He will be a primal leader... and as such, all leaders have that little (special) encounter power for healing.
well my concept is good, but i think my numbers or effects eek OP cause it just dont seem right:
for one... i know it isnt in power format yet.. i am designing it then puttin it into a power.
but id like some feedback... is it OP, on par or UP agianst other leaders and above all, is it unique?
EDIT i transcribed it into power format if it makes it any easier
Primal Surge
You send a wave of surging force to jump start an ally’s will to survive. The force of this echoes to the allies around him and offers them strength and vitality.
Encounter* Healing, Primal
Immediate Reaction Close Burst 20
Trigger: you or an ally within burst is bloodied or is dying as a result of an attack or ongoing damage.
Special: you may use this power twice per encounter but only once per round. At 16th level you may use this power up to three times per encounter but only once per round.
Effect: if bloodied, the triggering ally may spend a healing surge. If dying, the ally may make a free death saving throw that does not count towards the three failure limit if unsuccessful.
Secondary Effect: Allies up to a number equal to your Wisdom modifier within Close burst 5 of the triggering ally regain hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier.
6th level: 1D4 + Wisdom modifier hit points regained.
11th level: 1D6 + Wisdom modifier hit points regained
16th level: 1D8 + Wisdom modifier hit points regained
21st level: 2D4 + Wisdom modifier hit points regained
26th level: 1D10 + Wisdom modifier hit points regained
I'd really appreciate any help with this... cheers and thanks in advance,
yours gratefully
Ifritus
Hmm, a death saving throw isn't exactly a saving thing, for if you just ordinarily heal the target they get up for free, though I see that your doing it becuase this power is an immediate reaction. It's a neat thought that it's spontaneous healing, but it won't help like the other leader's powers do, since the other leader's power lets them heal during a short rest.
Agreed with rampant due to the fact it would make things easier.
Don't worry about this power looking differnt from the others, as the Cleric + Warlord + Ardent have the same exact power for their healing. It's just the features that will change them, rather than the power itself. If you want it to be a special case, the fact it's an immediate reaction makes it one, just make it a healing surge, and then starting at the next growth level add +1d6 and so on and so fourth.
It may be better to add an effect rather than immediate reaction, as this limits your healing in a lot of cases, and maybe is too good in other places. Reccommend though if you want it to be a reaction, don't do additional healing to other units, since I see the reaction to be an effect. Just my ideas though.
thanks for the feedback: Version 2!!
Primal Surge
You send a wave of surging force to jump start an ally’s will to survive. The force of this echoes to the allies around him and offers them strength and vitality.
Encounter* Healing, Primal
Standard Action Close Burst 5
Special: you may use this power twice per encounter but only once per round. At 16th level you may use this power up to three times per encounter but only once per round.
Effect: you or one ally within range may spend a healing surge.
Secondary Effect: all allies adjacent to to the one spending the healing surge, regains hit points by a value equal to your Wisdom modifier.
6th level: 1D6 + Wis mod hp
11th level: 2D6 + Wis mod hp
16th level: 3d6 + Wis mod hp
21st level: 4d6 + Wis mod hp
26th level: 5d6 + wis mod hp
and i was plannin to give this power one class feat per tier:
any ideas.... I was thinking to make the secondary effect adjacent to both the ally and you, or you and the ally, depending on if its you spending the surge or an ally. put this in paragon or epic, with a wis 17/19 respectively prereq
thougts?
and have the secondary effect read: allies adjacent to the target
One feat could be to allow you to use this power in reaction to an ally getting bloodied, dropped to 0, or critted, another feat might be to extend the range from the target from adjacent to two squares.
You send a wave of surging force to jump start an ally’s will to survive. The force of this echoes to the allies around him and offers them strength and vitality.
Encounter* Healing, Primal
Standard Action Close Burst 5
Special: you may use this power twice per encounter but only once per round. At 16th level you may use this power up to three times per encounter but only once per round.
Target: you or one ally in burst
Effect: the target may spend a healing surge
Secondary Effect: all allies adjacent to to thetarget, regain hit points by a value equal to your Wisdom modifier.
6th level: 1D6 + Wis mod hp
11th level: 2D6 + Wis mod hp
16th level: 3d6 + Wis mod hp
21st level: 4d6 + Wis mod hp
26th level: 5d6 + wis mod hp
FEATS
HEROIC
VITAL SURGE
Prereq: Survivor, Primal Surge
Effect: the primary targer now also gains temporary hit points of a value equal to your Wisdom modifier
PARAGON
REACTION SURGE
Prereq: Survivor, Primal Surge
Effect: You may use the primal surge power as an immediate reaction for the following conditions: you or an ally within close burst 5 becomes: bloodied, or has a critical hit scored agaisnt them, or they are now dying.
EPIC
SURGE MAGNITUDE
Prerq: Survivor, Primal Surge
Effect: the secondary effect of the primal surge power can now include allies up to two sqaures away from the primary target
hows this.... cheers Rampant for the ideas. ( I was looking at it oddly trying to think of what I missed, but you found it... the target line!
Also some wording: You may use the primal surge power as an immediate reaction when an ally becomes bloodied, has a critical hit scored against them, or is dropped to 0 hp or less
Here is the rewording for feats (all of em had typos nyway
FEATS
HEROIC
VITAL SURGE
Prereq: Survivor, Primal Surge
Effect: the primary target now also gains temporary hit points of a value equal to your Wisdom modifier
PARAGON
REACTION SURGE
Prereq: Survivor, Primal Surge
Effect: You may use the primal surge power as an immediate reaction when an ally becomes bloodied, has a critical hit scored against them, or is dropped to 0 hp or less.
EPIC
SURGE MAGNITUDE
Prerq: Survivor, Primal Surge
Effect: the secondary effect of the primal surge power now includes allies up to two sqaures away from the primary target
So is that the leader power and it's feats sorted... Im kinda thinking i need to put in Wis 17/19 for the para/epic feats but thats just me.
Well if that's that... may I run my class features by you to make sure they are balanced enough?
Bring on the features dude.
why thanks... srry for the wait i was away for the day.
Ill put in the traits and the features, as flavour is really an important part of a class
SURVIVOR
“I have survived worse situations than this, and so will you!”
Class Traits
CLASS TRAITS
Role: leader. You invoke and strengthen the primal urge of survival that lies within your allies’ souls to enable them to survive the battle.
Power Source: Primal. Your link to the Primal Spirits is strong enough that you can pass on and harness their knowledge of survival techniques.
Key Abilities: Wisdom, Constitution, Dexterity, Charisma
Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, military melee, simple ranged; light shields
Bonus to Defense: +1 Reflex, +1 Fortitude, +1 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution Score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 7 + Constitution Modifier
Trained Skills: Nature. From the class skills list below choose 4 more trained skills at 1st level:
Class Skills: Acrobatics (DEX),Bluff (CHA), Diplomacy (CHA), Dungeoneering (WIS), Endurance (CON), Insight (WIS), Nature (WIS), Perception (WIS), Streetwise (CHA)
Build Options: Bear Survivor, Serpent Survivor, Wolf Survivor
Class Features: Path of Survival, Primal Surge
The Primal Spirits are constantly on watch, for those who have the potential to harness and pass on their ancient survival techniques.
You are one such person, whether you were an unfortunate orphan left to die in the forest or a desperate commander on the losing side of the battle. Whatever your situation, the primal spiritsguided you, nurturing on your natural instinct to survive and amplifying it to unima ginable heights.
To a Survivor, every second of peace is a blessing, every meal is a gift. Constantly on watch for danger in any form whether it be bandits out to look for easy prey or being caught in between the political wars of kings and queens, survivors have only one aim: to survive.
Your ability to evoke the primal spirits and manipulate an ally’s natural instinct to survive is your form of leadership, whether it be a surge of unease to make an ally realize their folly of leaving their flank unprotected or extra strength to wrench free of an enemies grasp allies can be assured their survival when in your company.
The wolf defensive boost seems a little over powered, and the snake damage boost vs. certain defenses seems strange.
Protect the cub: just say, Adjacent ally gets +1 ac
The wolf defensive boost seems a little over powered, and the snake damage boost vs. certain defenses seems strange.
Bear thingy: Accepted... It is simpler, and yes makes a lot of sense in the flavour sense: bears have thick hide. so.
Cheers!
Wolf thingy: yeah, and is basically an empowered version of bear's one. so how bout this:
the bonus is to Fortitude, still +1 for initial 2 ppl, with +1 for each, to max +5 and scaling for +2, max +10.
but let's make it that everyone in the "pack" has to be bloodied?
and lets call it Pack Resilience:
Pack Resilience: when you have at least one ally adjacent to you and both of you are bloodied, you and that ally gain a +1 bonus to Fortitude defense. This bonus increases by 1 for each additional ally adjacent to you whom is also bloodied, and has a limit of +5. At 21st level this increases to an initial +2 bonus and increase per ally, to a maximum of +10.
whatcha think?
===
Serpents gain a boost for Fort and Ref targeting powers, because that is what their powers will target, as some will be poison powers.
Cheers for the feedback.
So what you think of the class? im gonna get started on Paragon path names and features, then i can tackle powers in one big project!
EDIT: rather than boost post my thread, ill just edit this one:
After a wee look in the leader thread I came across one with a dude askin for advice wit creatin an ardent... and woah, some really in depth explanations of the leader role. this made me think, and so ill give a slightly revised and more concentrated outlook for the roles each build will offer:
Bear Survivor: the "defensive buff" aspect of the leader. with stuff like defense boosts, bonuses to saves etc. And the "mother bear" flavour bit does make a brilliant rider to the defender role.
Serpent Survivor: the "offensive debuff" aspect of the leader. this one puts a little more punch into the already quite potent controllery aspects to leader powers, like -hit bonuses, slowing, ongoing dmg -defenses etc.
Wolf Survivor: the "offensive buff" aspect of the leader, with a slight twist: more powerfull +hit/dmg bonuses, but allies need to be adjacent to another ally to gain the bonus, with the daily ones using the PC as the "focal" ally ppl need to be adjacent to. No secondary roles here I think, a true leader build.
(ps; do these "secondary" roles and their "power aspects" of the leader role fit the build"
Cheers!
I also think maybe you should reconsider the mechanic for the wolf boost, it's too dependent on party size.
what have totems gotta do with survival?
an this is a melee based class, so no need for totems.
srry for harshness, ur being helpful and adding insight. dinner!
Feint
A well placed nick puts an enemies’ attention where it shouldn’t be.
At-Will* Primal, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: Wisdom modifier damage. The target grants combat advantage to you and your allies until the end of your next turn.
asides from that, is feint okays? and the rest of me features (im onto powers now... the PP's and their features have been created!
Snake's attack roll boost is too good, and wolf-pack's defense can be insane or worthless, how about instead of increasing the boost just have a flat bonus to the defenses as long as the ally is adjacent to you or to someone else getting the boost? Also snake's save bonus might work better against ongoing damage in general.
Standard? oops... my mistake... i never noticed that... can i change it to minor without making it OP?
the bear thing: what do you suggest to make it on par with serpent and wolf?
Serpent: Oh, so change the save thingies to ongoing damage... same bonus? or higher/lower
Wolf: for the pack hide: how bout a static +2, but +3 to whoever is bloodied, tiering to +3/4 and +4/5 ?
===
how does that sound
still cant get over how I overlooked my healing power as a standard... haha
and yes same bonus for serpent just broaden it out a bit
HB stands for Homebrew, which means player-created concepts. or "non-official" material
if you have the char creater, fiddle with ability scores and ull see it turn from *legal to *hombrew...
this is because you are not playing by the official rules..
In context to this thread, it is a class concept thought of by me, and ive posted the features to get them peached to standard afore i work on the powrs
sorry for the inane drivvel.... hope i answered the Q
The pluses to attack bonus for both the wolf and snake builds are too powerful, as people revel over the +1 to attack rolls that fighters, rogues, and prime shot grants. If anything for the wolf, increase flanking capability to a +3 bonus rather than +2 and have it grow to +4 in epic levels.
What rampant ment by totemist isn't the use of totems, from what I remember it was a druid off-class that let you harbor the spirits of animals (Act like them) In Baldur's Gate it let you summon the spirits, though that really isn't important.
Bear Path:
Bear Hide: Seems fine, similar to a barbarian feature.
Bear Frenzy: Fine too I suppose
Staying Power: Seems strange
Protect the Cub: Similar to power abilities of the Shaman class.
Bear Overview: Are you sure that leader is you build? It seems this gut is more like a defender as only the protect the cub feature is leadery, the rest are self-preserving (which I know is why the class is called Survivor) You may want to douse the Staying Power, most classes only have three features anyway.
Serpent's Path:
Serpent's Scales: Seems more like you'd want it to give a buff to AC, but anyway at the moment it isn't very useful seeing as (as a leader) you usually aren't running around the battefield and also rogues have a similar feature that is CHA mod making it better. If you want to keep it this way though, add increase to +3 at 21st level.
Serpent's Fangs: As I said earlier the attack bonus is way too good as a well optimized class would basically never miss. You may want to just drop this one or make it increased damage with opportunity attacks (which is more snake-like anyways)
Cunning: Basically meh and sure applies to a lot of effects (why stunned?) Anyways, um if you want to keep this you may want it to just make you more resistant to the ongoing poison damage than the other effects.
Feint: Fine, probably the only leader ability this build gets.
Serpent's Path overview: Nothing really makes this build leadery besides the Feint, which could probably just be a power. Serpents aren't usually the most leadery type animals anyway.
Wolf's Path:
Pack Hide: Too good + too bad. Most party-member requiring things are feats (tribal and guild for ecample). If you want them to grant a bonus just make it +1 to AC and Reflex while adjacent and only apply it to your allies (as that is what leader's typically do). In so speaking, wolves don't really do this anyway.
Pack Surge: Wolves plus a full-blade? Wierd, anyways this powers is fine and leadery. Wierd that the wolf grants this benefit, but it's a fine leader ability (similar to the Assassin's Grim Discipline)
Wolf-Hunting Circle: As I said above make it help flanking grant the flanking bonus to allies who are at ranged if you are flanking the foe with an ally. I recommend the second, as the other will be confusing if the player is a kenku (not that many are but still.)
Wolf's Path overview: So far it has the most leadery potential (with bear being a second), though the features still need some editing.
Basically the builds need to be focused on the leader role more. While the Snake/Striker role could be a fine off-shoot (such as the Stalker Shaman) don't let it become to strikery as the class still needs to fit in with the leader role.
Hope I helped.
so yeah...anyways onwards!!Bear's Path (revised)
Bear Hide: whilst wearing hide armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC. In addition, you gain proficiency with heavy shields.
Bear Frenzy: when you become bloodied for the first time during an encounter, you and allies adjacent to you gain a +2/4/6 per tier bonus to melee damage rolls with your next melee attack.
Protect the Cub: when an ally is adjacent to you, they gain a +1 bonus to their AC
Notes: after looking, and considering your comments Swordior... i realised that strength and staying power can be accounted for in Bear Hide. so i can squish the death save throw bonus and have altered it so that two of the features benefit allies which means I can alter a feat for the bear one to allow the frenzy twice per encounter :+)
Insecurities: Is the frenzy tiering too high, if so what should it be?
Pointer: I aim for the Bear build to be secondary defender with focus on 1h and shield style, so... is this reflected in the revised version?
Serpents Path (revised)
Serpent’s Scales: you gain a +1 bonus to AC
Serpent’s Fangs: you gain proficiency with the Katar. In addition, you an allies adjacent to you gaina +1 bonus to attack rolls with melee opportunity attacks or when targeting the Reflex defense with a melee attack
Cunning: you gain a +1 bonus to saving throw against all types of ongoing damage.
Feint: you gain the Feint at-will attack power. This does not count towards your two at-will power choices at 1st level.
Feint
A well placed nick and a surge of primal rage puts an enemies' attention where it shouldn't be.
At-Will* Primal, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: Wisdom modifier damage. The target grants combat advantage to you and your allies until the end of your next turn.
Notes: yeah... a previously OP build the fangs feature I altered to be more realistic. and cunning was already widened from a prev post... (ill EDIT the original, and post the revised version to avoid confusion)...
Insecurities: can it stay +1 or do i tier it to +2 at 21st lvl?... do i get away with feint? druid pounce is 1D8+ wis mod, for the NEXT thing to attack it for CA.... i do mod dmg for a whole round of CA to anyhting that attacks?
Notes: I aim for serpents to be secondary strikers (already rogue friendly with feint and a focus on dual-wielding.. its looking like my feats will also need revamped after im done here
Wolf's Path (revised)
Pack Hide: when you have at least one ally adjacent to you and you are both bloodied, you and that ally gain a +1 bonus to fortitude defense. At 21st level this increases to a +2 bonus.
Pack Surge: You gain proficiency with the fullblade. In addition, when you either bloody an enemy or drop them to 0 hit points or lower with a two-handed weapon, you grant temporary hit points to an ally within 5 squares equal to 1+ your Charisma modifier. Increase to 3+ Charisma modifier at 11th level and 5+ Charisma modifier at 21st level.
Wolf Hunting Circle: ??
Notes: I aim for this build to be pure leader, no secondary, with a 2h weapon focus.
insecurities: how would you word the hunting circle to do what you ask>? and if you are iffy that wolves get 2h's what weapon group would you suggest to fit? im open to suggstion
hope you helped: haha You helped LOADSSSSS!!!!!!
Here; ill post me paragon paths for some PEACHING!
PARAGON PATHS
DISCIPLE OF THE ENDLESS WINTER PATH FEATURES Winter’s Touch (11th level): Whilst you remain conscious, a close burst 1 aura of winter surrounds you. This grants allies within it cover, and is difficult terrain for enemies. In addition, when you make an attack with a melee weapon, you may choose for the damage dealt to be cold damage.
“Though winter comes and goes, it never truly dies”
Prerequisite: Survivor, Primal Surge class feature
As the seasons change at different times in different lands, thus each season never truly ends. You are a protector of the Endless Winter, the winter that never dies. When entities from the otherplanes come and attempt to alter the cycle of the seasons, you strike down with relentless wrath.
Action of the Endless Winter (11th level): when you spend an action point to take an extra action, you may forgo that extra action to instead allow the Winter’s Touch feature to increase to close burst 3, and allow allies in burst to deal cold damage with melee weapon attacks. this effect lasts until the end of your next turn, or you fall unconscious and thus end the effects of the winter’s touch feature
Winter’s Healing Touch (16th level): when you restore hit points via a power. Up to twice per encounter, you may choose to increase the hit points restored by a number equal to 5 + one half your level.
Let's see:
Bear Hide: Go ahead and make the AC bonus tier the barbarian does it so I don't see why the survivalist can't.
Bear Frenzy: Seems limiting when only being while your bloodied even if a feat lets you do it twice.
Protect the cub: Seems fine, to keep with the shield idea make it: While you are holding a shield, you grant all adjacent allies a +1 bonus to AC.
Serpent's Scales: Fine, though if this is basically the classes AC it should go up with tiers.
Serpent's Fangs: Fine though strange it singles out Reflex. I'm unsure of the bonuses to attacks, but I think the opportunity attack bonus could tier up, not the reflex bonus. Maybe choose one or the other, though not sure totally.
Cunning: Maybe apply it to adjacent allies as well. Change the name though, cunning doesn't seem like it would make you resistant to poison. Snake's Blood?
Feint: I see what you mean about the other powers, add [W] damage and say the target grant Combat Advantage to one of your allies.
Pack Hide: Lose the bloodied bonus, as fortitude is often used less and the Bear give AC bonus to adjacent allies anyway. You can probably get away with tiering through Paragon as well.
Pack Surge: Not sure about the bloodied part (go for the bard's virtue effect (unsure of it right now)). Don't worry about the full-blade.
Wolf Hunting Circle: Well, you could do it the Gnolls way or the Kenku's way:
Flanking: You grant your allies a +3 bonus to attack rolls against a creature you and the ally are flanking rather than the traditonal +2.
Damage: You allow your allies to deal an additional +2 damage rolls against any enemy that has you and at least one other ally adjacent to it.
Maybe give the serpent path more leader love besides that power (which itself is good as humans of that path would have 4 at-will) So maybe not.
Just ideas though.
I'll get to the paragon path's when I have the time.
Bear
Bear Hide: Go ahead and make the AC bonus tier the barbarian does it so I don't see why the survivalist can't.
Okays, no comments... a simple alteration:
Bear Hide: whilst wearing hide armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC, this becomes +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level. In addition, you gain proficiency with heavy shields.
==
Bear Frenzy: Seems limiting when only being while your bloodied even if a feat lets you do it twice.
Yeah, Okay so some major rewording then:
Bear Frenzy: Up to three times per encounter, when you take damage from an attack, you may enter a minor rage. when you do this, you and allies adjacent to you gain a +2/4/6 per tier bonus to melee damage rolls with your next melee attack.
With the feat assosciated, allowing for 4 or 5 times? per encouter
==
Protect the cub: Seems fine, to keep with the shield idea make it: While you are holding a shield, you grant all adjacent allies a +1 bonus to AC.
I love you mate!! great idea, how come i didnt think of that, haha:
Protect the Cub: Whilst you are wielding a light or heavy shield allies adjacent to you gain a +1 bonus to their AC.
cheers for this one.... so simple and easy I overstepped it
==
Serpent
Serpent's Scales: Fine, though if this is basically the classes AC it should go up with tiers.
Coolio, some easy additions:
Serpent’s Scales: you gain a +1 bonus to AC. at 11th level this increases to +2, and at 21st level increases to +3
Serpent's Fangs: Fine though strange it singles out Reflex. I'm unsure of the bonuses to attacks, but I think the opportunity attack bonus could tier up, not the reflex bonus. Maybe choose one or the other, though not sure totally.
Ah, well the reason i picked and single out reflex is cause snakes/serpents are usualyl quite fast at trying to munch you with those sharp fangs! so, if I had to pick, id go for opportunity attack, fighters would love me for it... and ill let it tier, and see how it looks:
Serpent’s Fangs: you gain proficiency with the Katar. In addition, you and allies adjacent to you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls with melee opportunity attacks. at 11th level increase to a +2 bonus and at 21st level increase to +3.
==
Cunning: Maybe apply it to adjacent allies as well. Change the name though, cunning doesn't seem like it would make you resistant to poison. Snake's Blood?
Yeah, i get this one.. simple and a hopefully easy change, the name is up for discussion:
Serpent's Resistance: you and allies adjacent to you gain a +1 bonus to saving throw against all types of ongoing damage.
Feint: I see what you mean about the other powers, add [W] damage and say the target grant Combat Advantage to one of your allies.
Aww, i was hoping to keep it Wis dmg for a whole round for everyone to keep it unique, but if needed it becomes:
Feint: you gain the Feint at-will attack power. This does not count towards your two at-will power choices at 1st level.
Feint
A well placed nick and a surge of primal rage puts an enemies' attention where it shouldn't be.
At-Will* Primal, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 1[w] + Wisdom modifier damage. The target grants combat advantage until the end of your next turn to one ally within 5 sqaures of you.
Increase to 2[w] + Wisdom modifier damage at 21st level.
==
Wolf
Pack Hide: Lose the bloodied bonus, as fortitude is often used less and the Bear give AC bonus to adjacent allies anyway. You can probably get away with tiering through Paragon as well.
Yeah, a common sense change, cheers:
Pack Hide: You and allies adjacent to you gain a +1 bonus to Fortitude defense. at 11th level increase to +2, and at 21st level increase to +3
Pack Surge: Not sure about the bloodied part (go for the bard's virtue effect (unsure of it right now)). Don't worry about the full-blade.
Oh, well let me think... I am also not sure...cool that we can drop the subject of what weapon:
Pack Surge: You gain proficiency with the fullblade. In addition, when either you, or an ally adjacent to you bloodies or drops an enemy to 0 hit points or lower, you may grant temporary hit points to an ally within 5 squares equal to 1+ your Charisma modifier. Increase to 3+ Charisma modifier at 11th level and 5+ Charisma modifier at 21st level.
Wolf Hunting Circle: Well, you could do it the Gnolls way or the Kenku's way
Flanking: You grant your allies a +3 bonus to attack rolls against a creature you and the ally are flanking rather than the traditonal +2.
Damage: You allow your allies to deal an additional +2 damage rolls against any enemy that has you and at least one other ally adjacent to it.
Huh, okays, how bout a little mixture, but here is my previous wording that i done right after asking you waht to put:
Wolf Hunting Circle: when you are flanking an enemy with an ally, you grant flanking to allies using ranged or area powers against that enemy.
and to mix your ideas:
Wolf Hunting Circle: when you are flanking an enemy with an ally, you grant allies a +3 bonus to attack rolls and a +1 bonus to damage rolls rather than the traditional +2 flanking bonus.
==
Really appreciate this mate... I can now see easily that my build would have been heavily imbalanced
My favourate PP at the moment is the Alpha of the Pack, expecially the lv16 ability.... id be a wolf
easy for me to choose wolf i love em.
haha... anyways, cheers for takin the time to even go over these, even if you dont check the PP's
here is a more important addition, my revamped class feats:
CLASS FEATS
HEROIC TIER FEATS
GREATER FRENZY
Prerequisites: Survivor, Path of Survival, Bear’s Path
Benefit: When you evoke the bear’s frenzy feature, its bonus now applies to the next two melee attacks you and allies adjacent to you make.
VICIOUS FANGS
Prerequisites: Survivor, Path of Survival, Serpent’s Path
Benefit: the serpent’s fangs feature now also grants a +1 bonus to the damage roll of opportunity attacks. this increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.
POTENT SURGE
Prerequisites: Survivor, Path of Survival, Wolf’s Path
Benefit: When calculating the temporary hit points for the pack surge feature. Add 1D4 to the hit point calculation. At 11th level increase to 2D4 and at 21st level increase to 3D4.
GREATER SURGE
Prerequisites: Survivor, Primal Surge
Benefit: the primary target of the primal surge power now gains additional hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier.
PRIMAL RAIN
Prerequisites: Survivor
Benefit: allies gain a +1 bonus to the attack roll of ranged and area attacks against enemies whom you are adjacent to
SURVIVOR’S SKILLS
Prerequisites: Survivor, Wis 15
Benefit: you gain a +1 bonus to all skills
PARAGON TIER FEATS
CUB’S SHIELD
Prerequisites: Survivor, Path of Survival, Bear’s Path
Benefit: the protect the cub feature now includes one additional defense of the allies’ choice. The bonus to these defenses also increases by 1 if the ally is bloodied.
PROLONGED RESISTANCE
Prerequisites: Survivor, Path of Survival, Serpent’s Path
Benefit: when you or an ally adjacent to you succeeds with a saving throw against ongoing damage, gain resist 5 damage of the same type of damage as the ongoing damage. this lasts until the end of their next turn.
INSEPERABLE
Prerequisites: Survivor, Path of Survival, Wolf’s Path
Benefit: when an ally adjacent to you is subject to a power or effect that pushes, pulls or slides them, reduce the number of squares they are pushed, pulled or slid by 2
TACTICAL SURGE
Prerequisites: Survivor, Primal Surge
Benefit: the primary target of the primal surge power may shift two squares. In addition, you may choose to carry out the secondary effect either before or after the primary target shifts.
BOMBARD THE WEAK
Prerequisites: Survivor
Benefit: allies gain a +2 bonus to the damage rolls of ranged and area attacks against enemies who are bloodied and are adjacent to you.
EPIC TIER FEATS
ARMS OF STRENTH
Prerequisites: Survivor, Path of Survival, Bear’s Path
Benefit: whilst you are wielding a one-handed weapon and a light or heavy shield, you gain a +1 bonus to all defenses and melee damage rolls.
ARMS OF CUNNING
Prerequisites: Survivor, Path of Survival, Serpent’s Path
Benefit: whist you are wielding two melee weapons and impose a condition or ongoing damage on an enemy, they take a -1 penalty to saving throws them.
ARMS OF LEADERSHIP
Prerequisites: Survivor, Path of Survival, Wolf’s Path
Benefit: whilst you are wielding a two-handed weapon, allies adjacent to you gain a +1 bonus to melee attack rolls.
ARMS OF THE SCOUT
Prerequisites: Survivor, Wis 19
Benefit: allies may score a critical hit with ranged and area attacks against enemies adjacent to you.
Hmm:
Bear Frenzy: Mostly be catious with the word rage. To make it simpler maybe make it so allies add the damage while adjacent (I think rune-priest has something similar). If you want your character to benefit just add him in too (or you can make it so he benefits from the hits.
Serpent's Resistance: May make it +2 so its more significant and worth sitting next to the leader.
Feint: I suppose you could make it Wis damage and then make it grant combat advantage to you and adjacent allies (though I think thats pushing it).
Pack Surge: I checked the bard's cunning feature, and what you had was correct. Kudos.
Wolf's Hunting Circle: Works, sort of thinking you may be able to increase the damage to +2, though unsure.
I'll go through PPs probably on Monday (more time then)
As for feats:
Greater Frenzy: If you keep it the way it's then its fine, though I only see it getting confusing if they activate it during the lingering round, though I'm assuming it doesnt stack.
Vicious Fangs: Make it +2/4/6 since that is what most feats add to normal attacks anyways (if you want it to be feat bonuses) Otherwise it seems fine as just a generic small bonus that stacks.
Potent Surge: Seems fine, never was good at temp. hit points though.
Greater Surge: Fine, though you could make it temp. hit points instead, seems similar to other feats that ways.
Primal Rain: Seems fine, but then again I underestimare (apparently) the value of a +1 bonus to attack rolls.
Survivor Skills: Careful with this one, as a Bard/Survivor hybrid could recieve have +5 bonus to all skills (Bard of all Trades, Survivor's Skills, Skill Versatility). Then if they Paragon to Jack-of-all-trades you would be AMAZING with all skills (just without the skill bonus). Maybe make it a +2 feat bonus to survival type skills (Endurance, Nature, Dungeoneering, Streetwise) so its similar to the Bardic Knowledge feat as well as applying to survival.
Cub's Shield: Strange the ally chooses. Looks fine to me.
Prolonged Resistance: Kind of confusing, does the Survivor get this benefit or the ally? unsure of how it stacks with other powers or abilities (you may not want it to if you maintain this feat.)
Inseperable: Seems fine.
Tacticle Surge: Cool.
Bombard the weak: Looks fine too. Though may be bad if combined with bear's fury, though (again) I'm no expert.
Arms of Strength: Seems fine, though may just make it defenses.... not that the +1 to damage is big.
Arms of Cunning: Fine since it's just a generic bonus.
Arms of Leadership: Fine, though don't want too many bonuses to attack rolls (flanking +3, fighter or rogue +4, feat +5) ?
Arms of the Scout: ? on what rolls? Unsure the ranged may be fine (they have a similar feat for the user) though unsure of area effects (I'm assuming its 19-20).
Bear Path
Bear Frenzy: Up to three times per encounter, when you take damage from an attack, you may choose to grant you and allies adjacent to you a bonus to melee damage rolls. When you do this, you and allies adjacent to you gain a +2/4/6 per tier bonus to melee damage rolls with your next melee attack.
Got rid of that “rage” thing, was treading on barbarian territory there!
Woot the Bear Path is Balanced (haha a bear on a tightrope)
Serpent’s Path
Serpent's Resistance: you and allies adjacent to you gain a +2 bonus to saving throw against all types of ongoing damage.
When the spiders start biting, everone'll want to keep close to that shady dude that is their leader haha
I’ll keep feint to what it is, seems better to leave it than to tread on “pushing it” territory
Wolf
Wolf Hunting Circle: when you are flanking an enemy with an ally, you grant allies a +3 bonus to attack rolls and a +2 bonus to damage rolls rather than the traditional flanking bonus.
Boosted to a +2 to damage rolls, how does it look? The Thing that does come to mind is tempest fighters who get a +2 bonus to dmg rolls with off-handers.
Feat Changes (a few i think, are named differently)
Feats
GREATER SURGE
Prerequisites: Survivor, Primal Surge
Benefit: the primary target of the primal surge power now also gains temporary hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Is now temp hp
SURVIVOR’S SKILLS
Prerequisites: Survivor, Wis 15
Benefit: you gain a +2 Feat bonus to Endurance, Nature, Dungeoneering and Streetwise skill checks.
Less broken this way... thank you.
PROLONGED RESISTANCE
Prerequisites: Survivor, Path of Survival, Serpent’s Path
Benefit: when you or an ally adjacent to you succeeds with a saving throw against ongoing damage, the one who succeeded in saving gains resist 5 damage of the same type of damage as the ongoing damage they saved against. This lasts until the end of your next turn.
I don’t think anyone gives anything like this, though the sorcerer resistance kinda comes close... but the resistance is for the person who succeeded the save, be it the ally or your PC.. but it does end on the PCs next turn.
ARMS OF STRENTH
Prerequisites: Survivor, Path of Survival, Bear’s Path
Benefit: whilst you are wielding a one-handed weapon and a light or heavy shield, you gain a +1
bonus to all defenses.
Is now defenses only... cheers
ARMS OF LEADERSHIP
Prerequisites: Survivor, Path of Survival, Wolf’s Path
Benefit: whilst you are wielding a two-handed weapon, when allies adjacent to you spend a healing surge, they gain a bonus to the hit points gained equal to your Charisma modifier.
A definite “leadership” bonus... (i didn’t notice i was pilling up the attack bonuses... though i suppose thats one easy way to frustrate a DM, he piles a monster 5 levels higher than you and everyone is hitting it easily haha.
ARMS OF THE SCOUT
Prerequisites: Survivor, Wis 19
Benefit: allies may score a critical hit with ranged and area attacks against enemies adjacent to you. With a roll of 19-20
The reason for these little “ranged ally” loving feats... is cause afore the MP2 and the “scout” warlord no one really gave that much love to ranged allies... from what I seen.
Yeah, it was 19-20.... i guess i forgot to put it in.. so ... thanks for that.
I want to take the time to thank you properly, as to be quite honest without you, this class would have been both insanely OP and UP at the same time (buildwise)
So Thank you Swordior, for taking the time to help me mould this class into a possibly enjoyable class (will not have the chance to playtest it meself)
Arms of the Scout
Prerequisite: Survivor
Benefit: Ranged attacks made by allies within 5 squares also count as flanking any enemy you currently flank with an ally.
Reason (I point out the foes weak points)
Distractless Survivor
Prerequisite: 11th level, Survivor
Benefit: While adjacent to the target of an ally's ranged attack, you do not count against that ally's Prime Shot class feature.
Reason: (I don't ever block my ally's attacks) (Forgive the wording, wasn't sure how to say it)
Observant Survivior
Prerequisite: 21st level, Survivor
Benefit: allies may score a critical hit with ranged and area attacks against enemies adjacent to you on a roll of 19-20.
You might be able to get away with the Obeservant Survivor feat at 11th level, but I made it 21st just to be sure it's equal (since it is better than the Bow Mastery feat anyways).
Anyways, on to PPs
Disciple of the Endless Winter
Winter's Touch: There are few abilities that grant Player Characters Auras in 4th ed. (at least it seems that way). So, despite how much I like this idea, I think it's too OP (Plus, Bralani Wintersouls already have Winter's Touch with a differnt effect). Here are my ideas:
Winter Veil (11th level): Allies can use cover granted from you to become hidden or stay hidden.
OR
Icy Defense (11th level): You gain resist 10 cold damage, increasing to 15 at 21st level.
For an Action point feature:
Action of the Endless Winter (11th level): When you spend an action point to take another action, all squares adjacent to you become difficult terrain for your enemies.
OR
Action of the Endless Winter (11th level) (Maybe another name): When you spend an action point to use a Survivor or Disciple of the Endless Winter Paragon Path attack power, that attack deals additional cold damage equal to 5 + your some modifier damage.
OR something like...
Action of Endless Winter (11th level): "When you spend an action point to make an attack, you create a zone of flurrying snow in a close burst 5 that lasts until the end of your next turn. Squares in the zone are difficult terrain and lightly obscured for enemies." (This is the effect of Wintersoul Flurry Action from Dragon
384 P. 59) (Gotta cite my source
)You may be able to add "In addition you can cause any damage you deal from an attack made using the extra action be cold damage" to the first idea, but it may be a bit wordy and bite into magic weapon territory. (Though I'm no expert on paragon path features)
Winter's Healing Touch heals way too much with that (At least it seems that way). I think you should make it only when you use Primal Surge (since it's required for the PP) as well as grant the ally resist cold damage equal to 5 + some modifier until the end of your next turn (since their is already a feat adding Temp. Hit Points equal to a modifier). (Maybe change the name to winter's embrace or something)
Oh and you don't have to thank me, I enjoy doing this kind of stuff. It gives me something to do (when I'm not busy) as well as introduces me to cool ideas and helps me on my classes, such as the Blackguard class I posted here community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... if you want to check it out (or help edit though I do stress only if you want to as it's a lot to go through)
Endurance: Nt sure if Endurance is the best name, but looks a bit UP as resisting hunger and thirst add +5 DC every day after the first, thus I recommend increaseing it to +5 bonus. I don't think that is OP becuase those events probably rarely happen (except weather, but having a good ally that knew how to get through it would be uber helpful), at Epic level a Sharmind can render this useless (which no other feature seems to ever be able to be cancelled.
Nomad's Action: Maybe increase the bonus to at least +2. Another idea would be lower the roll needed for spending a healing surge (maybe 18-20, 19-20)? (Not sure of the second one becuase some allies may have big Death Saving throw bonuses.
Nomad's Wisdom: Careful, for this feature is stepping on the Jack of all Trade's special feature, and if it uses the same skills as that one feat then that already is a +5 bonus to all those skills. Maybe have them gain training in an additional skill? Depends on your focus for this build. You could switch endurance and this place making this +2 to allies within X squares to Nature, Dungeoneering, Streetwise checks (would've added endurance, but that is pratically what Endurance does.)
Though I do suppose you could keep this, seeing as many Paragon Paths have similar abilities. Just depends on your builld ideas.
I think things are looking good now. The only iffy one (for me) is the Arms of the Scout feat, for there is a similar feat, but it's at Epic level. Maybe have a set of feats that goes up with tiers that favors archer characters...
Arms of the Scout
Prerequisite: Survivor
Benefit: Ranged attacks made by allies within 5 squares also count as flanking any enemy you currently flank with an ally.
Reason (I point out the foes weak points)
Distractless Survivor
Prerequisite: 11th level, Survivor
Benefit: While adjacent to the target of an ally's ranged attack, you do not count against that ally's Prime Shot class feature.
Reason: (I don't ever block my ally's attacks) (Forgive the wording, wasn't sure how to say it)
Observant Survivior
Prerequisite: 21st level, Survivor
Benefit: allies may score a critical hit with ranged and area attacks against enemies adjacent to you on a roll of 19-20.
You might be able to get away with the Obeservant Survivor feat at 11th level, but I made it 21st just to be sure it's equal (since it is better than the Bow Mastery feat anyways).
Anyways, on to PPs
Disciple of the Endless Winter
Winter's Touch: There are few abilities that grant Player Characters Auras in 4th ed. (at least it seems that way). So, despite how much I like this idea, I think it's too OP (Plus, Bralani Wintersouls already have Winter's Touch with a differnt effect). Here are my ideas:
Winter Veil (11th level): Allies can use cover granted from you to become hidden or stay hidden.
OR
Icy Defense (11th level): You gain resist 10 cold damage, increasing to 15 at 21st level.
For an Action point feature:
Action of the Endless Winter (11th level): When you spend an action point to take another action, all squares adjacent to you become difficult terrain for your enemies.
OR
Action of the Endless Winter (11th level) (Maybe another name): When you spend an action point to use a Survivor or Disciple of the Endless Winter Paragon Path attack power, that attack deals additional cold damage equal to 5 + your some modifier damage.
OR something like...
Action of Endless Winter (11th level): "When you spend an action point to make an attack, you create a zone of flurrying snow in a close burst 5 that lasts until the end of your next turn. Squares in the zone are difficult terrain and lightly obscured for enemies." (This is the effect of Wintersoul Flurry Action from Dragon
384 P. 59) (Gotta cite my source )
You may be able to add "In addition you can cause any damage you deal from an attack made using the extra action be cold damage" to the first idea, but it may be a bit wordy and bite into magic weapon territory. (Though I'm no expert on paragon path features)
Winter's Healing Touch heals way too much with that (At least it seems that way). I think you should make it only when you use Primal Surge (since it's required for the PP) as well as grant the ally resist cold damage equal to 5 + some modifier until the end of your next turn (since their is already a feat adding Temp. Hit Points equal to a modifier). (Maybe change the name to winter's embrace or something)
Oh and you don't have to thank me, I enjoy doing this kind of stuff. It gives me something to do (when I'm not busy) as well as introduces me to cool ideas and helps me on my classes, such as the Blackguard class I posted here community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... if you want to check it out (or help edit though I do stress only if you want to as it's a lot to go through)
I wonder that im confusing you by not putting the lvl requirements into feats, as the Arms of the Scout one was already an Epic tier feat.
the scaling feats associated with my ranged ppl love is:
for Heroic:
PRIMAL RAIN
Prerequisites: Survivor
Benefit: allies gain a +1 bonus to the attack roll of ranged and area attacks against enemies whom you are adjacent to
For Paragon:
BOMBARD THE WEAK
Prerequisites: Survivor
Benefit: allies gain a +2 bonus to the damage rolls of ranged and area attacks against enemies who are bloodied and are adjacent to you.
and Epic you already know:
ARMS OF THE SCOUT
Prerequisites: Survivor, Wis 19
Benefit: allies may score a critical hit with ranged and area attacks against enemies adjacent to you. With a roll of 19-20
Not sure if it helps, but your suggestions were quite valid... but onto da PPS..
Disciple of the Endless Winter:
Winter’s Veil (11th level): Whilst you remain conscious, a close burst 1 aura of winter surrounds you. This grants allies within it cover, and is difficult terrain for enemies.
Removed the weapon augment, and renamed it.. as you said, a PP has claimed it already
Winter's Wrath Action (11th level): When you spend an action point to use a Survivor or Disciple of the Endless Winter Paragon Path attack power, that attack deals additional cold damage equal to 5 + your Wisdom modifier.
I'll take that, and i changed the name to fit
Winter’s Healing Touch (16th level): when you restore hit points via the Primal Surge power. Up to twice per encounter, you may choose to increase the hit points restored by a number equal to 5 + one half your level. In addition, the primary target gains resist 5 + your Wisdom modifier cold damage until the end of your next turn.
the association with Primal Surge never struck me, but again you point out the obvious, cheers!
and my Nomadic pal!
Natural Resilience (11th level): You and allies within 5 squares of you gain a +5 bonus to saving against the effects of hunger, sleep or thirst, and against the effects of weather.
boosted it and renamed it, hows it look?
Nomad’s Action (11th level): when you spend an action point to take an extra action, you may forgo that extra action to instead allow a dying ally within 5 squares to make a death saving throw as a free action with a +2 bonus. With it not counting as a fail should it be unsuccessful.
a simple boost, hows that look?
Nomad’s Wisdom (16th level): Allies within 5 squares of you gain a +2 bonus to Nature, Dungeoneering, Streetwise and Endurance checks.
changed it, hows this look?
cheers again.. ill certianly look at ure blackguard
ps: im creating a Shadow leader too, the Dreadlord, muhahaha
Primal Rain: At least make it a feat bonus so they can't stack their own feat bonus to their attack rolls (such as from weapon expertise)
Bombard the Weak: Fine, part of me almost thinks it could also be a heroic tier.
Arms of the Scout: Already talked about
PP's
Winter's Veil: Still iffy on having an aura-like effect, maybe just grant cover for the difficult terrain is more in the range of powers.
Winter's Healing Touch: I warn caution on the extra healing, for no class should heal more than the Cleric (at least for the primary target). If you want the extra healing, just make it equal to a modifier and drop the 5 (or make the additional ally heal 5 + mod instead of just mod). You don't need the twice per encounter line, for it's limited to the use of the Primal Surge Power. If you stick with the healing drop the resist cold.
Natural Resilience: Maybe make it something like Shared Survivor or something that has to do with your allies (as they are gaining the benefit too) Looks fine.
Nomad's Action: May want to change the wording to: "You can use that extra action too... instead of taking a notmal action."
Nomad's Wisdom: Better now, though may want to drop Endurance or make the Natural Resilience not apply to you. (For the feat and this will already give you a +4 to those checks anyways).
Alpha of the Pack
Spirit Wolf: Recommend you say You gain the Spirit Wolf power. Then have the power be a sort of cross between the Shaman's Spirit Companion and the Dream Form of the Psion. Let it flank with allies, have an attack you can make in place of an action, let the additional ally of Primal Surge be adjacent to the original target or the wolf. I also recommend that this class would gain a power that lets the wolf get an opportunity action.
Pack's Alpha Action: Looks fine, though it would need a range. Also, it makes me sort of iffy that it grants two additional attacks, since action points only allow one. Maybe just one ally can use an at-will power or something. Or maybe it allows you to slide an ally mod squares (so they can be moved to a flanking or safer position).
Beta of the Pack: Despite how awesome this would be, I have to say no. Though you could (if you go with the Spirit Wolf option I offered) have something similar for your wolf companion. Maybe the wolf companion could also grant the bonus from Wolf Hunting Circle bonus?
Serpentine Adept
Trickster's Tactics: Might want to stick to adjacent to you (as many push, pull, and slide powers are also ranged anyways.)
Instant Poison Action: The wording is off (for what Wizards usually has) but good: If you spend an action point to make an attack, if that attack hits the target also takes ongoing 5 poison damage.
(Or something like that)
Underhanded Tactics: Way OP at the moment, if anything it must only be you and 19-20 (since the dagger master is the only 18-20 crit range becuase he uses daggers 1d4 damage). Thinking it should be something else (extra damage maybe)? Pitch some ideas to me and I'll see, though snakes are also slippery maybe instead: Allies adjacent to you can shift as a minor action. That is helpful to all and matches the serpent ideas.
There we go, done (for now anyways)
PS. Thanks for saying your look, even though you don't have too. Any help is appreciated. I too was thinking of building a shadow leader as I have been hungry for a leader with a movement focus, such as pulling the shadows of foes and allies to make the battefield your plaything (though my ideas right now would more then likely be OP) Just a thought, but we might be able to work on it together, lessen the work and make it more fun.
okays:
let me start with a something positive. With your agreement, I would like to consider the class features officially (well, as official as a HB project can be) done and dusted!
and onto the feats, and the PP's (I can start to work on me powers now :+)
[sblock]
PRIMAL RAIN
Prerequisites: Survivor
Benefit: allies gain a +1 feat bonus to the attack roll of ranged and area attacks against enemies whom you are adjacent to.
Okays, I can see where this comes from.. as it's be an almost constant effect, and as usual these little +1s mount up alongside the bigger boosts, so yeah, in its own right this is a ranged PC's dream support feature
==
ARMS OF THE SCOUT
Prerequisites: Survivor, Wis 19
Benefit: When an ally within 5 squares makes a ranged or area attack against an enemy that is adjacent to you, that ally may score a critical hit with their attack from a roll of 19-20.
Reason: Close enough to affect an ally's accuracy with primal energy, and boost their confidence that they wont end up making thier leader a porcupine :+)
ofc, I can switch it to the "grant" ranged folk flanking bonus thingy if this is still too iffy ~
And if thats that, i can also say that the feats are also done and dusted
Disciple of the Endless Winter is looking good too. Still iffy on the aura, but it should be fine. As for Winter's Grace it's fine to have # + mod, though it tends to usually be set numbers of 5, 10, or 15. So maybe make it 5 + Wisdom modifier (Which is potentially 10 anyways) or I guess it could just be 10 (though that seems a bit blah).
Nomad looks fine.
Alpha of the Pack: You could make Spirit Wolf an at-will power as well (the Dreamwalker's Manifest Dream Form power is at -will, even though it does have that trigger of augmenting a power 1 point). Not that it truly matters if it's an encounter power, it just sucks if it disappears due to damage.
Pack's Alpha Action: Seems fine, since some paragon paths also grant a move for free, so it's basically the same (only for an ally).
Beta of the Pack: Don't worry about including that line of "this is a power that offers a daily conditional bonus for your spirit wolf." For they could probably look at the power to see. The only real iffy thing here is you are granting them a free At-will/encounter (for the wolf conjuration) and then a free daily (to beef him up). If you want this you could say the wolf also grants the Wolf's hunting circle benefit to allies flanking with him. Or you could have a new feature, as many of your powers could be used on your Wolf instead of you (and the daily power granting the bonus).
The thing with unsavable damage is it basically is just straight up damage at the start of the enemy's turn. I don't know if a dual strike would be the best choice to apply this too, since most dual attaks that are at-will deal 1[W] damage each attack (since they have twice the chance to hit and can deal 2[W] at level 1). Mostly the unsavable ongoing damage is just a flavor thing, though it can be better (Since if you do your attack and then the controller (or some other ally) applies a vulnerability to the damage onto the foe increasing the damage. You could do it, though a twin attack probably isn't the best choice, and Wizards seems to avoid it (without a trigger like the enemy moves).
Sorry for that double post thingy there. anyways..
Yahoo!
DofEW so that little feature ive put as 5+ Wis mod.. so thats it sorted.
three down...and one to go: the wolfy one:
Spirit Wolf (11th level): You gain the Summon Spirit Wolf Encounter power
Hmm.. yeah so we can keep Mr mentor as an Encounter: have i missed anthing important in me description:
Summon Spirit Wolf
a great howl announces the arrival of your lifelong mentor: a great leader amongst wolves who now joins your cause so that it may be a member of your pack.
Encounter* Primal, Summoning
Minor Action Close burst 2
Effect: You summon a medium spirit wolf within the burst. The wolf remains until the end of the encounter. When you make a move action, you may also move the spirit wolf a number of squares equal to your speed. The wolf has hit points equal to your healing surge value + your Wisdom modifier and can be targeted by attacks.
The Wolf is considered an ally, and thus can flank with you and your allies. In addition, when you use the Primal Surge power, the secondary effect may now include all allies adjacent to the spirit wolf, instead of adjacent to the primary target.
By spending a standard action you may make this attack: Claws; Wis vs. AC; 1D8 + Wisdom modifier damage. 2D8 + Wisdom modifier at 21st level.
Pack Alpha's Action (11th level): when you spend an action point to take an extra action. You may forgo that extra action to instead allow one ally within 5 squares shift a number of squares equal to your Wisdom modifier and make an At-will attack power against an enemy within their melee range.
This one is fine...cool.
Beta of the Pack (16th level): Your Spirit Wolf now qualifies for granting the effects of the Wolf's Hunting Circle class feature.
I went for the easy way out... putting this in power format would just take up more space :+)
Hmm... sad about that At-will thing...
Okays then... can i get away with this then?
NAME
Coated in primal poison, your blade sheathes itself in flesh.
At-Will* Poison, Primal, Melee
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One Creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Fortitude
Hit: the target takes ongoing 2 poison damage.
Level 21: ongoing 4 poison damage.
The way I was going to play it was as follows:
Bear: targets AC... nothing else really. Will have an At-will marking power, and one that grants Temp hp to an ally.
Serpent: Ref and Fort targetings. Will have an at-will for ally movement, and a granted bonus not unlike the pally's valiant strike, but with allies.
Wolf: mostly AC, with the occasional Fort. one at-will shown.. has the bonus one for CA... so the third i think possibly an immediate interrupt for a 1 square shift upon attack agaisnt me or an adajcent ally?
===
Any thoughts on these...what would you expect from the builds?
cheers!
EDIT: oh, a most important Question concerning a lot:
do i go for single stat attack, with build specific secondry..
or build specific attack stat, with Wis as the universal secondary?
STR or CON for bear?
DEX for serpent
CHA for Wolf.
Recommend making the Spirit Wolf a conjuration. Makes it seem more like it wants to rather than it's being forced to. Also, you won't lose a healing surge if it dies.
Try:
Serpent's Fangs
Your Spirit Snake imbues your weapon with the bite of a poisonous serpent.
At-Will* Poison, Primal, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One Creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier poison damage and the target takes ongoing poison damage equal to your other modifier.
Level 21: 2[W] Poison damage.
May actually work better with "At the start of the targets next turn, it takes poison damage equal to your other modifier."
Builds: Basically just be careful with the serpent's build for it can easily become over-powered by attack those stats.
As for your newly added edit: Go basic like the others, One main: Wisdom, and two secondaries based of build. OR 1 for melee attacks, 1 for implement attacks, 1 for secondary effects. Most peopl prefer the 1st one, but it depends on your ideas.
I had suggested powers so:
Bear's Claw
With the strength of your bear spirit, you push your foes where you want them.
At-Will* Primal, Weapon
Standard action Melee Weapon
Target: One Creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage and you slide the target one square.
Level 21: 2[W] + Wisdom modifier
(could be a push equal to STR (or other side attribute) but I though you sliding the foe was more leadery)
Imposing Bear
You lash at your foe with such force that it doesn't want to take its eyes off you.
At-Will* Fear, Primal, Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon
Target: One Creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage and the target is marked until the end of your next turn.\
Level 21: 2[W] + Wisdom modifier damage.
Serpent's Fangs: As above
Poison of Fury
Your Spirit Serpent's bite injects its target with a poison that fills your foe with a rage against your strongest ally.
At-Will* Implement, Poison, Primal
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One Creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Fortitude (or maybe Will)
Hit: 1d8 + Wisdom modifier damage and the target is marked by an ally within 5 squares of you until the end of your next turn.
Level 21: 2d8 + Wisdom modifier poison damage.
Howling Distraction
With a howl imbued by your spirit wolf and a strike, you distract your foe's enough that your ally can slip into an advantagous position.
At-Will* Fear, Primal, Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon
Target: One Creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] damage and an ally within 5 squares of you can shift one square.
Level 21: 2[W] damage
(I suppose the damage could be thunder)
Inst that ironic... no matter the incarnation i gave it.. one of the snakes at-wills i made was always called Serpents fangs.. great minds think alike..
I'll take the next turn = mod damage route.
and ill stick to the universal attack stat.. :+)
=
here we go some more push, pull, slide morality discussions haha
I always thought pulling is more defendery (as your trying to occupy em, and mind Bears are sec defenders)
and that pushing was Strikery, u wanna hit em hard and then get them out of range
and ofc, sliding is Controller territory, or I suppose, to a lesser extent a leader territory too.
Suggestions:
Bear's claw: so, yeah morally Im siding for a pull 1 Sq, but...
Imposing bear: I called mine Watchful Spirits, same stuff.
Howling Distraction: haha I called this one Prepare the Circle.. reminds me, when granting allies shifting do you need to say Shift X sq "as a free action"? or is that included in the process?
==
BEAR
Oky, so for at-will choices, we have a "mark", a "pull" and, my otehr "THP" one so, as a secondary defender Im thinking that only 1 at-will goverens this role fully. So what in your opinion would be the best choiices:? im thinking the "thp" and the "mark"
SERPENT
right: we now have a "1 turn dmg" power, and your one of granting a mark, which actually does fit into the role of "versatility" haha, everything does !!
WOLF
A typical "shift" one, and my other which is an ally incarnation of valiant strike:
Wolfs’ Assault
Being surrounded by those you trust and rely on gives fuel to your strike. Your wolf spirit provides the energy for an ally to share this feeling
At-Will* Primal, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom (+1 per each adjacent ally) vs. AC
Hit: 1[w] + Wisdom modifier damage. One ally adjacent to you gains a +1 bonus to their next attack rolls until the end of your next turn. This increases by 1 for each additional ally adjacent to them.
Level 21: 2[w] + Wisdom modifier damage.
BEAR
“There is no enemy we cannot outlast or overpower”
Each path has a little "quote" from a mentor spirit, and this is the bears one:
Weapon Set: 1h + heavy shield
Role: Leader: no explanation
Sub Role: Defensive Support leader: gives boosts to defences, healing and THP, save throw bonuses etc
Secondary Role: Defender: places more stress on it being defensive leadership.. with a nice excuse for some protecting.
Bear's Claw: I was thinking that you slide your enemy into flanking position or divert them from allies. If you want it to pull it would need reach or gain range.
Temp. Hit points would be fine, though it usually benefits the allies rather than the leader themselves, so I worry if this would divert you too much from the Leadery path. Anyways other ideas alongside with that go like penalty to attack rolls, or higher penaltys against opportunity attacks. (-2 to attack rolls at most, and Mod against opportunity attacks.) Ardents would be good thing to look at for the bear (having secondary defender as well).
Wolf's Assault: Too good right now, too many bonuses as well as things probably shouldn't be # of allies dependent as small parties would feel blah. Maybe you hit, then ally gets bonus to hit? If I think about anything similar I'll post it later.
Bear's Endurance
With your attack, you spirit imbues you or your ally with the endurance of the bear, allowing you to shake of shattering blows.
At-Will* Healing,Primal, Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon
Target: One Creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage and an ally adjacent to you gains temporary hit points equal to one-half your level + your X (STR?) Modifier. If no allies are adjacent to you, you gain temporary hit points equal to your X modifier.
Level 21: 2[W] + Wisdom modifier damage.
Kind of wordy, but it gives it a leadery feel, but you can also give it to yourself if no one is adjacent to you.
Ursine Surge
Keeping this foe off of an ally allows ursine vitality to flow into your allies.
At-Will* Primal, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Constitution vs. AC
Hit: 1[w] + Constitution modifier damage. Each ally adjacent to you gains temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier.
Level 21: 2[w] + Wisdom modifier damage
Hiya mate!... sorry i aint posted in awhile. been quite busy. And ive taken alittle break from Surviving! haha
I do like your idea... Ill take it (£9.99 please!)
Ive also taken to creating another new class. whose a martial Ranged striker... with absolutely NONE,ZILCH melee capability :+)
the really annoying thing is the name, flavour and features... even the feats and the at-wills were thought of within 2 hours. the Survivor took a few bloody weeks just to get the features and feats balanced!
===
cheers for the idea mate...it will be quite a while afore the Survivor is published as exams r coming up n shtuff. Say like, a few months? (i exagerate and am quite pessimistic
Yours thankfully
Ifritus :+)
Yes my friend, I am "working" on it... but I have not actually made any progress, in fact after my last post I havnt even glanced at it, instead working on a little idea of mine a "Homebrew PH1" if you may, basically it was a Shadow power focused HB, with Divine and ofc Primal dudes too. But the "classes" were all thin lined and watery at best, so i scrapped them and every other Hb class idea i came up with, until I hit a potentially good one of the Reaver, which basically was a Shadow form of the primal barbarian, both are strikrs and both were 2H fanatics.
but then jsut three days ago I had a brainstorm of an idea... Another Martial Striker to add to the pile... the Juggernaut. same Hp as the fighter, and has the flavour of a scale armor fanatic and a completely and utterly 2H weapon dedicated fighter. The traits came easy, the PPs did too, though the feats were a problem and actually the class features were the bigges problem.
and get this, the bloody powers are flowing like rivers, I have at-wills and levels 1-15 dailys and Utilityies done... which comes to my problem, me encounter powers are givin me jip... I am utterly blocked when it comes to them... which is incidentally the real problem of my Survivor issue, Im utterly blank when thinking of ideas, though the juggernaut kinda pathed me for the dailys
Some classes, like our dear friend the barbarian have themed daily powers, in this case rages.
so i nabbed that idea and themed the dailys for the juggernaut, giving two options for each of the "choices" from teh class features.
so that answers my daily problem, I merely need to think of a power theme for bear, serpent and wolf
such as for the juggernaut, the themes are Mental Focus: ????? and ?????? Rampage
I really do love the idea of my rampaging juggernaut, and the more unorthodox Focused Juggernaut.
basically the rampager makes use of the 2h weps wieght and his power to create momentum which allows him to "rampage" about the battlefield mashing foes into a pulp
As a side question.... one of my PPs the Devastator allows the juggernaut,and I quote:
Devastating Blows (11th level): when you make a successful attack with a two-handed hammer or mace, the enemy takes a permanent cumulative -1 penalty to their AC.
which is in addition to any power effects, but I make it quite clear that it has to hit. Im not worried about the "permanent" thing, thats the whole idea, im just unsure if allowing it to accumulate with each blow is not OPing it, incidenally the 16th feature allwos a crit on 19-20.
and heres its utilty somehting also im unsure of:
Master Sunderer
You revel in making foes vulnerable by renting armor and shield, this enjoyment gives you strength to excel in this field.
Daily* Martial
Minot Action Personal
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, whenever you impose a penalty to AC whilst wielding a two-handed hammer or mace, that penalty is reduced by 1 but becomes permanent.
anyhow... back to the Survivor thing.. I will certainly get working on it... but i might not "release" it until i have the sufficient 8 classes for a Hb PH1.... the way i worked it, was in each of the HBs, one source(the main one) got 4 classes and the other 2 got 2 each, with an accumulated 3 strikers, 2 leaders and eitehr 1/2 defenders or 1/2 controllers.
a lot of me ideas were pants, but some do have potential, and my Juggernaut means scrapping the Divine source as the third... so its a Shadow, Martial and Primal class book haha
and Im ressurecting my very failed primal striker the Lycan... now that I have the druid for some holding ground I can get him moulded properly.
But ofc If I cant have a basis for 8 classes in say 2 weeks Ill just focus the few i have and release em.
and ofc about that leader healer, I will take it to one ally, and then do some scaling on the secondaty healing and the number of targets, which the feats will help with.
all the best, ifritus
I unsure of Devastating Blows, while most enemies won't live very long to succumb to multiple penalties there are other things to think about.
1st: After each hit, it becomes easier to hit and then hinder the foe even more ect. 2: this bonus affects everyone in the party, meaning everyone will have a bonus to hit. 3: The wording potential would allow a implement user (that uses hammers and maces) apply that penalty several times on a huge bunch of enemies: 4: Stacking is wierd. A power that further decreases AC at the same time could cause problems.
-1 usually isn't much of an issue, but stacking is bad. I reccommend against a feature like this, but it's your class.
Master sunderer should be a stance. I recommend that you make it: Whenever you use a power that decreases your targets AC, increase the penalty by 1, Rather than make it permanent. That would work for the class feature as well. (or make it they take a -1 penalty to AC until the end of your next turn.)
Okay, here's the full PP, altered and with comments:
DEVASTATOR
“I can potentially kill you with one blow, but where’s the fun in that?”
Prerequisite: Juggernaut Class, Mighty Blows
You revel in the power two-handed weapons bring, particularly the crushing weapons like hammers and maces, where each blow warps and rents armor till in becomes useless, mashing enemies into an unrecognisable pulp in the process. You devastate the battlefield with your destructive power and you enjoy it!
(Any qualms with the flavour, I think its nice and rebellious!)
DEVASTATOR PATH FEATURE
Devastating Blows (11th level): when you make a successful attack with a two-handed hammer or mace, the enemy takes a -1 penalty to their AC until the end of your next turn.
(It slipped my mind that strikers are 1 enemy focused, so potentially, this is permanent, well at least
until the thing is killed)
Devastator’s Action (11th level): When you spend an action point to take an attack action, you deal an extra 1[w] damage, on a crit, deal an addional 2[w] damage.
(A regular old action point damage boost)
Devastation (16th level): You may attain a critical hit with two-handed weapons on a roll of 19-20. If you ever recieve a feat, feature or power bonus that allows you to attain a critical hit on a roll of 19-20, you may instead attain it on a roll of 18-20, for as long as the feat or feature allows.
And the powers:
NO ENCOUNTER (Im cursed with Encounter power creation block)
Level 12 Utility Exploit
Master Sunderer
You revel in making foes vulnerable by renting armor and shield, this enjoyment gives you strength to excel in this field.
Daily* Martial, Stance
Minor Action Personal
Effect: Until the stance ends, whenever you impose a penalty to AC whilst wielding a two-handed hammer or mace, that penalty is increased by 1
Level 20 Daily Exploit
Devastating Assault
No foe, no matter how tough their armor, can withstand this assault.
Daily* Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a two-handed hammer or mace
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 5[w] + Strength modifier damage (+2[w] on a critical hit) and if the target was wielding a shield, they lose the shield bonus until the end of the encounter. If not, they take a penalty to AC equal to your Strength modifier.
Special: If the effects of the Master Sunderer power are active, double the bonus increase to the AC penalty
here is the newly changed healing power, and its associated feats/PP features
Primal Surge
A flooding of healing energy grants your ally vitality, resonating with the allies around him, shielding them from harm.
Encounter* Healing, Primal
Minor Action Close burst 5 (10 at 16th level)
Target: You or one ally in burst
Effect: the target may spend a healing surge and you may carry out the secondary effect.
Secondary Target: One ally within close burst 1 ofthe primary target.
Secondary Effect: the target gains 1D6 temporary hit points.
Level 6: 1D6 + Wisdom modifier temporary hit points.
Level 11: Two allies within close burst 1 of the target and 2D6 + Wisdom modifier temporary hit points
Level 16: 3D6 temporary hit points
Level 21: Three allies within close burst 2 of the primary target and 4D6 temporary hit points.
Level 26: 5D6 temporary hit points
Winter’s Grace (16th level): The primary target of the Primal Surge power now also gains resist 5 + your Wisdom modifier cold damage. At 21st level this increases to 10 + your Wisdom modifier.
EMPOWRED SURGE (HEROIC)
Prerequisite: Survivor, Primal Surge
Benefit: the primary target of the primal surge power now gains additional hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier.
TACTICAL SURGE (PARAGON)
Prerequisite: Survival, Primal Surge
Benefit: The primary target of the primal surge power may now shift up to two squares. In addition, you may choose to carry out the secondary effect either before or after the primary target shifts.
I currently do not have an epic tier feat associated with the leader healing power at the present, if you have any suggestions Id be glad to hear em!.
Primal Surge
A flooding of healing energy grants your ally vitality, resonating with the allies around him, shielding them from harm.
Encounter* Healing, Primal
Minor Action Close burst 5 (10 at 16th level)
Target: You or one ally in burst
Effect: the target may spend a healing surge and one ally adjacent to the target gains 1d6 temp. Hit points.
Level 6: 2 allies adjacent to the target gain 1d6 temporary hit points.
Level 11: 2 allies within 2 squares of the target gain 1d8 temp. hit points.
Level 16: 2 allies within 2 squares of the target gain 2d6 temp. Hit points.
Level 21: 2 allies within 3 squares of the target gain 2d8 temp. Hit points
Level 26: 3 allies within 3 squares of the target gain 2d6 temp. Hit points.
The Devastating Blows is much better. You may want to drop the deal 2[w] damage on a crit on the Devastator's Action. I'm not sure if it's broken, but on a class that focuses on crits it seems overboard. Plus I have another idea to incorporate something similar.
Devastation: May want to make it just 18-20 with X weapon with Juggernaut powers or Devastator powers. or just 19-20. The feat thing I guess is fine, but rather confusing.
Devastating Assault: Too powerful, especially against someone without a shield as that is potentially a +5 (at least) to attack rolls with all you allies. And the damage is high too. And your missing a miss line. Maybe:
Hit: 3[W] + strength modifier damage and the target takes a -2 penalty to AC (save ends).
If you score a critical hit this attack deals an additional 2[w] damage.
Miss: Half damage and the target takes a -2 penalty to AC until the end of your next turn.
As for an encounter power, how about something like the Daggermaster:
Rising Devastation Devastator Attack 11
Your crushing blow leaves your foe open for further onslaught.
Encounter* Martial, Weapon
Minor Action Melee Weapon
Target: The same creature you hit with a critical hit
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Special:You must have scored a critical hit with a 2-handed mace or hammer against an enemy during this turn.
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.
As usual, you bring me down from high in the clouds!
Survivor Stuff:
the healing power:
Primal Surge
A flooding of healing energy grants your ally vitality, resonating with the allies around him, shielding them from harm
Encounter* Healing, Primal
Minor Action Close burst 5 (10 at 16th level)
Target: You or one ally in burst
Effect: the target may spend a healing surge and one ally adjacent to the target gains 1D6 temporary hit points.
Level 6: two allies adjacent to the target gain1D6 temporary hit points
Level 11: 1D8 temporary hit points
Level 16: 2D6 temporary hit points, and you may choose allies who are up to two squares away from the target.
Level 21: 2D8 temporary hit points
Level 26: three allies within three squares of the target gain 2D6 temporary hit points.
and the feat now says slide,and the PPs feature is till end of nxt turn (can blieve i forgot that)
Cheers~!
Devastator’s Action (11th level): When you spend an action point to take an attack action, you deal an extra 1[w] damage, on a crit, deal an additional 1[w] damage.
Devastation (16th level): You may attain a critical hit with two-handed weapons on a roll of 18-20 with juggernaut powers or devastator powers.
Level 11 Encounter Exploit
Rising Devastation
Your crushing blow leaves your foe open for further onslaught.
Encounter* Martial, Weapon
Immediate Reaction Melee Weapon
Trigger: You scored a critical hit with a two-handed hammer or mace.
Target: The same creature you hit with the critical hit
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Level 12 Utility Exploit
Master Sunderer
You revel in making foes vulnerable by renting armor and shield, this enjoyment gives you strength to excel in this field.
Daily* Martial, Stance
Minor Action Personal
Effect: Until the stance ends, whenever you impose a penalty to AC whilst wielding a two-handed hammer or mace, that penalty is increased by 1
Level 20 Daily Exploit
Devastating Assault
No foe, no matter how tough their armor, can withstand this assault.
Daily* Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a two-handed hammer or mace
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 3[W] + strength modifier damage and the target takes a -2 penalty to AC (save ends).
If you score a critical hit this attack deals an additional 2[w] damage.
Miss: Half damage and the target takes a -2 penalty to AC until the end of your next turn.
Oops (that probly the most common oversight of power creation, daily miss effect lines!!)
there we go!
(cheers for the encounter idea, I lyke it, and the other stuff too!)
my HBPH1 is going better than expected, I have traits, flavour, builds and class features for all 8 of em, now onto the PP's and feats.. then its tackling the At-Will/daily/utility powers of each class one by one (im leaving ALL encounter powers till the very end!!)
Well, thanks again pal!
Now those things I did not know (doing immediates on ure turn, and slapping on a trigger to free actions)
Well, cheers for that.
Rising Devastation
Your crushing blow leaves your foe open for further onslaught.
Encounter* Martial, Weapon
Free Action Melee Weapon
Trigger: You scored a critical hit with a two-handed hammer or mace.
Target: The same creature you hit with the critical hit
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.
hm... Im going to post the flavour of each of mmy HBPH1 classes, just sos i can make sure they make sense in both context of their source and how i want them portrayed.
so thanks for that... oh and get how Optimistic I am (VERY unusual) I have already started to thread concepts for what 3 sources are to be in HBPH2 haha... I was thinking Elemental, Psioinic and either Arcane or Divine. but with the fluxing between the official HBs this one has 2 controllers and 1 defender, the opposite of the one im working on.