I gave minions their constitution score in hit points. So far (and we're only level 3, almost 4) this has been the ideal number. Players usually kill them in 1.5 hits, so they can tell they're minions early in the battle, but they treat them more seriously now. They enjoy tactically handling them instead of just sweeping them off the board as a chore.
They have their constitution score in hit points. They have no bloodied value, because that would make them super easy to kill. A critical hit instantly kills them. A miss that deals damage still deals damage, instead of never taking damage from a miss. Usually, if a player deals damage to multiple minions with one attack I kill half of them (rounded down). This gives a much better feel to the players. When the swordmage fires flame cyclone into a group of minions instead of something that just means, "You killed all the minions." they see, "You killed a few and injured the rest." So far this has been great with the group, but I'm not sure how it will work on higher levels, they may require more hit points to be the same challenge they are now.
Any other minion ideas or modifications of this? Try it and let me know what you think.
Personally, I'd prefer it if minions weren't so trivial, but I've yet to be bothered enough by it that I'd playtest ways to remedy the issue.
Anyway, your house rule seems like a decent way of balancing the issue, at least for the most part. You might stumble across particularly hardy minions, or it might be a bit much for minions at the earliest levels, and possibly too trivial again at epic tier.
Other house rules I've heard about was that minions have their level worth of HP (meaning between 1 and 30), or that minions get a single saving throw against dying (and if they succeed they're bloodied and don't get a second save next time they take damage; if they fail, they die).
What i do: If minions take 10+lvl* damage, they are killed, otherwise they are bloodied. Any damage to a bloodied minion kills them.
It still averages out to the 1.5 hits that you'r method does, but requires less math and let's players use their "bloodied enemy" stuff more.
*I may have to change this to Con score, i think it might scale better.
Just my idea and .02 credits
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If you don't mind the minion hp tracking, (and if you do, all I have to say is we've been tracking hp on every monster on the field for every version before 4, so it's not a big deal) after looking at higher level monsters I think I might add +2 hp at paragon tier, +4 at epic. Might need more.
Also, getting a some kind of combat manager program helps me with minion tracking. Before the fight begins I give them temp hitpoints to get them where I want them. Works fine for me. I use DnD4e Combat Manager.
I plan on using minions for fight-the-flow encounters at points, but I like using them all different ways. But fight-the-flow encounters are why I kill half the minions you hit with area attacks. I like the idea of firing spells into a wave/wall of enemies and killing some, crippling others.
I really mind tracking minion HP. I leave them at 1 for my "minion fix".
Instead I always have minions come from "spawn points" every so often during the fight. dx rounds, whatever.
You can kill all the minions right away, but they will just be back. Instead you have to try to stop the spawner. Whether it be a magic orb that animates skeletons, a pool of water that spawns water elementals, a door from which more guards come (block it), or even a special summoner foe, who summons some as a standard action recharge 5/6.
This means less foes are in the room at the start of the fight, so PCs don't automatically assume "Sweet minion fight". And it means that the minions are rarely dealt with in a round or two.
I really mind tracking minion HP. I leave them at 1 for my "minion fix".
Instead I always have minions come from "spawn points" every so often during the fight. dx rounds, whatever.
You can kill all the minions right away, but they will just be back. Instead you have to try to stop the spawner. Whether it be a magic orb that animates skeletons, a pool of water that spawns water elementals, a door from which more guards come (block it), or even a special summoner foe, who summons some as a standard action recharge 5/6.
This means less foes are in the room at the start of the fight, so PCs don't automatically assume "Sweet minion fight". And it means that the minions are rarely dealt with in a round or two.
We had a battle like that, but we made the mistake of killing the minions first. They got back up and we put them down again, and again... Took us 4-5 rounds to switch focus to the big guys.
he doesn't necesary need to use minions if he wants to make a tougher fight just add more monsters to the encounter.
minions are fun to make fun i use em to bring spectacular descriptions of the fight to the players enjoyment. who doesn't love to point at a kobold and what it go BOOM!!? plus the minions are also there to make gameplay fun and faster*
I usually do not use the same minis(if u use em) or descriptions to represent them because the players can easily tell them appart so i mix em up to make em wary of all foes on the field. of course i make the hench men and boss stand out a bit by having them barking orders or throwing insults. ^.^ i love telling my PCs things that will make em make it personal with the monster. hehe. like ["females probably confuse u with a homeless dog. haha! yeah. your smell probably gives you away!! bwahahaha" and the rest of the minions smirk and laugh at you.]
Whether it be a magic orb that animates skeletons...
Freeze him! Stun him! something! I want to loot that orb for later use!
I really mind tracking minion HP. I leave them at 1 for my "minion fix".
Instead I always have minions come from "spawn points" every so often during the fight. dx rounds, whatever.
You can kill all the minions right away, but they will just be back. Instead you have to try to stop the spawner. Whether it be a magic orb that animates skeletons, a pool of water that spawns water elementals, a door from which more guards come (block it), or even a special summoner foe, who summons some as a standard action recharge 5/6.
This means less foes are in the room at the start of the fight, so PCs don't automatically assume "Sweet minion fight". And it means that the minions are rarely dealt with in a round or two.
I used about the same encounter, and my players loved it. It was a fight against level-advanced kruthiks, and there were always four kruthik minions on the board at any one time. As the players beat down the non-minion kruthiks, more minions got caught in the crossfire, and kept respawning. I found that four minions with relatively high AC is an ideal number. Relatively easy to spread out and protect from AoE's, and sort of hard to put down, but without the threat of just swarming and gang-shtupping the PCs.
We had a battle like that, but we made the mistake of killing the minions first. They got back up and we put them down again, and again... Took us 4-5 rounds to switch focus to the big guys.
I usually let the players know thats how I do them, so that they have the idea in their head "break this thing". Or I let them know somehow during the encounter "More skeletons are summoned from that orb, if you break it they will stop."
Freeze him! Stun him! something! I want to loot that orb for later use!
I think I might be tempted to let that fly as a DM. (Or maybe I could drop some sort of DM fiat jerk "the orb broke" thing, but probably not.)
You might also want to consider designing combats so that minions get some kind of boost (perhaps from the aura of another monster) that makes them more effective.
Wouldn't it be a much simpler fix to just make the minions harder to hit? If your players are concerned they go down easy, then up the minions' AC by 2. Or if you want to require a "solid" strike to kill them on one hit, make them beat the AC by 2-5 points.
Not hitting is not fun. The math works out the same in the end, but the players feel ineffectual against the enemies through which they should be cutting bloody swathes.
Likewise, I'm also noticed that the players have less fun when the DM (not me) picks up the minions before they get to roll damage. I'm not sure whether or not leaving them there just long enough for them to tally damage would fix it, or if I should actually go with one of these HP-related solutions, when I take up the mantle.
Not hitting isn't fun, but also I find that most of my minions die from people with auto-damage powers. Stuff like "I am on fire, anyone next to me takes 3 damage", or "Whoever attacks me takes 3 damage after their attack".
So I don't know how much this would ease the problem, but it would defiantly make more people miss and then complain.
(Side note, a system where you never miss an attack, but only have degrees of success sounds neat. Keeping in mind that HP represents more than just health remaining, but ability to dodge, morale and energy)
Minions always have 1 Hit Point.
If a Leader is in the group Minions have Hit Points equal to their Level. If the leader is defeated then the minions drop back down to 1 Hit Point.
Also some suggestion I've seen here on the boards and plan to try out.
Have minions that make the leader tougher if they are killed.
Also use minions that are 4 or 5 levels higher then the PCs. They will die with 1 hit, but its alot harder to hit them now.
Use minions with Damage Resistance All (Adamantine Gerbils rock!!!).
Wouldn't it be a much simpler fix to just make the minions harder to hit? If your players are concerned they go down easy, then up the minions' AC by 2. Or if you want to require a "solid" strike to kill them on one hit, make them beat the AC by 2-5 points.
Not hitting is not fun. The math works out the same in the end, but the players feel ineffectual against the enemies through which they should be cutting bloody swathes.
Likewise, I'm also noticed that the players have less fun when the DM (not me) picks up the minions before they get to roll damage. I'm not sure whether or not leaving them there just long enough for them to tally damage would fix it, or if I should actually go with one of these HP-related solutions, when I take up the mantle.
It all comes down to fluff. Describe every attack against a minion as a minor hit when the player misses and a deadly blow when he hits. More fluff, less mechanics, that's the heart of rp.
My house rule: Minions die on one hit, even if that hit does no damage. Any source of damage that does not involve chucking a d20 and comparing it to a defense instead merely bloodies the minion.
Thats a pretty good solution. Keeping that one in mind.