---------------------------------------------------------
Monk
New Class Features
You can select the Meditant Blade feature in place of the Unarmed Combatant class feature. You lose proficiency with the monk unarmed strike, and gain proficiency with the mind blade instead.
Meditant Blade
You are able to channel your mental awareness and psionic potential to sheathe your attacks with blades of pure energy. When you make an attack such as a melee basic attack, you can use the mind blade, which is a weapon in the light blade group. This weapon has the light thrown and off-hand weapon properties and a +3 proficiency bonus, and it deals 1d6 damage. You must have a hand free to use your mind blade. Your mind blade can't be turned into a magic weapon, but it can benefit from a magic ki focus if you have one (see "Implements" below).
---------------------------------------------------------
The most recent changes:
- Name of the feature changed. I think it sounds more like a class feature, and less like, y'know, a weapon.
- Removed the bit about "counts as a dagger" - I've since decided that it can have a little bit more of its own character.
- Removed the "When you make a weapon attack" bit, just so that nobody gets confused with Monk class powers (Implement, all of them) - you can use the mind blade with those powers..
Future Plans
There are feats included in the most recent post in this thread. I'll move them to the first post eventually.
I plan on adding a few more feats. I'm going to introduce a very limited version of the "shape" feats - probably just a two-handed (or versatile, haven't decided) version and a "two blade" version - each of which will come via feat, and will carry some other benefit to make it more worthwhile for a Monk (who really gains almost nothing from changing the blade's stats).
I'm considering expanding this to a full "build" for the Monk, with a strong caveat: I don't want to introduce another Flurry of Blows feature. There would be very little point in doing that. I had previously considered adding a power point using build - but it would be a ton of work to make function properly. Most likely, the "build" will simply be a set of theme-appropriate powers. Maybe even some ranged powers for the Monk (le gasp!).
Prior Version
New Class Features
You can select the Mind Blade feature in place of the Unarmed Combatant class feature. You lose proficiency with the monk unarmed strike, and gain proficiency with the mind blade instead.
Mind Blade
You are able to channel your mental awareness and psionic potential to sheathe your attacks with blades of pure energy. When you make a weapon attack such as a melee basic attack, you can use the mind blade, which is a weapon in the light blade group. This weapon has the light thrown and off-hand weapon properties and a +3 proficiency bonus, and it deals 1d6 damage. In addition, you can treat the mind blade as a dagger for the purposes of feats, class features, and powers. You must have a hand free to use your mind blade. Your mind blade can't be turned into a magic weapon, but it can benefit from a magic ki focus if you have one (see "Implements" below).
---------------------------------------------------------
Quickly, the changes:
Anyways, that's the current version I'm offering at my table. I expect to see something like it (potentially with powers supporting it - though they aren't really necessary).
New Class Features
You can select the Mind Blade feature in place of the Unarmed Combatant class feature. You lose proficiency with the monk unarmed strike, and gain proficiency with the mind blade instead.
Mind Blade
You are able to channel your mental awareness and psionic potential to sheathe your attacks with blades of pure energy. When you make a weapon attack such as a melee basic attack, you can use the mind blade, which is a weapon in the light blade group. This weapon has the light thrown and off-hand weapon properties and a +3 proficiency bonus, and it deals 1d6 damage. In addition, you can treat the mind blade as a dagger for the purposes of feats, class features, and powers. You must have a hand free to use your mind blade. Your mind blade can't be turned into a magic weapon, but it can benefit from a magic ki focus if you have one (see "Implements" below).
---------------------------------------------------------
Quickly, the changes:
- First, I added the removal of monk unarmed strike proficiency, and the addition of mind blade proficiency. Why? Without it, you weren't actually becoming proficient with the mind blade that you got.
- Second, I added that the mind blade counts as a dagger for the purposes of all feats, features, and powers. Why? Instead of adding additional feats to support the mind blade, it is more practical to merely use the existing dagger feat(s?). With this change, the Soulknife Monk can use their mind blade to utilize the Starblade Flurry feat - the effects of which would essentially be reproduced in a proper mind blade feat. It also allows one to build an even more effective "Soulknife" - using Hybrid Monk|Rogue (Rogue Weapon Talent will augment the Mind Blade).
Anyways, that's the current version I'm offering at my table. I expect to see something like it (potentially with powers supporting it - though they aren't really necessary).
i think you hit the nail on the head with that one. Personally I see the Battlemind as being similar to the Psychic Warrior rather then the Soulknife. I wonder what races will be out in the PHB3???
Honestly, I hope I have. The flavor and mechanics just work too well to pass it up.
That said, I suspect that the Battlemind might be a merger of the Soulknife and Psychic Warrior classes, but we'll just have to see.
I hope we see a psionic-themed race that isn't just the Gith, but I'm kind of suspecting that we'll have to wait until Darksun for that (which might be worth it, to have a non-level-adjusted Thri-kreen.
Why would anyone ever take this path?
As of right now, to the best of my knowledge, only a full monk can get unarmed combat. So why would any member of that class ever take this option? You can't throw it, charge it up, shape it into anything else, or any of the cool things a 3.5 sk did.
Um ok, you've got a shortsword, that has no special abilities, and deals less damage.
Why would anyone ever take this path?
As of right now, to the best of my knowledge, only a full monk can get unarmed combat. So why would any member of that class ever take this option? You can't throw it, charge it up, shape it into anything else, or any of the cool things a 3.5 sk did.
So give it the light thrown property and call it a day. "Shaping" it is simple, as all that is is decorative fluff. Dwarven monk soulknife? The mind blade looks like a hammer, etc.
...
Ok, that got me thinking. Maybe, in order to give it some flexibility, let the player pick the weapon type, so there can be actual shaping. Still keep the off-hand property, 1d6 damage, and +3 prof, but just change the weapon type. I might suggest picking a weapon type at creation, simply because I'm not sure how potentially broken the ability to have a light blade/hammer/mace/axe/etc on the fly would be. Thoughts?
What about this instead?
Soul Knife [General]
Requirement: Must be able to use Ki-focuses
Benefits: Select one weapon with which you are proficient, as a minor action you may create a weapon of that kind out of metal energy. This weapon has the enchantment of your current Ki-focus, and fades away one round after you let go of it.
+ Light Thrown
Um ok, you've got a shortsword, that has no special abilities, and deals less damage.
Why would anyone ever take this path?
As of right now, to the best of my knowledge, only a full monk can get unarmed combat. So why would any member of that class ever take this option? You can't throw it, charge it up, shape it into anything else, or any of the cool things a 3.5 sk did.
So give it the light thrown property and call it a day.
actually shaping it should be a feat, as it was in 3.5 and Soulknife itself should not be a feat. I think perhaps the Soulknife's bonus should be that they can use their powers at short range AND melee. This would be their defacto type build and make them the "ranged" Monk. Just an idea. Also attacking with the mind blade would be a "power" itself (Such as Int vs AC, or Dex vs AC). I think this could work but their needs to be more to the build then...just the mind blade. Make a complete full on build of the Mind Blade Monk and then it will be easier to judge.
The basic sk had three forms availiable, with feats and prestige classes granting expanded options.
Longsword
Weapon has some sort of bonus for using the longsword sense it is a power. Its a minor action and at-will Utility power.
Bastard Sword
Minor action and you are considered proficient with the weapon (1 handed wield) and its an at-will Utility power.
That is the best I can think of in my oppion, however I think the Soulknife should really work like a psychic barbarian the more I think about it (Instead of Rage they have Presence or something to that effect). Just my oppinion.
that's a good point there GF. However I think that the Soulknife should be considered a weapon and not unarmed attack, and there powers treated as such.
that's a good point there GF. However I think that the Soulknife should be considered a weapon and not unarmed attack, and there powers treated as such.
Well, as written, the mind blade is a weapon (just as the monk unarmed strike is a weapon). I'm guessing that you mean their powers should be weapon powers instead (thus using the MB stats)?
If so, I disagree. Part of the point of using the Monk as a base is that its mechanics so smoothly absorb the mind blade, while still retaining good Striker damage.
The Soulknife Monk is certainly different than the 3.5 Soulknife, but I don't think that's a problem. Realistically, one can get a more "3.5-feeling" Soulknife by mixing via multiclass (or hybrid) with Rogue for the ranged "Light Blade" powers (or maybe even Ranger). You'll wind up with a Psionic/Martial mix, but really that was the impression I always got from the (wild talent only) 3.5 Soulknife.
That said, while I wouldn't put build-specific ranged monk powers in, I wouldn't be opposed to the Monk gaining a few short-range powers (though when I tried to write them up, I really just fell back to "Why not just MC Rogue or Ranger?). Though instead of real "ranged" powers, I'd rather see something more unique, like "Melee touch + 3" or something.
On Weapon Types...
After looking at the "Monks and Weapons" sidebar again, I think we can add the feel and effect of different weapon types to the mind blade without having to change it around too much.
Including a few feat options that merely add a property to the M.B. (and perhaps give you an additional weapon-group option, though it could only be one at a time) could solve it. One to add Brutal. One to add Defensive. One to add High Crit. Perhaps even one to add Stout. If I'm reading the sidebar properly, the properties should be applicable to all of the monk attacks.
After looking at the "Monks and Weapons" sidebar again, I think we can add the feel and effect of different weapon types to the mind blade without having to change it around too much.
Including a few feat options that merely add a property to the M.B. (and perhaps give you an additional weapon-group option, though it could only be one at a time) could solve it. One to add Brutal. One to add Defensive. One to add High Crit. Perhaps even one to add Stout. If I'm reading the sidebar properly, the properties should be applicable to all of the monk attacks.
Now that I have the PH3, and the Monk class (So good!) in hand, I wanted to revisit this.
First, the feature itself:
---------------------------------------------------------Monk
New Class Features
You can select the Mind Blade feature in place of the Unarmed Combatant class feature. You lose proficiency with the monk unarmed strike, and gain proficiency with the mind blade instead.
Mind Blade
You are able to channel your mental awareness and psionic potential to sheathe your attacks with blades of pure energy. When you make a weapon attack such as a melee basic attack, you can use the mind blade, which is a weapon in the light blade group. This weapon has the light thrown and off-hand weapon properties and a +3 proficiency bonus, and it deals 1d6 damage. In addition, you can treat the mind blade as a dagger for the purposes of feats, class features, and powers. You must have a hand free to use your mind blade. Your mind blade can't be turned into a magic weapon, but it can benefit from a magic ki focus if you have one (see "Implements" below).
---------------------------------------------------------
Quickly, the changes:
- First, I added the removal of monk unarmed strike proficiency, and the addition of mind blade proficiency. Why? Without it, you weren't actually becoming proficient with the mind blade that you got.
- Second, I added that the mind blade counts as a dagger for the purposes of all feats, features, and powers. Why? Instead of adding additional feats to support the mind blade, it is more practical to merely use the existing dagger feat(s?). With this change, the Soulknife Monk can use their mind blade to utilize the Starblade Flurry feat - the effects of which would essentially be reproduced in a proper mind blade feat. It also allows one to build an even more effective "Soulknife" - using Hybrid Monk|Rogue (Rogue Weapon Talent will augment the Mind Blade).
Anyways, that's the current version I'm offering at my table. I expect to see something like it (potentially with powers supporting it - though they aren't really necessary).The Original PostI finally got a good look at the (last) version of the Monk. I'm still eager to see the soulknife translated into 4th, but if it doesn't show up in the Battlemind (and it might - though if that class is a defender, it won't quite be the soulknife I'm looking for), I found an alternative that I kind of like. Namely:
MonkShowNew Class Features
You can select the Mind Blade feature in place of the Unarmed Combatant class feature.Mind Blade
You are able to channel your mental awareness and psionic potential to sheathe your attacks with blades of pure energy. When you make a weapon attack such as a melee basic attack, you can use the mind blade, which is a weapon in the light blade group. This weapon has the light thrown and off-hand weapon properties and a +3 proficiency bonus, and it deals 1d6 damage. When thrown, it has a range of 5/10. You must have a hand free to use your mind blade. Also, your mind blade can benefit from a magic ki focus if you have one (see "Implements" below). You are proficient with your mind blade.(v1)You are able to channel your mental awareness and psionic potential to sheathe your attacks with blades of pure energy. When you make a weapon attack such as a melee basic attack, you can use the mind blade, which is a weapon in the light blade group. This weapon has the off-hand weapon property and a +3 proficiency bonus, and it deals 1d6 damage. You must have a hand free to use your mind blade. Also, your mind blade can benefit from a magic ki focus if you have one (see "Implements" below). You are proficient with your mind blade.
This is brilliant. Just thought I'd say.
Thank you, it's much appreciated.
Is there anything like this that someone has done to make a Shadowdancer in 4e? (I know the Assassin is already really close, but I'm not sure if it's possible to make quite as good a fit as this. I figure something involving conjuring shadows as your build feature, with the shadows being able to add to damage somehow, and/or increase the utillity of your teleports.
I've forked this over into a different thread here (linky!). Though so far I think I'm going in the exact wrong direction.
I really want to play a soul knife monk...gah.
Anyways, I wound up coming back to this because, frankly, it's still the absolute best way to implement the "Soulknife" class. And I'm finally coming back around to it, to add some material.
======================================
Revision: See first post. In short: "counts as a dagger" removed, and "weapon attack" terminology removed. Oh, and the class feature name has changed, to better fit the Monk class.
Additions:
Feats
Greater Mind Blade
Prerequisites: Monk, Meditant Blade class feature
Benefits: The damage die of your mind blade becomes 1d8, instead of 1d6.
Meditant Warrior [Multiclass Monk]
Prerequisites: Dex 13
Benefits: You gain the Meditant Blade class feature.
Choose one of the monk's Flurry of Blows powers. You can use that power once per encounter.
In addition, you can weild monk implements.
Night Blade's Flurry
Prerequisites: Monk, Flurry of Blows class feature
Benefits: If you are wielding a light blade, your Flurry of Blows deals +2 damage to creatures you have combat advantage against. This increases to +3 damage at 11th level and +4 damage at 21st level.
Psychic Strike
Prerequisites: Monk, Meditant Blade class feature
Benefits: When you score a critical hit using your mind blade, the attack deals +1d6 psychic damage. This extra psychic damage increases to +2d6 at 11th level and +3d6 at 21st level.
(Damn! Rhyming!)
The "Meditant Blade Monk" Build will be getting its own suite of associated powers, but it won't be limited to a single Monastic Tradition, nor will it carry its own.
Instead, the powers will allow the use of Str, Con, or Wis for their riders, where appropriate. This will allow them to use your secondary score no matter which it is. In addition, the powers will not be build-limited in any way. I'm thinking of, instead, having the rider effects trigger off of using the Mind Blade with the power - much along the lines of the Iron Soul weapon-specific rider effects.
I actually have the "Build introduction" written. I'll post it here in a second. Posted.
Meditant Blade Monk
The meditant blade monk is one who has honed his skills in a different fashion than his bretheren. Instead of focusing his power completely inside, he channels it outside, more like true psionicists. Instead of relying on fists, you rely upon your mind blade - a trusty projection of your mental strength and focus. However, you still hail from one of the existing monastic traditions - you simply take a different approach to combat. Your highest ability score should be Dexterity. Your second highest should be determined by your monastic tradition choice: Strength for Stone Fist, Constitution for Iron Soul, or Wisdom for Centered Breath. The powers this build focuses on are influenced by this secondary ability, no matter which tradition you have chosen.
This build focuses on the more supernatural skirmishing powers associated with the meditant blade, but you may freely choose from other monk powers, especially those associated with your monastic tradition.
Suggested Feature: Meditant Blade
Suggested Feat: Night Blade's Flurry*
Suggested Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Perception, Stealth
Suggested At-Will Powers: TBD, TBD
Suggested Encounter Power: TBD
Suggested Daily Power: TBD
*New option presented in this book.
I must say, it's almost silly how excited I am about revisiting this concept, and fleshing it out into a full build (including fluff). I guess absence does make the heart grow fonder.
For homebrew material.
Anyways: First new power. Looking for feedback (of all kinds - mechanical, thematic, fluff, design, font choice, etc) before I move on to other powers.
==========================================
Level 1 At-Will Discipline
Darting Hawk Monk Attack 1
You move fast enough to blur across the battlefield and deliver a lunging strike that seems to supernaturally exceed your reach, followed by several more.
At-Will ♦ Full Discipline, Implement, Psionic
Attack Technique
Standard Action Melee 3
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d8 + Dexterity modifier damage. Until the end of your turn, you treat the target as adjacent for the purpose of your Flurry of Blows power.
Level 21: 2d8 + Dexterity modifier damage.
Movement Technique
Move Action Personal
Effect: Until the start of your next turn, you gain a +2 power bonus to all defenses against opportunity attacks. You then move your speed.
==========================================
Okay, comments (which are what I lost - completely - in the last post. Grrrr):
I want this to be a "fitting" option for "normal" monks too. I could have gone with the FinalFantasy "Wave Fist" - but I thought that was too much.
The reach seems like a lot - but it's only 1 more square than the monk can already do (via steel wind).
The damage seems right... but could probably be upped to 1d10 (most monk single-target at-wills seem to be d10, or smaler die and better control).
I think that "extra effect" should interact with Flurry of Blows how I intend it to. Centered Breath FoB won't work as well if the target is at the full 3 squares (you can't slide it 1 square to a square adjacent to you - need some kind of forced-movement increase).
I dunno. I like it. Just not completely confident in it.
EDIT: I kind of like the name "Darting Ghost" more. The Meditant Blade / "soulknife" powers could have more of a "spiritual" theme than the standard monk "animal" theme, perhaps.
So I'm going to scrap the whole "full build" idea. Which was a little sad - until I realized that the Iron Soul monk has rider effects on some powers that benefit from using a Light Blade.
Maybe need a note somewhere (for both the mind blade and the normal monk unarmed strike) that you can choose to count as wielding a weapon in one free hand when beneficial. *le shrug*