Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Tectorman Apr 02, 2011 1:09:20	First off, let me begin by saying that I don't consider this a necessary change or a fix.  I think the Shifter race is lackluster as is, but is otherwise fine, if on the underside of fine.  This is a "would be nice", not a "can't work without". My idea for improving the Shifter race is to drop the distinction between the two kinds and just simply have one race. Shifter Ability Scores: +2 Wisdom, +2 Strength or Dexterity Size: Medium Speed: 6 squares Vision: Low-light Languages: Common, choice of one other Skill Bonuses: (Here's the question: see below) Weretouched: You gain the both Longtooth Shifting and Razorclaw Shifting powers.  In any given encounter, you may use only one of the powers. (And then the Longtooth and Razorclaw Shifting powers continue to work as normal.) Feats that require you to be a specific kind of Shifter now simply require you to be a Shifter. My question is simply this: do you think in this change it would be better to go the whole route and say "+2 Acrobatics, +2 Athletics, +2 Endurance, +2 Stealth"? Or go halfway: "+2 to your choice (made at character creation and can't be changed later) of two of the following four: Acrobatics, Athletics, Endurance, Stealth"?
#2 Crimson_Concerto Apr 02, 2011 1:28:51	My question is simply this: do you think in this change it would be better to go the whole route and say "+2 Acrobatics, +2 Athletics, +2 Endurance, +2 Stealth"? Or go halfway: "+2 to your choice (made at character creation and can't be changed later) of two of the following four: Acrobatics, Athletics, Endurance, Stealth"? I'd say the second one. I also tend to agree that Shifters should get spiced up, but I'm not sure that this would be the best way to do it. My personal problem with them is that they only seem to have racial features once they get bloodied, so my proposed solution would be to actually give them racial features. If this works well enough for you and your group, though, then go for it.
#3 dieffenbachj Apr 02, 2011 2:13:20	I removed the choice, but only had two skills. Here's my total shifter update: SHIFTER Ferocious heirs of the wild, the perfect fusion of civilized race and wild beast Racial Traits Average Height: 5'7”-6'0” Average Weight: 130-180 lb. Ability Scores: +2 Wisdom; +2 Strength or +2 Dexterity Size: Medium Speed: 6 squares Vision: Low-light Languages: Common, choice of one other Skill Bonuses: +2 Acrobatics, +2 Athletics Natural Weapon: You gain a natural weapon, which is a weapon in the light blades weapon group with the off-hand weapon property, a +3 proficiency bonus, and deals 1d6 damage. Scent: You gain a +5 racial bonus to Perception checks made to track and to Insight checks made to penetrate an illusion or disguise, or in other situations where scent is relevant to the check. Shapechanger: You are a shapechanger; you can alter your appearance. As such, you are subject to effects and conditions that affect shapechangers. Shifting: You have the shifting power. Shifting    Shifter Racial Utility You unleash the beast within and take on a savage countenance. Encounter ♦ Polymorph Minor Action    Personal Effect: Choose one of the following. Cliffwalk: You gain a climb speed of 4 until the end of the encounter. If you were bloodied at the time you used shifting, you gain a +1 bonus to AC and Reflex. Beasthide: You gain resist 2 to all damage (resist 4 at level 11, 6 at level 21) until the end of the encounter. If you were bloodied at the time you used shifting, you gain temporary hit points equal to 5 + one-half your level. Longstride: Your speed increases by 2 until the end of the encounter. If you were bloodied at the time you used shifting, you gain a +1 bonus to AC and Reflex. Longtooth: Until the end of the encounter, your natural weapon attacks may grab your target. If you were bloodied at the time you used shifting, you gain regeneration 2 (regeneration 4 at level 11, 6 at level 21). Razorclaw: You gain the razorclaw power. If you were bloodied at the time you used shifting, the penalty to razorclaw attack rolls is reduced to -1. Special: When you create your character, choose which effect you use when using this power. This choice remains throughout your characters' life. Razorclaw    Shifter Racial Attack You move quickly enough to slash with one hand while attacking with the other. At-Will (Special) ♦ Weapon Free Action    Melee 1 Requirement: You must have one hand free. Trigger: You hit with a melee attack on your turn. Target: The enemy you hitAttack: Strength -2 vs. AC (natural weapon) Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage. Special: You can only use this power once per round.
#4 rampant Apr 02, 2011 4:09:33	Natural weapon as racial feature, needs to go.  One thing I was thinking of for the shifters was actually to reduce the potency of the shifting power, hand out some actual features, and then create a series of feats that add things on to the shifting power.
#5 thanerhogar Apr 02, 2011 10:42:43	A big stack of racial encounter powers to choose from that have encounter-long benefits is completely unprecedented.  I like the philosophy behind what you've done here dieffenbachj, but resist 2/4/6 all as a minor action to have it up ALL THE TIME seems really, really broken as a racial power, even if you never get the THP out of it (and let's face it, why would you? the only time you won't just pop this on turn one is if you're almost bloodied by then and you want to risk waiting until the next turn, but if you're at full, the combined effect of the resist all is going to save you similar numbers).  The free speed and climb speed bonuses are less egregious, but you simply aren't meant to have a racial power that's up 100% of the time like these are. Natural weapons are really just a bad plan, if you're gonna have them, make a feat to get them and for God's sake make sure they're enchantable (or preferably use inherent bonuses or something, because nobody should be spending gold to enchant that otherwise except in weird corner cases) so they can be used past level 3 without gimping.  Of course, if you made the natural weapon scale, the razorclaw ability is still going to be useless to 90% of all shifters, the ones who don't pump str enough to hit at a -2 or -1, and/or aren't making melee attacks with one handed weapons while keeping the other hand free... which means the only characters who can actually take advantage of it are brawler fighters, brutal scoundrel rogues, and iron fist monks, and for them, it's about 80% of a striker feature just on its own.  At will free action attacks are going to be impossible to balance, especially as racials. As to OP, I can't see any reason for shifters to be the only race with four skill bumps.  It won't patch the hole in their combat capability but it will make them better at physical skills than pretty much any other race for no reason other than that you felt like it.  If it seems like a good balance at your table, do it I guess.  I'd also recommend making them choose one shifting power and stick with it, just like drow have to now.  Then all you've done is condense shifters into one cohesive race with stat choices like other races have, which seems like the best goal here.
#6 Tectorman Apr 03, 2011 14:09:27	First off, I didn't want to add in a whole lot, which is why I never thought to add in any unprecedented racial traits.  The other reason for that is that my only inspiration for things to add to the Shifter race is the previous edition's Shifter race (which would only take the form of more shifting powers to choose from and have available) and the previous edition's Catfolk race, which only had excellent hearing and vision, and a bonus to AC, speed, Dex, and Cha (almost all of which is best summed up by the Razorclaw Shifter, anyway). Regarding Dieffenbachj's version, I don't really think I can take anything from there.  Natural weapons not gained via a feat which non-weapon-using classes can just opt not to take are just a bad idea.  Scent would be fitting, except Gnoll's can only get that through a feat (meaning that they don't automatically start out with it) and I tend to think of Gnolls as being more bestial than Shifters.  The additional Shifting options seem like a place to start, except I'd have to rewrite them more like the Genasi.  For example, a Cliffwalk Shifter would just have Climb 4 always on, and the bonus to AC and Reflex would be the actual racial power. I could look at the fix I made to the previous edition's Catfolk.  There, I added a Slow Fall-ish ability, a boost to their unarmed attacks, and bonus to saves against compulsion and a penalty to saves against charming. Now, touching their unarmed attacks is way too pidgeon-holing.  The Slow Fall is really mostly taken care of.  Half the time, a Shifter will be taking a boost to Dex; in either case, they have the potential to get a bonus to Acrobatics.  And from outside sources, there's a Monk utility that reduces falling damage, being trained in Acrobatics allows you to reduce falling damage, and there's a feat from the Art of the Assassin article that makes you better able to reduce falling damage, so I don't see how I can add anything not already addable, anyway. The best I could do would be: Cat-Fall: You do not fall prone from taking falling damage. (Of course, taking enough falling damage to knock you unconscious or outright kill you still would knock you prone.) So, I might add that, and then something to replicate the bonus to saves against compulsion. Shifter Pride: (version 1) You gain a +5 bonus to saving throws against any conditions that render you dominated. (Version 2) You may make a saving throw against any condition that renders you dominated at the start of your turn, rather than at the end of your turn.  If you fail that saving throw, you don't roll a saving throw against that condition at the end of your turn, as well. (Incidentally, I houserule the Drow back to the previous version, where they still get both powers.)