Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 pyromancer999 Aug 11, 2009 17:18:23	Every day, I go on these forums and find "Classless system for 4e!" or "No Class 4e". Now, I'm not saying that you have to be content with one class, so, here's some ways you can have a class, but still get bits of other classes: -Swap one class feature for another(For example, trading a Rogue's Sneak Attack for Warlock's Shadow Walk) - Allow access to powers of any class you multiclass into -(This one can be a bit extreme) Allow Character access to all powers of its role (For example: A Rogue would have access to all powers granted to Striker classes, and a Shaman would have access to all powers granted to Leader classes) What do you all think of these methods?
#2 PrimeSonic Aug 11, 2009 17:31:41	The reason you see a lot of "classless" topics is because there do exist several classless tabletop rpgs out there and there's a good number of people that like playing that style. Personally, I love it, but 4th still gives me enough options to personalize a class to my liking. As far as quick systems for classless play, the simple answer is that there is no simple answer. Taking a highly class structured system and splitting it apart into a classless system is no easy task and it's almost guaranteed to overpower the PCs. I'd recommend staying away from turning D&D classless unless your players insist on it. And really, if they're insisting on playing classless, maybe you should consider a different rpg to begin with. If all you're trying to do is answer at what you see on the forums but you don't plan on using this yourself, I wouldn't waste my time in your place. Let them go crazy finding an effective classless variant and you just go about your normal gaming, enjoying the game every bitas much as the next guy. Sorry if I sound a bit harsh here. I'm just trying to keep you from the horrors of turning a class-based system into a classless one. Believe me, I've tried. There's no simple solution and usualy it only complicates things even more.
#3 pyromancer999 Aug 12, 2009 9:02:27	This was posted both for some quick fixes to some people's discontent with classes, and also for PEACHING for use in my game, as people in my group want to implement these things.
#4 slobo777a Aug 12, 2009 10:24:38	Making this a full, workable house rule that you can share with other groups is a big task. Assessing an individual's request to drop feature X and replace with a different class's feature Y on a case-by-case basis is subjective, and might take a little flexibility from player and DM. This is very do-able, but is difficult to phrase as a house rule for PEACH-ing. I recommend that as opposed to the Odyssey you might otherwise embark upon before you are able to actually play. PEACH as-is . . . Your house-rule as written is open up to optimisation abuse. For example, many defenders would happily pick some striker additional damage ability if they could swap it with some minor defendery thing that they were not optmised for. If you are in a group with a strong power-gamer angle, this would be a problem. If you are not, and can trust the players to generally ask for "fair" swaps, are happy yourself to sit in judgement on what is "too powerful", then it is very workable, and yes may stop players feeling as bound by the class descriptions.
#5 pyromancer999 Aug 12, 2009 10:49:24	Sorry, Didn't put this down before: The Class features would have to be equivalent
#6 slobo777a Aug 12, 2009 11:48:36	Sorry, Didn't put this down before: The Class features would have to be equivalent What do you mean by "equivalent"? How is that to be assessed? For instance, do you intend to create an approved list of "equivalent" powers? If you mean just swapping Hunter's Quarry with Warlock's Curse for instance, then yes this is generally going to be reasonably balanced. However, if a Rogue wanted to drop Sneak Attack, and instead have marks that work like a Fighter's I am less sure about the knock-on effects of this . . . the powers are "equivalent" in that they are both major class features, but as for balance, I am clueless about the impact. I'd probably let a player have a go with this swap if they were really keen I suppose . . . with the understanding that I or the player could veto it at any later stage.
#7 pyromancer999 Aug 12, 2009 17:45:32	Yeah, it'd be more like major class feature for major class feature. The equivalency thing mainly depends on the DM.