Action Point and Hit Points House Rules - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Action Point and Hit Points House Rules

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Iorwerth
Jul 02, 2009 6:14:49 I am new to 4E but have been reading the threads a little. I was wondering if people could give me some feedback on two possible house rules. I may not put them in but wanted to get some feedback as they may have dire consequences that I am not aware of.

Here are my two proposed house rules:

Action Points
Rule: You can use more than 1 action point an encounter.
Reason: To make milestones more attractive in order to discourage extended rests.

Hit Points
Rule: Everybodys hit points are halved, both characters and monsters. Healing surges worked out from adjusted hit points.
Reason: To diminish the amount of attrition in combat, thus making combats faster. Also, my players are quite jaded after years of playing RPG's and nothing gets their blood flowing quicker now than being near death!

As I said, there may be knock-on effects that are terrible that I haven't seen. One thing I do realize is that halving hitpoints will make healing powers not based on healing surgae more powerful. I am not sure how unbalancing that would be.

Any feedback much appreciated.
#2
pluisjen
Jul 02, 2009 6:46:16 On the first one, expect boss battles to be over in 1 round. If you can use multiple action points, then they'll blow him away completely with every action point they saved up.

With the reduced hitpoints... well, my Cleric generally goes down in 2 or 3 hits, do the math. Any lucky blow will knock out a non-fighter, probably.

You'll get 15 + con hitpoints, halved, so at first level with a 15 con you'll have 15 HP, monsters at that level can deal 1d10+4 damage; anyone with a lower con score or a squishy class is out with a crit or lucky damage roll.

Also, it's going to unbalance healing; you are effectively doubling non-surge based healing (like the +1d6 + wis clerics get) which means a Healing Word will bump you from 0 to max on a lucky roll.

Also, if you're new to the game, try playing it for a while before changing it. It works out quite nicely the way it is, I think.
#3
humanmind
Jul 02, 2009 6:48:55 I like the Action Point house rule. But I would at least limit it to once a round. Having 5 players "store" their AP and release a barrage in the first round of combat against a dragon will cost you dearly.

As for the HP rule, I don't think Half health would be that much of an advantage. As said, healing powers would be unbalanced but monster powers (ongoing damage!) would be also. I would leave that as is.

Hope this helps
#4
Iorwerth
Jul 02, 2009 7:09:34 These are just the kinds of replies I was looking for. Thank you!
#5
magus_stragus
Jul 02, 2009 7:25:00 If you want to speed up combat, halve enemies' hit points, but increase their damage to 1.5x. That should work.
#6
pyromancer2k
Jul 03, 2009 13:49:32 On the AP thing as already suggested limit it to 1 per round so you don't have players burning like 3-4 dailies in a single turn.

If you want to speed up combat, halve enemies' hit points, but increase their damage to 1.5x. That should work.

This causes a whole host of problems which have already been discussed in other threads. The increase in damage doesn't make up for the loss in HP.

As for the HP thing in general the idea of reducing both sides by an equal amount is potentially sounds good but as Pluisjen pointed out reducing it by half and you can become to vulnerable to luck blows taking out a character.

4e is actually very balanced and fast paced at lower levels but it slows down at later levels as HP gains out pace damage increase. So the better solution even though it means a little more math is reduce the number of HP gained by 1/2 at each level.

This way the players all have the same HP as they normally did at level 1 but only gain half as much along the way. This also ends up making feats like toughness more attractive. For the classes with 5 HP gain it's 2.5 so basically one level they gain 2 next 3 then 2 again.

And 2-3 HP per level isn't much as by level 10 you don't even have twice what you had at level 1 ;). But with flat 1/2 you suffer greatly at earlier levels and by level 10 you have over double what you had at level 1. It kinda returns you to that old 3.x setup I didn't really like where the first couple levels a lucky roll and your character goes down on 1-2 hits.

As for downgrading monsters it is actually pretty simple. Level * 1/2 HP for that level role. So a level 10 that got 8 per level reduce it's HP by 40. This I think will be the effect your looking for without as many issues as lower levels of easy TPK from a few lucky monster rolls.

EDIT: Because honestly at level 1 monsters can already take you down on 3-4 hits. It's not until a few levels later that this starts to increase. Heck I remember my first time the party was happy to reach level 3 cause we had outpaced the monsters damage enough it would on average take them another hit. But reduce the HP gain and it stays in that 3-4 hit range a bit longer and same with the other levels.

Because the average damage for level 1 monster is 1d10+3 (8.5 avg). The average player starts with 24-30 HP depending on class and CON. As you can see 3-4 hits and they are down. If a fighter has any hope of "tanking" he can't drop down to 15 HP and go down after only 2 hit. But if you look at the average HP gain as 5 then by level 3 that's an increase of 10 HP but the monster damage only increase to about 1d10+4 (9.5 avg). So 1 more damage per hit yet they got a full hit's worth of HP. But if you cut that HP gain in 1/2 to only 5 with the monster doing an extra 1 damage per attack suddenly the net gain is 1-2 more HP buffer since 3-4 hits means an extra 3-4 damage on that 5 HP.

I got the NPC damage figures from the DMG Damage by level chart using Medium Normal. But even then most of the others only increase by +1 damage as well.
#7
Stuntman
Jul 03, 2009 15:36:35
Action Points
Rule: You can use more than 1 action point an encounter.
Reason: To make milestones more attractive in order to discourage extended rests.

Multiple action points in an encounter could make for some very quick encounters. If you go nova in the first round and use multiple AP, it could quickly end the battle if you are able to take down one really tough enemy in the first round of combat. If this happens, then you won't need to adjust hit points to speed up battle.

I'm not sure if that is enough to discourage extended rests. I would say that if you want to encourage players to try to reach more milestones in a day, perhaps giving them a 10% bonus on XP for every milestone they reach that day before an extended rest.

Hit Points
Rule: Everybodys hit points are halved, both characters and monsters. Healing surges worked out from adjusted hit points.
Reason: To diminish the amount of attrition in combat, thus making combats faster. Also, my players are quite jaded after years of playing RPG's and nothing gets their blood flowing quicker now than being near death!

As I said, there may be knock-on effects that are terrible that I haven't seen. One thing I do realize is that halving hitpoints will make healing powers not based on healing surgae more powerful. I am not sure how unbalancing that would be.

I think that this would help players more and end up encouraging more strikers than leaders and defenders. By halving enemy HP, strikers can take down enemies more quickly in the first round of combat.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Iorwerth Jul 02, 2009 6:14:49	I am new to 4E but have been reading the threads a little. I was wondering if people could give me some feedback on two possible house rules. I may not put them in but wanted to get some feedback as they may have dire consequences that I am not aware of. Here are my two proposed house rules: Action Points Rule: You can use more than 1 action point an encounter. Reason: To make milestones more attractive in order to discourage extended rests. Hit Points Rule: Everybodys hit points are halved, both characters and monsters. Healing surges worked out from adjusted hit points. Reason: To diminish the amount of attrition in combat, thus making combats faster. Also, my players are quite jaded after years of playing RPG's and nothing gets their blood flowing quicker now than being near death! As I said, there may be knock-on effects that are terrible that I haven't seen. One thing I do realize is that halving hitpoints will make healing powers not based on healing surgae more powerful. I am not sure how unbalancing that would be. Any feedback much appreciated.
#2 pluisjen Jul 02, 2009 6:46:16	On the first one, expect boss battles to be over in 1 round. If you can use multiple action points, then they'll blow him away completely with every action point they saved up. With the reduced hitpoints... well, my Cleric generally goes down in 2 or 3 hits, do the math. Any lucky blow will knock out a non-fighter, probably. You'll get 15 + con hitpoints, halved, so at first level with a 15 con you'll have 15 HP, monsters at that level can deal 1d10+4 damage; anyone with a lower con score or a squishy class is out with a crit or lucky damage roll. Also, it's going to unbalance healing; you are effectively doubling non-surge based healing (like the +1d6 + wis clerics get) which means a Healing Word will bump you from 0 to max on a lucky roll. Also, if you're new to the game, try playing it for a while before changing it. It works out quite nicely the way it is, I think.
#3 humanmind Jul 02, 2009 6:48:55	I like the Action Point house rule. But I would at least limit it to once a round. Having 5 players "store" their AP and release a barrage in the first round of combat against a dragon will cost you dearly. As for the HP rule, I don't think Half health would be that much of an advantage. As said, healing powers would be unbalanced but monster powers (ongoing damage!) would be also. I would leave that as is. Hope this helps
#4 Iorwerth Jul 02, 2009 7:09:34	These are just the kinds of replies I was looking for. Thank you!
#5 magus_stragus Jul 02, 2009 7:25:00	If you want to speed up combat, halve enemies' hit points, but increase their damage to 1.5x. That should work.
#6 pyromancer2k Jul 03, 2009 13:49:32	On the AP thing as already suggested limit it to 1 per round so you don't have players burning like 3-4 dailies in a single turn. If you want to speed up combat, halve enemies' hit points, but increase their damage to 1.5x. That should work. This causes a whole host of problems which have already been discussed in other threads. The increase in damage doesn't make up for the loss in HP. As for the HP thing in general the idea of reducing both sides by an equal amount is potentially sounds good but as Pluisjen pointed out reducing it by half and you can become to vulnerable to luck blows taking out a character. 4e is actually very balanced and fast paced at lower levels but it slows down at later levels as HP gains out pace damage increase. So the better solution even though it means a little more math is reduce the number of HP gained by 1/2 at each level. This way the players all have the same HP as they normally did at level 1 but only gain half as much along the way. This also ends up making feats like toughness more attractive. For the classes with 5 HP gain it's 2.5 so basically one level they gain 2 next 3 then 2 again. And 2-3 HP per level isn't much as by level 10 you don't even have twice what you had at level 1 ;). But with flat 1/2 you suffer greatly at earlier levels and by level 10 you have over double what you had at level 1. It kinda returns you to that old 3.x setup I didn't really like where the first couple levels a lucky roll and your character goes down on 1-2 hits. As for downgrading monsters it is actually pretty simple. Level * 1/2 HP for that level role. So a level 10 that got 8 per level reduce it's HP by 40. This I think will be the effect your looking for without as many issues as lower levels of easy TPK from a few lucky monster rolls. EDIT: Because honestly at level 1 monsters can already take you down on 3-4 hits. It's not until a few levels later that this starts to increase. Heck I remember my first time the party was happy to reach level 3 cause we had outpaced the monsters damage enough it would on average take them another hit. But reduce the HP gain and it stays in that 3-4 hit range a bit longer and same with the other levels. Because the average damage for level 1 monster is 1d10+3 (8.5 avg). The average player starts with 24-30 HP depending on class and CON. As you can see 3-4 hits and they are down. If a fighter has any hope of "tanking" he can't drop down to 15 HP and go down after only 2 hit. But if you look at the average HP gain as 5 then by level 3 that's an increase of 10 HP but the monster damage only increase to about 1d10+4 (9.5 avg). So 1 more damage per hit yet they got a full hit's worth of HP. But if you cut that HP gain in 1/2 to only 5 with the monster doing an extra 1 damage per attack suddenly the net gain is 1-2 more HP buffer since 3-4 hits means an extra 3-4 damage on that 5 HP. I got the NPC damage figures from the DMG Damage by level chart using Medium Normal. But even then most of the others only increase by +1 damage as well.
#7 Stuntman Jul 03, 2009 15:36:35	Action Points Rule: You can use more than 1 action point an encounter. Reason: To make milestones more attractive in order to discourage extended rests. Multiple action points in an encounter could make for some very quick encounters. If you go nova in the first round and use multiple AP, it could quickly end the battle if you are able to take down one really tough enemy in the first round of combat. If this happens, then you won't need to adjust hit points to speed up battle. I'm not sure if that is enough to discourage extended rests. I would say that if you want to encourage players to try to reach more milestones in a day, perhaps giving them a 10% bonus on XP for every milestone they reach that day before an extended rest. Hit Points Rule: Everybodys hit points are halved, both characters and monsters. Healing surges worked out from adjusted hit points. Reason: To diminish the amount of attrition in combat, thus making combats faster. Also, my players are quite jaded after years of playing RPG's and nothing gets their blood flowing quicker now than being near death! As I said, there may be knock-on effects that are terrible that I haven't seen. One thing I do realize is that halving hitpoints will make healing powers not based on healing surgae more powerful. I am not sure how unbalancing that would be. I think that this would help players more and end up encouraging more strikers than leaders and defenders. By halving enemy HP, strikers can take down enemies more quickly in the first round of combat.