Access to "magic only" armor - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Access to "magic only" armor

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
sutasafaia
Jun 13, 2008 12:37:18 I'm not a new DM, but I am definately new (as are most I suppose) to the 4.0 system and how it all works. The only thing I've seen so far that strikes me as sorta strange is how armor is setup. There is a basic set of each category...and that's it? You can NEVER EVER have any of the better ones unless they are enchanted?

Meh.

I was considering setting up base prices for just the "magic only" armors and letting players who can find an appropriate racial smith that's good enough get access to them.

The only thing I was unsure of was price. Would multiplying the T2 armors by 100 and T3 armors by 1000 for prices work? Based on the prices of basic Magic Armor from page 230 (phb) being able to pick up a non-magical suit of Godplate Armor for 50,000 doesn't seem so far off the wall to me.

Is it an idea that will cause to many problem you think? I'm just trying to open up a few more options for players if they are willing to seek out specialist crafters is all. This doesn't seem horribly unbalancing to me, but I figure i'll check before I do it.
#2
eldritch_lord
Jun 13, 2008 13:33:23 Since antimagic fields, disjunction, etc. aren't in 4e (yet), the fact that better armors are always magical is purely flavor text. You're also expected to have certain pluses from magic weapons and armor, but since the bonuses won't go away in certain circumstances, you can make the bonuses from weapons and armor be from craftsmanship just as easily as from magic.

Basically, it's assumed that you'll have magic items at those junctures because D&D has always been like that--as you level up, you get more magic items. If you want to say that the bonuses are from craftsmanship instead of magic, you can do that, with no price change or mechanical changes required.
#3
sutasafaia
Jun 13, 2008 13:52:40 What I mean is, Plate gives a bonus of +8 AC. Godplate gives +14 AC. What if players just want a suit of Godplate that doesn't have any magical properties at all? I see no real reason not to let them aquire a suit assuming they find the proper craftsman.

As far as getting +1, +2 etc, that would have to come at the normal cost in the DMG. I was trying to basically make non-magical versions of the higher-end armors for cheaper than getting magical versions, without making the cost so low that everybody is running around in super armor, but not as high as getting +1 or other versions with usable spells attached to them.

If they want to spend the 45,000 for +4 Warplate armor more power to them. But would there be any harm in letting them get just basic Warplate for 4,500?
#4
eldritch_lord
Jun 13, 2008 17:10:00
What I mean is, Plate gives a bonus of +8 AC. Godplate gives +14 AC. What if players just want a suit of Godplate that doesn't have any magical properties at all? I see no real reason not to let them aquire a suit assuming they find the proper craftsman.

As far as getting +1, +2 etc, that would have to come at the normal cost in the DMG. I was trying to basically make non-magical versions of the higher-end armors for cheaper than getting magical versions, without making the cost so low that everybody is running around in super armor, but not as high as getting +1 or other versions with usable spells attached to them.

If they want to spend the 45,000 for +4 Warplate armor more power to them. But would there be any harm in letting them get just basic Warplate for 4,500?

Well, here's the thing. You have basic plate that gives +8 AC for 50 gp. Then you have Warplate that gives +11 and +4 worth of enhancements for the cost of +4 magic armor--the armor description says "See individual
magic items for their base market price and appropriate levels. The cost of masterwork armor is included in the cost of magic armor of 16th level or higher."

What that means is that at the level you'd first be able to get Warplate (16th) you can enchant regular plate with the magic +3 enchantment for a cost of 9,000 gp for the enchantment plus 50 gp for the armor. That gets you the same basic value of Warplate--+11 AC total.

So if you decrease the cost of Warplate to your example value of 4,500 gp, that means that your nonmagical Warplate is as effective as your enchanted regular plate but at half the cost. If you do that, you're effectively cutting the costs of magical armor in half, which would most likely drastically alter the assumed treasure balance of the game and cause problems. On top of that, the PCs would no longer be getting the extra assumed bonuses they're supposed to, which further unbalances the combat side of things. They'd have much more disposable loot but lower combat statistics, and as you have more limited combat-stat-enhancing items in 4e than in 3e, that only worsens the problems.

The point of the Warplate and Godplate are to provide armor increases at the right pace for the game to handle, and by changing the prices or effects of these armors you cause more problems than you solve. I'd say just stick with the armors as given.
#5
sutasafaia
Jun 14, 2008 15:25:54 I honestly never thought about that. Would still be nice if there were a few more options, but I guess that's what splat books are for. So far I'm liking the 4.0 system enough to wait for them at any rate.

Thanks for the help :3
#6
eldritch_lord
Jun 14, 2008 16:18:43
I honestly never thought about that. Would still be nice if there were a few more options, but I guess that's what splat books are for. So far I'm liking the 4.0 system enough to wait for them at any rate.

Thanks for the help :3

Not a problem. Supposedly the Tome of Treasures (or Adventurer's Vault or whatever they're calling it now) is going to have many more options for non-magical weapons and armor, so you might get what you want there.
#7
sutasafaia
Jun 14, 2008 18:43:50 Nice ^^ And yes, it's called the Tome of Treasures. It's on their list of future updates. I actually have a list of 2008's 4.0 books that I plan on picking up. I generally buy every splat book I can get my hands on whether it's Forgotten Realms, Ebberon, or D&D core (hey, the more classes/powers/stuff I can shove into my adventure the better I say).
#8
AvaronGansdell
Jun 14, 2008 21:51:01 Also those special types of armor might be the only type that can hold the power of high end enchantments.

now sure the elves could make there special difficult to create and expensive armor and not enchant it but it could be seen as a great waste of the materials.

its similar to how high quality iron was normaly reserved for use in weapons rather than wasted on cooking implements and toys.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 sutasafaia Jun 13, 2008 12:37:18	I'm not a new DM, but I am definately new (as are most I suppose) to the 4.0 system and how it all works. The only thing I've seen so far that strikes me as sorta strange is how armor is setup. There is a basic set of each category...and that's it? You can NEVER EVER have any of the better ones unless they are enchanted? Meh. I was considering setting up base prices for just the "magic only" armors and letting players who can find an appropriate racial smith that's good enough get access to them. The only thing I was unsure of was price. Would multiplying the T2 armors by 100 and T3 armors by 1000 for prices work? Based on the prices of basic Magic Armor from page 230 (phb) being able to pick up a non-magical suit of Godplate Armor for 50,000 doesn't seem so far off the wall to me. Is it an idea that will cause to many problem you think? I'm just trying to open up a few more options for players if they are willing to seek out specialist crafters is all. This doesn't seem horribly unbalancing to me, but I figure i'll check before I do it.
#2 eldritch_lord Jun 13, 2008 13:33:23	Since antimagic fields, disjunction, etc. aren't in 4e (yet), the fact that better armors are always magical is purely flavor text. You're also expected to have certain pluses from magic weapons and armor, but since the bonuses won't go away in certain circumstances, you can make the bonuses from weapons and armor be from craftsmanship just as easily as from magic. Basically, it's assumed that you'll have magic items at those junctures because D&D has always been like that--as you level up, you get more magic items. If you want to say that the bonuses are from craftsmanship instead of magic, you can do that, with no price change or mechanical changes required.
#3 sutasafaia Jun 13, 2008 13:52:40	What I mean is, Plate gives a bonus of +8 AC. Godplate gives +14 AC. What if players just want a suit of Godplate that doesn't have any magical properties at all? I see no real reason not to let them aquire a suit assuming they find the proper craftsman. As far as getting +1, +2 etc, that would have to come at the normal cost in the DMG. I was trying to basically make non-magical versions of the higher-end armors for cheaper than getting magical versions, without making the cost so low that everybody is running around in super armor, but not as high as getting +1 or other versions with usable spells attached to them. If they want to spend the 45,000 for +4 Warplate armor more power to them. But would there be any harm in letting them get just basic Warplate for 4,500?
#4 eldritch_lord Jun 13, 2008 17:10:00	What I mean is, Plate gives a bonus of +8 AC. Godplate gives +14 AC. What if players just want a suit of Godplate that doesn't have any magical properties at all? I see no real reason not to let them aquire a suit assuming they find the proper craftsman. As far as getting +1, +2 etc, that would have to come at the normal cost in the DMG. I was trying to basically make non-magical versions of the higher-end armors for cheaper than getting magical versions, without making the cost so low that everybody is running around in super armor, but not as high as getting +1 or other versions with usable spells attached to them. If they want to spend the 45,000 for +4 Warplate armor more power to them. But would there be any harm in letting them get just basic Warplate for 4,500? Well, here's the thing. You have basic plate that gives +8 AC for 50 gp. Then you have Warplate that gives +11 and +4 worth of enhancements for the cost of +4 magic armor--the armor description says "See individual magic items for their base market price and appropriate levels. The cost of masterwork armor is included in the cost of magic armor of 16th level or higher." What that means is that at the level you'd first be able to get Warplate (16th) you can enchant regular plate with the magic +3 enchantment for a cost of 9,000 gp for the enchantment plus 50 gp for the armor. That gets you the same basic value of Warplate--+11 AC total. So if you decrease the cost of Warplate to your example value of 4,500 gp, that means that your nonmagical Warplate is as effective as your enchanted regular plate but at half the cost. If you do that, you're effectively cutting the costs of magical armor in half, which would most likely drastically alter the assumed treasure balance of the game and cause problems. On top of that, the PCs would no longer be getting the extra assumed bonuses they're supposed to, which further unbalances the combat side of things. They'd have much more disposable loot but lower combat statistics, and as you have more limited combat-stat-enhancing items in 4e than in 3e, that only worsens the problems. The point of the Warplate and Godplate are to provide armor increases at the right pace for the game to handle, and by changing the prices or effects of these armors you cause more problems than you solve. I'd say just stick with the armors as given.
#5 sutasafaia Jun 14, 2008 15:25:54	I honestly never thought about that. Would still be nice if there were a few more options, but I guess that's what splat books are for. So far I'm liking the 4.0 system enough to wait for them at any rate. Thanks for the help :3
#6 eldritch_lord Jun 14, 2008 16:18:43	I honestly never thought about that. Would still be nice if there were a few more options, but I guess that's what splat books are for. So far I'm liking the 4.0 system enough to wait for them at any rate. Thanks for the help :3 Not a problem. Supposedly the Tome of Treasures (or Adventurer's Vault or whatever they're calling it now) is going to have many more options for non-magical weapons and armor, so you might get what you want there.
#7 sutasafaia Jun 14, 2008 18:43:50	Nice ^^ And yes, it's called the Tome of Treasures. It's on their list of future updates. I actually have a list of 2008's 4.0 books that I plan on picking up. I generally buy every splat book I can get my hands on whether it's Forgotten Realms, Ebberon, or D&D core (hey, the more classes/powers/stuff I can shove into my adventure the better I say).
#8 AvaronGansdell Jun 14, 2008 21:51:01	Also those special types of armor might be the only type that can hold the power of high end enchantments. now sure the elves could make there special difficult to create and expensive armor and not enchant it but it could be seen as a great waste of the materials. its similar to how high quality iron was normaly reserved for use in weapons rather than wasted on cooking implements and toys.