Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 descrii Apr 30, 2009 23:14:36	Here's a pantheon I'm working on for my points of light setting. I've been cleaving pretty close to the standard PoL idea so far, which I see as close to what was left of Rome after it fell and fractured into many regional states and city-states. I even have the "uncivilized" humanoids being pushed out of their traditional lands in the North and East by an even more fearsome foe. I'm not sure yet who will play the mongols in my little drama... maybe the undead. Anyway, back on topic. Here are some gods I think are fairly evocative. I wanted gods that felt like they belong together - the default D&D gods don't feel like a pantheon to me. So I named most of them after ancient Persian kings and then made similar-sounding names for the rest. I should make little stories about how they interact, but I'll likely run out of steam first (unless someone else wants to adopt the pantheon?) This is meant to be a very open list. Sort of the best-known gods of the fallen Empire. There are dozens more regional gods known and worshipped in different areas, much like in the real Ancient world. I still need symbols for these gods, too... Anyway, I'll be deeply grateful for some comments, questions, critique, etc. on these gods. That kind of thing keeps the idea living and growing for me - I don't work well totally alone. Without further ado... The Pantheon GODS OF THE TEMPLE Gir-Namne, god-king of the Nerathi Empire. As far as anyone knows, he still rules the empire from the Tortoise Throne in the capital city, Antonina. Associated with humans. Portfolio: Justice, honor, nobility, protection, civilization, laws, war, conquest. Subsumes: Bahamut, Bane (with Ukku-Takesh), Erathis (with Bhaga-Nhagi). Untash-Naprisha, six-armed queen of the underworld. Served by the discarded, her disciples. Takes consorts among the dead. Wraith-riders scour the ethereal for her subjects and drag them down to the underworld where their old selves are washed away until they are ready for a new life. Associated scavengers and the dead of all sorts. Portfolio: Death, fate, autumn. Subsumes: The Raven Queen (with Attakhushu) Khumma-Menanu, the hunter. A dangerous god who stalks man and beast alike in the wilderness. In ancient times he taught secrets to the druids. Associated with druids, elves, fey races. Portfolio: Wilderness, hunting, beasts. Subsumes: Melora (with Khelu and Khita). Bhaga-Nhagi, Earth-tamer, Phoenix. A mysterious, beloved god who chooses to live as a mortal teacher. Every century Bhaga-Nhagi immolates him or herself and is born to a mortal mother somewhere in the Empire (or beyond it), sometimes male and sometimes female. Over the course of the next century he makes his way to the Temple of the Phoenix in the heart of an active volcano. She spends her last years imparting the wisdom of her latest lifetime to the monks who wait there for her, and then immolates herself once more. Brought fire, metallurgy, writing, and agriculture to the world, among other things. Associated with deva, dwarves, farmers, the poor. Portfolio: Agriculture, fire, metalworking, invention, creation, artisans. Subsumes: Erathis (with Gir-Namne), Pelor (with Khelu, Attakhushu), Moradin. Attakhushu, the oracle, the hermit. The wisest of the gods. Lives on a distant, inaccessible mountain peak. Will teach secrets to the very persistent. Associated with eladrin. Portfolio: Knowledge, prophecy, skill, time, winter. Subsumes: Ioun, Pelor (with Khelu), The Raven Queen (with Untash-Naprisha) Khelu, sea god, lover of Khita. Reckless, energetic, never still. Dwells in the ocean. Associated with the sea-races. Portfolio: The sea, the sun, summer, storms. Subsumes: Melora (with Khita and Khumma-Menanu), Kord (with Kindattu), Pelor (with Attakhushu). Khita, sea goddess, lover of Khelu. Cool, smooth, gentle. Dwells in the ocean. Associated with the sea-races. Portfolio: The sea, the moon, love, spring. Subsumes: Melora (with Khelu and Khumma-Menanu), Sehanine (with Napil-Kush), Corellon. Ige-Halki, the boongiver. Wanders the known world making weird and often grisly bargains. Knows when his name is spoken aloud. Associated with the reptilian races. Portfolio: Darkness, poison, serpents, lies, change, luck, trade, travel. Subsumes: Zehir, Lolth, Avandra. Napil-Kush, the man-rider, the fleshless. A disembodied god-spirit who possesses men and beasts to commit all sorts of mischief. Greatest of a host of goblin loa spirits. An epicurean lover of transient pleasures. Associated with the goblinoids. Portfolio: Wealth, greed, vengeance, curses, lust, trickery. Subsumes: Tiamat, Sehanine (with Khita). Kindattu, the barbarian-god, the hordemaster. A brilliant warmaster or a raging monster, depending on who describes him. When the Empire was strong, Kindattu was portrayed as leading vast tribes of barbaric humans, orcs, gnolls, hobgoblins, and other fierce humanoids in the Northern Steppes with his many sons and daughters beside him. Now people speak of him leading armies on raids in the wilderness between points of light. He is considered the single greatest threat to the Empire, the Devil to Gir-Namne’s God. Associated with the “uncivilized” humanoids. Portfolio: Turmoil, destruction, strength, battle. Subsumes: Gruumsh, Kord (with Khelu)
#2 leowulf May 01, 2009 14:22:39	I like it. For some reason, it brings to mind the pantheon of Empire of the Petal Throne, which game was known for very in-depth world-building. Maybe this indicates the depth you will be putting into your campaign. I also like the difference between the gods of the Temple and those of the Cults. In a campaign that I'm creating, I have different faith paths that heroes and the common folk follow in addition to paths that the villains and savage monsters do. I have a "standard" pantheon including most of the D&D core deities, but also a quasi-Christendom that worships Bahumet and reveres a host of saint-like metallic dragons, and I have an Old Faith that draws from Primal animism. This provides a _lot_ of variety for player concepts and helps world-building immensely.
#3 descrii May 02, 2009 4:15:52	I'd love to see some of your notes on your Old Faith. Would you post them here? I want to do something similar to correspond with the "primal" power source. I know old faiths in Ancient Greece would talk to snakes... something like that might provide a starting place... The goblins have a voodoo-based religion, inviting spirits to possess them. Napil-Kush is meant to be a goblin loa, not a proper god, but he's been adopted into the pantheon in recent decades following heavy contact with goblins. He's propitiated to curse enemies, or to release people from curses. I imagine ancestor worship for some races, like the dwarves.
#4 yellowdingo May 02, 2009 6:11:29	Interesting Idea...Historically there were various categories of Gods: Patrons of Cities (Beel, Baal, Bel, - Each of these names means "Lord of..."; Beelzebub meaning Lord of Zebub). Gods of assorted fields(Dagon -God of Agriculture; alias: Dagan; Marduk - God of Men, Eris -Goddess of Discord)
#5 leowulf May 02, 2009 19:11:28	Interesting Idea...Historically there were various categories of Gods: Patrons of Cities (Beel, Baal, Bel, - Each of these names means "Lord of..."; Beelzebub meaning Lord of Zebub). Gods of assorted fields(Dagon -God of Agriculture; alias: Dagan; Marduk - God of Men, Eris -Goddess of Discord) This idea reminds me of a line in Ghostbusters: "Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Traveler, Gozer the Destructor!" I'd love to have the party meet one of these City Lords with his or her own profile of specialties. Hmm ... you just gave me an idea. In my campaign, "Bael Turath" is a Dwarven word that means "Lord of Heritage" (because Dwarven is Hebrew in my campaign and Arabic is close enough in this case). What if Bael Turath was the God-King of the Tieflings? I like that a lot. I'm going to use it!
#6 leowulf May 02, 2009 20:00:06	I'd love to see some of your notes on your Old Faith. Would you post them here? I want to do something similar to correspond with the "primal" power source. I know old faiths in Ancient Greece would talk to snakes... something like that might provide a starting place... The goblins have a voodoo-based religion, inviting spirits to possess them. Napil-Kush is meant to be a goblin loa, not a proper god, but he's been adopted into the pantheon in recent decades following heavy contact with goblins. He's propitiated to curse enemies, or to release people from curses. I imagine ancestor worship for some races, like the dwarves. Hmmm ... Ancestor Worship ... I like the idea of it - I've been wanting to do something for the Dwarves of my setting to set them apart from the pantheon without depriving the Humans of Moradin (who god of artisans is the perfect balancer for Corellon, god of artists). Okay, so the Old Faith. This was a solution to a problem I had with the Shifters. Before PHB2, I wanted them to be the basis for what I'm calling the Middle World (Shifters and Dwarves natives). I wanted them to be cared for by Sehinine, but they are not shifty shifters like her profile would imply - just that she's the resident moon goddess. But they just didn't fit each other as well as I wanted. So when PHB2 came out and I saw druids and the multiclass feat Iniate of the Old Faith, I saw what happened with them. The Shifters were here when the Humans arrived with their Pantheon. They followed the Old Faith which drew from the Primal source, and they are animists. They are - like the author at times - panenthiests, in that they believe that the presence of the divine is _in_ everything, although everything is not divine in itself. So they revere the sky, the land, the animals - even the ones they eat. Their reverence for all things is a reflection of their worship of the Earth Mother and Sky Father. They believe that the Sky fashioned the Earth - like one might make a snowball or a ball of mud or something, but on a divine scale - and that the Earth - the Middle World Specifically - birthed the Shifters and the Dwarves. The Shifters for the outside of the Earth Mother, and the Dwarves for her Inside. The Shifters drink from her veins, the rivers, the Dwarves mine from her veins of precious metals inside of her. This is nice - it sets the Shifters apart, although it still doesn't work out Lycanthropy which I still want to be related both to Shifters and to the Moon, but this is a work in progress. And it doesn't "fit" the Dwarves as well as I want. I want them to be a race apart from Humans in their beliefs, but I see them not as roughly primal like the Shifters, but more Scholarly like the RL Jews. Especially with their long Dwarf beards. ;) The Primal power source doesn't feel as ... Scholarly and Technological as I want the Dwarves to be. This is woolgathering, but perhaps their perspective is different, and was made more by their contact with Humanity when Humans arrived with their Gods. The Dwarves - unlike the Shifters - assimilated the Humans' ways, including their use of the Divine power source. They _still follow their faith_ but in a different way from the Shaman or Druid. Taking this further, perhaps there is a true disconnect between Dwarves and Humans in that the Dwarves worship Elohim, a Dwarven term which Humans would mistranslate as "The Gods", but the Dwarves mean "The Divine", understanding the dual nature of the Divine to be the Divine that works in the Sky and that working in the Earth. I'm not sure if I will work it like this or not. The Shifter part is exactly where I want it. The Primal source being key to it, and their theological perspective being more Native American Animism than Celtic Druidism. But I haven't figured out the Dwarves yet. Like their real-world counterparts, the Dwarves of my setting are not easy for non-Dwarves to figure out, nor are they intended to be.
#7 descrii May 05, 2009 3:27:31	Dingo, that's just what I'm after for the "small gods" of the setting. City gods, tribal gods. Gods worshipped in small areas by limited numbers of people, but real nonetheless and able to teach rituals and prayers through their prophets which are then passed along through priestly tradition. Do you happen to have a link to a resource online where I could steal descriptions of some ancient local gods? Leowulf, I like the animism religion in your setting. As for your scholarly dwarves, what if the revelation that the divine is in everything means something different to them than it does to the shifters? Instead of revering these spirits, the dwarves look at them as a raw material to be shaped and manipulated through rituals and magic. Dwarf "religious" scholarship could focus on binding these spirits into things and people and using them for power. There might be certain proscriptions that these binders need to observe to keep themselves spiritually clean as a suitable vessel for the spirits that give them power, akin to Jewish kosher proscriptions. In the same way, the binders would issue guidelines for preparing items, food, etc. They don't really revere the spirits - the steps they take are purely practical to facilitate the binding and keep the spirit from warping or slipping free.
#8 yellowdingo May 05, 2009 4:48:16	Dingo, that's just what I'm after for the "small gods" of the setting. City gods, tribal gods. Gods worshipped in small areas by limited numbers of people, but real nonetheless and able to teach rituals and prayers through their prophets which are then passed along through priestly tradition. Do you happen to have a link to a resource online where I could steal descriptions of some ancient local gods? http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/gods/home.html http://www.crystalinks.com/chinamythology.html http://southerncrossreview.org/24/shapero.htm http://www.crystalinks.com/sumergods.html http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/godsmyth/a/Dagon.htm
#9 leowulf May 06, 2009 0:25:12	Leowulf, I like the animism religion in your setting. As for your scholarly dwarves, what if the revelation that the divine is in everything means something different to them than it does to the shifters? Instead of revering these spirits, the dwarves look at them as a raw material to be shaped and manipulated through rituals and magic. Dwarf "religious" scholarship could focus on binding these spirits into things and people and using them for power. There might be certain proscriptions that these binders need to observe to keep themselves spiritually clean as a suitable vessel for the spirits that give them power, akin to Jewish kosher proscriptions. In the same way, the binders would issue guidelines for preparing items, food, etc. They don't really revere the spirits - the steps they take are purely practical to facilitate the binding and keep the spirit from warping or slipping free. I like this a lot. It sounds good on a couple of levels. First, the idea of taboos and rituals with an analytical, almost scientific basis would set the Dwarves apart without making them overly religious - even in their religion. A Dwarf would make a good Archivist. It also makes good for good world-building. For example, maybe the Dwarves have discovered the germ theory of disease ("Ancient Dwarven texts speak of hosts of small, invisible beings that try to get into people and animals, kill them and feed off of them. We Dwarves wash our hands to keep this from happening to us"). The other cool aspect of this is the Kabbalistic flavour it brings to the setting. Perhaps there are Ancient Dwarven Texts [tm] that provide information useful to characters (like a Binder type of Warlock) or useful to a campaign arc or adventure path, like something out of Raiders of the Lost Ark.
#10 descrii May 06, 2009 3:32:17	Okay, let me spin out a local god, stolen from Babylon, for the Nentir Vale in my game, then maybe I'll try to get on the goblin voodoo religion a bit. I'm enjoying this conversation with you two, btw. Enkidu - wall of text warning Enkidu, the tamed one, flock-watcher. A guardian god and god of animal husbandry. Images of Enkidu show him as a hulking humanoid with tusks and clawed hands and feet, often holding a staff in one hand and a bundle of arrows in the other. He is often pictured together with lambs. When human pioneers first settled the Vale, long before the Nerathi empire, Enkidu was a savage wilderness god. He roamed the forested hillsides, attended by a court of fierce animals, and preyed on the settlers' livestock. Worse, he swiftly killed men who dared hunt the fierce wolves, griffons, and manticores that made their livelihood impossible. The settlers' leader consulted with a seer, and the seer instructed him to put a lovely woman before Enkidu and she would tame him. The only woman who was not afraid was a wily prostitute, Saama. She went to Enkidu and tamed him, and he came into the villages. From that time forward the beasts no longer trusted him and he turned against them, hunting them and driving them from the vale. There are several stories about the exploits of Enkidu in the Vale, and they grow and evolve all the time. Mothers would bring newborn sons to him and if he touched the baby with his right hand the boy would be popular and loved, with the left hand, the boy would be rich and lonely, and with his tongue, the boy would be fierce and brave. He killed the dragons whose bones are in the burial grounds, carved out the river bed, etc. Saama grew old and died, and he had other wives who had traits common in the vale - a long fine nose, a weak chin and ginger hair... whatever traits the stories' listeners have, so have the wives of Enkidu. There are also stories of how Enkidu is tricked by clever people into doing their hard work for them. Eventually Enkidu attracted the attention of Khumma-Menanu, the hunter, who saw him as worthy quarry. They hunted each other for days in the hills around the vale and engaged in a titanic struggle (somewhere...) but in the end Enkidu was overcome. He blamed the settlers and his civilized life for making him weak, so as he lay beaten before Khumma-Menanu he cursed the settlers and cursed Saama for bringing him in from the forest. Then Khumma-Menanu struck him so hard that he flew apart into a thousand pieces, and the pieces became birds and flew away. They still watch the vale, as fierce Enkidu did, but they also devour the crops to spite the settlers that once tamed them. People in the Nentir Vale invoke Enkidu because they feel a close connection to him. The places in Enkidu stories are places they know, and there's always a chance they have some Enkidu blood in them somewhere. They pray to him to protect their families and livestock, to keep away dangerous beasts, to inspire their sons, and to relieve the hardship of their toils. When beasts prey on their flocks, family members fall ill or go missing, or birds devour their crops they propitiate him with offerings of alcohol and meat. Portfolio: beasts, protection, animal husbandry, the Nentir Vale.
#11 descrii May 08, 2009 6:22:13	Voodoo, or any of the other spellings people use to avoid the negative connotations applied to Voodoo by literature, movies, etc. is a real religion. What I'm describing here is a fantastic variant that has more to do with the aforementioned movies and books than it does with the real religion. The Basic Idea Goblins have the same relationship to the Feywild that Eladrin do, and therefore have the fey modifier. They do not worship gods, but rather powerful spirits of the Feywild. These spirits, called Loa, have no bodies. Through their arts, the goblins lend the weaker spirits bodies - the corpses of dead creatures or bodies constructed from the elements. These spirits are weak enough that the goblin hexers can command them. The more powerful spirits cannot be contained in such rough vessels, and so the goblin hexers invite the spirits into their own living bodies for a short time. These powerful Loa are beyond control and so the goblins ply them with gifts and praise and cajole them to give aid or advice. Goblin hexers from the monster manual are okay as written, and to make them elite I can add shaman powers to them from PHBII. Their spirit companions are lesser spirits animating corpses, dolls, skins, etc. Voodoo Rituals Rituals are where voodoo could really shine. I’d divide them very broadly into curses, fetishes, and possessions. Curses are a lot like ordinary rituals, but can cause inconvenience or harm to distant enemies. The amount of harm should depend on the result of the ritual skill check (religion? nature?) and DCs should be quite high for more than discomfort or inconvenience. Curses demand either a likeness of the target (which can be very crude) or some element from them. Maybe a likeness would give no benefit to the check, an object that belongs to the target gives +5, and a part of the target (hair, nail clippings, severed body part, etc) would give +10. Fetish rituals create fetishes, objects that can be carried for a benefit. A fetish might protect against certain types of harm, keep the bearer hidden, give luck benefits, etc. They’re basically magic items, and take up magic item slots, but they conform to voodoo flavor and maybe they’re tailored to a certain user? I’m not sure yet if there’s any reason to separate fetish creation from other magic item creation. Possession rituals invite spirits to inhabit something, usually the hexer himself. The spirit is a “rider” who “mounts” one of the participants in the ritual. These include rituals of zombie creation. Even the most powerful Loa can’t mount an unwilling being in the mortal realm and must be lured and assisted through the veil between worlds by a ritual to inhabit the hexer. Loa possession can be pretty heinous. The most powerful Loa, like Napil-Kush, are like gods when they are mounted. Loa are always called specifically, by name, and must be lured by their favorite things - particular kinds of foods, drinks, tobacco, sacrifices, etc. Goblins mounted by Loa will exhibit personality and even physical traits associated with the individual Loa possessing him. Hexers can make religion checks to identify the Loa possessing a mount on sight. A mounted goblin would use the stats of the Loa, including hit points, allowing the goblin to shrug off terrific wounds that would kill or cripple it if it were unmounted. Here’s a short brainstorm list on the sorts of things voodoo rituals might be able to do: Voodoo Ritual Traits influence emotions (love, hate, lust, fear) influence luck (good or bad) inflict or cure disease see faraway events see backward or forward in time manipulate pregnancy influence dreams cause pain manipulate animals manipulate the dead cause and guide gossip learn what is hidden
#12 dmrannn May 10, 2009 16:49:03	I must have voodoo or curse related rituals. Now. You've brought them to my mind, and now I shall never be satisfied until they are in my hands. Bwahahahaaa.... No, seriously. WotC read. And in the meantime, I'll take up residence on this thread to read the juicy details. I've all ready begun my own brainstorming. I think the hardest thing will be coming up with levels and prices for these, because of the intense potential for abuse.
#13 descrii May 11, 2009 19:23:16	Cool! Since they're homebrew rituals, I decided to start a new thread over here.
#14 Mechalibur May 11, 2009 19:42:48	I like your pantheon. Looks like you put a lot of thought into it. Only problem I see is that most of the names are long and hyphonated. (Which is a subjective problem, of course). The only reason I dislike that is because I usually have trouble remembering long names. One reason I generally like the 4e pantheon better is because of the shorter names. But that's easily changeable, so it's really not a problem (If I want to use them)
#15 turtlshellz May 12, 2009 5:08:55	but I see them not as roughly primal like the Shifters, but more Scholarly like the RL Jews. Especially with their long Dwarf beards. A little off topic here but J. R. R. Tolkien actually based his Dwarves of Middle Earth off of Jews. Interesting, but like I said, off topic. Anyway Descrii I really like the attention you have shown to the deities in your campaign it obviously means your players are in fr a treat. whenever a DM takes that much care with his world... well, that really makes a campaign shine. Kudos. In a campaign world that I am slowly (and I mean slowly) developing one of the major religions will be based on Zoroastrianism with many other 'native' and 'cult' like religions scattered about. Anyway congrats again. Good luck with the campaign and have fun with it.
#16 descrii May 12, 2009 5:14:15	Thanks! Care to throw info on your fire-worshippers up here? I'd love to see it.