Advice For 3 Player Campaign - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Advice For 3 Player Campaign

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Tharag_Bocc
Feb 10, 2009 17:38:30 I might end up DMing a 4E mini-campaign near the end of April or beginning of May which will probably only include 3 players (2 rogues and a wizard). The campaign will likely run from levels 6 to 12. It's actual more of sidestory, about the adventures of a character that left my old 3.5 Eberron (in the company of two NPCs) and may be rejoining my upcoming 4E continuation of that campaign this summer.

One of the key plot elements is that at the start of the campaign one of the PCs (one of the former NPCs) is under a curse and adventures are likely to build towards the goal of removing that curse. I expect there to be lots of looking for clues and sneaking around highlighted with the occasional combat.

Anyway, I'm looking for advice on how to designing encounters and skill challenges that will be both fun and appropriate given group size and composition. While I'm not looking for help in laying out plot elements, it would be helpful if the advice also kept the tone and course of this mini-campaign in mind.

Thanks in advance to anyone who provides me with useful advice.
#2
pboyer
Feb 10, 2009 18:59:00 A 3 player campaign is not drastically different from a 4 or 5 player campaign. I have the following advice for you.

Be conscientious about the party composition. The team has no tank and no healer; expect the players to take damage quickly and have limited healing. That means shorter combat encounters than normal. Consider the template of 1-2 baddies + minions.

Design your combat encounters using the "XP budgets" technique. Refer to "Target Encounter XP Totals" on p.57 of the DMG.

Based on your group composition, I encourage liberal use of non-combat encounters and skill challenges.

When designing dungeons, have more traps and puzzles; that approach seems well suited to two rogues and a wizard. Use less combat encounters. (But still use some combat, because it is fun)

After the first session, design MORE of what your players LIKED. But always maintain a balance: <"blah blah" about too much of a good thing.>

I am eager to hear about your designs. Have fun creating!
#3
Rhineglade_
Feb 12, 2009 22:47:02 My first thought is that you might be posing too broad of a question. Perhaps if you tell everyone a little bit more of what you have in mind. What is the "tone" of your current game? Are you all very serious/rule sticklers or do you play with a light-hearted feel?

If you provide a bit of detail concerning what is going on in the campaign thus far, we might be able to provide some ideas, etc.
#4
Tharag_Bocc
Feb 13, 2009 4:44:44
Perhaps if you tell everyone a little bit more of what you have in mind. What is the "tone" of your current game?

As I already said...

[INDENT]One of the key plot elements is that at the start of the campaign one of the PCs (one of the former NPCs) is under a curse and adventures are likely to build towards the goal of removing that curse. I expect there to be lots of looking for clues and sneaking around highlighted with the occasional combat.[/INDENT]

Are you all very serious/rule sticklers or do you play with a light-hearted feel?

No one answer there. We're mostly a mixed bag. One of the players mostly leans in one direction, another leans more in the other direction, and we're still deciding who from the normal group should fill the third seat. As for my self, I'm variable. In play I probably lean towards a stickler, but tend to be much looser when it comes to how I design and set things up.

If you provide a bit of detail concerning what is going on in the campaign thus far, we might be able to provide some ideas, etc.

I'm really not sure what more detail I can provide. I'm only looking for general advice (along with maybe a few potential encounter templates or skill challenge setups) as well as a any hints/suggestions from people who have run (or even played in) low player count, limited role spread, or skill oriented games.
#5
koradzi
Feb 13, 2009 19:07:38 With this particular group makeup, I'd recommend making the emphasis less on combat and more on deception and infiltration tactics. Maybe the party doesn't stand a chance of fighting their way into the evil stronghold (or whatever) - but a little scrying and a few well-placed bribes can reveal the location of the service entrance. It's actually an interesting basis for a campaign; the party knows that they're at a disadvantage in a straight-up battle, and need to use both magical and mundane detective work to avoid getting caught in a fair fight.

When combat does come up, try playing to your party's strengths. Two Controllers and a Striker isn't a bad combination - it's just very min-maxed. As long as the Wizards can keep the ememy incapacitated, the Rogue can make good use of the Combat Advantage that he's gaining on CCed mobs; the issue is that the party's awfully squishy. My advice: try to find ways to make combat more about problem solving. A very cool option, in my opinion, would be to give your party a means of finding out what their opposition is going to be beforehand - what strengths they need to be aware of, and what weaknesses they can exploit.

If it were me, I look at this as an opportunity to create a campaign where the players have to do more preparation and think more tactically than they may be used to. There's rich earth to till there, imo.
#6
Tharag_Bocc
Feb 15, 2009 4:35:15
Two Controllers and a Striker isn't a bad combination - it's just very min-maxed.

Thanks for trying, but the party is 2 rogues and 1 wizard. Most of what you had to say still sounds like good, even if imperfectly formed, advice.
#7
koradzi
Feb 15, 2009 13:10:13
Thanks for trying, but the party is 2 rogues and 1 wizard. Most of what you had to say still sounds like good, even if imperfectly formed, advice.

Was thinking two Wizards and a Rogue, for some reason. :embarrass

Most of what I said still stands, but the party would have to put some real effort into coordinating their choice of abilities. Again, they'd probably have to rely on a lot of crowd control to make up for the lack of a tank, and there are a few things that the Rogues can do to help - I'm thinking Blinding Barrage at 1st Level, e.g.

Another thought: in any gaming group, you have your analytical players, and you have the ones who just want to kick the door down and smash things. For the players who prefer to think their way around a problem, a campaign like this could be like a vacation from the more impatient members of the group.
#8
wannabesuperman
Feb 15, 2009 23:11:05 The two biggest challenges you'll have to overcome in combat: fewer actions per round and a low-hp pool.

The relatively low number of potential actions per round is something that the players will not be able to overcome within the rules, so you'll have to keep it in mind as you run combat.

The low-hp problem is exacerbated by the class choices of the players, and you might consider just giving everyone the Toughness feat to help with that.

If I were you, I'd find a way to introduce an NPC "defender-ish" cleric/warlord that is loyal to the party.
#9
pboyer
Feb 16, 2009 7:28:45
If I were you, I'd find a way to introduce an NPC "defender-ish" cleric/warlord that is loyal to the party.

I discourage this because you want the PCs to be the stars and you don't want to take away from their glories. However, you can do this for a small quest; it's cool to have a temporary NPC party member for a few encounters. Make sure to work on the personality to make her/him memorable, though.
#10
Tharag_Bocc
Feb 16, 2009 16:11:05
If I were you, I'd find a way to introduce an NPC "defender-ish" cleric/warlord that is loyal to the party.

The small group size is part of the setup. If it weren't I'd just recruit additional players from the normal play group rather then add NPCs. This supposed to be a mini-campaign, it is intentionally meant to be of limited scope/resources.

That said, their are a few NPC that might be around, but only if the PCs seek them out and some of them are just as likely to hinder the PCs as to help them depending on how the PCs approach them or what other actions the PCs have taken recently. Either way no NPC is likely to participate in more then 2-3 encounters over the entire levels 6-12 campaign arc.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Tharag_Bocc Feb 10, 2009 17:38:30	I might end up DMing a 4E mini-campaign near the end of April or beginning of May which will probably only include 3 players (2 rogues and a wizard). The campaign will likely run from levels 6 to 12. It's actual more of sidestory, about the adventures of a character that left my old 3.5 Eberron (in the company of two NPCs) and may be rejoining my upcoming 4E continuation of that campaign this summer. One of the key plot elements is that at the start of the campaign one of the PCs (one of the former NPCs) is under a curse and adventures are likely to build towards the goal of removing that curse. I expect there to be lots of looking for clues and sneaking around highlighted with the occasional combat. Anyway, I'm looking for advice on how to designing encounters and skill challenges that will be both fun and appropriate given group size and composition. While I'm not looking for help in laying out plot elements, it would be helpful if the advice also kept the tone and course of this mini-campaign in mind. Thanks in advance to anyone who provides me with useful advice.
#2 pboyer Feb 10, 2009 18:59:00	A 3 player campaign is not drastically different from a 4 or 5 player campaign. I have the following advice for you. Be conscientious about the party composition. The team has no tank and no healer; expect the players to take damage quickly and have limited healing. That means shorter combat encounters than normal. Consider the template of 1-2 baddies + minions. Design your combat encounters using the "XP budgets" technique. Refer to "Target Encounter XP Totals" on p.57 of the DMG. Based on your group composition, I encourage liberal use of non-combat encounters and skill challenges. When designing dungeons, have more traps and puzzles; that approach seems well suited to two rogues and a wizard. Use less combat encounters. (But still use some combat, because it is fun) After the first session, design MORE of what your players LIKED. But always maintain a balance: <"blah blah" about too much of a good thing.> I am eager to hear about your designs. Have fun creating!
#3 Rhineglade_ Feb 12, 2009 22:47:02	My first thought is that you might be posing too broad of a question. Perhaps if you tell everyone a little bit more of what you have in mind. What is the "tone" of your current game? Are you all very serious/rule sticklers or do you play with a light-hearted feel? If you provide a bit of detail concerning what is going on in the campaign thus far, we might be able to provide some ideas, etc.
#4 Tharag_Bocc Feb 13, 2009 4:44:44	Perhaps if you tell everyone a little bit more of what you have in mind. What is the "tone" of your current game? As I already said... [INDENT]One of the key plot elements is that at the start of the campaign one of the PCs (one of the former NPCs) is under a curse and adventures are likely to build towards the goal of removing that curse. I expect there to be lots of looking for clues and sneaking around highlighted with the occasional combat.[/INDENT] Are you all very serious/rule sticklers or do you play with a light-hearted feel? No one answer there. We're mostly a mixed bag. One of the players mostly leans in one direction, another leans more in the other direction, and we're still deciding who from the normal group should fill the third seat. As for my self, I'm variable. In play I probably lean towards a stickler, but tend to be much looser when it comes to how I design and set things up. If you provide a bit of detail concerning what is going on in the campaign thus far, we might be able to provide some ideas, etc. I'm really not sure what more detail I can provide. I'm only looking for general advice (along with maybe a few potential encounter templates or skill challenge setups) as well as a any hints/suggestions from people who have run (or even played in) low player count, limited role spread, or skill oriented games.
#5 koradzi Feb 13, 2009 19:07:38	With this particular group makeup, I'd recommend making the emphasis less on combat and more on deception and infiltration tactics. Maybe the party doesn't stand a chance of fighting their way into the evil stronghold (or whatever) - but a little scrying and a few well-placed bribes can reveal the location of the service entrance. It's actually an interesting basis for a campaign; the party knows that they're at a disadvantage in a straight-up battle, and need to use both magical and mundane detective work to avoid getting caught in a fair fight. When combat does come up, try playing to your party's strengths. Two Controllers and a Striker isn't a bad combination - it's just very min-maxed. As long as the Wizards can keep the ememy incapacitated, the Rogue can make good use of the Combat Advantage that he's gaining on CCed mobs; the issue is that the party's awfully squishy. My advice: try to find ways to make combat more about problem solving. A very cool option, in my opinion, would be to give your party a means of finding out what their opposition is going to be beforehand - what strengths they need to be aware of, and what weaknesses they can exploit. If it were me, I look at this as an opportunity to create a campaign where the players have to do more preparation and think more tactically than they may be used to. There's rich earth to till there, imo.
#6 Tharag_Bocc Feb 15, 2009 4:35:15	Two Controllers and a Striker isn't a bad combination - it's just very min-maxed. Thanks for trying, but the party is 2 rogues and 1 wizard. Most of what you had to say still sounds like good, even if imperfectly formed, advice.
#7 koradzi Feb 15, 2009 13:10:13	Thanks for trying, but the party is 2 rogues and 1 wizard. Most of what you had to say still sounds like good, even if imperfectly formed, advice. Was thinking two Wizards and a Rogue, for some reason. :embarrass Most of what I said still stands, but the party would have to put some real effort into coordinating their choice of abilities. Again, they'd probably have to rely on a lot of crowd control to make up for the lack of a tank, and there are a few things that the Rogues can do to help - I'm thinking Blinding Barrage at 1st Level, e.g. Another thought: in any gaming group, you have your analytical players, and you have the ones who just want to kick the door down and smash things. For the players who prefer to think their way around a problem, a campaign like this could be like a vacation from the more impatient members of the group.
#8 wannabesuperman Feb 15, 2009 23:11:05	The two biggest challenges you'll have to overcome in combat: fewer actions per round and a low-hp pool. The relatively low number of potential actions per round is something that the players will not be able to overcome within the rules, so you'll have to keep it in mind as you run combat. The low-hp problem is exacerbated by the class choices of the players, and you might consider just giving everyone the Toughness feat to help with that. If I were you, I'd find a way to introduce an NPC "defender-ish" cleric/warlord that is loyal to the party.
#9 pboyer Feb 16, 2009 7:28:45	If I were you, I'd find a way to introduce an NPC "defender-ish" cleric/warlord that is loyal to the party. I discourage this because you want the PCs to be the stars and you don't want to take away from their glories. However, you can do this for a small quest; it's cool to have a temporary NPC party member for a few encounters. Make sure to work on the personality to make her/him memorable, though.
#10 Tharag_Bocc Feb 16, 2009 16:11:05	If I were you, I'd find a way to introduce an NPC "defender-ish" cleric/warlord that is loyal to the party. The small group size is part of the setup. If it weren't I'd just recruit additional players from the normal play group rather then add NPCs. This supposed to be a mini-campaign, it is intentionally meant to be of limited scope/resources. That said, their are a few NPC that might be around, but only if the PCs seek them out and some of them are just as likely to hinder the PCs as to help them depending on how the PCs approach them or what other actions the PCs have taken recently. Either way no NPC is likely to participate in more then 2-3 encounters over the entire levels 6-12 campaign arc.