Alternate Starting Ability Scores - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Alternate Starting Ability Scores

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
drurywalker
Jul 30, 2008 15:28:10 I like the way the new PHB gives a DM options in how he wants his PC's to generate ability scores and I especially like the points value system. However, I like my PCs more powerful than the PHB allows with their systems (and dice are too random for me to keep saying "re-roll that score" over and over until something fits) so I have generated my own system.

Players' starting scores are 16 16 13 13 10 8, they may alter any score in either direction by up to three points so long as the sum of all six scores remains equal (namely if you add X somewhere you have to subtract a total of X from other places), and no score may go above 18 or below 8 (before racial modifiers).

This allows me to throw more powerful monsters/challenges at my PCs, which gives them more XP therefore speeding up the game, which is favorable to me because we don't meet incredibly frequently and when we do meet it is not for terribly long. I have been letting my new group use this system and so far it has turned out pretty well with nobody being too over/underpowered for the type of game I run.

I was looking for advice, critiques, comments, etc. on this system so that I may look to possibly improve on it for my next adventure. Thank you all in advance.
#2
Reyemile
Jul 30, 2008 16:06:59 As near as I can tell, this system lets you start with an 18 and a 17; if you do so, you immediately have 28 points of point-buy, notwithstanding your other stats. Also, this system allows you to get two 8s if you want; stat dumping for min-maxing is something the new system was designed to avoid.

Also, Paragraphs are you friend, man. You're seriously lucky I even bothered to respond to that illegible block of text.
#3
drurywalker
Jul 30, 2008 20:00:37
stat dumping for min-maxing is something the new system was designed to avoid.

Also, Paragraphs are you friend, man. You're seriously lucky I even bothered to respond to that illegible block of text.

1) If you had actually managed to read and understand my post I specifically said that I want my PCs to be more powerful statwise than the PHB lays out. That kinda makes your post useless to me.

2) Lucky? Are you seriously being that arrogant? I mean you could have put in a gentle suggestion about breaking it up into multiple paragraphs but that was way out of line especially considering the fact that you clearly did not proof-read your own post.

Paragraphs are you friend, man.

That should speak for itself.
#4
Vicerious
Jul 30, 2008 22:04:01 I think if you want your players to have better stats, a simpler solution might be to just give them more points with the point-buy system. In the system presented in the PHB, the player is given 22 points to play with. You could, instead, give the players 28 points for more power. If that's not enough, you could always be even more generous.

One of the reasons point-buy is usually used instead of a point-for-point system like the one you presented is that in point-buy higher scores are worth more. In 4e, most characters only really need two or three good scores to be really effective, so being able to min-max and get several 18s is a lot more powerful than it was in 3e.
#5
Reyemile
Jul 30, 2008 22:29:51
1) If you had actually managed to read and understand my post I specifically said that I want my PCs to be more powerful statwise than the PHB lays out. That kinda makes your post useless to me.

Sorry, I wasn't clear; 16 16 13 13 10 10 is a smidge above normal, 26 points. Compare this to the 33 points your 18 17 13 12 10 8 will have. Flat costs really skew the balance towards single or double ability characters, and punish people trying to shore up defenses or build MAD characters like some Paladin builds. If you want them to have extra points, just give them 26-28 and be done with it.
#6
grod_the_giant
Jul 30, 2008 22:35:47 use, say, a 32 point buy, rather then the default 28 (?). Ignore the pre-existing tables.
#7
lordomegacrovax
Jul 30, 2008 23:00:59 I found I like 24 Point Buy with starting scores of 10, 11-14 = 1pt, 15-17 = 2pts and 18 = 3 pts.

Gives you a fairly solid setup, above average per PHB, without being to powerful, can easily set up 20's or couple 18's after racials..
#8
m4kitsu
Jul 30, 2008 23:33:04 Drurywalker, have you already tried a game using 4e standard point-buy/array?

If not; do so first, before you begin houseruling. I found with my group that the provided arrays are perfectly adequate for the game. The characters do not need to be "high powered" just to feel like something more than worthless as was the case with 3.X.

Your system is not perfect, and chances are will result in horribly min-maxed characters -something 4e strives to avoid (and generally succeeds at). However, I have seen worse systems in-play, and should you decide to use your own system with acknowledgment of its potential for abuse, let us know how it goes.
#9
wrecan
Jul 31, 2008 9:10:35 [highlight]Since this thread is asking for comments on a proposed house rule, it belongs in the House Rules forum and I will ask for it to be transferred there

-wrecan, your friendly neighborhood forum lead[/highlight]

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 drurywalker Jul 30, 2008 15:28:10	I like the way the new PHB gives a DM options in how he wants his PC's to generate ability scores and I especially like the points value system. However, I like my PCs more powerful than the PHB allows with their systems (and dice are too random for me to keep saying "re-roll that score" over and over until something fits) so I have generated my own system. Players' starting scores are 16 16 13 13 10 8, they may alter any score in either direction by up to three points so long as the sum of all six scores remains equal (namely if you add X somewhere you have to subtract a total of X from other places), and no score may go above 18 or below 8 (before racial modifiers). This allows me to throw more powerful monsters/challenges at my PCs, which gives them more XP therefore speeding up the game, which is favorable to me because we don't meet incredibly frequently and when we do meet it is not for terribly long. I have been letting my new group use this system and so far it has turned out pretty well with nobody being too over/underpowered for the type of game I run. I was looking for advice, critiques, comments, etc. on this system so that I may look to possibly improve on it for my next adventure. Thank you all in advance.
#2 Reyemile Jul 30, 2008 16:06:59	As near as I can tell, this system lets you start with an 18 and a 17; if you do so, you immediately have 28 points of point-buy, notwithstanding your other stats. Also, this system allows you to get two 8s if you want; stat dumping for min-maxing is something the new system was designed to avoid. Also, Paragraphs are you friend, man. You're seriously lucky I even bothered to respond to that illegible block of text.
#3 drurywalker Jul 30, 2008 20:00:37	stat dumping for min-maxing is something the new system was designed to avoid. Also, Paragraphs are you friend, man. You're seriously lucky I even bothered to respond to that illegible block of text. 1) If you had actually managed to read and understand my post I specifically said that I want my PCs to be more powerful statwise than the PHB lays out. That kinda makes your post useless to me. 2) Lucky? Are you seriously being that arrogant? I mean you could have put in a gentle suggestion about breaking it up into multiple paragraphs but that was way out of line especially considering the fact that you clearly did not proof-read your own post. Paragraphs are you friend, man. That should speak for itself.
#4 Vicerious Jul 30, 2008 22:04:01	I think if you want your players to have better stats, a simpler solution might be to just give them more points with the point-buy system. In the system presented in the PHB, the player is given 22 points to play with. You could, instead, give the players 28 points for more power. If that's not enough, you could always be even more generous. One of the reasons point-buy is usually used instead of a point-for-point system like the one you presented is that in point-buy higher scores are worth more. In 4e, most characters only really need two or three good scores to be really effective, so being able to min-max and get several 18s is a lot more powerful than it was in 3e.
#5 Reyemile Jul 30, 2008 22:29:51	1) If you had actually managed to read and understand my post I specifically said that I want my PCs to be more powerful statwise than the PHB lays out. That kinda makes your post useless to me. Sorry, I wasn't clear; 16 16 13 13 10 10 is a smidge above normal, 26 points. Compare this to the 33 points your 18 17 13 12 10 8 will have. Flat costs really skew the balance towards single or double ability characters, and punish people trying to shore up defenses or build MAD characters like some Paladin builds. If you want them to have extra points, just give them 26-28 and be done with it.
#6 grod_the_giant Jul 30, 2008 22:35:47	use, say, a 32 point buy, rather then the default 28 (?). Ignore the pre-existing tables.
#7 lordomegacrovax Jul 30, 2008 23:00:59	I found I like 24 Point Buy with starting scores of 10, 11-14 = 1pt, 15-17 = 2pts and 18 = 3 pts. Gives you a fairly solid setup, above average per PHB, without being to powerful, can easily set up 20's or couple 18's after racials..
#8 m4kitsu Jul 30, 2008 23:33:04	Drurywalker, have you already tried a game using 4e standard point-buy/array? If not; do so first, before you begin houseruling. I found with my group that the provided arrays are perfectly adequate for the game. The characters do not need to be "high powered" just to feel like something more than worthless as was the case with 3.X. Your system is not perfect, and chances are will result in horribly min-maxed characters -something 4e strives to avoid (and generally succeeds at). However, I have seen worse systems in-play, and should you decide to use your own system with acknowledgment of its potential for abuse, let us know how it goes.
#9 wrecan Jul 31, 2008 9:10:35	[highlight]Since this thread is asking for comments on a proposed house rule, it belongs in the House Rules forum and I will ask for it to be transferred there -wrecan, your friendly neighborhood forum lead[/highlight]