Hello All,
Just curious to get peoples thoughts on an alternate method of hit point generation we are going to be trying out. Find the basic guidlines below. Note, this is meant to be a "setting specific" set of alternate rules for a homebrew, gritty, "Black Company style" world I am designing. The lower hit points should make things a little deadlier and a good bit faster paced (4e combats can tend to drag out, especially at the paragon tier). Additionally, note there will be no divine classes in this world/setting.
So, with that in mind, let me know your thoughts, how you think this will play out going through the heroic and paragon levels, etc. Also note again, this is for an alternate setting/theme...not to insinuate there is anything wrong with the RAW, rather to capture a feel I want for this world (less "high fantasy", more grim, deadly and much faster paced).
Appreciate your feedback!!!!!
Alternate Hit Points for a "gritty" Setting - Characters and monsters only gain new hit points at odd numbered levels. Start with the standard hit points as normal, but only increase hit points at every odd level.
Altering Monsters
Standard Monsters - Subtract the "Hit Point Type" for each even numbered level the standard monster has (Hit Point Types: Lurkers and Artillery - 6; Soldiers, Controllers and Skirmishers - 8; Brutes 10)
Elites - RAW; An elite monster has hit points equal to twice the hit points of the standard monster, plus twice its Constitution score.
Alternate - subtract the monster role "hit point type" for each even level the elite has, then subtract the con score for the final result.
Solo - RAW; A solo has hit points equal to 8 times its level +1, plus its Constitution score. Multiply that result by 4 for its final hit points.
Alternate - A solo has hit points equal to 8 times its odd Numbered levels +1, plus its Constitution score. Multiply that result by 4 for its final hit points (Artillery and Lurkers, subtract 12 from the final result. Brutes, add 20 to the final result.)
Alternate Hit Points Examples
Character Class Examples
Fighter (assuming a Con of 15) Druid (assuming a Con of 15)
Hit Points at 1st Level: 15 + Con Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Con
HPs per ODD NUMBERED Levels Gained: 6 HPs per ODD NUMBERED Levels Gained: 5
Level/Hit Points Level/Hit Points
- 1 30 1 27
- 2 30 2 27
- 3 36 3 32
- 4 36 4 32
- 5 46 5 37
- 6 46 6 37
- 7 52 7 42
- 8 52 8 42
- 9 58 9 47
- 10 58 10 47
Standard Monster Examples
Gnoll Gorger Level 7 Brute (HP/level: 10) Orc Raider Level 3 Skirmisher (HP/level: 8)
As Printed: HP 96 Alternate: HP 66 As Printed: HP 46 Alternate: HP 38
Elite Examples
Oni Mage Orc Chieftan
(Con : 20) Level 10 Elite Lurker (HP/level: 6) (Con : 18) Level 8 Elite Brute (HP/level: 10)
As Printed: HP 172 Alternate: HP 122 As Printed: HP 216 Alternate: HP 158
Solo Examples
Young Gold Dragon Behir Bolter Whelp Solo Solider
(Con: 15) Level 9 Solo Brute (HP/level: 8 - solo) (Con: 16) Level 8 Solo Brute (HP/level: 8 - solo)
As Printed: HP 380 As Printed: HP 352
Alternate: HP 252 (brute+20=272 total) Alternate: HP 224 (No adjustment for solider)
Really, this makes the game more gritty. If that's what you want in your game, you should probably give these rules a shot, but I personally haven't tried them yet. Seems fine for what you're trying to achieve though.
Really, this makes the game more gritty. If that's what you want in your game, you should probably give these rules a shot, but I personally haven't tried them yet. Seems fine for what you're trying to achieve though.
Cool...thanks for the feedback!!!
If you want to reduce HP gain, just half how many they get from level ups. Making it only happen at odds just makes things seem weird.
Note, though, that this won't really make anything "gritty". An HP system will never be "gritty". All this will do is make fights shorter, increase player deaths, and make combat a crapshot. When one or two hits can take you down by the roll of a dice, some level of tactics is lost. If this is what you want, go for it.
First of all, I recommend that you get this moved to the homebrew forum as that is where house rules should be posted.
Anyway, there was someone who suggested reducing the hit points of everything as well although he used a different formula. I think he strictly halved everything. Many had the opinion that it would make it much easier on the PC's. Hit points play a bigger portion on the power of a monster than that of a PC. It probably would apply to your house rules as well. In any case, the only way to know is to actually try it out.
Seems messy, with little gain over halving hit points across the board.
Will it achieve its purpose? that I can't say. I'll make it more dangerous, but that's not synonymous with gritty.
Thanks for the comments all. Maybe it's not the best way to go for that gritty feel, but we will test drive it at any rate. I do think it will make fights more intense.
I did think about half hit points every level, but this actually seems more straightfoward to me, because there are classes out there that get odd numbered hit points. This way seemed easier, and in the end, accomplishes the same thing.
I do think that combats can get a bit long and drawn out in 4e, especially when you get to that paragon tier, so I'm hoping this picks the pace up a bit. Maybe gritty isn't the right way to put it, but definately more "intense" I guess. I mean, the damage will be the same, so yeah, you will have to be on your toes more. But it's balanced on both side, cuz both the monsters and the PCs will be subject to the half hit points mechanic.
Curious, can anyone out there who's actually dabbled with halving hit points sound off on this? Let us know how it worked for you?
Thanks again for the comments guys.
I cut down on monster HP for Solos and Elites, (They loose ~1/3) it speeds up combat a lot.
Basically the fight is over when all the other enemies die, and we skip out on the "surround the solo and hit it until it eventually dies" phase.
I wouldn't mess with player HP, but I think if I wanted gritty I would do something along the lines of...
PCs have half as many healing surges as normal. Only Dwarves may spend one without a leader, Dwarves do this as a standard action. (Cut back on heal boosting magic items). Then I would get rid of natural healing through an extended rest, and the ability to use powers outside of combat(specifically healing ones, the ones designed for out of combat stuff are still ok). I'd have PCs heal at X hp per night, possibly imposing a penalty to all die rolls and defenses while wounded. (off the top of my head, -1 for every 20 hp damage or something).
Honestly the end result is probably just lots of dead PCs, really if I wanted a gritty dnd stystem, I would convert 4e shadowrun to fantasy instead.
What exactly do you mean by gritty? What are you trying to simulate?
Also, move this to Houserules indeed, you'll get more help there.
Mike Mearls posted an alternative way of doing wounds for a grittier style on his blog - check this post: Rules tinkering: system shock
someone had mentioned elsewhere using the disease track mechanics. I'm currently playing with that idea.
For example:
Injury: immediate reaction
trigger: you are brought below 0 hp as the result of a critical hit.
Effects: depending on location
1 = Foot - unable to shift, -1 speed
2 = Leg - -2 speed
3 = Hip - -1 to all defenses, -1 speed
4 = Torso -2 to all defenses
5 = Arm - unable to wield an item in off-hand
6 = Hand - when wielding an item in off-hand -1 to attacks, you take 1 damage
7 = Face - -2 charisma
8 = Head - concussion, whenever you take damage you become dazed (save ends)
Treating Injuries:
A character trained in healing may attempt to heal the injury. Roll a healing skill check vs DC appropriate to the level of the INJURED party. If High DC, injury is healed, on moderate, injury is tended. If the check falls below the moderate value, character loses 1 healing surge. If the character does not have a healing surge, the one tended the wound may lose 1 in his/her place. If neither injured nor healer have surges remaining, injury becomes permanent.
In addition, any time a character with an injury uses a healing surge (or receives healing that requires use of a healing surge) (s)he MAY make a healing check based on the chart above.
Injuries and Resting
During an extended rest, an injured character will regain 1/2 (rounded down) any lost surges, unless treated. (see above)
I'll have to play with it a bit more
That would mean a first level Brute has 1 Con score in HP, which is like 12 points or something. Doesn't sound very Brutish to me
This probably works nicely from level 5 and up, but first level creatures will be pretty low on HP and I don't think the +3 damage makes up for the -66% HP...
Yea, I've thought about this. Thought about not kicking this rule in until level 3.
Also gave thought to only reducing the hit points at the heroic tier by 1 level (instead of 2).
Still mulling that over, but your point is well taken.
You know what, I actually kinda like that. It combines the monsters "type" and scales with each tier.
If I am correct, the numbers would look like this...
- Hit Die 10; Damage: +3 heroic, +4 paragon, +5 epic
- Hit Die 8; Damage: +2 heroic, +3 paragon, +4 epic
- Hit Die 6; Damage: +1 heroic, +2 paragon, +3 epic
And to go "hand in hand" with that, the hit points would adjust like this (again, dropping two levels of hit points)...
- Artillery and Lurkers -12 hit points (-24 for elites, -48 for solos)
- Controllers, Soldiers and Skirmishers -16 hit points (-32 for elites, -64 for solos)
- Brutes - 20 hit points (-40 for elites, - 80 for solos)
It's easy, clean and fast to adjust on the fly, and it's using the mechanics provided in the DMG (house rule slightly, increasing and decreasing the monster at the same time, but it works...and it keeps the level (and thus XP value) of the monster the same.
I'm liking this!!!
Yes, it's a lot nicer than trying to apply a percentage change.It might be a bit too much for monster levels 1 & 2:
e.g. Fire Beetle (L1 Brute) goes from 32 Hits, 2d4+2 damage, to 12 Hits, 2d4+4 damage. This is much less threatening to the PCs.
. . . I can provide a more complete analysis if you like?
I'd be curious to see whatever you came up with. But, I have another idea on the hit points. Would it be easier, instead of basing the drop in hit points and increase in damage off the creature type, for simplicity sake, go with fixed numbers? Try this on for size
- Heroic; -10 hit points (-20 elites, -40 solos), Damage +1
- Paragon; -15 hit points (-30 elites, -60 solos), Damage +3
- Epic; -20 hit points (-40 elites, -80 solos), Damage +5
Hmmm...thinking about the damage those damage #'s may not look like much at first glance, but especialy when facing mutliple targets, that's an additional X amount of damage every hit. even at +3 damage, you get hit 3 times, that's an additional 9 damage.
In fact, that damage may be to high. Maybe a fixed number of +2 to all damage would be better. Or +2 heroic/paragon and +4 epic.
I recently made a simple modification to try and speed up the encounters in my game, which seem to have been growing longer and longer as the characters levelled up (currently at level 18).
I decreased monster hp by 20%, and increased the average monster damage by 25%. (Notice that 0.80 * 1.25 = 1.00)
It has worked really well for the few games I have used it: the monsters hit a bit harder, which makes the first few rounds of the encounter a bit more exciting. They also fall dead a bit sooner, preventing the encounter from dragging on as much.
I recently made a simple modification to try and speed up the encounters in my game, which seem to have been growing longer and longer as the characters levelled up (currently at level 18).
I decreased monster hp by 20%, and increased the average monster damage by 25%. (Notice that 0.80 * 1.25 = 1.00)
It has worked really well for the few games I have used it: the monsters hit a bit harder, which makes the first few rounds of the encounter a bit more exciting. They also fall dead a bit sooner, preventing the encounter from dragging on as much.
Cool, thanks for the feedback. Good to hear this is something that's working.
Well, just about out of here. Managed to put aside my D&D obsession and get some work done, but at some point during the day I realize i was penalizing solos to much in thier loss of hit points. I was basing that amount of the hit die type of the creature when all solol use d8 for hit points. So, re-hashed as follows...
Assuming a reduction in 2 levels worth of hit dice...
- Artillery and Lurkers -12 hit points (-24 for elites, -36 for solos)
- Controllers, Soldiers and Skirmishers -16 hit points (-32 for elites, -48 for solos)
- Brutes -20 hit points (-40 for elites, - 60 for solos)
I recently made a simple modification to try and speed up the encounters in my game, which seem to have been growing longer and longer as the characters levelled up (currently at level 18).
Actually there is a very good reason for this. First off I hear people talk about how the decrease in HP will change the flow of combat by making monsters not stay around as long and all that. But what they don't realize or at least fail to mention is that it is already happening but in the opposite direction.
What I mean by this is I like to crunch numbers. And LOTS of numbers often as a way to establish base lines for things to make things that are balanced within the current system as I also like to add custom things like custom classes or monsters. Anyhow more to the point which is while doing extensive number crunching I noticed a large discrepancy in the rate at which damage increases vs the rate at which HP increases.
Rather then having long tables showing avg dmg increase each level with avg HP increase it's easier to simply take the starting points and the end points on both which really shows how they stand out. First we'll start with the Monsters and use the tables in the DMG for our figures.
Normal Damage
Med Level 1-3 1d10+3 (Avg 8.5)
Med Level 28-30 3d8+10 (Avg 23.5) Increase of 176%
Limited Damage
Med Level 1-3 2d10+3 (Avg 14)
Med Level 28-30 5d10+9 (Avg 36.5) Increase of 161%
The increase varies for each progression but they are all fairly close to each other with Normal Low at 192%, N Med 176%, N High 180%, Limited Low 130%, L Med 161%, and L High 152%. So as you can see the "Big" hit powers actually increase at a lower rate then the normal powers thus they aren't as big hitting as one might expect over time.
Before we compare the monster HP let's compare the player HP gains because this is where that monster damage is going to be focusing. This can be hard to establish a starting point for complete 1 to 1 % comparison since a player can start with anywhere from 8-20 CON and have huge differences based on class. I have run the numbers on the damage though and monsters gain about half a point of damage every level with Normal powers which turns out to be that add/remove 1 damage per 2 levels suggested in DMG for adjusting monster level. Limited powers however change closer to 1 point of damage per level though actually a little less.
But even with the large difference in player HP we can make some basic comparisons. Regardless of starting HP each player gains hit points 29 times as they increase from level 1 to 30. They gain either 4-6 at a constant rate so first let's take a look at how many they gain. 4 Per level gains 116, 5 Per level gains 145, and 6 per level gains 174. Next we can easily assume the average player starts with between 20-30 HP which is a nice baseline. Now we can use that to establish the % increase for each player's HP over the course of those 30 levels. 4 Per level 387%-580% increase, 5 Per level 483%-725% increase, and 6 Per level 580%-870% increase.
As you can easily see there is a HUGE gap between how much monster damage increases compared to how many HP players get. Even with the large bandwidth on which players HP can land it is still fairly easy to determine that by level 30 it will take the monsters at least twice as many hits to kill the players as it did when they were level 1 if not more.
Now let's move on to the player's damage and monsters HP gains which is even WORST. For the player we'll use a typical at will base attack since there are way to many powers to go into with tons of different combinations and such but even so I have still crunched many numbers on them and they tend to stay fairly close to the pattern as well. Now average player let's say has 1d8+Mod attack to start and we'll say they have an 18 in that stat. This means they start with 8.5 average damage. By level 30 the mod will have increased +4, the attack with be 2W, the player will have +6 enchantment, and possible 1-3 feat bonus damage. So the new damage with be 2d8+8(Mod)+6(Enc)+#(1-3 Feat/Misc Bonus). This means the average damage is now 23 (24-26 w/Feat/Misc). If you'll notice that is very similar to the damage output of the monsters Normal Medium. And even if you assumed they player started with d10-d12 or later upgraded to one that only changes the overall damage by 1-2 points not enough to make a huge impact when we start comparing the monster HP.
Finally we're ready to take a look at monster's HP. Just like players the monsters HP can varry quite a bit based on their starting CON. But just like players they gain a set amount over the course of but thankfully how much they gain is also more closely tied to their total then players. For example monsters gain #+CON+(Level*#) where the # is the amount gained but it's easy enough to see that this is easily translated into CON+(Level+1)*# which just so happens to be the equation given for the first step of calculating Solo's HP ;) followed by the multiply by 4 or 5. Anyhow let's look at how those numbers line up.
Monster HP 6
Level 1 CON + 12
Level 30 CON + 186
Monster HP 8
Level 1 CON + 16
Level 30 CON + 248
Monster HP 10
Level 1 CON + 20
Level 30 CON + 310
Next we'll assume the monster has between 10-20 CON to establish a HP % Increase range like we did for the players. For 6 HP Monsters they increase 544%-791%, for 8 HP Monsters they increase 644%-892%, and for 10 HP monsters they increase 725%-967%. Since the % are based on the amount increase those that have a lower starting point increase by a larger % since the increase is linear. Even with that in mind the lower end percentages still show the underlying discrepancy.
The end result on the player's side is the same as it was on the monster's side. Which is by level 30 it will take them on average twice as many hits to kill a monster of equal level then it did at level 1. So yes there is a very good reason why combat feels like it is becoming longer at the higher tiers. And that is because IT IS becoming longer.
In closing I know I left a few things out like player's encounters and Dailies but they tend to follow the monster's Limited Damage scale just like much in the way the at-will followed the Normal. The main difference is that players have more Encounters and Dailies to throw at monsters then the monsters have "Limited" powers to throw at the players. Also players may have class features like striker additional damage such as rogue's Sneak Attack. Well I had also taken them into account and they don't increase that much either most of which increase less then 200%.
If you have any questions on this though feel free to ask.
In regards to the OP it is similar to one that I came up with for a friend's group who wanted to speed things up. Though instead of making things over complicated with only on even levels and such it was simply Players and Monsters gain 1/2 as many HP per level.
For players this is easy for 4 & 6 HP per level as it becomes 2 & 3. But for 5 HP per level it becomes 2.5 which means it bounces between 2 & 3 or an easy way to remember is on even levels gain even HP of 2 and on odd levels gain odd number of HP 3.
For monsters since they all increase by an even number of HP per level it is a lot easier. First off to make sure that their HP remain the same at level 1 requires a small change to the HP formula. The new formula is CON + (Level + 3) * #. Simply use 3, 4, and 5 in place of the 6, 8, and 10 that it previously was. If you want to convert current monsters it's also kinda simple as you simply subtract (level - 1) * # where you have # as half the original HP gain. So for example a level 10 soldier you would subtract (10 - 1) * 4 = 36 HP. For Elites you double it and with Solos multiply either 4 or 5 depending on the level.
My previous post I went into a bit of detail on how the Damage increase doesn't keep up with the HP increase which leads to combat becoming longer. As the OP mentioned the point of the change was that combat at later levels, especially paragon tier, was getting a bit long.
So the questions then become how do these changes effect balance and the game. First off since the only change is to how many HPs are gained per level at level 1 there is NO change what so ever to the current system. The change shows up at later levels as both players and monsters gain fewer HP then they normally would.
The amount is still more then the increase in damage but the game maintains a much riskier feel that it did during the first few levels 1-3 for a much longer time. Combat also maintains the Heroic feel and pacing for a lot longer as well. This HP setup also scales well across all levels unlike some other HP change suggestions which are simple HP % cuts.
As for other impacts on the gain it makes HP gain feats like Toughness more valuable. And because players have fewer HP that means they will have lower HS value at later levels so powers that heal for additional amounts on top of HSV are a lot more prized and sought after. Also the static healing amounts like with potions become more useful.
Overall though they changes won't show up until several levels in and in the later tiers. Since the first few levels only have a few HPs fewer then they normally would which a single dice roll could easily negate as players rarely kill monsters with exact HP but instead often do several points over on the final blow.
Now for the upside of this. Personally I think it allows for a lot more viable play styles to be done. If you've hung out in the forums a lot and read some of the post on DMs having trouble challenging their players to post about how long and drawn out combat is their seems to be a common theme. That theme is players can take a TON of damage and so can monsters.
First I'll address the DMs challenging the players. Well as I showed in my previous post the HP vastly out paces monster's ability to deal damage. But this also means player's ability to heal vastly out paces it as well since most forms of healing are tied directly to the HSV which is 1/4 the player's HP.
The Normal Medium damage for a monster is 8.5 on average while let's say the average HP of a player is 25 so they can take 3 hits. The HSV of that player would be an 8 meaning they could take another hit after a heal. Now by level 30 the monster's average damage increases to 23.5 while and average player gained 5 HP per level for a total of now 170 HP which means they can now take 8 hits. That's over double what they could before and their HSV is 42 thus adding another 2 hits they can take after a heal.
So players become a lot more resilient as they level up and can rely less and less on the need for lots of healing. Though this becomes even more of a problem with a group that does in fact invest in a lot of healing making it extremely difficult to challenge them without putting a lot of effort into it such as monsters with special powers or special terrain.
Next is the combat's becoming long and tedious. Well there are a lot of suggestions on this part but in my opinion they shouldn't get to that point in the first place. While I still had time to play my group loved playing in the heroic tier mainly cause they liked making new chars. Anyhow we never really saw much slow down until the later half of the heroic tier which stems from the problem I've pointed out.
But more to the point is that players often burn through their encounter powers quickly and even maybe a daily or two taking down the first few monsters at the start of the encounter. Then they are left with nothing but their at-wills for the rest of the encounter which is where the tedium comes in.
Sure it has been mentioned that some crazy OPed strikers can do insane damage in one hit and even heavy damage for non-OP strikers. But the question is are you gonna base the whole game around a single role? It seems some people think it should be. As in some of the threads on speeding up combat people ask the party make up and then afterwards tell the person that 1-2 players should change their class to strikers to help dish out the damage. Which I think is the wrong approach since it's basically telling people they picked the "wrong" class to play. Even those who don't say change classes often tell them they need to max out their characters on damage increasing feats.
Because the characters have fewer HP the strikers do become a bit more of the glass cannons they were meant to be I think. And healers do have a lot more important role that seems to stay prevalent and doesn't diminish as quickly as under the normal HP gains. And it also further increases the importance of the defenders role which also tends to decrease over time with the original HP gains.
Since my group never implemented this as they saw no need since we stayed in the Heroic tier and they constantly made new chars since their big on that 
. They kinda have a bit of the 3.x mind set still where higher tiers were just overpowering and unbalanced so they haven't wanted to try them.
I can only tell you what my friends group thought of it. He says they like it a lot as combat maintains a much more dangerous feel it did in Heroic. Most of the Low CON or Low HP gain class like their Wizard take toughness feat cause those extra 5 HP per tier are well worth it. They actually buy the Vigor Potions which heal 25 HP since it's over their 1/4 value, though they still limit their use since they do cost gold. They also more interested in things that lower damage like resistance stuff then before. Oddly enough though he said it was because healing was a lot more valuable since they didn't have the big HP values and thus big HSV.
Obviously I'm going to be slightly bias as it was my idea. But I think out of all the HP modification ideas I've seen in the forums this is the best because it scales perfectly across all levels. Unlike simply cutting off 1/2 or 1/3 of HP total which unfairly hinder high CON characters more and make lower levels highly unbalanced. Also it doesn't require the need to modify damage as others have done which is extremely difficult given the vast number of powers and scalablity problems.
I have moved this thread based on a VCL request. 
Hey Pyromancer2k,
Wow...Just...wow. That was a lot of info my friend, heh, heh! Thanks for the feedback.
We tried something new this past weekend for hit points, and it seemed to speed things up a bit. I went with the option of lowering hit points at the paragon tier for monsters by two levels and increasing the damage by 1 point. 1 point may not seem like a lot, but that is +1 point of damage to every single attack the monster has (except fixed/ongoing damage, that remained the same).
Things went' fairly smoothly. Combats seemed a bit faster. I also kicked up the characters weapons a bit so they hit more often (made a +2 weapon +3 and a +1 weapon +2). Also plan on kicking those up a bit more as well. Seemed to work very well mechanically. Very smooth.
For heroic tier, I'll be doing -10 hit points, +1 damage. For epic it'll be -3 levels of hit points and +2 to all damage (and that's for when I use this rule, I'm not going to bind myself to using it "period" and I can even mix and match it with the RAW if I wanted).
Again, this method is based on the RAW (for every two levels you change the creatures level, adjust the damage by 1...only I went down with the hit points and up with the damage to keep the monsters level the same).
Also, I'm only applying this to Standards and Elites. I have an alternate Hit Point method already for solos based on the "new" solo design rules. Minions are (obviously) unaffected by this as well.
For heroic tier, I'll be doing -10 hit points, +1 damage. For epic it'll be -3 levels of hit points and +2 to all damage (and that's for when I use this rule, I'm not going to bind myself to using it "period" and I can even mix and match it with the RAW if I wanted).
I'm still working on a "machine assessment", could you summarise what you are now doing?
I'm nearly there . . . basically, I can now simulate very basic "dumb" combats and run them 1000s of times to get a measure of what tweaking defenses, attack bonuses and damage does - in terms of average number of rounds of combat, and average amount of damage done to the PC before the monster keels over. The code handles criticals, best power choice and a few other cool things, though stops a long long way from anything "tactical". I think it will be a valid measure of whether changes to an individual monster have made it stronger or weaker as a threat, but won't be able to compare between monsters with different powers.
One thing that has already popped out, and was quite a surprise, is how swingy level 1 combats still are . . . you have to run around 100,000 combats to get solid estimates of averages.
Anyway, let me know what you are doing in heroic tier, and I'll plug the numbers in to a few example monsters to see what has happened to them statistically.
I blogged about the combat stats script, let me know if you want me to try some monsters out in Heroic tier with your proposed changes . . .