatural Vigor... but now I think about, as the power is indeed rather situational, that would allow it to see considerable more use. Heck, how about allowing it to be applied to *any* single condition? Blood Fury: When you're bloodied, you gain a +2 racial bonus to damage rolls. Needs to scale or else become useless at higher levels. I disagree. This trait is intended to be similar to Astral Majesty, Bloodhunt, Dragonborn Fury, etc, and none of those scale. Feats that grant constant or near-constant damage bonuses (which this stacks with) only go up to +3 at epic, and +1 damage isn't exactly much of a difference. Battle Rage: You have the battle rage power. Battle Rage | Orc Racial Utility Encounter Minor Action Effect: The next attack you make before the end of your next turn deals 1d6 extra damage on a hit. Level 11: 2d6 extra damage. Level 21: 3d6 extra damage. Looks underpowered to me. Compare to the Half-Orc power. Granted, this one scales, but still. Compare to the genasi fire pulse power, or indeed infernal wrath (though obviously the latter doesn't require an attack roll)... and this is untyped damage. Hearty: You gain 5 additional hit points. In addition, your number of healing surges increases by one. Nature Resistance: You have resistance to lightning damage and poison damage equal to 5 + one-half your level. Tauren Cultivation: You gain training in the Nature skill. None of these benefits is too powerful on its own, but all together it's just too much stuff. This is less stuff than several official D&D races get, particularly the dwarf and eladrin. Heck, a human who choses Constitution for his ability score, Nature as his bonus skill and Durable as his bonus feat would be quite similar to this race. Of course, there would be the extra ability score, the skill bonuses, Nature Resistance, and war stomp; however, Bonus At-Will and Human Defense Bonus should compensate for these, I should think? Also, avoid auto-training in skills that some classes get for free. It makes the feature useless to a lot of characters. That is a good point. How about a +2 bonus if you're already trained in the skill? War Stomp:  You have the war stomp power. War Stomp | Tauren Racial Utility Encounter Minor Action | Close burst 3 Target: Each creature in the burst Attack: Strength, Constitution, or Wisdom +3 vs. Fortitude Level 11: Strength, Constitution, or Wisdom +6 vs. Fortitude Level 21: Strength, Constitution, or Wisdom +9 vs. Fortitude Effect: You push the target 1 square and knock it prone. WAAAY too powerful. Compare to the Genasi Earth-Shock power. My bad, I based this on the level 1 druid encounter power gust of wind, and forgot to change the size when I changed it from blast to burst - it should be a burst 1. As for earth shock, I thought it was generally agreed it was underpowered?
#37 nb_nmare Dec 26, 2011 19:33:56	now, I know there's no point with posting the Human D20 profile, as I'm positive it's identical to the D&D 3.5 Player's handbook writeup Actually, the WoW RPG human does have a couple of additional racial traits that the standard 3.5 human does not. WoW itself has also made some changes to the race since the WoW RPG was written. I think these would be best presented as a subrace, ala the Neverwinter Campaign Setting. As with the subraces in that book, you can pick and choose which traits you want: Azerothi Human Azerothi Human Skill Bonus     Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Diplomacy and Perception. This benefit replaces Bonus Skill. Azerothi Human Weapon Specialization     Benefit: Choose heavy blades and light blades, or hammers and maces. You gain proficiency with all simple and military weapons of the chosen types, and a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with these weapons. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level and +4 at 21st level. This benefit replaces Bonus Feat. Courageous     Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to Will and your choice of either Fortitude or Reflex. You also gain a +5 racial bonus to saving throws against fear effects. This benefit replaces Human Defense Bonus. Every Man for Himself     Benefit: You the every man for himself power. This benefit replaces either Human Bonus At-Will Power or heroic effort. Every Man for Himself | Human Utility Encouter Minor Action | Personal  Trigger: You start your turn Effect: You end any dazed, dominated, immobilized, restrained, or slowed condition currently affecting you that can be ended by a saving throw.
#38 Crimson_Concerto Dec 26, 2011 20:00:12	Indeed they do... but forsaken do not. That's fine, it just looked like you were trying to specifically detail what being undead was, which does not include those in the general sense. It's based on the mul incredible toughness power... Which is also a bad power for the reason I already went over. It's just too situational in use. The purpose of racial powers is to give characters something that they can actively do on a consistant basis that makes their race remain a significant choice. A racial power that's too situational in use does not fulfill its purpose. Heck, how about allowing it to be applied to *any* single condition? I worry that might make it too good... Hmm... I disagree. This trait is intended to be similar to Astral Majesty, Bloodhunt, Dragonborn Fury, etc, and none of those scale. A damage bonus is not the same as an attack or defense bonus. Those do not need to scale, but damage still does. That's what the Gnoll feature, which does pretty much this exact same thing, does scale. Compare to the genasi fire pulse power, or indeed infernal wrath (though obviously the latter doesn't require an attack roll)... and this is untyped damage. The Genasi Fire-Pulse power is terrible. Compare it to Infernal Wrath. But really, comparing your power to infernal wrath isn't a bad idea. The different is pretty much that takes a more valuable action, does less damage, and has a chance to fail. This is less stuff than several official D&D races get, particularly the dwarf and eladrin. Are you kidding me? No, it is not. Bonus hit points, bonus healing surge, good resistance to one of the more common damage types in the game (especially for ongoing), good resistance to another damage type on top of that, and free trained skill? No, the Dwarf and Eladrin do not get that much stuff. Features like weapon proficiency and trance are mechanically insignificant and simply do not count. And the Dwarf gets more stuff than most races because it has low speed. As for earth shock, I thought it was generally agreed it was underpowered? Nope, it's a fine power. Where'd you get the idea it was underpowered? It might have some design flaws in that it's a bit melee-centric and doesn't offer enough abilty score options for attack, but underpowered it is not.
#39 nb_nmare Dec 27, 2011 6:09:19	But really, comparing your power to infernal wrath isn't a bad idea. The different is pretty much that takes a more valuable action, does less damage, and has a chance to fail. I'm not quite sure how 1d6 damage is less damage than 1d6 damage ;). Regardless, I've upped the damage to d8s, which matches the berserker's Berserker Fury class feature. No, the Dwarf and Eladrin do not get that much stuff. Features like weapon proficiency and trance are mechanically insignificant and simply do not count. And the Dwarf gets more stuff than most races because it has low speed. The eladrin still essentially has two free feats (regardless of what those feats are), PLUS a defense bonus, PLUS a saving throw bonus, PLUS another minor bonus, PLUS low-light vision. Hardy was a blend of Durability and Toughness (less potent than both), so was basically the equivalent of one feat. Nature Resistance is the equivalent of two feats (Poison Adaption and a non-existant Lightning Adaption). Tauren Cultivation is also the equivalent of a feat. So that's four feats. Dwarves by my count have the equivalent of six feats, which I think more than compensates for their speed... especially considering they can simply take Quick Steps as their level 1 feat. Anyway, I've remove Tauren Cultivation, but have also updated Hardy so that it grants you a choice of three different feats. I could perhaps allow them to choose any feat from the Enduring Stamina category, but that may be a bit too much considering it includes Improved Defenses.
#40 pluisjen Dec 27, 2011 6:31:38	Problem with the Orc power is that you trigger it before you hit, which means it has a 50% chance of doing nothing. Infernal Wrath doesn't have an attack roll and adds your ability modifier to the damage. Furious Assault adds a [W], which is often better then even a d8. Even Dragonbreath adds an ability, and that one applies damage in a Blast 3. You should probably make it a free action, or make it not expend if you miss all targets or something.
#41 nb_nmare Dec 27, 2011 7:34:47	Here's a quick attempt at a WoW goblin (yes, they're completely different to the D&D goblin). Please let me know your thoughts on the racial powers in particular; for rocket barrage, perhaps a condition would be better than simple ongoing damage (deafened, perhaps?). As for the ability scores, those are three highest for the WoW goblin, and I went with Int as the primary so they can excel as artificers. Goblin Average Height: 2' 10" - 3'2" Average Weight: 30 - 50 lb. Ability Scores: +2 Intelligence, +2 Constitution or +2 Dexterity Size: Small Speed: 5 squares Vision: Low-light Languages: Common, Goblin, choice of one other Skill Bonuses: +2 Diplomacy, +2 Perception Arcane Curiousity: You gain training in the Arcana skill. If you already have training in this skill, you instead gain +2 bonus to Arcana checks. Better Living Through Chemistry: You gain Alchemist as a bonus feat, and you master two formulas of your choice. The formulas you choose must be of your level or lower. Goblin Wiliness: You gain a +1 racial bonus to Will. Rocket Technology: Once per encounter, you can use either the rocket barrage power or the rocket jump power. Rocket Barrage | Goblin Attack Encounter * Fire Minor Action | Close burst 10 Target: One creature in the burst Attack: Intelligence, Constitution, or Dexterity +3 (6 at 11th level and 9 at 21st level) vs. Reflex Hit: 1d8 + Constitution, Dexterity, or Intelligence modifier fire damage, and ongoing 3 fire damage (save ends).     Level 11: 2d8 + Constitution, Dexterity, or Intelligence modifier fire damage, and ongoing 6 fire damage (save ends).     Level 21: 3d8 + Constitution, Dexterity, or Intelligence modifier fire damage, and ongoing 9 fire damage (save ends). Rocket Jump | Goblin Utility Encounter Move Action | Personal Effect: You jump 10 squares. You can divide these squares however you like between horizontal distance and vertical distance.
#42 rampant Dec 27, 2011 10:46:45	THe eladrin defense bonus is only because it has overlapping ability boosts. It's stat spread is less advantageous so they compensated for it, not sure it counts as a real feature.
#43 nb_nmare Dec 27, 2011 11:48:35	I've started going through the Alliance races, and it looks like most of them will work best as subraces rather than complete races. Ironforge Dwarf Cold Resistance     Benefit: You have resistance to cold damage equal to 5 + one-half your level. This benefit replaces Cast-Iron Stomach. Ironforge Weapon Training     Benefit: You gain proficiency with the mace and the morningstar and, when you wield one of these weapons, its weapon damage die increases by one size. This benefit replaces Dwarven Weapon Proficiency. Stonefleash     Benefit: You gain the stoneflesh power. This benefit replaces dwarven resilience. Stoneflesh | Dwarf Racial Utility Encounter Minor Action | Personal Benefit: You gain a bonus to AC until the end of your next turn. The bonus is equal to the highest of your Strength, Constitution, and Wisdom modifiers. Blood Elf (Eladrin) Arcane Affinity     Benefit: You gain training in Arcana. If you already have training in this skill, you instead gain a +2 bonus to Arcana checks. You also gain the Ritual Caster feat, and master two rituals of your choice. These benefits replace Eladrin Education and Eladrin Weapon Proficiency. Elusive     Benefit: You gain a +2 racial bonus to all defenses against area and close attacks. This benefit replaces Eladrin Will. High Elf (Eladrin) High Elf Weapon Proficiency     Benefit: You gain proficiency with the longbow and the shortbow. This benefit replaces Eladrin Education. Night Elf Elusiveness     Benefit: You gain training in Stealth. If you already have training in this skill, you instead gain a +2 bonus to Stealth checks.This benefit replaces Group Awareness. Night Elf Weapon Proficiency     Benefit: You gain proficiency with the scimitar, the double scimitar, and the Xen'drik boomerang*. This benefit replaces Elf Weapon Proficiency. * Refluff these to the moonsword, the warglaive, and the moonglaive respectively. Shadowmeld Benefit: You gain the shadowmeld power. This benefit replaces elven accuracy. Shadowmeld | Elf Racial Utility Encounter Minor Action | Personal Benefit: You gain total concealment until the end of your next turn, and can make a Stealth check to hide as a free action. Tinker Gnome Escape Artist     Benefit: You gain a +2 racial bonus to saving throws against effects causing the immobilized, restrained, or slowed conditions. This benefit replaces Trickster's Cunning. Tinker Gnome Ability Scores     Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Intelligence and either Dexterity or Wisdom. This benefit replaces the normal gnome to Intelligence and either Dexterity or Charisma. Tinker Gnome Skill Bonus     Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Perception checks. This benefit replaces the normal gnome bonus to Stealth. Tinker Gnome Weapon Proficiency     Benefit: You gain proficiency with the dagger, the rapier, the short sword, and the sickle. This benefit replaces Master Trickster.
#44 Mist-Bound Dec 27, 2011 12:06:38	One, do you have a copy of the WoWCraft D20 RPG corebook of your own, NB_Mare? Two, don't you think that Stoneflesh, the special feature of the Ironforge Dwarf racial class, makes a perfect racial encounter power in 4e?
#45 nb_nmare Dec 27, 2011 12:36:36	I don't, but I found the races easily enough with a quick Google search . I've also been looking at the write ups for the races as presented in WoW itself on a couple of wiki's. Stoneflesh has now been added. It's at the same power level as several 2nd level utility powers (barksin and lotulis parry for example).
#46 Mist-Bound Dec 27, 2011 12:51:52	I see... A part of me still thinks I should give the writeups from the corebook here, just in case...
#47 Crimson_Concerto Dec 27, 2011 15:27:22	I'm not quite sure how 1d6 damage is less damage than 1d6 damage ;). It's not, but 1d6 damage is less damage than 1d6 + ability score modifier damage. Regardless, I've upped the damage to d8s, which matches the berserker's Berserker Fury class feature. Stop comparing racial features to class features. That is not a balanced comparison. The eladrin still essentially has two free feats (regardless of what those feats are), PLUS a defense bonus, PLUS a saving throw bonus, PLUS another minor bonus, PLUS low-light vision. No. Eladrin have two or three mechanically significant racial features, depending on how mechanically significant you consider Low-Light Vision to be. They get free training in a skill of their choice, and they get a +5 bonus to saving throws versus Charm effects. Everything else in the Eladrin racial trait stack block is fluff. Fey Origin in a fluff feature. Trace is a fluff feature. Longsword proficiency is a fluff feature. The Will bonus is because DEX and INT both grant a bonus to the same defense, so Eladrin got that to make up for it and bring them up to par with other races. That the bonus doesn't go away with the new flexible ability score bonuses if a player selects CHA instead of DEX is simply a mistake on the part of the designers, so it cannot be used as justification. Hardy was a blend of Durability and Toughness (less potent than both), so was basically the equivalent of one feat. Nature Resistance is the equivalent of two feats (Poison Adaption and a non-existant Lightning Adaption). Tauren Cultivation is also the equivalent of a feat. So that's four feats. Hardy grants the same HP boost as Toughness does at early levels, so it's more like one and a half feats. Nature Resistance also has better scaling than Poison Adaptation does. This is too much stuff. You're comparing mechanically significant features like bonus HP and resistance to poison to mechanically insignificant or close to insignificant features like longsword proficiency and low-light vision. Dwarves by my count have the equivalent of six feats, which I think more than compensates for their speed... Don't know where you're getting that. As a bonus, Dwarves get a save bonus versus poison, reduced forced movement, the ability to save to avoid falling prone, and the questionable useful Low-Light Vision. They get Encumbered Speed, but that's just to partially make up for their lower speed, and if I'm feeling generous, then Low-Light can make up for the other part, leaving the Dwarf with three mechanically significant bonuses (poison save bonus, forced movement reduction, save versus prone), which is still perfectly within the normal range. Proficiency with a couple of weak hammers is a fluff feature. Anyway, I've remove Tauren Cultivation, but have also updated Hardy so that it grants you a choice of three different feats. I could perhaps allow them to choose any feat from the Enduring Stamina category, but that may be a bit too much considering it includes Improved Defenses. Its features all look fine now, though the racial power is still pretty much objectively better than Earth-Shock considering that it also pushes 1. Anyway, moving on to additional critiques: Goblin Wiliness: You gain a +1 racial bonus to Will. To be blunt, racial defense bonuses are boring, so they shouldn't be used if racial ability score bonuses don't necessitate them. In this particular case, I would make getting this bonus contingent on selecting DEX over CON. This prevents CON from being the obviously better option. Rocket Barrage | Goblin Attack Encounter * Fire Minor Action | Close burst 10 Target: One creature in the burst Attack: Intelligence, Constitution, or Dexterity +3 (6 at 11th level and 9 at 21st level) vs. Reflex Hit: 1d8 + Constitution, Dexterity, or Intelligence modifier fire damage, and ongoing 3 fire damage (save ends).     Level 11: 2d8 + Constitution, Dexterity, or Intelligence modifier fire damage, and ongoing 6 fire damage (save ends).     Level 21: 3d8 + Constitution, Dexterity, or Intelligence modifier fire damage, and ongoing 9 fire damage (save ends). I am very suspicious of any racial encounter power that includes save ends effects. Arcane Affinity     Benefit: You gain training in Arcana. If you already have training in this skill, you instead gain a +2 bonus to Arcana checks. You also gain the Ritual Caster feat, and master two rituals of your choice. These benefits replace Eladrin Education and Eladrin Weapon Proficiency. It sounds here like you're replacing a mechanically insignificant feature (eladrin weapon proficiency) with a mechanically significant feature (ritual caster + 2 rituals), and I don't think that's okay. High Elf Weapon Proficiency     Benefit: You gain proficiency with the longbow and the shortbow. This benefit replaces Eladrin Education. ... Tinker Gnome Weapon Proficiency     Benefit: You gain proficiency with the dagger, the rapier, the short sword, and the sickle. This benefit replaces Master Trickster. Here, you're doing the opposite, replacing a mechanically significant feature with a mechanically insignificant one. Why would anybody ever want this? Night Elf Weapon Proficiency     Benefit: You gain proficiency with the scimitar, the double scimitar, and the Xen'drik boomerang*. This benefit replaces Elf Weapon Proficiency. Racial proficiencies with superior weapons is generally considered a no-no because that makes it a mechanically significant feature rather than a mechanically insignificant one. Shadowmeld | Elf Racial Utility Encounter Minor Action | Personal Benefit: You gain total concealment until the end of your next turn, and can make a Stealth check to hide as a free action. This is a really good power. I'm pretty sure, in fact, that it's overpowered, comparing to powers like the Gnome's Fade Away.
#48 nb_nmare Dec 27, 2011 17:00:56	Racial proficiencies with superior weapons is generally considered a no-no because that makes it a mechanically significant feature rather than a mechanically insignificant one. I did consider this, but double scimitar and Xen'drik boomerang are rather weak compared to other superior weapons. In fact, Xen'drik boomerang is mechnanically identical to to the chatkcha, which is a military weapon. Stop comparing racial features to class features. That is not a balanced comparison. What are you talking about? Level 1 class features and racial features are both gained at 1st level, so of course they're a balance comparison. Nature Resistance also has better scaling than Poison Adaptation does Errr... no? 5 per tier is pretty much the same as 5 + one-half level; level 11 = 10 versus 10, and level 21 = 15 versus 15.  Proficiency with a couple of weak hammers is a fluff feature. It's still equivalent to a feat.
#49 Mist-Bound Dec 27, 2011 17:17:59	Just for comparison's sake, I thought I may as well post up the remaining racial profiles from the Corebook; I know NB_Mare says he's found them elsewhere on line, but... I don't know, I guess it's mainly so I can feel I'm actually contributing something useful to my own topic. WoWarcraft D20 Ironforge Dwarf * +2 Stamina, -2 Charisma * Medium * Base land speed 20 feet, does not suffer movement penalties due to wearing medium/heavy armor or carrying a medium/heavy load * Darkvision 60 feet * Stability: +4 racial bonus to ability checks made to resist being bullrushed or tripped when standing on the ground * Stonecunning: +2 racial bonus to checks to notice unusual stonework, can make a Search check for stonework traps as a rogue, can automatically sense their approximate depth underground * Weapon Familiarity: Long Rifles, Flintlock Pistols, Dwarven Waraxes and Dwarven Battle & Tossing Hammers are Martial weapons for Ironforge Dwarves rather than Exotic weapons * +2 racial bonus on saving throws vs. poison * + racial bonus on Appraise and Craft checks related to stone or metal items, +2 on Craft checks related to gunsmithing WoWarcraft D20 Ironforge Dwarf Racial Class: Level 1: Base Attack Bonus +0, Fortitude Save +2, Reflex Save +0, Will Save +0, +2 racial bonus on attacks vs. giants, Stoneflesh (Supernatural Ability; once per day gain a +2 natural bonus to AC per level in Ironforge Dwarf, lasting a number of rounds equal to Stamina modifier + racial class level), gain proficiency in long rifle, flintlock pistol, dwarven waraxe, dwarven battle hammer or dwarven tossing hammer Level 2: Base Attack Bonus +1, Fortitude Save +2, Reflex Save +0, Will Save +1, gain proficiency in long rifle, flintlock pistol, dwarven waraxe, dwarven battle hammer or dwarven tossing hammer, +4 dodge bonus to AC vs. giants Level 3: Base Attack Bonus +2, Fortitude Save +3, Reflex Save +1, Will Save +1, gain proficiency in long rifle, flintlock pistol, dwarven waraxe, dwarven battle hammer or dwarven tossing hammer, +3 racial bonus on saving throws vs spells and spell-like effects WoWarcraft D20 High Elf: * +2 Intellect, -2 Stamina * Medium * Base land speed 30 feet * Lowlight Vision * Magic Addiction: A High Elf must spend 1 hour each morning in meditation to resist the distractions of addiction or else suffer a -1 penalty to effective caster level for all arcane spells and a -2 penality on all saving throws vs. spells for the rest of the day. Magic Addiction is negated if the High Elf is within 50 feet of a moonwell, and drinking from a moonwell negates Magic Addiction for a number of days equal to the High Elf's Spirit modifier (minimum 1 day). * Racial Animosity: High Elves suffer a -2 circumstance penalty to all Charisma-based skill checks made when relating directly to Night Elves and Tauren * Weapon Proficiency: Longbow, Composite Longbow, Short Sword and Longsword * +2 racial bonus of saving throws against mind-affecting spells or effects * +2 racial bonus on Concentration, Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft skill checks, and these skills are always class skills for High Elves WoWarcraft D20 High Elf Racial Class: Level 1: Base Attack Bonus +0, Fortitude Save +0, Reflex Save +0, Will Save +2, +1 Agility, Spell-Like Abilities (The High Elf may, if it has an Intelligence of 10+, cast 4 level 0 spells from the Arcanist list each day as spell-like abilities, with a caster level as a mage of its racial level) Level 2: Base Attack Bonus +1, Fortitude Save +0, Reflex Save +1, Will Save +2, +1 Agility, Improved Caster Level (Extraordinary Ability, all Arcane spells (but not spell-like abilities) are cast at +1 caster level) Level 3: Base Attack Bonus +2, Fortitude Save +1, Reflex Save +1, Will Save +3, Empower Magic (Extraordinary Ability, once per day the High Elf may apply the Empower Spell feat to an Arcane spell as it is cast, without increasing the time to cast it or making it use a higher level spell slot) WoWarcraft D20 Night Elf: * +2 Spirit, -2 Charisma * Medium * Base land speed 30 feet * Lowlight Vision * +2 racial bonus on Knowledge (nature) and Survival checks, these are always class skills for Night Elves * Weapon Familiarity: Moonglaives, Moon Swords and Warglaives are Martial Weapons for Night Elves WoWarcraft D20 Night Elf Racial Class: Level 1: Base Attack Bonus +0, Fortitude Save +0, Reflex Save +0, Will Save +2, Shadowmeld (Supernatural Ability; whilst stationary, the Night Elf receives a +10 circumstancial bonus to Stealth checks made at night or in low light), bonus weapon proficiency (moonglaive, moon sword or warglaive), +2 racial bonus on Balance and Tumble checks Level 2: Base Attack Bonus +1, Fortitude Save +0, Reflex Save +1, Will Save +2, bonus weapon proficiency (moonglaive, moon sword or warglaive), Resistances (Extraordinary Ability; Resist Fire 2 and Resist Cold 2, both increase by +1 per four character levels) Level 3: Base Attack Bonus +2, Fortitude Save +1, Reflex Save +1, Will Save +3, bonus weapon proficiency (moonglaive, moon sword or warglaive), +2 Agility, +2 racial bonus on saves vs. Arcane magic WoWarcraft D20 Gnome: * +2 Intellect, +2 Charisma, -2 Strength * Small * Base land speed 20 feet * Lowlight Vision * +2 racial bonus on all Craft & Listen checks * +1 racial bonus on all saving throws * Technological Feat: Gnomes begin play with a bonus feat chosen from the list of Tinker bonus feats WoWarcraft D20 Goblin: * +2 Agility, -2 Strength * Small * Base land speed 20 feet * Lowlight Vision * Weapon Familiarity: Flintlock pistols and long rifles are Martial Weapons for Goblins * Technological Feat: Goblins begin play with a bonus feat chosen from the list of Tinker bonus feats * +2 racial bonus on Appraise, Craft (Alchemy), Diplomacy and Listen checks, and these skills are always class skills for Goblins * +2 racial bonus on all Craft checks involving adamantine items * +3 racial bonus on Craft (Technological Device) checks and Craft (Technological Device) is always a class skill for Goblins WoWarcraft D20 Human: * Medium * Base land speed 30 feet * +1 feat at 1st level * +4 extra skill points at 1st level and +1 extra skill point at all levels thereafter * +2 racial bonus on saving throws vs. fear * +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy, Gather Information and Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty) checks, these are always class skills for Humans * +2 racial bonus on all Craft checks involving mithril items * +1 racial bonus on attack rolls vs. Orcs
#50 Crimson_Concerto Dec 27, 2011 17:37:16	I did consider this, but double scimitar and Xen'drik boomerang are rather weak compared to other superior weapons. In fact, Xen'drik boomerang is mechnanically identical to to the chatkcha, which is a military weapon. I know, and given that this is just an alternative feature and that the weapons offered are pretty weak, it's not that bad, but I'm just saying I wouldn't make a habit of thinking that this kind of feature is okay. What are you talking about? Level 1 class features and racial features are both gained at 1st level, so of course they're a balance comparison. No, they are most certainly not. If any race got Sneak Attack as a racial feature, we would all plainly see that this was far too powerful. When you balance a game element, you have to look at where it comes from. Feats are balanced differently from racial features are balanced different from class features and so on. If you homebrew a feat, then it has to be balanced against other feats. If you homebrew racial feature, then it has to be balanced against other racial features. Errr... no? 5 per tier is pretty much the same as 5 + one-half level No, I'm pretty sure that 5 + half level is objectively better. 5 per tier is equal to 5 + half level at levels 1, 11, and 21, but it's weaker by anywhere between 1 and 5 points at levels 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, and 30. That is not pretty much the same. It's still equivalent to a feat. It is most certainly not, because it provides no real benefit. It's just there for fluff. Characters of classes that would use those weapons already gain those profociencies, and characters of classes that do not already gain those proficiencies would not use those weapons. It is of incredibly marginal benefit to some Artifiers, Bards, and Clerics, but that's not enough to consider it a mechanically significant feature and certainly not to consider it equivalent to a whole feat for purposes of a balance comparison.
#51 rampant Dec 27, 2011 18:59:05	THe mace is a weapon group, does the ironforge dwarf treat all maces as one step larger? HOnestly this is the reason I've never liked wow style races, because people get obsessed about representing the mechanics of the race from a video game into dnd and trying to port everything whole hog. Weapon abilities are not appropriate for 4e races, and no matter how many times the designers screw up it doesn't make it a good idea.
#52 nb_nmare Dec 28, 2011 8:29:51	No, they are most certainly not. If any race got Sneak Attack as a racial feature, we would all plainly see that this was far too powerful. When you balance a game element, you have to look at where it comes from. Feats are balanced differently from racial features are balanced different from class features and so on. If you homebrew a feat, then it has to be balanced against other feats. If you homebrew racial feature, then it has to be balanced against other racial features. When deciding on the power level of an individual racial trait, you do have to take into consideration the total number of traits that races has. However, if you're only giving it two traits plus an encounter power, something equivalent to a decent heroic tier feat is perfect. It's similar with classes. In fact, some class features and racial traits of course *are* feats. The obvious racial example is the human's Bonus Feat, and there's also the likes of Archer Fighting Style, which simply gives you Defensive Mobility.  Of course, there are feats that are similar to certain racial traits yet are more powerful, and there are racial traits that are similar to certain feats yet are more powerful. For example, Disciple of Madness (+2 bonus to saves vs. daze, dominate, stun, and ongoing damage, shift 1 square and gain +2 bonus to all defenses when you save vs. one of these effects) is clearly better than Defended Mind (+2 bonus to saves vs. daze, dominate, and stun), while Dragonborn Fury (+1 bonus to attack rolls while you're bloodied) is obviously superior to Offensive Resilience (+1 bonus to attack rolls when you use your second wind while you're bloodied).  When I talk about comparing racial traits to 1st level class features, I'm not referring to role defining class features or powers, but rather to lesser class features and powers gained at 1st level. I mean, something similar to Healer's Lore would be perfectly fine for a racial trait... provided it was suitable for the race in question, of course ;). (Yes, Healer's Lore would only suited to particular role, but I'm not referring to that specific feature, merely something of the same power level that would be useful for all roles; adding your primary ability modifier to the hitpoints you regain whenever you're targeted by a healing power, for example.) No, I'm pretty sure that 5 + half level is objectively better. 5 per tier is equal to 5 + half level at levels 1, 11, and 21, but it's weaker by anywhere between 1 and 5 points at levels 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, and 30. That is not pretty much the same. Yes, but 4 or 5 points more resistance at a handful of levels really is just a minor advantage at best. It is most certainly not, because it provides no real benefit. From the feats section of the Player's Handbook: Weapon Proficiency     Benefit: You gain proficiency in a single weapon of your choice.
#53 ciaran Dec 28, 2011 8:32:46	I agree with rampant that you mustn't try to so closely duplicate the 3rd edition abilities. I think the "training in a skill or +2 bonus" is stretching it. I personally don't mind minor racial features like proficiency in one weapon, but training in a specific skill is taking it too far (IMHO). Thats what the two +2 to skills represent.
#54 nb_nmare Dec 28, 2011 8:33:28	THe mace is a weapon group, does the ironforge dwarf treat all maces as one step larger? The mace as in the weapon, not the group. Yes, I really wish they had given the weapon and the group different names ;). (Same with the flail and the spear.) HOnestly this is the reason I've never liked wow style races, because people get obsessed about representing the mechanics of the race from a video game into dnd and trying to port everything whole hog. Weapon abilities are not appropriate for 4e races, and no matter how many times the designers screw up it doesn't make it a good idea.  The reason weapon-related abilities aren't suitable for races is because racial traits are just that: racial, not cultural. None of the races I've posted, here or elsewhere, have weapon-related abilities. In fact, I eventually intend to come up with some replacement traits for dwarves, eladrin, elves, etc that rid them of their cultural elements. However, in my view cultural traits are absolutely fine for subraces, since many subraces are based on cultural and not biological differences. Okay, you could argue that biological or otherwise intrinsic traits are being replaced by cultural talents (though I would point out that most of the weapon-related subrace traits I've posted are in fact replacements for other weapon-related traits). In that case, all you (or your DM) needs to do is state that all cultural subrace traits are feats, not replacements for racial traits.
#55 nb_nmare Dec 28, 2011 8:43:52	I agree with rampant that you mustn't try to so closely duplicate the 3rd edition abilities. I think the "training in a skill or +2 bonus" is stretching it. I personally don't mind minor racial features like proficiency in one weapon, but training in a specific skill is taking it too far (IMHO). Thats what the two +2 to skills represent. The whole point of the exercise is to port the WoW races to 4th Edition. A WoW goblin without an extensive interest and talent for creating and tinkering with mechanical things (Arcana being the closest we can really get in 4E without bringing Craft back) is not a WoW goblin. Not to mention that its other traits and powers wouldn't really make sense without it ("yeah, I've never learned how to do metalwork or been shown how to work with explosives. Hey, have you seen these cool rockets I made?"). A +2 bonus simply doesn't cut it.   If the goal was simply to play a 4E race that's relatively similar to its WoW counterpart, we might as well leave every existing race as it is, and just add those races that don't exist in 4th Edition at all. Heck, a lot of those could be simulated by refluffing a 4E race that has somewhat similar abilities. But hey, guess what forum we're in? :D
#56 rampant Dec 28, 2011 11:47:06	Hmmmmmm you may have a point about the sub-race swap. However the ironforge dwarf's weapon ability seems a lot stronger than the ability it replaces.
#57 nb_nmare Dec 28, 2011 12:02:47	Hmmmmmm you may have a point about the sub-race swap. However the ironforge dwarf's weapon ability seems a lot stronger than the ability it replaces.  Only at first glance. The two weapons it benefits are both simple weapons, and this option brings their damage output up to that of martial weapons; 1d8 -> 1d10 for the mace, making it the equivalent of a warhammer (which regular dwarves gain proficiency with), and 1d10 -> 1d12 for the morningstar, making it the equivalent of a greataxe (except it still doesn't have the high crit property). If the latter seems too overpowered, I could swap it for the same bonus with the club.
#58 Crimson_Concerto Dec 28, 2011 13:52:47	Of course, there are feats that are similar to certain racial traits yet are more powerful, and there are racial traits that are similar to certain feats yet are more powerful. Yes, this is my point. They are not balanced the same way. If you homebrew a feat that grants characters the entire "Flurry of Blows" class feature and then claim that it's balanced because clearly Monks get it at 1st level and are not overpowered, you're going to get laughed at because that's not a valid balance comparison because those are two entirely different game elements balanced in different ways. Such a feat would only be balanced if it could be shown to be balanced compared to other feats. Yes, but 4 or 5 points more resistance at a handful of levels really is just a minor advantage at best. 5+half has 4 or 5 more points of resistance than 5/tier at 9 levels, levels 8, 9, 10, 18, 19, 20, 28, 29, and 30. That's almost a third of all levels. That's not a "handful"; that's a significant chunk. From the feats section of the Player's Handbook: Weapon Proficiency Benefit: You gain proficiency in a single weapon of your choice. That is not a real benefit when it comes to racial proficiencies exactly because racial proficiencies only offer proficiencies with military weapons at best. The characters that would care about using the weapons in questions are characters of classes that already gain those proficiencies anyway, so the feature is useless. The characters whose classes don't already gain those proficicies are characters that don't care to be using the weapons in question anyway (example: Warlock, Wizard, Sorcerer), so the feature is useless. You can look at it in a vacuum and make the mistake of thinking that it provides a benefit, but the reality is that it's totally useless to all but a small handful of characters (some Artificers, some Bards, and some Clerics), none of which are ever very much concerned with what kind of weapon they're using anyway. It is a fluff feature, like Trance. It simply does not count. Plus, the Weapon Proficiency feat is balanced around its being used to obtain a superior weapon exactly because of that. Nobody would use it to obtain a military weapon and seriously claim that use is as legitimate as using it to obtain a superior weapon. That would be a clear waste of the feat's actual potential.
#59 Mist-Bound Dec 30, 2011 2:37:45	Okay, while folks are still debating over the racial writeups from the corebook, I just thought I might list up the races in the Alliance & Horde Player's Guides: APG: Wildhammer Dwarf Furbolg Half-Elf (High Elf by default, notes for Half-Night Elf and Half-Blood Elf included) Ancient Protector (Creature Class) Dryad & Keeper of the Grove (Creature Classes) Mountain Giant (Creature Class) HPG: Half-Ogre (Mok'nathal (Orc/Ogre) by default, notes for Half-Ogre/Human included) Half-Orc Abomination (Creature Class) Centaur (Creature Class) Ogre & Ogre Mage (Creature Classes) Blood Elves aren't included in any of these, but I believe they show up - possibly with a more detailed Half-Blood Elf - in the Monster Guide, which I have managed to acquire but hasn't arrived yet. Interestingly, the only new races added to the MMORPG after the Tabletop RPG was cancelled were the Draenei and the Worgen... I don't suppose it would be possible to do 4e versions of them?
#60 Mist-Bound Jan 07, 2012 17:37:34	Just giving this topic a bump, and seeing if there's any interest to be had in it. It was doing pretty well to begin with...
#61 rampant Jan 08, 2012 3:04:22	I find that on these kinds of threads it helps me if the OP keeps a current model of the homebrew on the first post. That way everyone can check the current model real quick instead of trying to puzzle out two or three different posts onf different pages possible bydifferent authors. We have no clue what you're thinking about our suggestions so we can't modify them.
#62 Mist-Bound Jan 08, 2012 3:12:42	When there was last activity here, there was a big debate on-going between nb_nmare and Crimson_Concerto about the former's suggestions for racial profiles. I had no idea what I should (or even could) say, and so I kept my mouth shut. I simply had nothing meaningful to interject to their discussion. As for modding the first post... Alright, thank you for suggesting that, I'll get on it.
#63 rampant Jan 08, 2012 4:02:24	The troll's crafty hunter should probably go like this: Your attacks ignore partial cover when the target grants you combat advantage.
#64 rampant Jan 09, 2012 19:56:42	Goblin needs some real work. Ok Why is it so hard for people to give out more than two skill bonuses for a race without making it into a feature. Give gobbos a +2 to arcana as a third skill boos instead of the arcan curiosity thing. The qualification on rocket jump doesn't make much sense, I mean isn't that already how jump rules work? The rockets as racial power in general strike me as a bad idea. What you could do is give them the ability to add explosive properties to their next attack, as a sort of utility power, like promise of storm but less sucky.
#65 nb_nmare Jan 10, 2012 1:36:32	Give gobbos a +2 to arcana as a third skill boos instead of the arcan curiosity thing. See above for why I don't think that makes any sense for this particular race. The qualification on rocket jump doesn't make much sense, I mean isn't that already how jump rules work? Normally, the number of squares you can jump is determined by an Athletics check divided by 10. If you choose to jump vertically, you add your character's height + 1/3, and the result is the number of feet you can jump leap up (so basically you divide the result by 5), and you can't jump any distance horizontally. Even if your Athletics check was 50 and your character was 8 foot tall, you could only leap up 3 squares.  If you choose to jump horizontally, the result is the number of squares you can leap across, and the distance you can jump vertically is one-quarter the distance you jump horizontally. With a check of 50, you could leap across 5 squares and jump up 1 square.  This power requires no Athletics check, allows you to jump a flat 10 squares, and you can use it to (for example) jump 5 squares vertically and 5 squares horizontally, or a full 10 squares either horizontally or vertically. The rockets as racial power in general strike me as a bad idea. What you could do is give them the ability to add explosive properties to their next attack, as a sort of utility power, like promise of storm but less sucky. That doesn't really make much sense. "You can only fire your rockets when you make an attack with a weapon or use an offensive spell." Sorry, what? Why?
#66 rampant Jan 10, 2012 2:34:11	Can't find what you're refering to for the arcane curiosity, mind explaining it again? As for the rockets I was suggesting that we remove them completely in favor of a power that could be used to upgrade any attack, so it could be supercharging a spell, or punching someone with a grenade. Upon further reflection a dodge roll or bounce type power might be more appropriate.