Alternative to XP - The Cent System

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

UrielApeiron

Nov 07, 2008 15:54:35
i built this for 3.5, but it should work well enough with 4.

Instead of tracking tens, hundreds, thousands and so on of XP, just track a percentage of needed experience. 100 Cents is a level. If you have 50 Cents, you are half way to the next level. 100 is a nice round number and we are familiar with working with percentages. The number of cents needed to level never changes, so there is no need to reference a chart. What's more is that the players and DM can use cents as, ahem, currency for metamechanics.

You also won't have to consult charts to determine how many of what type of XP rewards are needed to level. A run of the mill random fight in the forest is 10 Cents. 10 such battles would be a level. If that is too fast, use a smaller number.

MetaMX Ideas:

Reactive Roll - Allow players to spend cents to fudge a life saving die roll. The cost would be whatever they wish the die to roll. This could be very expensive, and it should be. If the wizard really wants to crit on that fireball roll, he can dump 20 cents to "roll" a 20.

Proactive Bonus - You know this Bluff roll is a matter of life and death, so you spend 5 cents to gain a circumstance bonus to your roll. This is less expensive, but the expenditure might be for naught. If you rolled high, the expense was (sort of) a waste. It would be less expensive than the reactive roll.

The GM could limit what sort of rolls can use cents.

Improve Skills - Spend cents equal to current skill rating to advance that skill one point. (EDIT) That might be too cheap. Maybe it should be Current Ranks * 2, i dunno, you figure it out. i like the idea of showing that the character is learning through practice or study, and of letting characters go beyond the straight jacket of classes.

If you like the idea, use it. If you don't... don't.
#2

lokathor

Nov 07, 2008 16:53:23
How do players who get behind catch up?
#3

samyueru

Nov 07, 2008 17:35:44
How do players who get behind catch up?

It depends on how you would let them catch up normally I would guess. For example, if in a game that doesn't use this method, you doubled their XP, you just give them 40 XP per encounter until they catch up. Simple really.
#4

Novacat

Nov 07, 2008 18:06:09
It's an unnecessary change, and I think that it will complicate things more than simplify them.
#5

exposed_wires

Nov 07, 2008 18:30:10
It didn't complicate 3.5 so much because 3.5 worked off of a CR system. 4e works off an XP budget. Your method, while simplifying things for the players, is just a ton of unnecessary conversions back and forth from XP to penny over and over for you as DM.
#6

legdiwena

Nov 07, 2008 18:32:20
How did you handle crafting in 3.5?
#7

crazysamaritan

Nov 07, 2008 18:53:24
It's an unnecessary change, and I think that it will complicate things more than simplify them.

Debatable... I suggest that the OP do some research in the Savage Lands System. The Bennie system they use (you can use to increase your XP or use 'action points', to use a D&D term, during combat) is similar to what the OP is proposing, and comparing their use might be of benefit to the OP.

I, myself, have considered merging milestones/action points, and using poker chips to utilize the same system in my game. At the moment, I don't think I or my players know the basic system well enough to change it, but this thread has encouraged me to at least make sure my players use chips to physically represent the action points, thus encouraging them to use them.
#8

UrielApeiron

Nov 07, 2008 20:10:17
i'll give Savage Lands a look.

Thanks for the replies!

How did you handle crafting in 3.5?

It never came up, but it would have been easy as the XP needed for a given level was easily known: Current Level * 1000. So a cent was Current Level * 10 XP. But again, "it would cost you... 10, no... 15 cents". SWAG it! It's a game, not a CPA certification test.

4E buggered that, but it doesn't seem to be an issue anymore. *shrugs*

It's an unnecessary change, and I think that it will complicate things more than simplify them.

What specifically would be more complicated?

It didn't complicate 3.5 so much because 3.5 worked off of a CR system. 4e works off an XP budget. Your method, while simplifying things for the players, is just a ton of unnecessary conversions back and forth from XP to penny over and over for you as DM.

Not at all. i could use the budgeting thing to set the difficulty of the encounter, and give as many cents as i feel is appropriate. If/when i run a campaign, XP (or cents) wouldn't be a matter of 'critters slain' (that's Diablo), but of obstacles conquered, missions accomplished and role playing done well, etc. i also gave cents for people bringing snacks to share. Anything that contributes to the experience at the table.

As for getting people caught up, i'd just slip that player a few extra cents per encounter. That would work well enough even if a character was a level behind, the encounters would supposedly be harder for that character so let the reward reflect that. Or just let them be behind and catch up by role playing better.

If i have time tomorrow, and anyone is interested, i'll post a bit on how i awarded cents.
#9

zombiegleemax

Nov 08, 2008 0:27:09
How do players who get behind catch up?

Well, that could be handled by basic percentage multiplication.

One level 3 guy working with 4 level 5 guys, his 'job' is 2/5ths harder, or about 40%, so his XP is increased by 40%... thus if the 'party' gets 30 cents, the level 3 guy gets 42 cents.

About 2.5 fights catches him up.

[Note- I am drunk at this moment... my math might be off.]
#10

vaelan

Nov 08, 2008 20:55:31
Not at all. i could use the budgeting thing to set the difficulty of the encounter, and give as many cents as i feel is appropriate. If/when i run a campaign, XP (or cents) wouldn't be a matter of 'critters slain' (that's Diablo), but of obstacles conquered, missions accomplished and role playing done well, etc. i also gave cents for people bringing snacks to share. Anything that contributes to the experience at the table.

In other words, this isn't a substitution for the normal XP system so much as a new system that serves entirely different goals. It sacrifices the guidance that the original system provides to make it easier for you to use your own discretion.

Then it has some alternate uses for XP tacked on that are messy and would be better served by a different mechanic so that they are disassociated from levels.
#11

ekko

Nov 09, 2008 15:55:09
Well, that could be handled by basic percentage multiplication.

One level 3 guy working with 4 level 5 guys, his 'job' is 2/5ths harder, or about 40%, so his XP is increased by 40%... thus if the 'party' gets 30 cents, the level 3 guy gets 42 cents.

About 2.5 fights catches him up.

[Note- I am drunk at this moment... my math might be off.]

I get his job being 2/3 harder. He's expected to perform at a level 5 ability, when he only has a level 3. 5/3 = 1 2/3.

Thus, the party gets 30 cents, he gets 50. That should have him caught up in 10 encounters (math below). Methinks this doesn't work as well. The best way to fix this is to implement staggering in cent value (ie. 1 level 5 cent = 2 level 4 cents, or something), but then you're better off using 4e's xp system. So, when someone burns cents to use a fun ability, the system stops working well, and they're screwed, unless everyone uses an equal amount of them (and then, 4e's action point system makes more sense).

The system just doesn't work.

(let's assume it is 30c per encounter. Party has 500c, level 3 has 300. 1 fight: 530/350, 2 - 560/400, 3 - 590/450, 4 - 620/500, 5 - 650/550, 6 - 680/600, 7 - 710/650, 8 - 740/700, 9 - 770/750, 10 - 800/800.)

EDIT: What if you had just gained a level, and then wanted to auto-crit with a new power you just got. That puts you back 20 (or 18-19, depending) and then you don't have the power anymore. So you don't spend the points to cast the power, so you remain at the next level, so you try to auto-crit, but then...

If your system can cause a temporal paradox with one of it's integral components, something is clearly wrong.
#12

lokathor

Nov 09, 2008 16:31:54
It depends on how you would let them catch up normally I would guess. For example, if in a game that doesn't use this method, you doubled their XP, you just give them 40 XP per encounter until they catch up. Simple really.

In our group, we just hand out levels to the entire group and don't track EXP other than for individual encounter building.
#13

RyndarLocke

Nov 09, 2008 18:41:35
i built this for 3.5, but it should work well enough with 4.

Instead of tracking tens, hundreds, thousands and so on of XP, just track a percentage of needed experience. 100 Cents is a level. If you have 50 Cents, you are half way to the next level. 100 is a nice round number and we are familiar with working with percentages. The number of cents needed to level never changes, so there is no need to reference a chart. What's more is that the players and DM can use cents as, ahem, currency for metamechanics.

You also won't have to consult charts to determine how many of what type of XP rewards are needed to level. A run of the mill random fight in the forest is 10 Cents. 10 such battles would be a level. If that is too fast, use a smaller number.

MetaMX Ideas:

Reactive Roll - Allow players to spend cents to fudge a life saving die roll. The cost would be whatever they wish the die to roll. This could be very expensive, and it should be. If the wizard really wants to crit on that fireball roll, he can dump 20 cents to "roll" a 20.

Proactive Bonus - You know this Bluff roll is a matter of life and death, so you spend 5 cents to gain a circumstance bonus to your roll. This is less expensive, but the expenditure might be for naught. If you rolled high, the expense was (sort of) a waste. It would be less expensive than the reactive roll.

The GM could limit what sort of rolls can use cents.

Improve Skills - Spend cents equal to current skill rating to advance that skill one point. (EDIT) That might be too cheap. Maybe it should be Current Ranks * 2, i dunno, you figure it out. i like the idea of showing that the character is learning through practice or study, and of letting characters go beyond the straight jacket of classes.

If you like the idea, use it. If you don't... don't.

Down the stairs!