Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 urpriest Mar 01, 2010 23:24:33	I've been putting together an ancient middle-east-ish setting for a while now, and I'm trying to upgrade it to 4.0. It's been a bit trickier than I've anticipated because everything in 4e is so connected in terms of balance, but in working to put it together I've made some nice discoveries. I thought I'd put my current ideas up here and see what kind of advice people have. First, my apologies for the cheesy name, but there is actually in-universe justification for it: the denizens of the setting don't have a name for their world, so they've adopted the term used by the time-traveling steampunk gnomes: Aegypt. The setting is divided into three key areas, with a few side-civilizations contributing character options. In the center lies Tyrept, an Egypt-analogue ruled by a cooperative government of two Pharaohs: a human to the north and a lizardfolk to the south. Many of the setting's races pop up as slaves to the Tyreptians, who are on the whole a lawful evil society. Mummification is common for the wealthy, and is likely the only means of ressurrection available to Tyreptian characters (more on that later). Dinosaurs are also common in this world, and in Tyrept they are revered in much the way the ancient Egyptians worshipped animals, with most of the gods being dinosaur-themed. Nobles undergo a ritual that gives them dinosaur traits as a rite of passage, and bestow this ritual on favored slaves as well (again, more on this later). South of Tyrept lie the southern jungles, which Tyrept constantly raids for slaves and lumber. The jungles are inhabited by wild elves and grippli (frog people from 3.5), who aggressively resist Tyreptian raids. Most of the setting's fey will be associated with this area. Couatls secretly protect the deeper jungles. East of Tyrept lie several nations, most prominently Rilumek, Tyrept's cheif rival. Rilumek is a city-state ruled by the Rilmani (obsessively True Neutral outsiders from 3.5. It will likely be somewhat challenging converting them into alignment-doesn't-matter 4e). Rilumek is an ancient magocracy, where its mostly human and genasi inhabitants determine status primarily via summoning ability. Races: Humans: Remain essentially the same as in other settings. They are the most common citizens of northern Tyrept and Rilumek,  and  may also be part of a few outlying groups (such as the pirates of the northern ocean). Dwarves: Perhaps borrowing some materials from Faerunian Gold Dwarves, the setting's Dwarves live west of Tyrept in an inaccessible mountain kingdom containing the worlds most prolific gold mines. As such, Dwarves act primarily as merchants in Tyrept and the surrounding areas. Dwarves generally try to avoid getting involved in others' business, and as such should be uncommon, but reasonable, player characters. Statistics unchanged. Elves: Wild elves of the southern jungles, elves have a blend of masai and bantu traits, including scarring and metalworking (though with mithril replacing iron). They like raptors and scimitars. Elves will likely be restricted from taking the wood elf feat and allowed to take the wild elf feat, but will otherwise be mechanically the same. Their class preferences are largely fine for me, though I'd rather they didn't do anything too civilized. As they are often taken as slaves, they are good for most types of campaigns in the setting. Half-elves: Elves are attractive, so elven slaves are often taken as concubines. Half-elves occasionally result. Sometimes they are kept enslaved like their elves parents, but other times they are treated as well as some European nations treated bastard offspring of nobles. I'm also largely fine with their class preferences. Tieflings: Nomads from Al-Miraj, the treacherous desert to the east of Tyrept. Tormented by the devils and efreets of the desert, they have ceased to be exactly human. While escaping from their patrons is difficult, those that manage can be viable player characters. Mechanically they will likely stay the same, though like the Dwarves I'd rather they weren't common character choices. Devas: The Devas in this setting are the Amu. Enslaved by Tyrept until most had forgotten their homeland, the chaos of a recent war with Rilumek and the return of their angelic patrons has allowed them to fight their way to freedom. They now have a nation, Amushalom, between Rilumek and Tyrept, and are in a tenuous state of peace with their neighbors. Amu used to be aasimar in my old setting, but in updating to 4.0 I'm fine with making them blue and 7 feet tall. While they have all Deva mechanics, their memory powers are reflavored to be results of their angelic patronage. One of the few negative results of shifting Amu over to Devas as opposed to humans/aasimar is the impossibility of what was a truly awesome character, the half-jewish half-ogre Gragstein. However, I am otherwise content with this change. I like the fact that Devas like the divine classes, their adeptness at wizardry and some primal options is a little more annoying. Gnome: As alluded to above, these are time-traveling steampunk archaeologists. Stranded in an era they only meant to visit, Gnomes (or Neh-Blehn as they are called by the people of Aegypt) immediately offered themselves as slaves to the Pharaoh, as their canny knowledge of Tyreptian culture assured them that doing so would mean that no-one else would dare harm them. Now they dole out knowledge while attempting to avoid paradoxes and find a way to get home. Gnomes' fade away power is reflavored as drifting slightly out of the proper time, and their fey connection will likely be downplayed (though not eliminated, as fey-themed feats are still part of gnome balance). To encourage them to play steampunk archaeologist-adventurer types like rangers and rogues I'm giving them a gnome-only weapon multiclass feat for guns. My current thinking is that guns will be superior crossbows with free reload that can be reloaded and shot in one hand, have the off-hand property, and count as both bows and crossbows for class abilities. To avoid creating a price for them they will only come in magic form, and if I have a gnome PC I will try to get them a magic gun as soon as possible if they plan for the proficiency. Gnomes also have whiskey and flying machines, and their home city is a giant zepplin with a clock on the front and (broken) time travel abilities. Genasi: I likely will limit these to the originally presented manifestations, ignoring smoke, ooze, and the like. Fire, Water, Air, and Earth Genasi come from Rilumek, where the large population of summoned genies has worked its way into the gene pool. Storm Genasi may end up being the pirates to the north, either exclusively or along with humans. These pirates are a bit like the ancient greeks, but with a homeland infested by mythological monsters they are forced to the high seas to plague Tyreptian merchants. Gnoll: Not encouraged as players, but part of the setting. Gnolls live in the Al-Sifar desert to the west of Tyrept, where they worship those beings that the Tyreptians call demons (and which in fact are demons. Funny that). Goblin/Kobold: While they exist in the setting, they are at best minor slaves, the latter mostly to hobgoblins and their dragon masters, and are not encouraged as characters. Hobgoblin: The Haab'har, or haab-goblins as Tyreptians call them, are a proud but misunderstood race. The primary Aegyptian races consider them little but barbarians because of their exotic dress and odd customs, but they are in fact the most civilized and organized nation in that part of the world. In the mountains east of Rilumek the Haab'har have a vast empire under Drakka-Khan Darius Xercesi, who is guided in turn by a variety of metallic and chromatic dragons worshipped under a Zoroastrian style religion. Such dragons will include most of the available True Dragons (not sure if that term was kept from 3.5), excluding Greens (too foresty), Blacks (as they pop up elsewhere), and Blues (for similar reasons). Haab'har fill a similar role to a combination of Persia and the Mongols, and are a potential surprise factor in a campaign (as their civilization is vastly more powerful than most of the denizens of the setting are aware. As an example, few people in the setting know dragons even exist). As such, while they will generally be encouraged as player characters, they will be somewhat limited. Mechanically, I'd like them to be good tactical warlords, dragon sorcerors, and potentially casters and defenders as well. Here's what I'm considering: --Abilities: Haab'har will get Con, and be able to choose Cha or Int. That should buff them somewhat and make them attractive to tactical warlords. --Feats: As the setting has no Eladrin and hobgoblins have no racial feats yet, Haab'har will be stealing their sword/spear and historical knowlege themed feats. I can't in good conscience give them the fey feats however. I feel like this may still be too weak, so any suggestions are welcome. What would motivate you to play a hobgoblin? Minotaur: Favored slaves of the Tyreptians, Minotaurs often serve as stewards and bodyguards. Immensely loyal due partly to often being, to put it crudely, steers, Minotaurs devotedly defend and fight for their masters. While the feat support for Minotaurs is already excellent and will get better in the PHB3, as the setting has no Goliaths I was thinking of giving them a few of the Goliath feats as well, but this may make them too powerful. Grippli: Frog-people of the southern jungles, grippli are happy-go-lucky treetop dwellers. I will likely use halfling stats for them, which should be adequate. While this will make primal characters less likely, it will also create a southern jungles race with a propensity for chaos sorcery, which is another thing I'm trying for. Dragonborn: Many commenters have remarked that dragonborn are dumb. This is true. One of the best discoveries of the setting-work I have been doing is that dragonborn fall naturally into place and make some goddamn sense. In this setting, Dragonborn are Blackscale Lizardfolk. Citizens of Tyrept, Blackscale Lizardfolk have an Aztec-like culture on the Tyreptian side of the southern jungles. They worship Kalahuyak, goddess of the Kalahuyasaur, rarely observed "dinosaurs" that are actually black dragons. After centuries of breeding with Kalahuyasaurs, Blackscale Lizardfolk are larger than ordinary lizardfolk and have black scales and an acid breath weapon (yes, Dragonborn will be restricted to only having acid breath weapons. Admixture is still allowed, but otherwise they are all black dragon related). They will likely be some of the setting's only dragon sorcerors, aside from Haab'har. They will also trade their bonus to history for one to nature to represent their tribal society. I think almost all of the standard player choices for them are appropriate, even paladins (the setting has many evil paladins, which will be further explained later). I'll cover the rest of the setting's races in an upcoming post, as well as what I want to do with the classes and other mechanics, but if you have any initial comments feel free to post.
#2 urpriest Mar 02, 2010 14:30:21	Alright, back and ready to finish the races section. Sorry for the wall-of-text nature of this post, by the way. I would have broken things up into separate questions, but I had a feeling that they would all end up tied together and just lead to confusion. Shifters: Like Dragonborn, Shifters have annoyed me in the past. While they don't have the same inherent dumbness of the Dragonborn concept, most non-eberron settings don't have any reason to have shifters be nearly as common as they are as players, especially in non-primal classes. Another nice discovery in this setting is that shifters stats fit neatly into place when used as Lizardfolk. Lizardfolk are the majority in southern Tyrept, where their Aztec-like culture ranges from civilized to tribal. Normal Lizardfolk will use Longtooth shifter stats, and I'm largely content with the character options common to longtooths. The setting also contains Poison Dusk Lizarfolk, the small lizardfolk subrace from 3.5. Poison Dusk Lizardfolk are generally more civilized than normal Lizardfolk, and often take arcane classes. I'll be using Razorclaw stats for them, but in order to promote arcane characters I'm giving them the choice of +2 Int instead of +2 Wis. While I'd like them to be smalll I'm not sure if doing so would be balanced or if it would make them underpowered. Suggestions on this topic are welcome. For both shifters the shifting powers are understood not as actual shapeshifting but as a sort of blood frenzy. Ogres/Half-Ogres: Long ago Tyrept enslaved a nation of Ogres, a distant outpost of the Haab'har ruled by Blue Dragons. Now that nation and its dragons have been largely forgotten, and for centuries Ogres have been the most trusted slaves in Tyreptian society. This trust has allowed them ample opportunities for crime, and Ogres control a vast mafia-like organization. Ogre leaders were instrumental in the recent war with Rilumek, and as a result the entire Ogre race has recently been freed from servitude and an Ogre Pharaoh has been installed, with authority over Ogres and a tiebreaker role between the Human and Lizardfolk Pharaohs. Half-Ogres are common for similar, if slightly different reasons as Half-Elves, and they historically have been treated similarly, though now all are free. Half-Ogre players may be fairly common, and will use Half-Orc stats which mesh well with the brutal rogue interpretation of Ogres in this setting. Full Ogres will likely not be available to players, though they might be represented by Orcs with oversized weapons. Bugbears: While I'm unlikely to allow them as players while they've still got oversized weapons, Bugbears are the violent borderlanders of the Haab'har empire, raiding surrounding civilizations under the command of White Dragons. Troglodyte: The most decadent of the Lizardfolk, Troglodytes are prone to excesses of relgious fervor including cannibalism and human sacrifice. While discouraged as player characters, they might as well be represented by Bullywugs. Mummies: I'm still not sure how I'm handling mummies, more on this later. I may allow starting characters to be longtime mummies just recently beginning to adventure, such characters will likely use Warforged or Revenant stats. You'll note several races are missing, but I believe I've covered most relevant ability score combinations. Of the missing races the only one I really regret is the Githzerai. While I might have used them for Poison Dusk Lizardfolk, currently all three types of lizardfolk have a "more powerful when bloodied" theme that ties the race together, and I don't want to break that.
#3 urpriest Mar 02, 2010 14:55:01	Classes: This setting allows almost all of the character classes. The only classes I am flat-out disallowing are those that use power points, as this setting has no psionics as such. I'd like to allow monks, but if getting rid of psionic multiclassing options weakens them too much then I may have to eliminate them as well. Other classes have some notes: Cleric/Invoker/Paladin/Avenger: Many divine characters will serve the Tyreptian gods and thus be evil. This is one place where 4e's flexibility with alignments helps me, as these classes no longer lose important elements by being evil. Paladins in particular need no adjustment. While the use of radiant attacks might be a little odd for an evil divine caster in most settings, Tyreptians chief diety is a sun god and as such grants many radiant powers despite being evil and supportive of undead. As for powers keyed to the particular gods, I will likely stick to giving the gods domains and using the domain feats introduced in divine power, as this allows for more flexibility. Warlock: Warlocks are intimately tied with the beings that happen to rule a given setting, and as such present a challenge of adaptation, but not a terribly tricky one. Infernal warlocks will be associated with devils, which in this setting rule the Al-Miraj desert, are often summoned by Rilumekki mages, and serve as the primary theological foes of the Amu. The other pacts are trickier to work in. Fey and primal spirits are subsumed under a general  notion of jungle spirits in this setting, but these should for the most part be appropriate for the Fey pact as long as teleporting powers are given a subtly more primal feel (dissipating into mist for example). The Vestige pact may have to be adapted a little in terms of what the vestiges were, but otherwise it should still be appropriate, as the setting has many forgotten beings. Star and Dark pact are trickier, as the setting has no underdark, very very very few aberrations, and no Far Realm. One option is keying one of these to the darkness and chaos focused demons of the Al-Sifar desert worshipped by Gnolls and Tyreptian renegages. I haven't chosen which, however. While the setting has astrology, I don't feel that the Star Pact should be primarily about this as it doesn't fit the theme of most of the powers. Wizard: Summoning is a vital part of Rilumekki society, with status determined almost exclusively on summoning ability. As such, summoning focused wizards are strongly encouraged, though other types are fine. The setting has a fairly reasonable set of attached planes that should make most summons work with only minor reflavoring. Sorceror: Most of the types of Sorceror are fine. Chaos and Storm sorcerors could simply appear among people, while Cosmic sorcerors could be tied to the astrological traditions of Tyrept and Rilumek. Dragon Sorcerors will be somewhat restricted, however. Dragons are known only to Haab'har, Blackscale Lizardfolk, and a few Ogres, and only players of those races will be allowed to be Dragon Sorcerors. Artificer: Classically steampunk Artificers will exist among the Neh-Blehn. Other races will have artificers as well, but reflavored. Artificers will be called Architects. Specialists in the construction of tombs and their attendant guardians and treasure for wealthy mummies, Architects powers will be reflavored to have a more stone-golems and canopic jars theme. They should be available to any of the sufficiently civilized races. Swordmage: Swordmages do exist in this setting, trained by the arcane war colleges of Tyrept, Rilumek, and the Haab'har. Generally Tyrept trains Aegis of Shielding, Rilumek trains Aegist of Assault, and the Haab'har train Aegis of Ensnarement, but other combinations are common. Assassins/Seekers: I don't like the flavor of either of these classes, but I can see no rational reason to forbid them, so it seems they will have a place in the setting.
#4 urpriest Mar 02, 2010 14:58:40	General Information: I'm hoping that the pure mounts-for-money system of 4e already handles dinosaur mounts, which will make it much more convenient than working them into 3.5 was, but I haven't done much checking, so comments are appreciated. Mummies are the trickiest aspect. As mentioned above, I'd like mummification to be the primary sort of resurrection for Tyreptian characters. I'd rather not have it be identical to resurrection, however (coming back as one of the undead should mean something), but so far I have very little idea as to what would be balanced in that respect. If any of you have experience with running campaigns in which resurrection works differently, how game-breaking are changes to the resurrection system, and what are some safe ways to modify things? Regardless of this I might or might not allow characters to play older mummies in the form of Warforged or Revenants, the concept being that such a character has lost some of their racial features to the decay of the ages but has become more resilient as a result. Which one of these to use is something I'm largely undecided about, and they both have certain inadequacies (limited potential as casters for example). As briefly mentioned above, each of the dinosaur themed gods of Tyrept has an associated ritual that imbues a character with dinosaurlike traits. In 3.5 I modeled these with templates with themed ability score adjustments, but with both of those not making sense in 4.0 I had to change things. My current plan is to modify the dragonmarks. Like dragonmarks, a given character can have only one of these rituals in effect. Like dragonmarks I want them to be more powerful than normal feats and racially limited as a result. Also like dragonmarks I want them to have a largely cosmetic element and a more transformative element. My plan is to replace the ritual casting element of dragonmarks with natural weapons. Given that there are no static natural weapon rules in 4.0 I am going to use the following: each natural weapon will function as a specific simple or in some cases martial weapon except that it cannot be disarmed and never needs to be drawn. It can be enhanced in the same manner as monk unarmed strikes, battlefists, and the like, and will function like the corresponding weapon in all respects. The non-natural weapon part of the feat will vary, and I've only found one feat's worth that I'd like to include. It would be nice if I could rip off dragonmarks, but except for a few they don't really fit what I'd like out of the rituals. Here are the relevant gods and the effects of their rituals: -Tyrannos-Re: Gives a bite attack, predilection towards gluttony, might have some synergy with radiant powers, should appeal to defenders and/or leaders, particularly melee-oriented ones -Plodentys: Gives a tail attack (perhaps with reach), a long neck, and also a predilection towards gluttony. Should have benefits for leaders with some healing synergy, particularly for clerics. Might have some earth/plant theme as well. -Elazabek: Gives a bite attack and a predilection towards deception. Should have synergy with deceptive, high-charisma classes (cha rogues, warlocks, bards), and may have some water themed abilities. -Leoraptor: Gives claw attacks and predatory bloodlust. Should have synergy with brutal, stealthy characters (rangers, rogues, some barbarians, some avengers) -Pteremes: Might give a weak bite or no attacks at all, but will likely give a flight/gliding ability. Should appeal to scholarly characters, both arcane and potentially divine. -Underworld Guardians: These three gods give three different natural attacks (two tails with different stats and a gore). They should appeal to defenders, and as such I will likely take the dragonmark benefit that enhances marks and defense bonuses and transplant it here. Those should be all the relevant rules modifications I'd like to make to the setting, but if anything more comes up I'll add it.
#5 urpriest Mar 04, 2010 14:57:06	By the way, is this the right forum for this stuff, or should it go under Houserules? I'm new here so I wasn't really sure.
#6 grumpycelt Mar 04, 2010 22:38:17	By coincidence, I am listening to an audio book production of The Histories by Herodotus. He discusses Egypt at length and relatively little of it discusses gods and instead he is (apparently) more interested in how the people behave and nuances like animal life.   In the swampy-delta, the people keep mosquitoes and gnats off them with netting so they can sleep at night. In the uplands, they sleep on the upper floors and in open spaces where the winds keep the insects at bay.
#7 urpriest Mar 05, 2010 20:26:32	While the setting isn't intended to be particularly realistic, I do like fitting in little details like that on occasion. The word Amu, for example, is fairly close to what the ancient egyptians actually called early hebrews (it means asians, as they didn't really distinguish them from other semitic tribes). I also include a little of the ever-popular characterization of egyptian beer as essentially bread, which creates a sharp contrast with the gnome-imported whiskey.