The trickiest part is deciding whether the class should be a Defender or Striker, or even some other role, which is made even more difficult by the fact that he refuses to budge an inch on anything. The class MUST have very specific weapon and armor proficiencies, class abilities and powers to emulate the samurai feel, everything.
I know hes asking for way too much, but does anyone know of a homebrewed samurai out there, or have any good suggestions for a place to start? I want to come up with something that satisfies my friend because id prefer not to have to hear more '4e is too restricted' whines, but im also not going to make an uber-class for him in a game with 3 other players. Any help would be appreciated.
SvD
I haven't seen any hombrewed samurai.
If you give me an idea of what specific armors and class abilities he is wanting, I could give it a shot.
I haven't seen any hombrewed samurai.
The equipment is actually the only part that isn't a problem per se; he wants samurai to only be proficient with heavy armors (Chain, scale, plate) and a very small weapon list, but i flat-out said no to that for all the reasons you might guess.
As for class abilities, he wants Abilities/powers to approximate the following: Iaijutsu techniques, a built-in 'Samurai Code'(like previous edition paladins/samurai with their silly codes), Class abilities/Power trees that can approximate fighting with katana+wakizahi, which he firmly believes must be dex based because its 'all about accuracy over damage', and a second Ability/power set for two-handing the 'Katana'.
He also wants the class to be uber-specialized in one-on-one duels, though i may have come up with a variation of the fighter/paladin mark to facilitate that. Theres more, but i don't have my notes about the class onhand right now. So, anyone have ideas?
SvD
Replace the Fighter's Combat Challenge with this-
Still, I'll give it a shot if you want.
Take my suggested changes, maybe toned down if they're overpowered.
Give himself a decent dexterity score, dual wield a bastard sword and a short sword, and pick up some of the light-blade fighter powers from Dragon. Additionally, he can take the two weapon fighting feats. They will help him out. Hey, if you're nice, they can even count as him using a shield after he picks up Two Weapon Defense.
That's just my two copper. Sorry if its not terribly useful.
Make a Fighter, whatever race.
Flavor Scale armor as Lamellar armor with the same mechanics. Flavor the Bastard sword as a Katana with the same mechanics, also the Shortsword as a Wakisashi, same mechanics. To get magical weapons and armor, simply let him keep those he have, but upgrade them to "normal magical" +X items, with him simply spending the appropiate gold at the appropiate level. Flavor-wise it's still the same swords and armor, he just trains, meditates and keeps them in prime conditions.
He's going to need decent dex for a lot of feats with scale and blades, which is in line with a samurai character. 13 is a good start at level 1
Suggested heroic feats: Action surge (Human), Alertness, Blade oppurtunist, Combat reflexes, Elven precision (Elf), Human perseverance (Human), Improved initiative, Long jumper, Quick draw, Sure climber, Toughness, Two-weapon fighting, Two-weapon defense, Weapon focus.
Suggested paragon feats: Action recovery (Human), Agile athlete, Armor specialization (Scale), Combat anticipation, Danger sense, Devastating critical, Evasion, Fleet-footed, Great fortitude, Heavy blade opportunity, Improved second wind, Iron will, Lightning reflexes, Mettle, Uncanny dodge
Suggested epic feats: Epic resurgence, Heavy blade mastery, Triumphant attack, Two-weapon flurry (if the Dex is enough)
Suggested powers: Any powers that rely on Dex and/or Heavy blades. Also let him reflavor the names, such as "Heron dancing over water"
Suggested skills: Athletics. Maybe History if he's willing to spend the feat.
Alternatives: If he don't want to dual-wield, the Bastard sword is a very decent weapon as versatile. If you allow it, he could use the Greatsword or Fullblade (from AV) and flavor it as a Dai-katana, moving him to a Great weapon Samurai (Fighter)
EDIT: NVM about this wall, I didn't read the OP properly
2) Rename each Fighter Power, and give each new flavour text.
3) Place the finished product in front of him, with the word "Samurai" emblazened on the top.
4) Enjoy. If he's honestly one of "those people" who need the exact fluff of their character handed to them by the class, and actually think that their character goes around telling people what their class name is instead of calling themselves whatever the hell they want, maybe he will be stupid enough to fall for this.
1) Take a Fighter.
2) Rename each Fighter Power, and give each new flavour text.
3) Place the finished product in front of him, with the word "Samurai" emblazened on the top.
4) Enjoy. If he's honestly one of "those people" who need the exact fluff of their character handed to them by the class, and actually think that their character goes around telling people what their class name is instead of calling themselves whatever the hell they want, maybe he will be stupid enough to fall for this.
and/or have him read Order of the Stick.
What did Miyako (or w/e) call herself? a samurai.
what was her class? paladin.
1) Take a Fighter.
2) Rename each Fighter Power, and give each new flavour text.
3) Place the finished product in front of him, with the word "Samurai" emblazened on the top.
4) Enjoy. If he's honestly one of "those people" who need the exact fluff of their character handed to them by the class, and actually think that their character goes around telling people what their class name is instead of calling themselves whatever the hell they want, maybe he will be stupid enough to fall for this.
I'd say do the same with a dex based rogue/ranger multi class if he wants it to be based on dex. Also open the old book, copy the code out of it, and staple it to the front of the class.
1) Take a Fighter.
2) Rename each Fighter Power, and give each new flavour text.
3) Place the finished product in front of him, with the word "Samurai" emblazened on the top.
4) Enjoy. If he's honestly one of "those people" who need the exact fluff of their character handed to them by the class, and actually think that their character goes around telling people what their class name is instead of calling themselves whatever the hell they want, maybe he will be stupid enough to fall for this.
This. Or use ranger or rouge since he wants to be dex based.
This. Or use ranger or rouge since he wants to be dex based.
some more suggestions for the ranger reflavor:
remove the ability to use non-offhand weapons as off hand weapons.
add bastard sword proficiency.
reflavor bastard sword as a katana and a short sword as a wakazashi.
say "here, stop your *****ing."
I doubt he'll even notice the difference.
Boy, I love how half the posts ignore the fact that he knows the guy is asking too much but wants to try and make his player happy.
You and me both. I mean, yeah, I'm a little critical of it, but only because the player seems selfish. If every player expected this of their DM...
But on the flip side, I'm the same way. I'm designing a multiclass-only class for one of my players so that she can have her Void powers back with her warlock (or wizard, she hasn't decided.)
In the mean time, I've done a sample write up for such a class, with 1st and second level powers. If anybody wants to give it a once over, it's here.
I ignored the Dex based attacks, although dex remains useful to the powers, and if you provide a code of conduct, I'd be happy to stick it into the PDF.
If your fine with whats in here, I'll build on it some more.
Boy, I love how half the posts ignore the fact that he knows the guy is asking too much but wants to try and make his player happy.
I'd like to point out that i took that into account and told him to grow a pair in spite of the fact... because his player needs a reality check.
Ah good ol' void points a great mechanic stolen right from L5R.
There's really not much more to be said here...
But since historically, "Samurai" was a a social class and not a combat style, the class should probably be called "Kenjutsu Master" or something like that.
Boy, I love how half the posts ignore the fact that he knows the guy is asking too much but wants to try and make his player happy.
Hey, I knew that full well. I mean, I only called his PLAYER an idiot. :P
But since historically, "Samurai" was a a social class and not a combat style, the class should probably be called "Kenjutsu Master" or something like that.
Yeah, wasn't there like a ninja samurai or something like that?
SvD
Yeah, i pretty much told my player that hed have to live with a modified version of an existing class. He whined about it, then complained that 4e 'restricted his freedom' too much, so i dropped him from the game. Sad, but oh well, i've got 3 other players that aren't being as much of a pain. Thanks for the help guys, and i'll probably still use some of the cool mechanics you all came up with for other stuff.
SvD
What's his name so i know not to play with him?
.This site is pretty safe, I also think it is a nice resource. Bookmark recommended.
The main site is: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page
The Samurai classes I found:
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Samurai_(DnD_Class)
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Samurai_master
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Sublime_Samurai_(DnD_Class)
That's all I have for you. That site has a nice selection of homebrew classes.
Take the at-will and just reflavor some attacks. All a Samurai is is a Fighter with a moral code.
All a Samurai is is a Fighter with a moral code.
Quite right. However, his player was "demanding" (I use that term lightly) that the samurai not be a reflavored fighter, but an entirely new class based around things that already exist in different classes. Its a little frustrating that he's not willing to accept this fact.
All a Samurai is is a Fighter with a moral code.
I beg to differ... A Samurai is a warrior with a moral code.
I mean a warrior is anyone who fights. So I suppose your samurai could be a ranger with a moral code... Or a rogue... Or a...
see where I'm going? "Fighter" had the best fit as far as "purpose" goes.
(Italics optional)
Choose between styles:
-Two Swords as One (Samurai Class Feature: You have a +1 bonus to attacks when you wield two weapons. Your off-hand weapon uses the same damage dice as your main-hand weapon.
-One Sword as Two (Samurai Class feature): When you are wielding a versatile weapon and no shield you are treated as though you are wielding either one or two weapons whichever is more beneficial. (IE: you are wielding one and two at the same time)
Quick Draw: You gain Quick Draw as a bonus feat.
Duel: You may designate an opponent as your duel. You deal an additional 1d6 (increase 1d6 per tier) damage against you duel. You may deal this damage no more than once per round. Whenever your duel moves away from you you may make a basic melee attack against them.
^Just food for thought, I may make an actual class^
Heck, I was even willing to hombrew it. Although I admit I was going to steal whole cloth from the ranger and paladin for powers.
Heh. You could pull a fast one, just edit the Fighter wholesale, rename all its stuff and see if he catches on ...
Heh. You could pull a fast one, just edit the Fighter wholesale, rename all its stuff and see if he catches on ...
Hahah, that's what I was thinking since post one of this thread. Seriously though, I don't see why you would want a "unique" class for Samurai.
Hahah, that's what I was thinking since post one of this thread. Seriously though, I don't see why you would want a "unique" class for Samurai.
Some people are hidebound when it comes to things like that. a part of me is also thinking he wants access to something like the Iajutsu focus skill, which had the potential be seriously abusive.
Fighter + Kensai + Quick Draw = Samurai, and you're done.
People jst get so hung up on having what they want. I say if you want your own custom class you make it yourself, and I tell you whether it's allowed. If it isn't just go rebalance it.
Cuts down people demanding their own little niche class that only they will ever use.
But changing the game for the sake of one's players isn't a problem. In an Eberron game, one of my players wanted to be a Courtesan. Not a Rogue or a Bard, a Courtesan. We based the class off the Rogue but with specific skills suited to her character concept. Basically swapping feats for class features and vice-versa.
In another setting, another of my players wanted to play an elf with wings. I didn't have Races of the Wild, so hadn't heard of a flying race, so we home-brewed wings for her as two feats, and balanced it against giving her character a flaw. The wings weren't overpowered, because I took them into account while designing adventures.
In both instances the race or class was made cooperatively with the player, and worked nicely. And they worked well in play; the Courtesan used her skills well and was an accomplished socially-centered spy from the beginning. I made adventure points in the other game where being able to fly was "cool" and where it was needed to further the plot. Working with my players has made the game more fun for them, and that has made it more satisfying for me.
I cook up what I need whenI need it, and if someone wants something I tell them to create the draft.
It ensures that the class is what they want, and that I'm not distracted from my own work.
Volia. Level 1 samouri.
Fighter with the Rogue multiclass feat for Bluff. At the beginning of combat, you stand around with your hand on your swordhilt, using bluff for combat advantage... then draw and Brute Strike+sneak attack = Iajitsu strike.
Volia. Level 1 samouri.
Given how this guy's mindset is with requiring a specific class to roleplay a specific attitude, I'd bet you twenty bucks he'd refuse to multiclass rogue because 'they're always untrustworthy thieves and murderers'.
Given how this guy's mindset is with requiring a specific class to roleplay a specific attitude, I'd bet you twenty bucks he'd refuse to multiclass rogue because 'they're always untrustworthy thieves and murderers'.
I really can't understand someone being that way. Especially if every step of the way we're like, "This is how to give your Samurai Iajutsu Strike or his Ancestral Katana," one would think it would at least be interesting to him. Maybe he's like someone who wants sausage (or a law passed) but doesn't want to see how it's done. If so, present him with a finished product and let him have fun with it.
(of course, it's academic at this point, but it's still an interesting exercise)
Given how this guy's mindset is with requiring a specific class to roleplay a specific attitude, I'd bet you twenty bucks he'd refuse to multiclass rogue because 'they're always untrustworthy thieves and murderers'.
Thats why you make a custom feat for him, that is word for word the same thing. Aside from the title and flavor text.
Also give the Samurai a class feature that gives him additionnal damage on critical hits right off the bat... maybe even equip him with a Vanguard sword (+1D8 on charges) for some mobility flavor.
Change the flavour text to:
Samurai are distinguished from ordinaryfighters by their adherence to bushido, a code of honor, loyalty, and obedience. Samurai are professional warriors, members of the noble class who are trained in the arts of warfare. They are not only trained for their role in society, they are born for it-born into a system of allegiance, loyalty, and honor that influences every stage of their lives. A samurai cut loose from this system is no longer a samurai; he is an ordinary fighter, a ronin with no honor and no standing in society. A samurai's first responsibility is obedience to his lord, usually the head of his family. This is simultaneously an endless source of adventures and a potential hindrance to a life of adventure. Alow-level samurai's lord may command him
to investigate a mysterious occurrence or subdue a gang of bandits . Ifhe performs these duties well, his lord will call on him to deal with more significant problems. However, a samurai usually cannot simply disappear on an expedition into the Shadowlands without his lord's command or at least permission, and if a samurai's lord has an important mission for him, he must make that his top priority.
Change the class ability names to:
Combat Challenge -> Blades of Honour
Combat Superiority -> Swift Blades of Justice
Fighter Weapon Talent -> Kenjutsu Style
He'll either follow the traditional style (1 katana) in which case just give him a longsword, call it a katana and be done with it. If he wants to go two-weapon style, throw a short sword in the other hand and call it a day.
Cleave -> Iaijutsu ("Your blade cuts cleanly through your opponents body, unhindered by flesh and bone")
...and so on and so on.
P.S. Show him this thread. Seriously, make him see the excellent arguments for reflavouring.
In 3.5e I had a knifefighter, stealthy and using throwing knives with deadly precision. Class? Certainly not rogue. He was a Warlock, picking Eldritch Shapes (getting extra range and so on) and Utilities (plusses to social skills, spiderclimb etc.)