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Alternative healing system?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kiyuya
Dec 24, 2009 8:50:15 This got pretty long, I apologise, but I'm horrible with collecting my thoughts in few words.

I have a setting I'd like to convert into 4E. It's been proceeding nicely so far, with lots of things such as healing surges fitting much better into the world's fluff than previous healing systems have, not to mention those I devised myself to try to bring my setting to life back in 3.5.

However, I find myself at a loss. In my setting, there are only two races (D&D lingo wise there's more races since I have different cultures with different bonuses, but fluff-wise there's only humans and trolls) and the way they regenerate are vastly different. Humans are creatures that live due to the existence of their souls, and thus when they're injured they will find their soul working hard to recreate lost tissue in a very rapid manner. Healing surges seemed like a perfect way of keeping track of wounds and healing for my humans, keeping the HP not awfully abstract but rather literal.

Trolls on the other hand have no souls and thus regenerate much like we humans do in the real world. The fast healing of an instant healing surge just doesn't work, fluff-wise, even when magic comes into play. The only way to heal a troll quickly is to speed up its natural cell regrowth with magic, which can be done via troll-specific potions or spells.

Has anyone ever heard of or even used an alternate healing system for 4E which would fit with this? It seems that no matter what I devise for my poor trolls, they're lacking so extremely from a gameplay perspective. I have at least one player who would absolutely love to play a troll (he knows my setting well albeit not in game form), but I'd feel silly to pretty much hand him a race with which he would excel in melee with but essentially wouldn't allow him to regain lost hit points without spending days of in-game time out of combat.

The alternatives I've drawn up so far are allowing trolls to regenerate to maximum HP after an extended rest (certainly pushes on the canon of my setting here, but I have a feeling I'll have to do so regardless somehow), but perhaps not allowing humans the same benefit - rather they heal up using their built-in healing surges just to show how different they are albeit I'm not sure such a nerf is appropriate fluff-wise either.

Trolls could also perhaps use their healing potions to spend healing surges during any time encounter powers are regained. Much faster healing gameplay-wise, not the absolutely most terrible nerf from RAW races, and it would keep trolls from regaining lost limbs mid-battle the way a human can, though of course it would still be going against my setting's canon.

Or should I perhaps just allow trolls to function the same way as humans for gameplay's sake and explain that in-character, the healing is done differently? This would really hamper how much I'd like them to be different, but I feel I'm running out of viable options that will actually keep the trolls an interesting race to play in an adventuring band. To not have the trolls playable feels like a disservice to my setting, and to my friend who would love to play one so bad as well (he's got his character concept all written up already and everything; such a good little player, that boy ;) ).
#2
Stuntman
Dec 25, 2009 13:55:12 Have you looked at the Troll in the MM? There it describes how it regenerates. Would that not work for you?
#3
bone_naga
Dec 26, 2009 12:36:30 Maybe just refluffing would work. Keep in mind that physical damage comprises very little of what HP actually represent, and "healing" isn't necessarily strictly healing. Think of the warlord, who rather than patch up wounds, offers words of encouragement, pushing the PC to keep fighting the good fight despite fatigue and injury. Nothing about healing surges or healing in general in D&D is meant to signify actual healing of physical wounds.
#4
Svempa
Dec 28, 2009 17:57:21 Hm, I think you have to explain more carefully why the system with healing surges doesn't work for both the races in your setting. I mean, it has to be an outlandish difference that can't be represented by the surges- after all, they could represent different things- cellular regeneration for the trolls, regeneration mostly through willpower (the soul?) for the humans...

If the thing is that the trolls because their lack of a soul can't be healed by a divine power-source (kinda makes sense) or things that rely on inspiration or willpower that originates from a soul (like inspiring word for example) maybe something like this...
Perhaps a troll automatically regenerates half of its healing surge value every round, but it can't spend healing surges in any way whatsoever, and certain types of damage halts the regeneration for one round. Perhaps troll healing potions heal more hp than "human" healing potions, but using more than one per day is (potentially?) lethal to them because of a buildup of toxins.
So basically trolls don't have healing surges at all.
#5
bikermattus
Dec 30, 2009 1:54:42 There are a couple of ideas to think about, all dealing with "regeneration".

The first is to have Trolls gain a number of HP equal to their number of Surges every time they take a short rest, with increased activity both straining their ability to recover, and accelerating the rate at which energy flows through the body, resulting in the same rate. Such a small ammount that never ends would be a good way to contrast with Human surges. One could even spread it across the time, giving it an automatic HP every certain number of rounds.

Another way borrows from AD&D, where trolls recover HP soon, but not immediately after taking injury. In this method, a troll would wait 1 to 3 rounds after recieving injury, then gaining 1 HP per round for a number of rounds equal to their number of surge value, and gain another point for each round they are bloodied, for the same number of rounds. after this point the body becomes tired from the effort, and only recovers 1 HP per minute, with the same applying to the HPs regained while bloodied. After a short rest while completely healed, the ability resets.

In either case, certain types of damage (typically acid and fire) can't be healed without an extended rest, and even then only the number of healing surges can be healed per extended rest.

An option, should these options prove to be too weak at higher levels, one could add half or all of the troll's levels to said values.
#6
ian.thomson
Jan 02, 2010 18:10:45 I guess perhaps breaking up the troll healing surges by reducing the number of HP healed by a surge to 1/10 total HP, but doubling the number of healing surges. You would need something to balance this, maybe giving them 2.5 times the number of healing surges instead.
#7
ozzymandias
Jan 13, 2010 4:23:32 If hit points represent pure physical toughness and tissue damage then the healing system of 4th Ed presents a logical problem when combined with your approach: humans have regeneration and trolls don't.

As a human PC I take damage. This is described as being cut by a sword or bruised by a hammer. It's physical and doesn't take into account exhaustion or weariness (which are largely mental concerns). Thus when I use my second wind ability, I'm rapidly healing the wound, which is the same thing as regeneration.

If trolls don't have healing surges (for any reason) then they can't regenerate at the same rate as humans. This would lead to them being a less effective race in combat and thus less likely to engage in battles of any kind (but I might be taking it too far with this).

I re-read the OP and as far as I can tell you describe exactly this situation: humans can heal rapidly (regenerate) and trolls cannot. Yet using hit points and healing surges to mechanically represent this puts strain on the viability of trolls as a PC race. You could give humans an additional power (which could be augmented by feats) that healed them some without spending healing surges. This could represent their regenerative power. Or you could give them regeneration flat-out, but then you'd have to give trolls something just as good for balance.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kiyuya Dec 24, 2009 8:50:15	This got pretty long, I apologise, but I'm horrible with collecting my thoughts in few words. I have a setting I'd like to convert into 4E. It's been proceeding nicely so far, with lots of things such as healing surges fitting much better into the world's fluff than previous healing systems have, not to mention those I devised myself to try to bring my setting to life back in 3.5. However, I find myself at a loss. In my setting, there are only two races (D&D lingo wise there's more races since I have different cultures with different bonuses, but fluff-wise there's only humans and trolls) and the way they regenerate are vastly different. Humans are creatures that live due to the existence of their souls, and thus when they're injured they will find their soul working hard to recreate lost tissue in a very rapid manner. Healing surges seemed like a perfect way of keeping track of wounds and healing for my humans, keeping the HP not awfully abstract but rather literal. Trolls on the other hand have no souls and thus regenerate much like we humans do in the real world. The fast healing of an instant healing surge just doesn't work, fluff-wise, even when magic comes into play. The only way to heal a troll quickly is to speed up its natural cell regrowth with magic, which can be done via troll-specific potions or spells. Has anyone ever heard of or even used an alternate healing system for 4E which would fit with this? It seems that no matter what I devise for my poor trolls, they're lacking so extremely from a gameplay perspective. I have at least one player who would absolutely love to play a troll (he knows my setting well albeit not in game form), but I'd feel silly to pretty much hand him a race with which he would excel in melee with but essentially wouldn't allow him to regain lost hit points without spending days of in-game time out of combat. The alternatives I've drawn up so far are allowing trolls to regenerate to maximum HP after an extended rest (certainly pushes on the canon of my setting here, but I have a feeling I'll have to do so regardless somehow), but perhaps not allowing humans the same benefit - rather they heal up using their built-in healing surges just to show how different they are albeit I'm not sure such a nerf is appropriate fluff-wise either. Trolls could also perhaps use their healing potions to spend healing surges during any time encounter powers are regained. Much faster healing gameplay-wise, not the absolutely most terrible nerf from RAW races, and it would keep trolls from regaining lost limbs mid-battle the way a human can, though of course it would still be going against my setting's canon. Or should I perhaps just allow trolls to function the same way as humans for gameplay's sake and explain that in-character, the healing is done differently? This would really hamper how much I'd like them to be different, but I feel I'm running out of viable options that will actually keep the trolls an interesting race to play in an adventuring band. To not have the trolls playable feels like a disservice to my setting, and to my friend who would love to play one so bad as well (he's got his character concept all written up already and everything; such a good little player, that boy ;) ).
#2 Stuntman Dec 25, 2009 13:55:12	Have you looked at the Troll in the MM? There it describes how it regenerates. Would that not work for you?
#3 bone_naga Dec 26, 2009 12:36:30	Maybe just refluffing would work. Keep in mind that physical damage comprises very little of what HP actually represent, and "healing" isn't necessarily strictly healing. Think of the warlord, who rather than patch up wounds, offers words of encouragement, pushing the PC to keep fighting the good fight despite fatigue and injury. Nothing about healing surges or healing in general in D&D is meant to signify actual healing of physical wounds.
#4 Svempa Dec 28, 2009 17:57:21	Hm, I think you have to explain more carefully why the system with healing surges doesn't work for both the races in your setting. I mean, it has to be an outlandish difference that can't be represented by the surges- after all, they could represent different things- cellular regeneration for the trolls, regeneration mostly through willpower (the soul?) for the humans... If the thing is that the trolls because their lack of a soul can't be healed by a divine power-source (kinda makes sense) or things that rely on inspiration or willpower that originates from a soul (like inspiring word for example) maybe something like this... Perhaps a troll automatically regenerates half of its healing surge value every round, but it can't spend healing surges in any way whatsoever, and certain types of damage halts the regeneration for one round. Perhaps troll healing potions heal more hp than "human" healing potions, but using more than one per day is (potentially?) lethal to them because of a buildup of toxins. So basically trolls don't have healing surges at all.
#5 bikermattus Dec 30, 2009 1:54:42	There are a couple of ideas to think about, all dealing with "regeneration". The first is to have Trolls gain a number of HP equal to their number of Surges every time they take a short rest, with increased activity both straining their ability to recover, and accelerating the rate at which energy flows through the body, resulting in the same rate. Such a small ammount that never ends would be a good way to contrast with Human surges. One could even spread it across the time, giving it an automatic HP every certain number of rounds. Another way borrows from AD&D, where trolls recover HP soon, but not immediately after taking injury. In this method, a troll would wait 1 to 3 rounds after recieving injury, then gaining 1 HP per round for a number of rounds equal to their number of surge value, and gain another point for each round they are bloodied, for the same number of rounds. after this point the body becomes tired from the effort, and only recovers 1 HP per minute, with the same applying to the HPs regained while bloodied. After a short rest while completely healed, the ability resets. In either case, certain types of damage (typically acid and fire) can't be healed without an extended rest, and even then only the number of healing surges can be healed per extended rest. An option, should these options prove to be too weak at higher levels, one could add half or all of the troll's levels to said values.
#6 ian.thomson Jan 02, 2010 18:10:45	I guess perhaps breaking up the troll healing surges by reducing the number of HP healed by a surge to 1/10 total HP, but doubling the number of healing surges. You would need something to balance this, maybe giving them 2.5 times the number of healing surges instead.
#7 ozzymandias Jan 13, 2010 4:23:32	If hit points represent pure physical toughness and tissue damage then the healing system of 4th Ed presents a logical problem when combined with your approach: humans have regeneration and trolls don't. As a human PC I take damage. This is described as being cut by a sword or bruised by a hammer. It's physical and doesn't take into account exhaustion or weariness (which are largely mental concerns). Thus when I use my second wind ability, I'm rapidly healing the wound, which is the same thing as regeneration. If trolls don't have healing surges (for any reason) then they can't regenerate at the same rate as humans. This would lead to them being a less effective race in combat and thus less likely to engage in battles of any kind (but I might be taking it too far with this). I re-read the OP and as far as I can tell you describe exactly this situation: humans can heal rapidly (regenerate) and trolls cannot. Yet using hit points and healing surges to mechanically represent this puts strain on the viability of trolls as a PC race. You could give humans an additional power (which could be augmented by feats) that healed them some without spending healing surges. This could represent their regenerative power. Or you could give them regeneration flat-out, but then you'd have to give trolls something just as good for balance.